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Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars



Plaster Town Cop

Edit: Whoops, SALR added this to the wrong thread.

There's no way to prioritize energy sources, right? I want solar->battery->steam, but it goes solar->steam->no battery because steam is online. In the end I just went with 12 GW of solar and a gigantic battery base that trivially lasts all night.

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VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.


Harik posted:

Edit: Whoops, SALR added this to the wrong thread.

There's no way to prioritize energy sources, right? I want solar->battery->steam, but it goes solar->steam->no battery because steam is online. In the end I just went with 12 GW of solar and a gigantic battery base that trivially lasts all night.
No, the only thing you can currently do is build a crude battery level measurement which turns on the steam a certain amount of charge is exhausted.

Optiquest
Feb 8, 2004



Retro42 posted:

Honestly not trying to self-promote here. But figured I would share.

My Mod

Really nothing fancy, just adds barrels for all the vanilla oil products. Absurdly useful for logistic networks if put together right. If any intrepid goon wants to build on this go right ahead.

This is pretty neat. You should add water barrels.

Drone_Fragger
May 9, 2007

VOTE
FOR
PEDRO


tonberrytoby posted:

No, the only thing you can currently do is build a crude battery level measurement which turns on the steam a certain amount of charge is exhausted.

Indeed, I've seen one in action and it's pretty neat. involves a combination of a single accumulator running a single inserter removing items from a logistics chest tied to the inserts for the steam power.

Xel
Jan 21, 2003



Gotdammy posted:

I don't really have a good picture of a complete setup but I activated my crappy editing skills to make a thing:



There are variants you can do, but the idea is to have one central belt system with only one resource per belt, and then split off new factories to one side. That way if you need more of a resource, you just pop another fab on the right branch, extend a few belts, and you get more stuff.

Then you can add boxes at the end to stockpile, and then later replace them with provider chests if you give up and start using bots.

My twenty lane variant of this is not very practical but it sure looks nice

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

What on earth are you using that many engines for? I have two engine factories running and have shitloads more than I need. Do you use them to just crap out cars everywhere? I suppose it would be convenient to have a stack of 30+ cars on hand.

E: Also on a personal note I hate seeing production belts full of unspent product. If it's on the belt and not in a factory, it's wasting my time! I'm going to be no fun at all to play with in multiplayer.

Evilreaver fucked around with this message at May 15, 2014 around 22:21

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

Matching production rate exactly to consumption rate is prohibitively hard or even impossible in all but the simplest scenarios (the ratios and their least common denominators become very unwieldy real quick). A single bottleneck piles materials up on every stage before it, and there's little you can do about it other than dealing with it. Or you could run your chain at less than full throughput capacity but that's silly.

I'm also pretty sure that some of the simpler assembling recipes (iron gear wheels come to mind) are actually bottlenecked on the inserters, assuming that you use regular ones. At least it seemed like I got more production out when I switched to a fast inserter, but it could also be because that taxed the slightly underdimensioned iron plate input more efficiently.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at May 15, 2014 around 22:30

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

Stuff stacking up on the belts? Build more factories to eat it.
Factories eating all your product and turning off? Build more input.

Repeat until you have infinite production

E: Bottlednecked on the inserter? Add more inserters!


You can make a shitload of wire like this. Output was increasing even with L3 speed modules on there. You could probably get 6 insterters in and out if you were crafty, and taking from/sending to chests would be even faster with the stack size boost, but I don't think you can really take advantage of it. 6/6 in/out is probably best. I was out of room there, or I would have.

(Backed up only because this was a completed game, nothing left to build )

E2: The output belt is wonky there in order to get wire on both sides of the belt ASAP with the room I had, since it maxed the one-side throughput of the blue belt, and I needed more. It wasn't too well planned on my part (you can see me pressed up against the battery line).

Evilreaver fucked around with this message at May 15, 2014 around 22:51

Pornographic Memory
Dec 17, 2008


I don't know about gear wheels specifically because I haven't checked, but yes inserters can absolutely be a bottleneck. If you're making wires, for example, they craft so fast in an assembler that a lone yellow inserter will be too slow to keep it in continuous production.

Renaissance Robot
Oct 10, 2010

Bite my furry metal ass


It's especially true for cable because not only do they craft fast, but you get two for every one copper plate. If you don't have at least two extractors for every inserter I don't know what to tell you (other than to make that happen, obviously; also the opposite thing for gears since they take two plates to every one gear)

Unless you're making a lot of express belts, two gear factories should be plenty to keep you supplied, provided you can fully meet their demand for iron (which I've never quite been able to by the way, considering you also need a ton for steel and pipes and belts and research packs and and and and)

Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at May 15, 2014 around 22:49

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

Renaissance Robot posted:

It's especially true for cable because not only do they craft fast, but you get two for every one copper plate. If you don't have at least two extractors for every inserter I don't know what to tell you (other than to make that happen, obviously; also the opposite thing for gears since they take two plates to every one gear)

Unless you're making a lot of express belts, two gear factories should be plenty to keep you supplied, provided you can fully meet their demand for iron (which I've never quite been able to by the way, considering you also need a ton for steel and pipes and belts and research packs and and and and)

Trains, bro.

If you have inserters on both sides of the train unloading, you can get that train out of there and back to the mine faster, which means more iron for the factories, which is more parts for the parts gods. One blue belt with both lanes full of ore can service (I think?) 24 electric furnaces from source, so if you can get a source to back up with ore on, say, four belts (6 cars or so should do it) then you're cookin'.

Pro tip: Multiple engines make a train go faster. Two-headed trains are markedly slower than single-headed trains, so use loops except on tiny train lines. When you get a new line set up, ride it a few times and count seconds until it's full/empty, cutting 5-10 seconds off each stop adds up quick.

Also use wood chests at the mines and steel chests at the unload- the woods fill up quick, but individually have more storage than the train car so they can still fill it up if you have, say, 10 per car (5 per side). Steel chests never fill so your mine might only load 1-2 cars when it could be loading 6.

E2: If you want to please the parts gods, you should be using a lot of red belts, and a ton of blues for your main iron/copper arteries at least.
E3: I did see one guy make this mistake, so just to be safe, (un)load your trains via chests to use that Stack Size research.

Evilreaver fucked around with this message at May 15, 2014 around 23:08

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



I suppose I shouldn't play on games where I set the richness so high. As of yet, I haven't really had reasons to build trains, as I've always been able to get a nearby resource with huge quantities.

I tried playing around with the logistics drones a bit, but they seem like they need some extra research before they really shine. At their base speed and base pickup capacity, they seem unimpressive.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at May 15, 2014 around 23:15

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

It's really the geographical size of the mine that makes the difference. I've been playing with most everything on normal so I'm not positive what Richness does exactly (I'd guess make each node 'deeper' to start?) But if you get lucky and can fit 20-25 mines on one patch, then you can be in good shape for a long time.

I always seem to get screwed on Stone. Just enough for furnaces, then I have to scrape and pinch to get enough for walls. Hurumph.

E: Oh my yes. Normal ore piles are ~2000, Very Rich can get up to 6500+. Dang.

Filthy Monkey posted:

I tried playing around with the logistics drones a bit, but they seem like they need some extra research before they really shine. At their base speed and base pickup capacity, they seem unimpressive.

They're no replacement for belts, but they do have their moments when you need to move singles of things. They work excellently for centralizing and distributing science. Construction bots, though, those are the poo poo.

Evilreaver fucked around with this message at May 15, 2014 around 23:20

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



I think I need to start a game where I pollute more. I've been keeping my operations moderately sized until I get solar energy, accumulators, and efficiency modules. Nothing makes me happier than seeing glowing accumulators powering a -80% energy electric furnace. Biter attacks on my base are usually a super-rare thing, and I don't think I've even seen the tougher biters. Does pollution make them spawn?

I have taken out enemy bases relatively early on too, so long as they don't include the worms. Steel armor and a flamethrower seems to be enough to take down your standard base with biter spawners.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at May 15, 2014 around 23:24

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

Yes, pollution makes them spawn, and it also increases the difficulty of things that spawn ("evolution"). Evolution never goes down, but attack rates can drop almost right to zero if you suddenly go green or take everything offline for some reason, like tearing it all up to rebuild from scratch.

If you want to try a high-pollution game, be ready to fight, because they come at you a LOT harder and more often. I tried relying more on steam power on my latest game, while also trying a more spread out base. I couldn't keep up with constant attacks everywhere, especially since I needed a dozen roboports to cover my base for repairs. It's a good challenge, but kinda frustrating when you're intently working on something and keep getting interrupted by mushroom-cloud-indicators.

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



Appreciate the info. Do attacks only come from nearby bases? If I wipe out anything close, can I pollute my heart out with impunity?

Think I am going to start a game on normal settings right now, instead of jacking up the richness. Might try to get some biter attacks. My normal way of playing felt a little too peaceful.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

They do come from nearby bases, but 'nearby' depends on pollution. They will get their hiking boots on if you black out the sky with smog.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006



Bleak Gremlin

I think you tap m for the map, and then hold either ctrl or alt to show pollution.

Ixjuvin
Aug 8, 2009

if smug was a motorcycle, it just jumped over a fucking canyon

Nap Ghost

It seems like the biters will only start sending waves if their nest is under your pollution cloud. You can locate nests you haven't scanned (or that have spawned since); the chunks of your pollution cloud that are blinking indicate the location of nests. Of course blowing up biter nests increases their evolution factor hugely as well so be careful removing them in the earlier stages of the game.

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



Looks like it is alt.

One thing I definitely need to get better at is matching my factory inputs and outputs. You guys just got me to test gear wheel factories, and I had definitely been building too many compared to my other factories. One gear wheel factory goes pretty far, and is early more than capable of supporting four red science factories, for instance. I was building multiples before.

Do idle factories still consume electricity and pollute, or do they go offline?

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006



Bleak Gremlin

Filthy Monkey posted:

Do idle factories still consume electricity and pollute, or do they go offline?

Offline as far as I can tell. I had a mining complex that filled up all its chests and the pollution dropped to zero.

When I emptied out the chests, pollution exploded.

Colonel J
Jan 3, 2008


Game still needs work, I generated a new map and spawned here:



No way to escape!

Ixjuvin
Aug 8, 2009

if smug was a motorcycle, it just jumped over a fucking canyon

Nap Ghost

Colonel J posted:

Game still needs work, I generated a new map and spawned here:



No way to escape!

On the upside, you are completely safe from enemy attack!

Thompsons
Aug 28, 2008

Ask me about onklunk extraction.

Is there a way to place two rows of pipes right next to each other without them interconnecting?

Joda
Apr 24, 2010

When I'm off, I just like to really let go and have fun, y'know?



Fun Shoe

Thompsons posted:

Is there a way to place two rows of pipes right next to each other without them interconnecting?

If have two exclusively underground systems (as in only consisting of underground pipes and their connectors) I don't think they'd connect.

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011



I loving LOVE LOGISTICS ROBOTS

There's just something about using them in the process of making more logistics robots that makes me all

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



It semes like the desert starts are a little harder, especially if there are bases nearby. The pollution-absorbing trees definitely help contain your early filth.

Having played a few games now, I feel there is kind of a dead zone in the middle of the research tree. Namely, the period between maybe steel, and getting sulfer/plastics/batteries. I can't really safely expand base without causing a lot of pollution, and oil doesn't accomplish a lot until I can make batteries and plastics. Not to mention that a lot of expansion would end up being torn down once the aforementioned techs come in.

A good chunk of the techs aren't useful until you have the others. Solar panels aren't great until you have accumulators, which need batteries. To put that energy to good use it helps to have electric furnaces, which take plastics. Honestly have been just kind of alt-tabbing out while I let my research go at that middle point.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

Filthy Monkey posted:

It semes like the desert starts are a little harder, especially if there are bases nearby. The pollution-absorbing trees definitely help contain your early filth.

Having played a few games now, I feel there is kind of a dead zone in the middle of the research tree. Namely, the period between maybe steel, and getting sulfer/plastics/batteries. I can't really safely expand base without causing a lot of pollution, and oil doesn't accomplish a lot until I can make batteries and plastics. Not to mention that a lot of expansion would end up being torn down once the aforementioned techs come in.

A good chunk of the techs aren't useful until you have the others. Solar panels aren't great until you have accumulators, which need batteries. To put that energy to good use it helps to have electric furnaces, which take plastics. Honestly have been just kind of alt-tabbing out while I let my research go at that middle point.

I get green science, and then build my entire base while I research everything. By the time I can make infinite blue science, I have everything that only takes green. Build build build build!

Filthy Monkey
Jun 25, 2007



I think one thing I would like to see are more resources, and multiple paths to each type of science (except maybe red). Depending on what resources are nearby, you might pick a difference production chain in order to get to that sort of research. Maybe I start by a bunch of nickel, so I mix nickel, copper, and iron to make magnets, which are used in different green science recipe. It would add some variety.

Maybe make some of the resources for high-end stuff really rare, to encourage you to go out and do some exploring. I know that is somewhat the case now, with alien artifacts, but I am thinking more from a noncombat standpoint. Give me a reason to want to use a train to haul something from a few map screens away.

Edit: Should be a nice easy start. Very defensible. Everything is on normal.

The iron vein north of me is pretty rich, but the copper veins aren't. The giant copper vein by the enemy base is basically infinite copper though. Might be a good opportunity to try out trains on a non-campagin map.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at May 16, 2014 around 03:02

Rent
Jul 20, 2004
Steal the warm wind tired friend

Retro42 posted:

One of the big un-mentioned caveats to inserters is that they fill up the target to a point. Meaning ONLY 5 coal instead of a full stack. Also, boilers will only be fired up if one can keep the water temp high enough. Meaning only the first will be active if it's the only one needed.

Short answer: Not inserting fuel because it doesn't need to right now.

I should add that all of these were empty. I just took the pic at the wrong time

Why won't this put the plates in the box???



Why did I get bad at this game? It won't grab a SINGLE one

Rent fucked around with this message at May 16, 2014 around 05:37

The Shortest Path
Jun 21, 2012


Do you not have any power, or something?

Rent
Jul 20, 2004
Steal the warm wind tired friend

The Shortest Path posted:

Do you not have any power, or something?

No, everything has power. Surely I'm loving something up.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006



Bleak Gremlin

Rent posted:

No, everything has power. Surely I'm loving something up.

Have you tried rotating the arm 360 and picking up the box and put it back down?

Rent
Jul 20, 2004
Steal the warm wind tired friend

Dr. Arbitrary posted:

Have you tried rotating the arm 360 and picking up the box and put it back down?

Started a new map and everything seems fine

milward
Nov 5, 2009


I started a new game after beating the train-level ( well, I have to wait out the cration of the ammo still) in the campaign to try out some of the shiny stuff.

Is there an easy way to cheat in a few stacks of copper and iron bars? I find the first bit where you run around chopping trees to feed the burners tedious and would rather just jump to electricity right away.

This game tickles me in all the right ways so I want to get to the automation part from the get-go.

Samopsa
Nov 9, 2009


You can click 'edit map', and just drop down a bunch of poo poo for yourself and start on that map. I start with a bunch of inserters, miners and electricity infrastructure to skip the first boring 10 minutes.

milward
Nov 5, 2009


Samopsa posted:

You can click 'edit map', and just drop down a bunch of poo poo for yourself and start on that map. I start with a bunch of inserters, miners and electricity infrastructure to skip the first boring 10 minutes.

Sweet, thanks.

Hel
Oct 9, 2012

Jokatgulm is tedium.
Jokatgulm is pain.
Jokatgulm is suffering.


You can also open the console and type "game.speed = 10" if you want it over with quickly but without cheating. just remember to turn it back to 1 when you're done. Also great when you are waiting for some research to finish, or just stockpiling resources for expansion.

Optiquest
Feb 8, 2004



Started a new game with 6 or 7 mods; help.

http://www.twitch.tv/optiqu

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Sarrisan
Oct 9, 2012




Babies first science factory. This game is fascinating, even though I am quite sure I'm terrible at it (Doesn't help that I skipped the tutorial and only just bothered to check the controls an hour ago).

On the other hand, experimentation and careful optimizing is really fun. I think I demolished and rebuilt my iron process about a dozen times so far as I keep figuring out better ways to do it.

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