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Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

KirbyKhan posted:

But its a single player game.... Who are you cheating?


Oxyclean posted:

Yourself.

It's just a question if you care or not.

There's a time and a place for cheating and it's called Sandbox Mode, where everything is free and progression doesn't matter. Nothing wrong with it!
And of course, it's up to you to determine what is 'cheating', from "All buildings are free and you have access to structures that provide infinite power, and you can place water/land at will" all the way down to self-imposed challenge runs: I saw one where the player wasn't allowed to WASD move at all, they had to get around by belt, in which case tapping WASD would be cheating.

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Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
There's a reason Automation 1 is the very first tech available in vanilla. AngelBob's was made much more tolerable with the removal of the recipe-ingredient-limit since you can automate those crazy new inductors and casters and whatnot before yellow assemblers. (I assume, anyway, that the limit wasn't modded back in)

Caveman-tier sucks. Games that adhere to it are worse for it, full stop (Starbound comes to mind).

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

FISHMANPET posted:

OK, another problem I'm trying to solve. I've got a supply train, and I'm trying to load it up. I want one train car to hold 12 different cargos, but because of track placement, I can only use 11 chests. So trying to figure out how I can program the inserters to feed two different items. The problem is that they keep grabbing the first item until the train is full, and then just hang out with the full hand over the car, waiting for a spot to open up, so it never grabs the second item out of the chest. Is there some way (that won't involve building an enormous counting computer) to make the hands smarter?

The easy way is to set the inserter stack override to 1.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
As for #2, the easy solution is basically that all accumulators are essentially linked to each other regardless of distance, so put one near your steam engines and wire that one in

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
The story was to use a Rocket Defense to clear a safe zone for a colony ship to land. The story has been obviated with the loss of the Rocket Defense "structure", now you are launching a rocket to Win The Game.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Terraform, verb: to make earthlike

That is, to pave all vegetation, blacken the skies with smog, and eradicate all wildlife

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Gas Vents are slow as heck, you need like 5+ to match a Flare Stack (which is fine imo since flares are higher tech and more expensive)

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
If you go into sandbox mode you can place resources at will to blueprint upon, that's how I do it

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
The trick to high SPM is to very early on, have multiple rocket silos. Due to arming and launch timers that can't be sped up, a silo caps around 900-980 SPM. If you design your factory around, say, 4 silos, they'll never be the bottleneck and I've found that this allows one to do less "my factory can sustain 900 SPM for 3 minutes" and more "I need to grow these various inputs" which gets you to your goal faster. (Since you'll tend to 'sustain' 900 SPM for 30 seconds at a time which nobody would consider to 'count')

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
I'm looking forward to having new players build things right next to the refinery so there's nowhere to build pipes to the other two fluids once available, and also no way to pipe water in once possible since there's no real indication a new player might recognize

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

BadMedic posted:

I was about to make a joke about a Factorio TAS,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F8PI_VYdV8
but it turns out someone actually made one.

Guh!

He says [~4:03] that in order to go faster you would have to build more machines, but eventually if you were to build so many machines you'd be spending so much on the machines themselves you'd start losing time. While mathematically true, I think the point at which machines stop really being able to pay for themselves is at truly preposterous scales (8-32x the size of that base in my estimation) since assemblers/miners pay for themselves after operating for only seconds. Up-scaling power generation would become a bottleneck first

Evilreaver fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Aug 22, 2019

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

M_Gargantua posted:

I mean a TAS of Factorio might be the only speed run I have ever been qualified to do. Let me just run ~1000 hours of preprocessing in Matlab.

Unironically enthusiastically looking forward to seeing your results!

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

ShadowHawk posted:

Does anyone do the technique where you have mining drills point straight into a cargo wagon?

love 2 have a buffer size of 0

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
The only thing solar is good for is to make a blueprint of (1 Substation, 4 Radar, 20 Solar) and run it out to the far wilderness and let it passive scout a huge swath of territory for you without having to run wire out there. This also generates 0 pollution so it doesn't attract biters to it, and if some randomly happen by and nibble a radar, who cares? It cost you basically nothing. The 1:5 ratio means it's full power during the day, no batteries means it costs pennies and can be handcrafted if you give a hoot.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

kidkissinger posted:

If I have a robust nuclear operation, should I just be using lasers all of the time?

No. Gun turrets are essentially flat upgrades as long as you can supply them with ammo.

This writeup was made before Uranium rounds were a thing, which do DRAMATICALLY more damage than AP rounds; essentially meaning that all the Gun numbers are a lot better since Laser didn't get a matching upgrade.

Evilreaver posted:

I said I was gonna sperg about Turret Kill Times and now I have!!!

TLDR: Gun Turrets destroy Laser, DPS-wise
pre:
            Base Dmg     Base Rate     DPS  |  Max Dmg     Max Rate     DPS
Gun Turret   10           10/sec       100  |  48.4        26.0        1258.4
Las Turret   20            3/sec        60  |  48.0         7.8         374.4
Well, now you'll say "Well those Gun numbers look pretty good, but what about armor, huh?? What do you think of that? :smug:"

Time To Kill Biters (In sec) (W/ AP rounds)
pre:
      Base Gun      Base Las      Max Gun     Max Las
Sml      0.15          0.25         0.01        0.04     [No Armor]
Med      1.25          1.56         0.06        0.22     [4/0% Phys Armor]
Lrg     18.75          6.25         0.36        1.00     [8/0% Phys Armor]
Bhm    312.50         83.33         5.95       13.35     [8/20% Phys Armor]
(Spitters have no armor at any level so Gun pretty much clowns them)
The only time Laser wins is if you haven't bothered to upgrade Guns to ~green-limited tech by the time Larges show up, otherwise Guns win every DPS race by a comfortable margin.

Things To Consider When Building Your Wall Of Turrets
  • Guns need ammo, and more importantly need ammo fed to them, requiring belts/inserters or bots/inserters, making their use on remote outposts a chore (at best)
  • Thus, lasers can be packed in tighter (but not 2.24 times tighter to win vs Behemoths)
  • Lasers have a greater range, but the same 'aggro' range which attracts enemies to them, so in combat it's a non-issue
  • With 'wakeup' time and slow bullet travel, Laser's range benefit is pretty much a non-starter (except when enemies get close to your wall; more of your wall laterally can then fire on the swarm)-- which doesn't really help vs Spitters
  • Relying solely on Gun turrets will get EXPENSIVE steel-wise
  • On the other hand, Guns are cheap as poo poo to build/replace, losing 2-3 in an attack is peanuts
  • On the OTHER hand, Lasers have twice the health and are less likely to suffer losses in the first place, just repair kits
  • On the OTHER hand, the faster Gun TTK can sometimes squash swarms without taking appreciable damage to begin with, they can kill spitters before they get a shot off (laser travel time means they always get hit)
  • ...And that means that you get fewer 'we're under attack' sirens

My (subjective) testing indicates that a mix of turrets is ideal, if you want to bother feeding ammo to guns. Lasers obviously do their job just fine, and you can slap a block of them anywhere without a care in the world, but why not try a hybrid defensive line? You won't be disappointed when you see those chainguns light up a horde of Behemoths :getin:

Some time later I clarified my improved defensive protocols: [this post largely in response to "do spitters outrange guns?"]

Evilreaver posted:

Lasers outrange all bugs, and while they CAN kill fast enough to prevent spits, the presence of Biters throws the calculus off. I'm 95% sure that gun turrets match behemoth spitters, and they can definitely kill them fast enough provided behemoth bugs aren't tanking shots for them-- and since behemoth biters run faster and turrets target closest first, that gives the spitters their opening.

The trick is to use both gun and laser turrets- the very first bug is obliterated, then the guns wait for the charging biters (and grind them to dust with their superior DPS) while the lasers that can very quickly snap between targets then get to pick out the spitters and melt them (with their much smaller HP) in short order without wasting more than a few frames on the biters.

Flame turrets do indeed outrange them all, but the slow-travel fire means that all bugs get a chance to deal damage if not covered by other turrets. If you have oil nearby, sure hook up a line to reduce your power/ammo consumption, but gun/laser combo does all the work needed to, say, repel a horde after your arty train parks nearby.

edit: wording for clairity

Evilreaver fucked around with this message at 09:01 on Dec 4, 2019

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Roflex posted:

Just one continuous fractal curve for your rails.

On the subject of moving bases, I always thought it would be interesting to have a mod/scenario where you had to keep moving, perhaps as some kind of ribbon world where chunks fall off one edge of the map periodically, requiring you to continuously have to move everything in the other direction.

Reminds me of Outpost 2, an ancient RTS where in addition to everything else try to kill you there's a grey-goo style microbe that eats metal that follows your colony through the campaign

Woop, it caught up, time to move!

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Jabor posted:

I wonder if you could set up rail-supplied bastions further out from the wall to take the brunt of any attacks, and then the megawall itself only needs to be lightly defended.

I set up a perimeter wall, a tileable defense wall that includes all flavors of turrets plus bots, ports, ammo delivery etc, that also has two train stations; one to re-up on ammo/bots/walls/repair kits, and a second for a 20-length artillery train. The Arty Party is set to go to each station in sequence and stay for 90 seconds, then return to a re-arming depot.

This means that when I want to expand the wall, the area is already clear out to one arty length, it's also already scouted for the most part, and I get a nice predicable wave of bugs to watch wash up on my walls.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Have fluid tanks A and B, and direct-link Z. Have Z capped off at exactly one car's worth (1/3 car per tank) via circuits, fill from A, lock pumps. Train comes in, empties tank to train, train leaves full of A. As soon as it does, circuit trips to pump residual A back to storage. After some time/testing, lock A-residual and turn on B-fill until full, etc etc

Sounds easy as a theory, probably an rear end to actually implement.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
The big problem I have with biters is that if they get past your walls for any reasons (like, early/midgame when walls aren't in the budget), they demand your IMMEDIATE attention because they will start eating and never stop until you drop what you are doing and go kill them. Bonus points if you are at a remote base, as is often the case in the midgame.

My fix is that biters will 'infest' things. They'll straight kill things that shoot at them, and maybe 1/10 other things they get in contact with, but each biter/spitter will spend itself to infest a building, which hurts it a bit and stops it from working. This can jam a belt or halt a process, but it won't force you to completely rebuild an area that is razed to the ground which can be a chore if you don't have bots up, ie in the early/midgame. You can clean a building by destroying it and replacing it, by shooting it (which will hurt it a lot and may break it), or with nice cleansing fire (which would be tuned to not hurt buildings so much). Infested buildings will 'calm' bugs, based on their size, so per evolution there is only so much of your base that can be infested at once, ramping up over time. Calmed bugs act like they are near spawners, ie they mill around and don't attack until provoked.

Hordes infest as many buildings as there are bugs; a half dozen early on, and perhaps many dozens later on.

This means they are a threat and annoyance, but if you really need to you can ignore them a bit without coming back to a base that's nothing but ash.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Dirk the Average posted:

And if a queen gets into the command center they can start spawning infested terrans, right?

The bugs don't get helper humans until I do :mad:

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

FnF posted:


This sounds like nearly as much of a chore as replacing stuff biters have destroyed, unless I've misread?

The difference is between
"Biters destroy an infinite amount of buildings until stopped"
and
"Biters infest a limited area and stop on their own"

Both require cleanup, one requires an IMMEDIATE drop-everything response.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Wallrod posted:

I made a tidy little self sufficient radar outpost that fits around a single pylon



I was already sleep deprived when i started making it, so figuring out the numbers for the minimum parts required to provide near 100% power was enough for me. There's also some toggling fuckery you can do with circuits to only use one panel and accumulator, but that's wizardry so i left it alone. I like the idea of having minimal parts variety too. This dips power slightly in the early morning but it's not long enough to lose vision, it just slows down the long distance scanning.

I prefer the one Substation+4 Radar + 20 Solar flower, it doesn't work at night but it also works (net) faster, plus the radial symmetry pleases me

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
The polluted water doesn't go too far enough! I want rivulets of green sludge flowing from my assemblers, filling the cracks in my concrete tiling, that turns to glowing neon once nuclear material is being processed!

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Xik posted:

If the environment is going to look like rear end with pollution then we really need some options to manage it.

At the moment there are no tools to do this, only tools to manage the result of the pollution (biters). Pollution is just a guaranteed side effect of the factory so it seems weird to punish the player for just playing the game as intended.

Turning the skies black, charring the landscape to a well-done crisp, dumping toxins into the water until the rivers are flammable and turning the rainwater's pH negative are all positives imo

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Artillery outposts? Nah.
30-long Arty Train that does rounds around your territory? Yah :coal:

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
The trick is to have 15 personal laser defenses on while you're driving a tank, you don't have to divert any power to shields or exos

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Sorta off topic but I bet one of yous will know: anyone have a good block-planning drawing tool? I've been trying to use paint and excel and it's just an awful chore to do things like draw a radius or circle of effect, or to paint a couple blocks and move/rotate them around. Even in absence of anything else, just click-to-paint-cell would be a godsend from these tools (without paint/photoshop having to count out 50x50 grids or 100x100 grids manually first)

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
What I usually do is save, plan out my things, blueprint it, save the blueprint, reload the save, use blueprint

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Now that I'm getting back into 1.0, how do you enable the technology queue? I remember reading that they put it in but had it disabled by default because ???

and I see speedrunners using it


vvv my rage is unending

Evilreaver fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Aug 18, 2020

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
I'm having issues playing multiplayer. Your choices are:

1) Guy who has never played before / has played for an hour. You ask him to set up green science, and come back with 10 science assemblers fed by 10 inserter assemblers and 10 belt assemblers with 1 gear assembler. This guy builds power armor and fucks off to kill bugs for the entire game so you never see him and are now playing singleplayer

2) Guy who has 500 blueprints and who has completed the game as soon as it launches (I'm this guy). None of his blueprints work with any of yours.

I have to actively not use my own blueprint book or else every game just looks the same. If I play with #1 I have to tear it up to fix it and I feel back wrecking something someone worked on, with #2 it's a battle of competing standards

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

DreadCthulhu posted:

How do I tell if a pumpjack is about to be done? Seems like about 5 old clusters of pumps are == 1? Do you all send a train through all of your old pumps once in a while just to squeeze a little juice out of them, or is not worth it?

I have all my remote oil stations named Remote Oil, and hook the tanks up to the station, and only turn the station on when there is an oil pickup ready. Boom, trains cycle in and out of all stations, favoring the "live" ones and only going to "dead" ones when it's effective to do so.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Nah.

More radars means a particular area can get scanned up quickly but unless you are specifically making a scouting outpost that's not really a big concern, and one is plenty so you have the vision... Maybe a second is a backup in case one gets eaten by bugs.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
I use my gun as a fast-access ammo slot, I can always count on ammo being there if I need to fill a turret. Good for muscle memory

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Can I request a mod that slows down the nuke animation? The flash/mushroom cloud is over waaay too fast imo

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
It's me, I'm the wierdo who wants the extremely accurate industrial processes, complete with pipes that explode if flammable vapor backwashes to a empty vessel and hits the right fuel/air ratio (dependent on temp and chemical ofc) which can blow a huge section of your chem plant to bits

Probably isn't Factorio, but whatever that hypothetical game is, I want it

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

ikanreed posted:

The real magic impossible tech in factorio is assembler 1.

Being able to rearrange a couple metal plates into arbitrary machined shapes with a simple circuit board controlling it? Nuts.

this is the real burner inserter erasure

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Desert starts can be a little tricky. Get turrets and have an assembler work on yellow ammo, and keep it fed until you can get an SMG and/or red ammo to wipe hives, starting with that guy south of you. (Killing hives with yellow ammo is turbo rough)

If it's untenable, there is no shame in starting over.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

KillHour posted:

Squeak through is dumb and lets you move through things you obviously shouldn't be able to. It's cheaty and nobody should use it on a first playthrough. Blocking movement to force you to think more about how you lay things out is a perfectly good mechanic. There, I said it. :colbert:

hard agree

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum

Galvanik posted:

I feel like this is blindingly obvious in retrospect, but don't recall ever having seen this posted, but Spidertron Bridges


Make them big enough to plop some artillery turrets down and you can just creep along coasts or island hop while abusing the lack of pathing the biters have.

You only need one dot of landfill, conveniently at the very edge of default placement range, for spiders to walk across water. They will happily balance all eight legs on that dot if you stand still, too, and it's p goofy

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Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!
Dinosaur Gum
Personally the worst part of Satisfactory for me is that you have to build every "story" of a factory 3 walls high, which is very high and means long stairs-- even though most structures appear to be 2 stories tall at a time.

If the structures were just a little smaller, or even just their collision a little smaller so they """fit""" it would make the buildings so much nicer.

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