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LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Oh god. Oh god, my weekend.

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LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


In the full game, in sandbox mode, you can turn off the alien attacks and just build poo poo. Not only will you be able to spend days on your perfect zen factory layout, but you can still go FIND alien nests when you want their artifacts.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


I feel like what I really want is some detailed data to help optimize my setup, like:

Trying to match solar cells to batteries:
How many J does each solar cell make per day/night cycle?

Trying to balance steam engines and furnaces:
How does a steam engine consume hot water? Is it faster/slower based on the temperature of the water?
How fast can a pump produce water?
How fast can a furnace heat water?

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


You guys know that a mine pulls ore from one square farther than its graphic, right? 5x5.

I'm going to start screwing around with wires, though, because I hate having inventory piled up on my conveyor belts.

Gotdammy posted:

- A line of 7 boilers will feed 5 steam engines at maximum performance.
- A single water pump will run 2 of the above setups.
- Solar cell to battery ratio is ok at 1:1 but you will want closer to 2 batteries per cell once you get the laser pew-pews going in earnest.

Thanks for these!

Does it matter whether the steam engines are in serial or parallel?

LordSaturn fucked around with this message at May 6, 2014 around 18:54

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Sunblood posted:

I finally managed to put a good amount of time into this game last night, and drat is it fun. I'm big into modded Minecraft so this sort of automation is right in my wheelhouse. I got most of Green research automated.

Has anyone figured out how to create some sort of mass storage with resources delivered to factories on demand? I didn't get very far down the tech tree so I haven't unlocked Robots or anything, but my ideal setup would have all resources in some sort of central storage, piped out to various Factories evenly, and the outputs from the Factories coming back to that storage before heading off to other factories or labs.

Your options for controlling the flow of supplies are Logistics Networks and Logistics Drones.

Networks transmit the total number of all goods in connected chests, and then various devices (like the green loader arms) can connect to the network and be told to operate only if the connected supply is </>/= a target number. You need Smart Chests at a minimum to be able to do this, and all network signals are either electric-pole-to-electric-pole or pole-to-device. Green and red networks can run in parallel, and you can have an unlimited number of 'mini-networks' as long as you don't connect them.

Logistics Drones cost a bunch of research, but then you can make Requester (blue) chests that are programmed to demand resources be stocked in specific amounts, and use Provider chests to feed those. You also get to assign yourself some logistics orders, so the drones will put stuff in your pockets while you're in range. Passive Provider (red) chests will feed Requesters or you, Active Provider chests (purple) will feed Requester chests, yourself, or Storage (yellow) chests. Green arms in range of a drone hub can be programmed to listen to the supply of materials available to that drone hub in the same way as logistics networks.

Neither of these options is very good at having a central supply depot that distributes and collects automatically. Drones have lovely bandwidth, especially as compared to their electrical consumption. Networks aren't very good at understanding the concept of different chests with the same resource, and trying to feed multiple resources intelligently from one chest is difficult. I guess maybe you could have one or more depot input collection chests, and then green-arm poo poo around to sort it out? That's still a lot of unnecessary motion.

Basically, I would prescribe logistics networks all the way from the mines down to the factories that consume metal plates, because the bandwidth will be important. Those factories can directly feed their consumers where possible, and all the products after that can be droned around as needed.

LordSaturn fucked around with this message at May 8, 2014 around 14:59

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Morphix posted:

Can someone explain to me how Logistics robots work? I've built a Roboport and have 80+ robots sitting inside, and I've noticed I have the logistics tab in my build menu but aside from that I'm lost.

The research for Logistics Robots is super lovely, because all it does on its own is cram stuff into your pocket. That logistics tab on your build menu says "hey robots, make sure I always have this many of these materials." You need the Logistics Networks research to actually make the chests that can do that as well. See also my effortpost for how to actually do these things.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Hel posted:

Is that how it works? the way the tooltip is phrased it sounds like once you attack them they work as normal.

They aggro when you attack them, but only the ones attached to that "complex". Go out in your jeep and find a singleton nest, ram it over and gun down the survivors. The nest is where the artifacts are, anyway.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


I am quickly learning that on Peaceful Mode, trains are the only thing you can build that will just randomly kill you. Stay off the tracks, kids.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Elfface posted:

Also: Don't get off until they've stopped moving.

Or try to get on half a second before they start moving!

Basically what I'm saying is this game needs a big loud TOOT TOOT when a train's about to take off, so you'll know it's happening.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


What Djikstra doesn't know is that a train can't drive in a circle around that loop. It's possible to add a few curve bits to make that possible (for instance, to make that station a waypoint between two lines) but you have to be careful not to wind up with a signal segment shorter than the train that needs to traverse it.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


I don't have any screenshots handy, but my basic refinery setup takes advantage of the way a pair of adjacent refineries' outputs are offset by exactly five squares, which is just perfect for connecting to a pair of storage tanks. Then I can expand that setup in any direction.

The real secret to a non-suicidal refinery setup is to use below-ground pipes wherever possible, but most of you seem to have that under control.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Harik posted:

I'm trying to figure out logistics bus-belts - my basic core right now is wire, copper, iron plates, steel beams. To get blue science, I need a lot more than that - and I'd guess I don't want a logistics belt of fast inserters going down my core. What's a solid blue-science production line even look like?

I wouldn't necessarily prescribe bus-belts for secondary products, especially not the blue inserter chain for blue science. My setup uses direct feed from blue inserters to green (robot arm pulls from blue and stuffs into green) and then drone-flies the green inserters to the blue science plant.

My setup has been good up to now, but mass-producing those circuit units may just be a bridge too far. Next game I'll make sure my refinery complex is near my factory complex, and I can just train barrels from the oil field to the factory.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Per some advice I got previously in this thread, I tried to run 20 engines (in 5 chains of 4) off of 28 consecutively-chained boilers. That worked okay until I started drawing enough power to actually need all the boilers. It turns out it IS possible to overdraw your water system!

I broke it into four systems of 5 engines/7 boilers each and everything went back to normal.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


TheFluff posted:

The wiki says you need 1.31 boilers per engine and that you shouldn't run more than 14 boilers and 10 engines off of a single pump. It also suggests that storing hot water in liquid tanks is doable.

I didn't used to be able to read that wiki at work!

I had multiple pumps, it's a question of how much water can get through a single chain of pipes.

I did try storing the boiled water in tanks, but the result wasn't much of an improvement. Also if you screw up and those tanks get cold, they take forever to heat up again. Water only comes in at 100C, X units per second, regardless of the state of the tank.

EDIT: I guess it makes sense for offsetting solar.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Optiquest posted:

Is there any trick to keeping a steady supply of plastic and batteries? Is the logic system worth using? Trying to figure it out but I'm not sure if you just set it up based on what you want in a box or if whats in the box enables/disabled the smart movers?

The main thing is that you can't move liquids besides crude oil without piping them around, so make sure your refinery/chem plant is near your production lines, so you can bus-belt iron and copper into your battery machines and coal into your plastic machine. As far as getting them to their consumers, I'd probably use drones for that. But batteries and plastic get consumed slowly enough that I usually just hand-carry them in...

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Overwined posted:

And as has been said recently, if the engines don't need the heat, they'll basically shut the boilers down so they won't load. Chances are you aren't using but a fraction of your capacity.

Energy generation (especially steam) is much muuuucch deeper than it seems. I got into a thing in one of my early playthroughs where I realized that everything was moving at like 1/3 speed because I was overtaxing the system. I went back to my boiler array and see that the temp is fine at the boilers, but there's not enough water in the engines. So I make a few pumps (pain in the rear end) and put them down near my water source. Problem is, it's not enough. So they pump a little and my energy waves upwards. My other poo poo sucks up the juice and that saps the pumps' power, so energy flags. The other poo poo shuts down. The pump gets more energy, the water and the energy comes back. Lather, rinse, repeat. I had a perfect power starvation sine curve going on in power management.

Took me awhile to sort it all out. But I was impressed that it was a much deeper system than it appeared at first glance.

Are you using electric pumps to force water into your system? Just, like, run multiple parallel chains of engines and boilers.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Sarrisan posted:



Babies first science factory. This game is fascinating, even though I am quite sure I'm terrible at it (Doesn't help that I skipped the tutorial and only just bothered to check the controls an hour ago).

On the other hand, experimentation and careful optimizing is really fun. I think I demolished and rebuilt my iron process about a dozen times so far as I keep figuring out better ways to do it.

Oh god, backwash loops. That was like five factories ago for me

I'm finding my motivation to finish my current factory waning. Oh well, My money's in, I'm sure this'll be just as phenomenal when I come back to it.

My favorite thing not explained in the tutorials is that the ALT key toggles icons of what is in containers and what assemblers are programmed to produce. Handy in game and makes a much better screenshot.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Pornographic Memory posted:

Oh god. I've finally got a logistic network with logistic robots going and I just want to replace all my belts with a gigantic cloud of logistic robots and chests. My layout is a loving mess that I don't even know how to untangle though, and I'm on a peninsula that makes defense easily but heavily limits my space. On the other hand the logistic network means I can start dispersing my factories a bit and generally not giving a gently caress about location since I don't need to worry about laying belts out to the new ones.

Logistic robots have lovely bandwidth. Only use them for stuff that doesn't get used up very quickly.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


ickna posted:

I got fed up with overproducing science potions and dealing with buffer chests/backwash belts, as well as having so many intermediate parts belting around everywhere in my first few runs of the game. So I started a new map to focus on a "just in time" ethos, and this is what I've come up with so far:



Each potion assembler is holding four potions on standby, and the manufacturing chain is only active as needed. I reserved the space to the right of the labs for assembling blue potions. There is still room for improvement, and I think on my next map I'm going to look into integrating the wire/circuit/gear/inserter and gear/belt assemblers into the potion assemblies and only belting around the refined copper and iron.

Yeah, the just-in-time approach is what I prefer. It goes really well with drones, since you can just get as close as possible without drones and then automate a couple of the really complicated things like blue science.

My current least-favorite thing about the game is that you can't automate blue science production without spending 100 blue science.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Your Electric Demand Satisfaction is at like 66%. You just don't have any spare power.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


EvilMike posted:

Is there any reason to actually do this?

It lets you move oil from distant fields by train.

I mean, you CAN build pipes, but that's a lot of pipes.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Renaissance Robot posted:

They also instagib everything they touch, see the trailer for more info

Has anyone tried this as a defensive strategy? A set of endlessly orbiting locomotives making a sort of moat around your base...

vvv EDIT: Nooo

LordSaturn fucked around with this message at May 23, 2014 around 20:10

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


I was reading some of what the dev was saying about graphics optimization = apparently the game's big stunt is that all those sprite graphics are loaded into video memory at once on startup, greatly speeding up the game at runtime since everything's all loaded and ready to go.

So aside from needing a reasonable amount of VRAM, everything else is more CPU-bound than anything.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Pad-to-pad teleporters, with an appropriately gigantic charge-up cost.

A device to call up my trains from off-screen and change their routes/order them to come to a specific station.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Also, if they destroy it, it should gently caress poo poo up really bad in an enormous radius.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


What, have you never played a video game before? If the reactor goes down, poo poo explodes, to punish you for letting your reactor go down. It's not complicated.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


No, the oil is just hot. Boilers won't heat fluids past 100 C, and there's no model of pressure or combustion or anything. The oil just gets hot, and stays hot, until you pump it into a steam engine.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Stick Insect posted:

Today I discovered that if I put an engine at both ends of the train, I can forego the loop at the end of the line. Only the engine at the front is producing smoke, so I'm assuming that's the only one powering the train.

It also makes your train slower. Still easier, though.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Neruz posted:

What do you use wires for anyway; it seems like the wire network is rendered completely supurfluous by the logistics network and some decent planning.

Mainly, it's cheaper/easier to run wire to outlying facilities than it is to get a chain of drone hubs going out to there, especially if you're not going to do any drone work in the area.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


If you're using anything but self-fueling burner loaders to move poo poo around your base then you're a witch and the devil will take your soul.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Xel posted:

I set up a storage system of inserters moving items between each type of smart chests. Storage is moved to passive provider chests automatically. I can use the smart inserter at the end to control which types of items will be moved into the active provider chest and then moved back to storage, combining it with another stack of that item in the process. Or I can use the requester chests to mass move a type of item into a given row of chests.

I think at this point I need to make a much larger version of it to store more items. Or maybe there is a better way to deal with storage.




There needs to be a building to do this, chest-arm complexes are dumb. I do something similar but much smaller to compact belts into chests or expand chests into completely full belts.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Now replace your belts by arming stuff into one end of a train car and then out of the other

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Alternately, there's literally a checkbox for "biters will leave me alone" and sliders for "biters don't spawn at all" so you can just build your factory in peace. It misses the point of the game in a lot of ways, but sometimes you just want to build a factory, y'know?

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


yo mama so nasty she set the biter evolution factor to 2

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Is there not a mod with Very Large Chests to replace the Static Rail Car setup?

How clever could such a mod get? Could we have modular chests that just automatically glue themselves together when adjacent, yet share a static inventory?

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


So did the train patch come with or are we just on Steam now?

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


I've noticed that if I order stuff deconstructed, I'm then allowed to drop a blueprint over it. Is there a mod that makes it so that stuff is autoflagged for deconstruct whenever I drop a blueprint on it? It'd be handy for dumb stuff like "replace this belt segment with a side-balancer".

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Dunno-Lars posted:

That sounds like one misclick away from disaster.

I hope you don't think that's a reason not to want that mod.

LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Bedurndurn posted:

I thought I was being smart and decided to have all my things that required melting run into the same area of furnaces. Why is this silly furnace jammed?




So the arm on the right side is trying to put iron ore into it, but it's currently got a steel plate into it. The arm on the left isn't emptying the thing because it's decided it being lazy is fun?

These are those electric furnace things that some person from this thread made. Is this a bug or something I don't understand?

Take us a screenshot of the interface for the furnace. It will be easier to tell what's wrong if we can see what's in it. Have you tried dropping an iron ore in it yourself? I'm a huge idiot, you did that.

Also, in general, multifunctional smelters are a bad idea. Factories work best when each machine has one and only one job to do.

LordSaturn fucked around with this message at Mar 2, 2016 around 17:41

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LordSaturn
Aug 12, 2007

sadly unfunny


Mixed inputs are still a bad idea, because at some point you're going to need green arms to sort them back out before use, and green arm bandwidth is expensive compared to belt bandwidth. Or else you're dumping the poo poo in a provider chest and making your drones sort it, and drone bandwidth is REALLY expensive.

But both of those things will only be self-evident once you've played for a while, though. Factorio is an exercise in leaving room to grow.

chairface posted:

So I actually really appreciated the :sperg: about science output ratios. Got any other useful cheater rules like that for poo poo like steel production, circuit fab, etc? If someone's already done the math I'd rather just have a chart that reinvent the wheel.

The usual for circuit fab is three wire plants feeding two circuit plants.

code:
>>>>>>>>>copper>>>>>>>>>
 |  |     |  |     |  |
[wire]   [wire]   [wire]
    |     |  |     |
   [circuit][circuit]
      | |      | |
>>>>>>|>>>iron>>>|>>>>>>
<<<<<<<<circuits<<<<<<<<

LordSaturn fucked around with this message at Mar 2, 2016 around 18:20

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