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KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Ratzap posted:

Though how windows 10 uses 30% of 16GB with only a browser running I don't know.

Are you looking at used memory or committed memory? Used memory includes things Windows keeps cached because it thinks you might want to use it soon.

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KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


I think he means they're saturated at the start and run out by the time they get to gears.

Belts only have so much throughout. Maybe do underground weaving with yellow and red?

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Nice. I like the idea of otherwise potentially OP pieces needing smart use of the logistics system to see their full benefit.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Playstation 4 posted:

'potentially op'


Yeah I guess you're right, let's take some cues from the best and make it take 40+ hours real time to pay back it's buy in, be compatible with nothing but the owners items without converters, cost 20x as much as is reasonable, nerf anything else to enforce the precious vision, and of course explode if even the slightest thing goes wrong with no retrievable parts.

Why not just Greg it the gently caress up.

Which is why I said I liked that it requires some commitment to implement to its full potential in the form of planning/thought instead of nerfing it to hell. :confused:

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Would be cool if it was something you had to set via the logistics net - and there was a way that you could tell the arm when to grab from where and when to place where.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


I'm the opposite in that I want Factorio to play more like a tower defense game with logistics than sim city. Give biters better AI and make them more diverse but give me a huge military tech tree to deal with it.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


That sounds like the most painful thing ever.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


vOv posted:

I've always wondered, what the hell is up with your avatar?

They accidentally posted a link to a latex fetish site instead of something Factorio related.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Xerophyte posted:

Someone made an automated shuttle train:


What does this do?

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Baloogan posted:

actually writing a factorio-AI would be really cool

My personal pet project at the moment is writing a game that is basically factorio blended with Shenzhen I/O. I guarantee the performance will be poo poo and I'll probably never get it past the concept stage, but at least I'm learning a ton about reflection in .NET :suicide:

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Way too much. Each one is only 2%, so you'd need hundreds to saturate even a yellow belt.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Only if walking on them kills you.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


crabrock posted:

but they'd still intersperse with items that were doing nothing but taking up space.

what I'm imagining is a dock (like a train station) that has a cart/chest on wheels. the docking station "mines" energy when connected to power and inserts that energy into the cart. or charges it like a battery, whatever. loaders fill up the cart like they would a chest. when the cart is full, it leaves the dock and heads to the next dock, where inserters can unload it. when empty, it zooms back along the track. they'd have to be short, or the cart would run out of energy. seems like it would be doable. almost makes me want to learn lua

You can put a circuit network on a belt to start and stop the flow of materials now. Design a circuit that only lets as many objects onto the belt that you need.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


I like that design a lot - it removes the bottleneck of ore logistics.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Uranium does it somehow.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Don't build a bus then. Embrace the spaghetti. Or build an overly complex arrangement to avoid the ore.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


The factory expands to meet the needs of the expanding factory.

Don't worry about being efficient or orderly or any of that. Just keep building.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


It should leave a shiny stain on the ground if it's oil and it should char the ground if it's acid :colbert:

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Solving oil is one of the most interesting problems in the game. Avoid blueprints and guides entirely, IMO. Don't be stubborn and insist on making everything perfect the first time you play - you can't unlearn it and you'll miss out on the discovery, which is the entire point.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


That's like watching a let's play of a puzzle game :psyduck:

I mean, as long as you're having fun, I guess.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Look at this scrub who has never stepped on a Lego.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Canuckistan posted:

Honk needs it's own mod category, like Primus is it's own category ID3 or Itunes category:

Honk
Honk - Honk!

I never knew this and it's amazing.

http://id3.org/id3v2-00

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


So I finally gave Seablock a try and goddamn, it's a disaster. Once you get to logistics 2, you need bronze, which can only be made with Angel's smelting, which is completely incompatible with anything you've done before because now everything is ingots instead of plates, and those have to be made with vanilla ore instead of the Bob's ores, so now you need ore sorting and sushi belts and it's just tedious bullshit where you have to rip up half your base for no reason and I don't have nearly enough power for any of that. It feels like nobody cared about how the game feels to play or any progression and just threw a bunch of poo poo together that doesn't really work.

Here's the base, if anyone cares.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Jabor posted:

It's a pretty natural progression? Instead of plumbing your mixed ores directly into smelters, you landfill out a bunch of stuff ahead of your smelters and add a sorting stage.

If anything it's easier in seablock because you can just extend out in that direction, instead of needing to add it between your existing mines and your existing factory.

E: rereading, I guess maybe you skipped the "sorting, but still using regular smelting" stage? I guess if you never did that and just stuck with the inefficient recipes for as long as possible then you'd have to rebuild your smelting at the same time as you add sorting, which would be an annoyingly big overhaul.

Vanilla Factorio gets this right - it never forces you to abandon what you've built. It demands you build exponentially more of it, but it never says "Okay, now you can't use this furnace setup any more because the products are literally useless." I don't enjoy designing something to scale and then the game going "Oh, that was only the temporary way to build it - now you have to do it this other way." It's annoying and gives no sense of progression. I'm okay with alternate recipes being more complex but more efficient, but I JUST built that smelter array and now the game is making me tear it down and replace it with induction furnaces. There's no reason the mod doesn't include a bronze recipe using mixing furnaces except to say gently caress you. I'm done - I'll go play something else.

Edit: This is on top of me never feeling like I actually got to build anything because I spent the entire game fighting with power and trying to feed the drat furnaces and now it's all "Haha, here's another 10MW worth of poo poo to power, sucker." What the hell am I going to do with that big arboretum setup I made just to make the coal for the smelting furnaces now?

KillHour fucked around with this message at 04:39 on May 11, 2020

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Jabor posted:

Feed it into boilers to ramp your power even further?

But yeah, the core conceit of Seablock is having to make efficient use of space, and tearing down and rebuilding old modules when you unlock the tech for new ones is a big part of that gameplay loop. If you want a big sprawling base where you just build new stuff next to the old then you might be happier with a more traditional biters-and-ore-patches set of mods.

I'd buy that if I didn't have 3 sets of washers running overnight leaving me with 50k+ sand that I can use to pave the world if I want.

I think the big problem is just the sprawl - there are 5 ways to do everything and none of it aligns. I played Bob's back in the day and it was just Factorio but more. There were a lot more steps, but there was always a clear "next thing to do." Now it's bob-angels-whatever and it's everything and the kitchen sink, except not everything quite works with each other. Now I have all this farming stuff and I don't know what I'm supposed to do with it because it doesn't make anything I need. I have stuff unlocked out of order because the power situation is a mess and figuring out how to combine lumps of charcoal together into something with more than 4MJ of energy is apparently some advanced witchcraft that required me to burn halfway down the oil tree by pocket crafting green science while I watched Youtube videos for an hour and a half. I don't even have green circuits automated yet because nothing needs enough of them for me to run through the 500 basic components I made 10 hours ago. poo poo just generally doesn't line up. Why are there multiple recipes for things with the same name but different icons that can't be used interchangeably? What's the difference between ingots and plates and why do I care? Why do some recipes produce stuff so fast the machine idles 90% of the time but others need 10 machines just to make a decent dent? Why did green science immediately unlock literally several dozen technologies, none of which I know if I will need now or in 50 hours? I like the premise of the mod, but there needs to be an actual logical and intuitive progression and not just "Hope you like spending 5 minutes actually building and 5 hours figuring out what you're supposed to be building and/or waiting for a progress bar to fill." I don't even know what the hell I'm supposed to be doing. This feels like a mod for people whose hobbies include "Memorizing the first 10,000 digits of pi" and "Solving the traveling salesman problem on a map of Europe by hand."

M_Gargantua posted:

If thats how you feel about the genius logistics puzzle that is Angels Ores and Angels Petrochem, I don't think seablock is the challenge modpack for you. 100's of hours into seablock and you're finally able to start building real machines that do real work. Seablock is an idle clicker for Factorio Fans.

Also sounds like you're missing half of the available production chains for some reason. Use FNEI to find out you don't have to rip up half your base.

Bob's is great. Angels is loving terrible.

I used FNEI to look up bronze plates and there is exactly one recipe for it.

KillHour fucked around with this message at 05:13 on May 11, 2020

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007




A few things:

- I obviously hate myself and want to be miserable.

- This is not more space efficient than a block of furnaces of the same capacity. Not even close.

- This might be more input-efficient, but inputs are effectively unlimited because Seablock

- My iron output is now limited by how much copper I can use or store, which is the worst thing ever.

- If I ever have to rip this out and replace it, I'm going to go into a fell mood and make a legendary factory from Bob's skin. It will menace with spikes of Bob's bones.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Sage Grimm posted:

you have to switch over to using catalysts.

Akkfsbsugsjwffsunsneuejejjejhegeh

I don't even have that poo poo unlocked yet don't tell me I have to redo all this. :suicide:

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


There's no point to having a robot place any of that when pocket crafting each building is a good 2 minutes of time. More when you're waiting for all the steel and brick. Also, the inputs are so complicated, you can't just copy and paste - none of those rows are the same. You really spend more time actually planning what has to go where than placing any of it.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Dark Souls is a good game that actually had thought put into the design. Angelbobs is made by people who enjoy making mod content more than they enjoy playing the game and played by people who get sexual pleasure from spreadsheets and flowcharts. Also masochists like me with something to prove.

I may add a universal solid item void to save my sanity or just allow clarifiers to get rid of molten metal.

KillHour fucked around with this message at 15:52 on May 11, 2020

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


I would just go insane trying to keep them supplied with raw materials instead. Also power and space limitations.

I put down temporary stuff for some things. Honestly, I'm usually just loving waiting for iron and green science.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Ambaire posted:

Vanilla Factorio does have 3 tiers of furnaces, and not only do the old ones become obsolete as you unlock the next tier, but the 3 tiers have to be crafted individually.. they don't upgrade from one to another.

None of the products in Seablock are 'literally useless', or become such. They're always useful in some way from early to late game.

But you don't have to use them until you're ready. You can stick with the beginning furnaces until the end of the game if you want. It's not like the other furnace tiers are capable of making different items than the tier 1. They're just faster. They also replace cleanly without replacing anything before or after the furnace array.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


That is the most inconsequential thing ever compared to the amount of rejiggering literally everything in seablock needs to keep working. I don't mind replacing buildings or even entire sections - that's the game. I mind spending all day on something and tearing it down literally a couple hours later.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


I like it. Itches that "complicated but not random" part of my brain.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


I like the idea of polluted water, but the implementation doesn't look good. It should look oily, not just green.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


In honor of 1.0, I decided to start a new vanilla game for the first time since .16.

I've never launched a rocket in vanilla, so my goal was to embrace the spaghetti until I got a personal roboport (just finished that) so I could build even BIGGER spaghetti!



It's so nice not caring about symmetry or scalability or whatever.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Bhodi posted:

seablock...balance

I don't think you get seablock.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


I'm the opposite. I haven't built a single cliff explosive and I only ever fill in narrow isthmuses with landfill because there are no bridges :argh:

Working around the terrain is The Best and spaghetti is The Point.

I want a base that looks like the trailer cinematic.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


LonsomeSon posted:

Pretty sure a narrow neck of land with water on two long sides is an isthmus, a narrow neck of water with land on two long sides is a channel.

Landfill is for dropping a couple of tiles in order to run undergrounds, and not loving up my perfect robogrid if that’s what I’m doing

You are correct. I should have said turning channels into isthmuses. You pedant.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Peep dat chickencheesespaghetti


I missed this game so much. :allears:

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KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Oxyclean posted:

Far too tidy.

Give it time. :getin:

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