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Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-73

This is gonna rock

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Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Phssthpok posted:

The nice thing about trains is that it doesn't really matter how fast they go. Only loading, unloading, and acceleration affect throughput. So you can just ignore travel time and put concrete under the tracks to boost pollution.

Are you saying the impact of speed is negligible, or that it doesn't matter at all? It does have an impact, and the significance depends on the proportion of travel time vs. loading time. Sending a train back and forth between two stations is basically like shouting at a wall, waiting for the echo, and then shouting again. If the sound wave travels faster, you have less turnaround time before you can shout again, so you'll get more shouts per second.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Has anyone else seen huge lag spikes when using atomic bombs in multiplayer? Every time someone uses a nuke in my server they get a lot of stuttering and sometimes they're unable to move for a little bit, and everyone else who can see the nuke is also affected. It's really dangerous, it makes it difficult to avoid the blast radius when doing hit and run nuke attacks, and if you get stuck in place the biters can kill you.

We only play with 2-4 people and I should have plenty of network bandwidth for that (I'm hosting the server process) so I don't know what's going on.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Foehammer posted:

Do you see the same behavior when aggroing a massive colony of biters?

I think it's just when nuking them. Fighting them with conventional weapons didn't seem to cause it

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Yeah, I'll do that if I'm being a more methodical. But even then I'm at risk of the biter swarm getting me during the lag.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

As a bit of an experiment I loaded up the multiplayer server's save file in a single-player game and ran around nuking and aggroing some bases. As best as I can tell, aggroing the biters doesn't cause any problems, but nukes definitely cause some UPS drops. It happens most of the time, but not always. I think it's worse when there's more stuff in the nuke's blast radius. Interestingly, the slowdown happens after the fireball has spread out and reached its full size, not during the initial blast.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

You start using uranium a lot faster when you build nukes.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Ratzap posted:

Unfortunately not in this case. You can mark tiles with the deconstruction tool but around buildings/pipes etc it's too fiddly. It's easier to do it by hand and even then takes a fair while.

Relaying the new stuff would have been quicker with more but this save is in the middle of a base rebuild so I'm stuck with what there is for now.

You can set a filter on the deconstruction planner so that it'll only pick up a certain item. Not sure if it'll work for concrete on the ground, but if it does that will solve the fiddliness problem.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Wrt blueprints, my personal rule is that I never use one until I have fully understood how it works. Which in practice means I mostly avoid the circuit ones and stick to easy stuff like train intersections. Doesn't feel as cheaty if I convince myself I could replicate it.

Also I'm too lazy to go find blueprints that I could instead make myself, so the only external blueprints I have are those me and my friends made/found during multiplayer games.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Some software systems are designed for 9 9s uptime

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

My friends and I were thinking of starting a new multiplayer game with lots of mods, in particular Angel's and Bob's. Anyone got advice for doing a playthrough like this? Any other mods we should pick up?

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

I wish artillery could fire nukes

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Nuclear is definitely feasible without kovarex. A single fuel cell has so much energy and you get 10 of them from one good uranium ore. You'll need a lot of storage chests to hold the bad uranium but that shouldn't be a problem if you're at this point of the game. Also you'll probably want like 6-10 centrifuges, iirc? But again, nuclear is so ridiculously efficient that you don't need much to support a basic reactor

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Evilreaver posted:

Yeah 10 hours for payback is beans. The only thing is that it's hard to get modules that far down the line when there's a multitude of LDS, Processor and Chip lines to module up first. It's worth noting that they pay off every 2 hours, not just the first two. And as those facilities grow, they need more modules.

Anyway my use for active providers is my centrifuges, since that allows the garbage uranium to be infinitely stored so the good stuff never backs up.

You just made me realize I've been handling my uranium centrifuges in a really dumb way :doh:

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

The Locator posted:

My uranium stuff is pretty basic, so I'm not sure what you guys are talking about with infinite bad stuff storage.

Currently I have a number of centrifuges (10? Maybe 12) from 2 different ore patches doing basic refining.

I have three more doing the kovarex thing which is building a pretty large surplus of the good fuel for my reactors, and one doing spent fuel reprocessing.

All the extra garbage is turned into glowing green bullets or just stored in chests.

My nuclear is pretty young, what important thing am I missing?

You just have to be a little careful so you don't get too backed up if the depleted stuff isn't used quickly enough for a time. In my case I'm doing almost all of it with belts, but I just realized that it's low volume enough I could do it with bots and have way better buffering than I do now

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Breetai posted:

I'm starting to use nuke power for the first time and have got my first 40 lots of U235. Is it still the case that one enrichment centrifuge is enough to basically power a massive base in perpetuity, or should I set up multiple enrichment centrifuges? I am also considering mounting a couple of L3 speed modules in it, if that makes a difference.

1 centrifuge will get you very far if all you want from it is power. I don't 100% remember how long it takes to run one round of enrichment but I think it's 60 seconds. You get 1 enriched uranium out, which makes 10 fuel cells. A reactor eats a fuel cell every 200 seconds. Therefore you can keep more than 30 reactors going with just the one centrifuge.

You only start to need more enrichment if you want to make nukes, because that takes 30 U-235 for one bomb

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

ZekeNY posted:

Excuse me, the proper way is with a flamethrower. :colbert:

Did the flamethrower get nerfed? I feel like it leaves behind more trees than it used to

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

The Locator posted:

Did it used to be better? I have only ever played in 0.17 and I put my flamethrower ammo in a chest and left it there after I burned down a forest only to be left with a forest of snags to get rid of.

It always used to leave trees behind but I could have sworn when it first was added to the game it was more thorough.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

If you have laser turrets and personal roboports turret creep seems to work pretty well even into the late game

Before personal roboports you can use regular turrets and hand place them

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Tamba posted:

They aren't military buildings, so they should only get attacked if they're in the way

If they want to set up a base they'll kill power poles to clear the area, that's usually what gets you.

Tbh I don't know of any foolproof way of avoiding it, try to either guard your power poles or make the network redundant enough that it's not a problem



Or you can do the rail world thing and turn off biter expansion

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

But why did you get it? Did you do something with the devs?

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

In my most recent game with some friends we built a giant fuckoff huge rear end reactor by making an artificial island in a big lake. We get almost 8GW out of it. It works well, if you have the patience to landfill that much (and oh God does it need stone, so much stone).

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Grenades are easily the best forest deleter until bots get fast and you have a lot of them. Early bots are painfully slow and if you don't have lot you probably want them building other poo poo. And if you don't actually want/have the ability to deal with the wood, you don't want to use bots anyway. Meanwhile, the flamethrower is fun but it leaves behind trees that you still have to destroy.

Of course nukes are the best in all things, all hail the holy atom

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Mithaldu posted:

Biters destroy 5 things:

1. you
2. military objects in immediate range (turrets, radars)
3. pollution producers that enraged them at a distance
4. anything that sufficiently impedes their movement (static objects, vehicles, belts that move them around)
5. anything that hurts them (be it weaponry or autonomous vehicles)
6. anything nearby any object from 1-5 when a spitter spits acid at them by way of splash damage

So, powerlines are fine if you don't drop them into a forest. Rails are fine as long as the train running on them doesn't hit a biter, or doesn't have you in it.

I don't think this is quite right, I've had powerlines out in the middle of empty space get cut. I think if the biters put down a colony they might clear some buildings, maybe if the power pole is right where they want to put a spawner for example. It's happened enough that my group has taken to building long turret walls at distant choke points to secure sections of the map, because we found that isolated outposts would too easily get cut their power cut.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

On a more high level subject, I definitely recommend setting up a dual track system and having stations branch off from it on one-way tracks. It scales much better than individual point-to-point loops. No matter how far you are from home, you just know that you have to hook an outpust up to the mainline and somehow there will be a path to anywhere else in the network


You could run a single track main but your throughput would be terrible and making sure it runs safely is a lot more complicated.

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Truga posted:

4-4-0 is the best arrangement :colbert:

:v:

4-8-8-4

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

When all else fails, stock up on flamethrower ammo

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

You don't need a latch for the cracking control, that can be done directly off the tank level

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Do you folks go for fortified but isolated outposts or do you prefer to seize an area with a perimeter defense and then build relatively undefended outposts within that zone? Or some other strategy?

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

M_Gargantua posted:

The upgrade planner things already been answered...

but blue belts are incredibly inefficient uses of material.

Red belts a 2x as fast as yellow belts but cost 4x the resources.
Blue belts are 3x as fast but cost 11x the resources

Blue belts are great when you need to pack a lot of resources through a small space. But if you're building new constructions than using red belts as the normal is far more efficient, leaving many more resources for science and ammo. Yellow belts are obviously the most efficient but red is a good balance between speed and cost. Parallel designs, space is unlimited.

Counterpoint: the simpler logistics of only having to carry one kind of belt makes it worth it to use them everywhere, eventually

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Lou Takki posted:

I've always done my rails in right hand drive is that not the commonly accepted method? Anything else seems like madness to me.

Some strange people from an island far across the sea prefer left hand drive, for reasons unknown

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Factorio, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Gadzuko posted:

They've sold over 2 million copies, all full price. Right now they say the team is about 20 people. Of course they aren't getting the entire 60 million dollars, there's vendor fees and such, but I think it's a safe bet that they are going to be financially secure for a good long while.

20? When did that happen? I thought they were 3-4

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Dancer posted:

Alas, the mod does change fuel values. I'll see if I can figure out this modding thing, the change required should be trivial.

On an unrelated note, when I started my latest factory, I decided to challenge myself to embrace slap-dashery and spaghetti until I got all 6 sciences running. I've achieved that now, and I reckoned there's a chance y'all might enjoy seeing the result:


I quite like your overall layout. It's different but not that disorderly. I find that in my own factories, if I deviate from a bus it quickly becomes absolute chaos

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Truga posted:

IIRC you get more bang for buck if you crack heavy to light before making solid fuel, too. Heavy is only really ever used for lube

Yes, light oil is the optimal way to make solid fuel.

What I usually do in refineries is set up some pumps and circuit conditions:

Turn heavy into lubricant
If too much lubricant, crack to light
Turn light into solid fuel
If too much solid fuel, crack to petroleum gas

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Canuckistan posted:

I wasn't sure what you meant by that until I checked out the FF. Then I was like :hellyeah:. Can you make mobile construction bot trains? It would be neat to have a train that you could load a shitload of tracks into which creates the track as you drive it.

https://i.imgur.com/XuP0plg.mp4

FARL does that! I haven't used it in years though, not sure if it's still supported

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Mithaldu posted:

As i mentioned earlier, that more importantly also has tree planting by missile, which is super satisfying and very effective.





Tree.... Planting? What is this heresy

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

Solumin posted:

I always forget that solid fuel is an option. It doesn't really seem worth the investment, probably because my oil refining always ends up on the opposite side of the factory from my power plant.

sounds like a problem to be solved with trains

Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

We have one person who likes to build very big and often cooks up blueprint ideas offline, one person who likes to make things efficient/smart and also usually develops rail blueprints, one who generally just goes around killing biters and making turret walls, and me who makes terrible spaghetti all over the place and eyeballs all ratios and also uses all our construction bots to place concrete which annoys the efficiency person. It works surprisingly well

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Yaoi Gagarin
Feb 20, 2014

1-indexed arrays? gently caress me it's like the bad old days all over again

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