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Antifreeze Head posted:I only know the SFII guys, so in my world Akuma hasn't been called up yet. Woah, woah, woah, Akuma was a secret boss in II* *Turbo Edition Edit: Of course my pedanticness about video games starts the new page.
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Aug 21, 2014 04:46
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Zythrst posted:Ryu is a pitcher and E. Honda should be at 3b. If you've ever had to fight an O.Sagat player in SSF2T you know why he's starting over Ryu.
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Aug 26, 2014 12:10
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Anime Reference posted:If you've ever had to fight an O.Sagat player in SSF2T you know why he's starting over Ryu. A++ username/post combo.
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Aug 26, 2014 18:42
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Akbar posted:A++ username/post combo. Honestly maybe the best I've seen. So here's one that I don't think we can actually hash out statistically that I can't shake out of my head. Mark is obsessive compulsive and has pinpoint control. He can place the ball anywhere he likes but he cannot throw a ball outside the strike zone and he cannot throw above 85 miles per hour. The amount of movement on his pitches is consistently in the top 10% of all pitchers. Mitch is a flamethrower with control problems. Only 1/2 of his balls ever find the strike zone and they're distributed randomly. His average fastball velocity, howerver, is 105 mph. This helps compensate for his lack of control and for the fact that the amount of movement on his pitches places him in the bottom 10% of pitchers. Both pitchers use a standard mix of 4-seam, 2-seam, slider, change. Mark's 2-seam is his best pitch, and Mitch obviously has the four-seam. Who's more valuable?
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Aug 27, 2014 15:03
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I would rather have 200 innings from Bob Tewksbury than 200 innings from...I dunno...bad Dontrelle Willis? If Mitch's pitches (ugh) don't move at all, hitters should be able to sit on the 105 MPH fastball and crush it and either adjust to his lovely breaking stuff or let it go hilariously wide/high/low of the strike zone. I can see Mark being successful. I cannot see Mitch being successful.
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Aug 27, 2014 15:13
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Intuitively I would say Mark, simply because there are tons of guys who never made it out of AA with great stuff because they never developed major league control
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Aug 27, 2014 15:14
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Batters will not know whether they can/should swing at Mitch's pitches. They will know to always swing at everything that Mark throws them. It's not that Mark won't get any strikeouts, but he's likely to accrue a record-low number of strikeouts.
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Aug 27, 2014 15:47
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The absolute best case scenario for Mitch seems like 5-6 decent innings per start. Mark's stuff isn't special, but I feel like a pitcher capable of putting the ball wherever he wants with great movement would have that as his floor.
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Aug 27, 2014 15:47
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When I started digging into the stats to find a plausible answer I found an entertaining problem with my hypothetical question, and I'm happy to see that my own biases have transferred over. Check out the MLB average zone% over the past few years by pitch F/X and see that the average major leaguer throws almost exactly half his pitches within the rule-bound strikezone.
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Aug 27, 2014 15:53
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Two hypothetical hitters: Dave: Dave has an itchy trigger finger. He swings as hard as he can at every pitch he sees, often swinging out of his helmet. Unless a pitch is very obviously a ball, he can't resist swinging. His immense swing and big power mean that he will hit at least 40 home runs per season, but outside of that he is a .200 hitter with an average power-hitter's mix of singles and XBH. Any time he doesn't get a hit or a HR, he strikes out. Don: Don is a master of patience. His mantra is "make them throw me strikes". He absolutely will not swing at pitches around the edges of the zone until he's got 2 strikes. If something is very obviously a strike, he swings, but borderline pitches he always takes. This also means Don is never fooled by high-movement pitches that start out looking like a strike but tumble out of the zone. Because of Don't philosophy, his swing has to be measured and precise. He doesn't have a lot of power, but he also never (never) strikes out, so he basically just singles and walks a lot. He hits .275 for the season, has an OBP of .340 because he also walks on all those borderline pitches he's taking, and all his remaining PAs result in flyouts, lineouts, and groundouts at an evenly split rate. Which guy is more valuable? It seems like I should hate Dave because he looks like a dumb oaf a lot of the time, but he is also guaranteeing my team that he will produce at least 40 runs per season, and his .200 average with doubles and triples sprinkled int here means at least some of the rest of the time he is either driving in runs or scoring runs. Don, on the other hand, I would instinctively like more at a glance because his at bats don't look stupid and he gets on base consistently. On the other hand, getting on base doesn't necessarily result in runs, and his 66% rate of lineouts+groundouts means a lot of the time he won't advance other runners and might even cause a lot of double plays. But still, his high average and OBP might mean that he becomes a scored run or drives in runs more often than Dave. This is actually a thing I have difficulty judging as a newer devotee to the game. I instinctively hate hitters like Dave, but I actually end up having a lot of trouble working out statistically whether Dave actually is that bad vs Don, or if I just like Don's pretty numbers better because that's what you're trained to do by the television crew.
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Aug 27, 2014 16:33
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Two hypothetical hitters: Dave is basically Dave Kingman from 1982. Across 149 games that season, Kingman hit .204 with 37 homers and 156 strikeouts. He had 109 hits and 99 RBI. His resultant WAR is 0.1. I'm sure watching him mash was good fun, but that party ended when Keith Hernandez arrived. Don should have been called Ben because he is pretty similar to Ben Revere across his career. Across a 162 game average, Revere hits .292 with 0 homers and 62 strikeouts. He has 184 hits and 34 RBI. His resultant WAR is 4.0. I'm sure watching him leadoff is great fun, but that party will end when his foot speed starts to slow. In an overly simplistic way, you could say Don (Ben) is 40 times better than Dave. That's not really how WAR works, but it illustrates the point that from a standpoint of playing the game, Don (Ben) is the better guy to have. A team's front office might not quite see it that way though. Many more people come to the ball park for the chance to see someone rocket a ball over the fence than to watch a guy soundly hit singles. So if your team is both in the doldrums in the standings and the balance sheet, go with Dave because wins can't help you pay your mortgage.
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Aug 27, 2014 17:48
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Antifreeze Head posted:Dave is basically Dave Kingman from 1982. Across 149 games that season, Kingman hit .204 with 37 homers and 156 strikeouts. He had 109 hits and 99 RBI. His resultant WAR is 0.1. I'm sure watching him mash was good fun, but that party ended when Keith Hernandez arrived. The problem with using WAR in this case is that it takes into account everything and not just their hitting. Even OWAR is going to be a bit deceptive because of baserunning. I'd still take Don, though, because Dave not drawing any walks means his OBP is .200 and that's terrrriiiibllllllleeeee. Even with his poo poo average, Kingman drew enough walks to have a .285 OBP that year. IcePhoenix fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 17:58
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Dr. Tommy John posted:Batters will not know whether they can/should swing at Mitch's pitches. They will know to always swing at everything that Mark throws them. Hitters can and do spit on 100mph fastballs especially if they aren't deceptive.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:04
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Hitters can and do spit on 100mph fastballs especially if they aren't deceptive. True, but has anybody actually hit a 105? Though I'm sure they would eventually.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:20
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Zythrst posted:True, but has anybody actually hit a 105? Though I'm sure they would eventually. I think the highest is in the 102ish range, so 105 would be a significant jump, but if it's straight, it's just identifying the location and swing timing. Plus if you know the guy has absolutely poo poo control you'll take a lot of pitches.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I think the highest is in the 102ish range, so 105 would be a significant jump, but if it's straight, it's just identifying the location and swing timing. Didn't Chapman hit 105 a few years ago?
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Aug 27, 2014 19:15
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Yeah sorry to clarify I meant put bat on ball in a meaningful way.
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Aug 27, 2014 19:30
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Zythrst posted:True, but has anybody actually hit a 105? Though I'm sure they would eventually. An interesting follow-up, how fast would a pitch need to be thrown so that the batter has no chance of even fouling it off? 110 MPH? 120?
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Aug 27, 2014 20:59
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I believe that Chapman holds the world record after throwing a 104.5 mph fastball a couple years ago. I'm saying that Mitch's average velo is 105, meaning he can reach back and go higher. He throws harder than any human being on the planet and doesn't have zero movement, he's just in the bottom 10% of major league pitchers (who are already very good) in that one regard. The trick is that the average MLB pitcher in from 2001-2014 threw right around 50% strikes, so his control is actually completely average. I'm taking Mitch, personally.
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Aug 27, 2014 20:59
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If Mark's control and movement are good enough to get like a 80+% GB rate that's extremely valuable. You're basically talking a version of Dan Quisenberry that doesn't walk anyone. He could also probably set an IP record.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:14
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Dr. Tommy John posted:I believe that Chapman holds the world record after throwing a 104.5 mph fastball a couple years ago. I'm saying that Mitch's average velo is 105, meaning he can reach back and go higher. He throws harder than any human being on the planet and doesn't have zero movement, he's just in the bottom 10% of major league pitchers (who are already very good) in that one regard. So is Mitch's disability that he has a 50/50 shot of getting the ball where he wants it to go or is it that 50% of his pitches are in the strike zone and 50% are not because that's a big difference
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Aug 28, 2014 00:16
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Declan MacManus posted:So is Mitch's disability that he has a 50/50 shot of getting the ball where he wants it to go or is it that 50% of his pitches are in the strike zone and 50% are not because that's a big difference Yeah if it's "throws 50% strikes" Mitch doesn't really have a disability other than movement.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:18
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With 105mph it's not just sitting get on a speed. It's sitting on a location. You have to predict or know where it's going to go. It's so fast if you don't guess right you will make weak contact if at all.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:41
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The pitcher who got half strike outs and half walks would only be useable as a reliever because assuming he's not throwing 4 straight balls or 3 straight strikes 100% of the time his pitch count would be way too high anyway to be anywhere near a starter.
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Aug 28, 2014 01:26
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Dr. Tommy John posted:Honestly maybe the best I've seen. Shrecknet fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Aug 28, 2014 |
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Aug 28, 2014 18:24
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Everblight posted:Give up 1B offensively every 4 days and let them both pitch at the same time, changing it up per batter (or even mid-at-bat if that's allowed). Hitters may be able to adapt to 85mph wiffleballs and 105mph pills over a game, but not from at-bat to at-bat. Can you do that? I thought you had to remove at least 1 player from a game any time you switched positions. Which doesn't really make that much sense; with defensive shifts, there are entire at bats where there's really no such thing as a 2b/SS/3b; just 3 dudes who stand in various configurations around the infield. They don't even have to be in the same relational order.
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Aug 28, 2014 19:14
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FairGame posted:Can you do that? I thought you had to remove at least 1 player from a game any time you switched positions. There's no rule about removing players to have them switch positions. You just generally don't see players moving around because you ideally have your nine players optimized to be playing at the best positional lineup, so the only reason to make someone staying in the game switch positions is because someone coming in the game changes that optimization. I'm pretty sure there was a Phillies game a few years ago where they had a pitcher in left field and then he came in to pitch and the other pitcher went to left.
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Aug 28, 2014 22:40
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As long as they aren't completely removed from a game a player can move to any position on the field. Tony Sipp and Andrew Cashner did it this year for the Astros and Padres respectively (although Cashner ended up getting removed anyway instead of coming back in)
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Aug 28, 2014 23:15
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Technically I don't think anyone even has an "assigned" position. Everyone is just a fielder. That they tend to be arranged as they are is optimization and tradition. You could have everyone come stand around in the infield and leave the outfield empty if you wanted. You could have the catcher and right fielder trade places. I'm not sure if you could have 1b and pitcher flip-flop at will though, because it seems like there's definitely rules revolving around pitching changes, although they may be specifically about calling pitchers in from the bullpen.
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Aug 28, 2014 23:16
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Technically I don't think anyone even has an "assigned" position. Everyone is just a fielder. That they tend to be arranged as they are is optimization and tradition. You could have everyone come stand around in the infield and leave the outfield empty if you wanted. You could have the catcher and right fielder trade places. The assigned positions are needed for official scoring. The Blue Jays used Brett Lawrie in the shift a lot (which ended up breaking a lot of defensive stats because he was making physically impossible plays) but he was still credited as a 3B
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Aug 28, 2014 23:17
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