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SuperKlaus posted:Solano and Stanislaus Counties shutting down courts at noon (marches planned at them). I don't know anything, I'm just a lawyer, so what I hears about the courts I posts. I have jury duty in Stanislaus county next week 
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Jun 2, 2020 19:22
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droll posted:Do you think shutting down with no clear reopen date is the same as shutting down for 1 public holiday which has been known for decades in advance? On the other hand, we shut courts down for natural disasters and the like. If there's a fire or an earthquake, nobody would expect the court to be in session. If there are riots and protests, it's not exactly out of the question for courts to shut down temporarily as well; few people would want to go to jury duty and then get out of court in the middle of a riot.
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Jun 2, 2020 19:23
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Oh good now they can arrest protestors, charge them and let them sit in buses for days/weeks until the court re-opens. Great idea!
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Jun 2, 2020 19:27
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droll posted:Oh good now they can arrest protestors, charge them and let them sit in buses for days/weeks until the court re-opens. Great idea! Don't they have to fill out the arrest paperwork and then release them until their court date? Now that cash bail is abolished they don't even have to pay anything, am I wrong?
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Jun 2, 2020 19:34
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Don't they have to fill out the arrest paperwork and then release them until their court date? Now that cash bail is abolished they don't even have to pay anything, am I wrong? the abolition of cash bail is now one of the ballot props this november
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Jun 2, 2020 19:38
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Also who said anything about days or weeks? The post said they were closing the courts at noon due to protests, not that they were closing them indefinitely. If they have to they can transport people to neighboring cities to go to those courts? And the argument here isn't about whether it's cool and good to do, it's whether it's "unconstitutional."
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Jun 2, 2020 19:39
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Yeah I would say that delaying trial for a growing number of prisoners by even a day during a pandemic is bad. But maybe you're right now is a good time as ever to be really tough on crime instead of releasing people until their day in court.
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Jun 2, 2020 19:39
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Yeah I would say that delaying trial for a growing number of prisoners by even a day during a pandemic is bad. But maybe you're right now is a good time as ever to be really tough on crime instead of releasing people until their day in court. I said nothing of the sort, goddamn. Like seriously, why is it I can't challenge a statement that is probably factually incorrect without being accused of siding with the cops or some loving thing?
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Jun 2, 2020 19:41
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Leperflesh posted:And the argument here isn't about whether it's cool and good to do, it's whether it's "unconstitutional." Since it seems like all you ever do, please go open wikipedia in a tab. In the search bar type "6th amendment"
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Jun 2, 2020 19:42
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:the abolition of cash bail is now one of the ballot props this november What, really? poo poo, I had no idea the law got neutered like that.
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Jun 2, 2020 19:43
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Since it seems like all you ever do, please go open wikipedia in a tab. In the search bar type "6th amendment" Here why don't you read this actual discussion in the stanford law review http://www.stanfordlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/04/68_Stan._L._Rev._897_-_Saetveit.pdf Triviality of closure length is a factor. So is reason. It's not just a straightforward "courts must be open 24/7 or else 6th amendment is violated. And for the record, since apparently this is required: I agree it's bad to close the courts and I do not think people should be held without access to the courts for any length of time. I just disagree that this is unequivocally unconstitutional, and actually it'd be absurd to hold the simple closure of a court building for any reason (like, it's literally on fire? There's been an earthquake? etc.) automatically means the constitution has been violated. That's absurd.
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Jun 2, 2020 19:50
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Cup Runneth Over posted:What, really? poo poo, I had no idea the law got neutered like that. yeah it sucks, and i'm not liking the polling on it or that the funding in support of keeping cash bail is like 2:1 but on the criminal justice reform bright side at least they got rid of most of the felony murder rule last year, where now you have to actually kill someone to be charged with murder (as opposed to, say, the cops shooting at you during a traffic stop and killing a bystander)
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Jun 2, 2020 19:51
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The instant closure is only for this afternoon. Probably. In Solano and Stanislaus, at least. And I'd note the courts were closed for weeks due to COVID (with some variation about what "closed" means county by county). I think it is also very important to note that during the COVID closures criminal trial activities continued (around where I am, disclaimer again that I don't have an ear to every one of this state's many counties). Today's closures are very unlikely to infringe on any criminal case rights.
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Jun 2, 2020 19:51
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Cup Runneth Over posted:What, really? poo poo, I had no idea the law got neutered like that. The whole thing has been a shitshow. A lot of groups like the ACLU that initially supported the bail reform soured on SB10 when it became clear the new system would be "let an opaque algorithm decide if you have to stay in jail" surprise surprise, the algorithm is also racist https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/New-snag-in-effort-to-abolish-cash-bail-risk-15081205.php
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Jun 2, 2020 19:58
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Are there bay area community bail funds? Any for the south bay specifically? http://sv-dsa.org/bailfund is collecting donations. Haven't seen many links to other options - the ARC bail fund is closed to new donations and is redirecting, and it looks like most other options in the area are specifically only for immigration/ICE (not that that isn't really important too).
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Jun 2, 2020 20:03
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Leperflesh posted:Here why don't you read this actual discussion in the stanford law review I guess it comes down to whether you think closing courthouses (or in another example, covid test centers) is necessary for public safety or an obvious reprisal against protestors and the underclass by those in power.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:15
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Hey ya goofs, a quick skim over that law review article suggests it is about trials being closed to the public and hence violations of the right to public trial, not courthouse closures for emergencies. Ya goofs.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:22
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Arraignments are usually done first thing in the morning, at least in the places I worked around the Sacramento area, so an afternoon closure shouldn't cause too much havoc there. Don't know if that's universal across the state, though. And people locked up for protesting activities are probably all getting released on OR unless they have a ton of priors.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:24
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Yes those things are also probably true (they are for every NorCal county I've worked). The 8:30 calendar in many criminal departments is arraign-o-rama and not everybody gets thrown in a cell to rot until arraignment.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:30
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Class Warcraft posted:The whole thing has been a shitshow. A lot of groups like the ACLU that initially supported the bail reform soured on SB10 when it became clear the new system would be "let an opaque algorithm decide if you have to stay in jail" "The algorithm is racist" might as well be the Silicon Valley tagline these days.
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Jun 2, 2020 20:30
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Hearing that a SJ councilmember just referred to the protests as a "race war".
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Jun 2, 2020 21:12
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Mitsuo posted:Hearing that a SJ councilmember just referred to the protests as a "race war". https://twitter.com/SV_DSA/status/1267905222946390017
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Jun 2, 2020 21:23
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:I guess it comes down to whether you think closing courthouses (or in another example, covid test centers) is necessary for public safety or an obvious reprisal against protestors and the underclass by those in power. Yeah, I'm not sure whether, in the case of the people vs. the superior court of santa clara or whatever, the 9th circuit court (or whoever) would consider the idea that whoever decided to close a court for an afternoon was just somehow exacting revenge on arrested protesters, or whatever we're speculating is the "real motive" behind closing. SuperKlaus posted:Hey ya goofs, a quick skim over that law review article suggests it is about trials being closed to the public and hence violations of the right to public trial, not courthouse closures for emergencies. Ya goofs. you're right, lol. They're both parts of the 6th amendment and "closed" in the section on page 16 of the PDF at first really seemed to mean closing the court for business (such as for a recess), not closing it to the public. I can't find a discussion addressing the temporary shutting down of a courthouse, as opposed to a courtroom (to spectators), as being a 6th amendment issue at all. I think I'll ask the lawyers in the law thread and report back on it. It's going to be unquestionably not a constitutional problem.
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Jun 2, 2020 21:35
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And now the SJ chief of police is implying anyone staying out after 8:30 is planning violence because they were overheard planning escape routes
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Jun 2, 2020 21:59
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Oh that's great. Yeah. "The cops might try to murder us at our peaceful protest, we should plan how to get away when they do" translates into conspiracy.
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Jun 2, 2020 22:02
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Leperflesh posted:Oh that's great. Yeah. "The cops might try to murder us at our peaceful protest, we should plan how to get away when they do" translates into conspiracy. Charging these protestors with conspiracy to commit!
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Jun 2, 2020 22:06
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Plotting your peaceful protest to optimally deliver your message of racial equity is absolutely a violent act against the fascist police state so get ready for those RICO charges.
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Jun 2, 2020 22:11
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Well keep in mind we live in a country now where you have to tell the authorities when and where you plan to hold your peaceful protests in advance, and get permits, or else you're automatically unlawfully assembling and are fair game for the cops. That's the reality. The rules of engagement aren't "protect these peaceful lawful citizens", they're from the get-go "these people are here unlawfully, they have no right to be here, they're all criminals, treat them accordingly." Throw in all the other blanket bullshit charges cops use like "resisting arrest" for having the temerity to protect yourself while being savagely beaten, and that's where we're at: the police are set up to be at war with people on the street no matter what. It's right to blame the cops for their racist murderous bullshit, but we have to also blame the politicians that created this insane situation too. "Free speech zones" my rear end.
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Jun 2, 2020 22:20
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https://twitter.com/SV_DSA/status/1267938304667684864 (Jimenez = a council member, Garcia = chief of police)
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Jun 2, 2020 22:57
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Leperflesh posted:I said nothing of the sort, goddamn. Hmmm, that sounds like something a person siding with the cops would say.  ACAB, and the state and the courts will do everything they can to gently caress over and defang activists and resist any real positive change, whatever they say the reasoning is.
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Jun 2, 2020 23:36
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Mitsuo posted:Hearing that a SJ councilmember just referred to the protests as a "race war". i read it as the protests being a response to the ongoing race war that institutions have been waging against black people for the audacity of not being slaves anymore
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Jun 2, 2020 23:46
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Here's a list of orgs asking for donations for bail funds and other purposes related to the ongoing protests, from USPOL: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CjZMORRVuv-I-qo4B0YfmOTqIOa3GUS207t5iuLZmyA/preview?pru=AAABcppW5EE*NCD-Xvp4svwD2VBjitctAg It's a nationwide list, but there are specific orgs listed for LA, San Diego, OC, Compton, Oakland, San Jose, and for the bay area in general.
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Jun 3, 2020 03:44
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Well, looks like Santa Clara city ended their curfew, Palo Alto started one, and San Jose shortened theirs to end Thursday morning.
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Jun 3, 2020 06:58
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Mitsuo posted:Well, looks like Santa Clara city ended their curfew, Palo Alto started one, and San Jose shortened theirs to end Thursday morning. LA is probably ending its curfew tomorrow or friday, but not before our chief had to find a way to work an implicit threat into the announcement.
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Jun 3, 2020 20:18
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Contra Costa County has a county-wide curfew that started yesterday, after extremely small and minor damage was done in Walnut Creek and Pleasant Hill. It runs 8pm to 5am. https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2020/06/02/contra-costa-county-imposes-8-p-m-curfew-in-wake-of-george-floyd-protest-violence/ It is in effect until further notice. Per that article, Pittsburgh upped the ante by imposing a six PM curfew which is frankly absurd. Alameda County also has a countywide curfew: 8 to 5, until further notice. Their curfew explicitly excuses people experiencing homelessness, which is... more than I expected really.
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Jun 3, 2020 20:27
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Leperflesh posted:Contra Costa County has a county-wide curfew that started yesterday, after extremely small and minor damage was done in Walnut Creek and Pleasant Hill. It runs 8pm to 5am. Alameda County has a Health Care for the Homeless Program that is staffed by activists with decades of experience.
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Jun 3, 2020 20:51
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Leperflesh posted:Per that article, Pittsburgh upped the ante by imposing a six PM curfew which is frankly absurd. Probably because Antioch has theirs at 6 also. It wouldn't make much sense for those two neighboring cities to have different times
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Jun 3, 2020 21:00
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Downtown Long Beach was 1pm the last couple of days
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Jun 3, 2020 21:18
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Probably because Antioch has theirs at 6 also. It wouldn't make much sense for those two neighboring cities to have different times Sure I guess. Given that sunset is at 8pm today, though, I think an eariler curfew is excessive. People need to get outside and exercise after work, people need to get groceries, and it's not like things are different at 7pm than they are at 5pm in terms of controlling riots. Goodpancakes posted:Downtown Long Beach was 1pm the last couple of days And that's just straight up criminalizing protesting.
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Jun 3, 2020 21:20
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All curfews exist simply as an excuse for police to brutalize anyone they encounter without needing any of their normal pretense.
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Jun 3, 2020 21:42
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