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Just found out one of the teenage accomplices in Dean Corll's Houston Mass Murders died of COVID.
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Sep 3, 2020 17:02
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BrianRx posted:This is so loving bad. I had to take a minute to calm down after reading it, and it's just a Wikipedia page. I cannot believe how long he was active. He got caught like 80% of the time he did it. He wasn't at all clever or subtle in committing the attacks yet he was able to create a complicated code for his journal, so he wasn't a dummy. He was like a robot that was programmed to do one terrible, horrible thing, and he did it over and over until someone finally was like "well seven kids was stretching it, but eight is just too many" and actually put him in jail for life. Reading this article is just completely baffling and nauseating, he just keeps attempting to murder children and almost always getting a light sentence for it. He was the last person seen with a missing child and it took police 3 years to search his house. Trying to summarize the timeline here and it's completely insane: 1975: At the age of 18, caught in the act while sexually assaulting and nearly killing an 8-year-old boy, while impersonating a police officer. 1 year probation. 1976: Caught after assaulting and nearly killing a 9-year-old girl, while impersonating a police officer. No punishment listed(?), not reported to his parole officer. 1977: Tried to kill two children while impersonating an FBI agent, caught with one of them in his trunk after the other was left for dead. 18-20 years in prison for attempted murder. 1977-1991: While in prison, told his psychiatrists that he fantasizes about killing and eating children. Released after a judge ruled that the state had failed to prove that he was dangerous. 1991: One month after his release, tried to murder a 7-year-old boy. Probation. 1996: Suspected of kidnapping and killing a 10-year-old boy who disappeared after last being seen near him. Not arrested. 1999: Arrested after impersonating a police officer. When police searched his house, they found child bone fragments, a different child’s hair caught inside a meat grinder, a coded list of victims' names, and recipes for ways to cook children. Guests recalled eating strange-tasting meat at his house in the months after the 1996 disappearance. The subsequent investigation tied him to additional assaults and disappearances in 1973, 1974, 1997, and 1999. Sentenced to 130 years in prison and died in 2008. The paragraph about the 1991 assault in particular reads like a sick joke. quote:On August 9, 1991, just a month after being released from Bridgewater State Hospital, Bar-Jonah observed a seven-year-old boy sitting alone in a car outside of a post office in Oxford, Massachusetts. Bar-Jonah, who weighed 275 pounds (125 kg) at the time, entered the vehicle and sat on the boy, thrusting his mass atop the boy's fragile chest. Some witnesses, along with the boy's mother, observed the event and ran to the boy's rescue, causing Bar-Jonah to flee. An officer recognized Bar-Jonah's description from over fifteen years earlier, and he was later arrested for the attack. At first, Bar-Jonah claimed that he entered the car to get out of the rain, but later admitted that he intended to kill the boy. For the attack, Bar-Jonah was sentenced to probation in Montana.[4]
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Sep 3, 2020 20:44
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Hate to tell you this but no one cared about rape in the 70s.
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Sep 3, 2020 20:48
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Call me naive but I'd like to think that people actually did look down on luring kids into your car and strangling them in the 70s.
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Sep 3, 2020 20:58
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Pick posted:Hate to tell you this but no one cared about rape in the 70s.
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Sep 3, 2020 21:59
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His victims weren't people living on the margins, like prostitutes or runaways, nor were they members of marginalized communities, like people of color or even women in general. They were white kids. EVERYONE cares about missing white kids.
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Sep 3, 2020 22:08
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If you read about enough of these guys it's sadly a common thread. They'll have tons of assaults in their past with a slap on the wrist or relatively short sentences (or get released early from longer sentences).
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Sep 3, 2020 23:37
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He was so sure of himself he would just try to crush kids in broad daylight, in front of their parents and neighbors windows loving nuts
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Sep 3, 2020 23:50
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Much like how the much-maligned temperance movement was predicated mostly on wanting to reduce domestic violence (a common pastime of the era being getting drunk and beating the poo poo out of your wife), many of our sadly excessive and misapplied "tough on crime" policies were based on people being really tired of this kind of poo poo. Sadly the movement was appropriated to oppress minorities.
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Sep 3, 2020 23:55
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Van Kraken posted:Call me naive but I'd like to think that people actually did look down on luring kids into your car and strangling them in the 70s. He wasn't even charged for molesting the kid he kidnapped. Edit: on phone so had to look up the name. Kenneth Parnell, kidnapped Steven Stayner in 1973, got out of prison after 5 years, got convicted in the early 2000s of trying to buy a child. PetraCore has a new favorite as of 23:59 on Sep 3, 2020 |
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Sep 3, 2020 23:56
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PetraCore posted:the prosecutors reportedly had a policy of never charging people for molesting children, so nothing was ever done. Ah sensible, not monstrous or suspicious
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Sep 4, 2020 00:08
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Groovelord Neato posted:Just found out one of the teenage accomplices in Dean Corll's Houston Mass Murders died of COVID. Huh, every cloud does have a silver lining.
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Sep 4, 2020 00:39
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Serves me right for having even the slightest amount of faith in humanity 
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Sep 4, 2020 00:42
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InediblePenguin posted:people are idiots, as all the rest of 2020 has more than amply illustrated to anyone who was in doubt after all of history running up to it Truth.
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Sep 4, 2020 00:44
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We recently had a case where a guy beat a kid with a crowbar, impregnated a 12 year old, beat another woman so badly for so long that she took to wearing a burka to hide her injuries (these are edited highlights of years of abuse that the authorities knew about and gave him repeated slaps on the wrist for), and only got serious time after police found the corpses of two women in his freezer after a check on his welfare. A friend who's a social worker has a caseload full of serious repeat offenders that nothing will be done about as long as they stay just the right side of murder, because if society admits monsters exist then that means something is wrong with society and/or money must be spent, and those things just can't happen.
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Sep 4, 2020 06:09
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People right now call the cops after being robbed, assaulted and raped, and get shrugs and annoyed dismissal. It's not what the cops see their job as to deal with.
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Sep 4, 2020 06:48
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the police exist to protect CAPITAL. human beings aren't MONEY so who the gently caress would care about them amiright
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Sep 4, 2020 06:55
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PetraCore posted:The latest Casefile episode sort of disproves that. Relevant context: guy kidnaps 7 year old and bounces around california posing as the boy's father for 7 years before the boy escapes after a 5 year old is kidnapped, bringing the 5 year old to a police station. Multiple children in this 7 year span reported being sexually assaulted by the man to police, but the prosecutors reportedly had a policy of never charging people for molesting children, so nothing was ever done. I relearned about this listening to casefile, I remember watching the made for TV drama about this case in the late 80s, "I know my name is Steven" it only stuck in my memory because I shared the name with the character, and the fact that my mum repeatedly drummed it into me that I should never talk to strangers or I'd end up like other Steven. Now for years I thought this was a fictional drama about a guy just wanting his own family, either my 6 year old brain didn't pick up on it or they certainly glossed over the fact he was a gnarly rapist pos. Mystery Steve has a new favorite as of 07:27 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 07:25
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The Woman Without a Face The Phantom of Heilbronn, often alternatively referred to as the "Woman Without a Face", was a hypothesized unknown female serial killer whose existence was inferred from DNA evidence found at numerous crime scenes in Austria, France and Germany from 1993 to 2009. The six murders among these included that of police officer Michèle Kiesewetter, in Heilbronn, Germany on 25 April 2007.
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Sep 4, 2020 08:46
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Inceltown posted:The Woman Without a Face you kinda buried the lede there quote:"In late March 2009, investigators concluded that the "Phantom" criminal did not exist, and the DNA recovered at the crime scenes had already been present on the cotton swabs used for collecting DNA samples; they belonged to a woman who worked at the factory where they were made."
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Sep 4, 2020 09:07
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Necrothatcher posted:you kinda buried the lede there That one was deliberate to add a bit of levity to the thread.
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Sep 4, 2020 09:17
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The unnerving thing about that is definitely that DNA evidence is nowhere near infallible but jurys love that poo poo.
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Sep 4, 2020 09:25
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Juries and prosecutors love CSI even if it’s bullshit
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Sep 4, 2020 11:03
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Mystery Steve posted:I relearned about this listening to casefile, I remember watching the made for TV drama about this case in the late 80s, "I know my name is Steven" it only stuck in my memory because I shared the name with the character, and the fact that my mum repeatedly drummed it into me that I should never talk to strangers or I'd end up like other Steven. No, I remember seeing that too. It isn't like super explicit what he's doing but you get an outside shot of the house/trailer (I forget) and hear the boy crying out. They don't hide what he did. I was a young kid in the early 80s and I remember that 'child molestation happens and is bad, actually' was only just becoming like, a thing publically talked about. In earlier times (in the UK at least) it was more, keep the kids away from creepy Uncle Joe. But you wouldn't just not invite Uncle Joe, that would be rude. I remember a lot of new teaching coming out around 'you can say no to adults' and such.
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Sep 4, 2020 12:05
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HopperUK posted:No, I remember seeing that too. It isn't like super explicit what he's doing but you get an outside shot of the house/trailer (I forget) and hear the boy crying out. They don't hide what he did. I will never get over the time my dad explained to me - during the height of the UK pedo panic in the early 2000s (ironically before all the info about the actual pedos in every part of the establishment started becoming public) - that of course they still had pedos in the 40s and 50s, but you just kind of knew who they were and avoided them. For instance, his next door neighbour for a while was a "dodgy bloke" (his words) who everyone knew was too interested in young teenage boys. But he had a really great trainset so my dad and his friends hung out at his house anyway, with his mum's permission. When I expressed incredulity, my dad's response was "well, everyone knew to watch out for him and anyway, I knew how to fight so I'd have killed him if he touched me." On the one hand, yeah I guess he did know how to fight, he was a dirty kneed 50's urchin in a post-war slum. On the other hand, what the actual christ, dad. small ghost has a new favorite as of 13:28 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 13:25
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Aphex- posted:The unnerving thing about that is definitely that DNA evidence is nowhere near infallible but jurys love that poo poo. Yeah Exhibit A on Netflix was a helluva ride.
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Sep 4, 2020 13:53
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small ghost posted:I will never get over the time my dad explained to me - during the height of the UK pedo panic in the early 2000s (ironically before all the info about the actual pedos in every part of the establishment started becoming public) - that of course they still had pedos in the 40s and 50s, but you just kind of knew who they were and avoided them. For instance, his next door neighbour for a while was a "dodgy bloke" (his words) who everyone knew was too interested in young teenage boys. But he had a really great trainset so my dad and his friends hung out at his house anyway, with his mum's permission. When I expressed incredulity, my dad's response was "well, everyone knew to watch out for him and anyway, I knew how to fight so I'd have killed him if he touched me." I really get the impression it wasn't about actually stopping pedophiles from molesting kids but making a moderate effort that it wasn't your kid they molested.
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Sep 4, 2020 14:44
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For all that it is incredibly hosed up now, it really is important not to ignore the fact that this is actually better. The current situation is literally much better than it was.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:00
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There's arguments that the main effect of the pedo panic is that it's made it harder for non-practicing paedophiles to get professional help, because instead of being known as 'that dodgy bloke you've got to watch out for but bascally harmless if you do' they get lynch mobs showing up. The Savilles and Epsteins on the other hand got to carry on as normal.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:02
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What's the actual evidence for that? Literally, what evidence at all? You just heard that in many precincts, child molestation was so main stream that they didn't even prosecute it. Do you think it made criminals clever and then able to molest more children? These people aren't clever. And 99% of the time, the neighbors don't say oh my God, I can't believe it was him. They say, yeah, totally, I believe it because he was a loving weird creep. Look at the people who knew the Golden State killer, literally nobody was surprised.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:03
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Also, what's their incentive to seek help when it's basically decriminalized and everyone turns a blind eye to it? If anything, people are a lot less likely to seek help when it has tacit social approval.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:07
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Pick posted:Look at the people who knew the Golden State killer, literally nobody was surprised. um they seemed pretty surprised to me
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Sep 4, 2020 16:12
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Mystery Steve posted:I relearned about this listening to casefile, I remember watching the made for TV drama about this case in the late 80s, "I know my name is Steven" it only stuck in my memory because I shared the name with the character, and the fact that my mum repeatedly drummed it into me that I should never talk to strangers or I'd end up like other Steven.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:36
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Pick posted:Also, what's their incentive to seek help when it's basically decriminalized and everyone turns a blind eye to it? If anything, people are a lot less likely to seek help when it has tacit social approval. I believe pedophilic urges are an involuntary miswiring in the brain or thought processes, I believe there's a difference between that and actually molesting a kid, but I also believe the involuntary, intrusive nature means it's a bad idea for people to try to just bootstrap themselves into dealing with it. By all means, criminalize the actions and not the thoughts, but also acknowledge that some people don't get to be left in close contact with children.
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Sep 4, 2020 16:46
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Mystery Steve posted:I relearned about this listening to casefile, I remember watching the made for TV drama about this case in the late 80s, "I know my name is Steven" it only stuck in my memory because I shared the name with the character, and the fact that my mum repeatedly drummed it into me that I should never talk to strangers or I'd end up like other Steven.
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Sep 4, 2020 17:12
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The one upside to Steven dying at a super young age in a motorcycle wreck was he wasn't alive for this. Groovelord Neato has a new favorite as of 17:48 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 17:20
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PetraCore posted:Right, there shouldn't be any punishment for going 'hey I have these thoughts and urges I've never acted on, please help me', and tbh as a survivor I think there should be somewhat lighter punishment for someone who actually turns themselves in and willingly participates in court mandated services even if they've done something. But the first part of getting people to get professional help is making it clear that it's not something you can just 'deal with' by hanging around staring at kids and being the 'dodgy uncle'. there wasn't really a way to professionally help pedophiles in historic eras either. like in the dodgy bloke anecdote, i dont know if people so much as turned a blind eye as maintained a socially known boundary with the dude without hounding him out of the community. a difference between hesitant acceptance versus neglectful approval i think in the absence of a cure, it's better at least for pedophiles to be out in the open where they can be monitored. like "oh yeah, that's Pedo Tom, great dancer, just don't let him have any unsupervised access to children on account of his name is Pedo Tom" a coworker of mine recently got busted for child porn, and he's the exact kind of soft meek nerd who will be obliterated in prison. like the police really should have done him a favor and just shot him right there. definitely a worst case scenario for all involved, that he was able to offend in the shadows until he picked up an effective death sentence Mr. Fall Down Terror has a new favorite as of 17:44 on Sep 4, 2020 |
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Sep 4, 2020 17:41
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AFAIK there's still not really an effective way to help them
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Sep 4, 2020 17:56
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christmas boots posted:AFAIK there's still not really an effective way to help them One of my friends works for the cyber crimes unit of a government agency and always talks about how they're trying to find ways to help/prevent/identify pedophiles before they act and I guess there's tons of ideas and none of them seem to ever work. She's got some.....not so great stories from her job.
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Sep 4, 2020 18:46
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christmas boots posted:AFAIK there's still not really an effective way to help them Like I don't want to go 'we have to isolate them into decent living spaces that aren't part of a community where they can have any access to children' but sometimes that sorta seems like the best solution???
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Sep 4, 2020 19:39
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