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Okay I found the guy I mentioned who got acquitted of murdering his wife, but who did it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Ignatow My coworker knew the guy who found some evidence, jewelry and photographs of the crime stashed in a vent. At least they got him for perjury! Yay?
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Apr 9, 2021 15:26
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Groovelord Neato posted:This is why we need to ban guns. No, we need to ban idiots.
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Apr 9, 2021 15:45
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Cat Army
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MightyJoe36 posted:No, we need to ban idiots.
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Apr 9, 2021 15:53
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Huh, well, I didn't mean to start this trend, but if we're talking about our own murderous connections, let me introduce you to Rabbi Fred Neulander. He was a reform rabbi in the pleasant town of Cherry Hill, NJ, a mostly upper-middle class commuter town just across the state line from Philadelphia. Cherry Hill has a fairly large Jewish population, and after some time as as the assistant rabbi at Temple Emanuel, Rabbi Neulander moved on and, with some support from existing congregants, he founded a new synagogue, Congregation M'kor Shalom (literally "source of peace") in 1974. The new congregation moved around a few times before, in 1990, settling down where they are still located on the eastern, most affluent side of Cherry Hill. It was a thriving congregation, typical for the area, with Hebrew School classes for kids, brotherhood and sisterhood programs for adults, and a sense of community, all under Rabbi Neulander's spiritual leadership. I grew up attending services at Temple Emanuel, but know multiple people for whom Rabbi Neulander was a major part of their lives. A friends' parents were married by him, and he officiated her naming ceremony a week after she was born. On November 1st, 1994, Fred Neulander arrived home one evening after a day of work at the synagogue and found his wife, Carol Neulander, lying on the floor and covered in blood. He immediately ran to the phone and called 911. Horrifically, their son Matthew was a local EMT, and was one of the first responders on scene; the rest of his crew made him wait outside while they went in to assess the scene, and then kept him out. Carol had been beaten to death with a metal pipe. She was the owner of a successful bakery, and at first glance, the crime was as inexplicable as it was shocking. Fred and Carol were respected members of the community. Cherry Hill is a safe town with little violent crime. There was no sign of forced entry, though there were apparently signs of a struggle. Neither Fred nor Carol had any known enemies, and police initially suspected burglary as a motive. Carol's bakery had been robbed the month prior, and since then she had started taking home the day's earnings rather than leaving them unattended at the store overnight. Within days, though, the police began to see the façade crack. There were credible rumors that Fred had been having an affair with local radio host Elaine Soncini. By February 1995, Fred resigned as senior rabbi at M'kor Shalom, saying only that he had committed "moral indiscretions" and asking his former congregants not to inquire further. Within a few months, the police had developed the theory that Carol had been killed by a hitman, who came to the house under the guise of delivering a letter for Fred. They suspected that Fred may have hired someone to do so. In police interviews, Soncini confirmed that she had sought counseling from Fred after the death of her husband, and that had turned into a two-year affair. She said she pressured Fred to get divorced but he felt doing so would undermine his moral authority as a rabbi. He told her, in autumn of 1994, that their situation would be resolved by Soncini's birthday in December. After the police named Fred as a suspect, Soncini ended their relationship for good. Beyond that, though, the police had no evidence with which they could do much of anything. Also in February 1995, after Fred had resigned, a reporter for the Philadelphia Inquirer was contacted by a Cherry Hill man named Leonard Jenoff, who said he was a private investigator and Fred had hired him to help find who was responsible for Carol's death. He was a questionable source -- he had no office and at times he claimed to have been Special Forces in Vietnam (he was a cook in the Army reserves who never left the country), to have been friends with Ronald Reagan, and to have served in the CIA. He was a recovered alcoholic who was a congregant at M'kor Shalom, and he and the reporter began to speak more and more openly. In November 1996, Jenoff invited the reporter over to his "office," which was just his bedroom in his apartment. He had something to say, but he was conflicted. He said that Fred owed him thousands of dollars for his investigative services, but he still felt loyal to the rabbi, who had helped him through personal crises. But he said that Fred had asked Jenoff if his roommate, a pharmacist, could teach him how what drugs to use to kill a person discretely. Jenoff was afraid he had been complicit in something bad, but he wasn't ready to talk. He and the reporter stayed in touch. They talked, on and off, for months, and then for years. Fred was arrested in 1998, but freed on bail. Finally, in 2000, six years after the murder, Jenoff came forward with a former roommate, Paul Daniels. They both stated that Neulander had paid Jenoff to arrange the murder, promising $30,000. Jenoff paid Daniels $7,500 to commit the crime, but both men were present. Fred's bail was revoked and he was charged with capital murder and conspiracy. The trial was a local media circus, and in November 2001, a mistrial was declared. In 2002, a retrial was held in a different county. Ultimately, Daniels and Jenoff were both sentenced to 23 years after guilty pleas. Neulander was convicted of capital murder. New Jersey still had the death penalty on the table in 2002, but the jury did not suggest it. The judge sentenced Fred Neulander to 30 years to life, and he remains incarcerated at New Jersey State Prison in Trenton. He still maintains his innocence but has exhausted all appeals. My friend's family still has pictures with Neulander from the wedding and my friend's naming ceremony, but they keep those in a box in a closet, separate from other family photos. There are a ton of sources, but largely from local news. Murderpedia has some collected, and the old CourtTV site has been archived with a ton of info. The original wrap-up from the reporter can still be found on the Philadelphia Inquirer's site here.
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Apr 9, 2021 18:34
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Alterian posted:I know it's cliché, but I can't do true crime about kids after I had kids. There was some couple that left a kid in a swing chair for literal days around the time my mom got us a swing chair for our baby. My daughter loved the thing, it was so convenient but I couldn't use it after a few times. It was all I could think about. I ended up giving it away.
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Apr 9, 2021 20:10
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Droogie posted:I recommend a different circle. Well, now I post here, so... On a less murdery note, does anyone have any good historical mysteries since I don't think they have their own thread? Stuff like the Starving of Saqqara (almost certainly not what it's claimed to be IMO) or other strange historical artifacts or discoveries that aren't spun from an aliens standpoint?
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Apr 9, 2021 21:15
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I've mentioned this before, I think, but I once briefly met Todd Kohlhepp through a friend of a friend kinda thing. Wish I could say he left one kinda impression or another, but frankly I wouldn't have even remembered it had he not been caught a'murderin' a year or so later. The friend of a friend I met him through was sleeping with him, though, and I can't help but wonder how badly that scarred them.
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Apr 9, 2021 21:54
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Considering it's seven years old, I'm surprised this thread hasn't split off into one 'True Crime' and one 'History's Mysteries (It Wasn't loving Aliens)' variant. I'm pretty sure the ghost story aficionados have already bailed to their own thread.
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Apr 9, 2021 22:02
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Everett False posted:Considering it's seven years old, I'm surprised this thread hasn't split off into one 'True Crime' and one 'History's Mysteries (It Wasn't loving Aliens)' variant. I'm pretty sure the ghost story aficionados have already bailed to their own thread. There was a more supernatural kinda spin-off if I recall correctly. But like, i kinda like having both eerie historical oddities and true crime stuff in one place, myself. Wouldn't really be mad if they did get split, though
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Apr 9, 2021 22:05
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https://www.dispatch.com/article/20070927/news/309279842 i was working for this university during this and i had interviewed this murderer for a job weeks before he stabbed his father 40 times. ill never forget him because ive never spoken to someone like him before or since. the dude seemed emotionless and totally distant. blank faced. it was just like in a bad b-movie
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Apr 9, 2021 22:19
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Met Scott Peterson a few times. The only takeaway I had before the murder was, “boy, that guy sure does like talking about women”.
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Apr 9, 2021 23:37
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Everett False posted:Considering it's seven years old, I'm surprised this thread hasn't split off into one 'True Crime' and one 'History's Mysteries (It Wasn't loving Aliens)' variant. I'm pretty sure the ghost story aficionados have already bailed to their own thread. The cryptid/conspiracy thread has the latter covered.
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Apr 10, 2021 00:13
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Solice Kirsk posted:One of my old girlfriends started to get more and more unhinged until one day she packed a suitcase and disappeared. No one knows where she is or if she's still alive. I'm assuming not since it's been about sixteen years now. Ohhhhh, I had a similar deal - was engaged in college circa 1994, and she just vanished one day. Nobody knew where she went, and I was absolutely devastated. Took me close to 3 years to start dating again. Few years ago she messages me on loving facebook, she's been across the country since then, married and divorced, has a daughter, and yet can't or won't explain what happened. But I feel bad so let's be friends! I stuck with it for a few days trying to get an answer to what happened, but she never gave anything up so I told her to gently caress off and blocked her. MrMidnight posted:Bitch, leave Knew this was coming, laughing a little too hard, but who cares!
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Apr 10, 2021 00:34
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Fatty Crabcakes posted:Yeah, not gonna happen due to scale. So we ban the things that idiots use to hurt other idiots like you or me. Sadly, there are more guns than people in the United States.
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Apr 10, 2021 02:43
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Okay so now I have more time, I posted the link earlier and information about that dude when I was at work. Okay so I used to live in Louisville, KY and this was a story I heard when I was kid, around the late 90s. I just bring it up because I found out today that my buddy that I work with knows the guy who found the evidence. Mel Ignatow was a total tool who was dating Brenda Schaefer. He liked to beat on her, and she decided to go to the police, as is warranted. Because he was such a despicable rear end in a top hat he hatched a plan to off this girlfriend and asked for the help of another lady he knew, Mary Shore. So in 88 Ignatow made plans with Schaefer for her to bring back some jewellery of his that she had in her possession. Once she was in his car, maybe to drive to his house to return it (?), he drove her to Shore's house where they held her at gunpoint and then tied her up and tortured her. Eventually Ignatow killed her and they buried her in the back of Shore's house, which I think is kind of a forested area if you can imagine. So Schaefer is missing and everybody knows Ignatow did it. The rags around Louisville are running stuff on the crime and it's a big case. Surely he will be convicted right? Well, no. Okay well here's where it gets worse. There was no evidence to link Ignatow to the murder, because ACAB and also maybe he was like kind of sneaky (probably not). The FBI got Shore to wear a wire and then got her with Ignatow on tape saying something sketchy that probably could have been used in a court room. Let me dig up the quote...it is "That place we dug is not shallow. Beside that one area right by where that site is does not have any trees by it," per wikipedia. Well because the case was so publicized in Louisville, they moved it to another county nearby where there was less noise about it. Long story short, Shore kind of screwed up in the court room because Kentuckians are stupid as hell by wearing a miniskirt and giggling and so the jury found Ignatow not guilty. Not enough evidence perhaps and also they're backwards sexists. Flash forward a few years, my coworker's buddy was laying carpet in Ignatow's house which had been sold and he found a little vent underneath. Because of the way the sun was shining he noticed a glint and found (I think he said it was in a ziploc bag) some jewellery and some undeveloped film. Now this is just what he told me but he said he held it up to the light and saw that it was basically snuff photos of Schaefer's murder and took it to the cops. He said he was kind of shook up about it, no poo poo. Because Ignatow was already tried for murder, he couldn't be tried for the same crime twice, but he ended up confessing to the murder and they got him for perjury. He served a few years (not enough) in prison and when he got out he was a pariah around town. He got really sick and wasn't in a good way. He died by being an old sick rear end in a top hat and falling and hitting his head and bleeding out like an animal, crawling for help, which serves him right. My buddy's coworker heard the news and was ecstatic. So raise a glass! This guy's either burning in hell or in the void, either is fine I suppose as long as he went out in a bad way.
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Apr 10, 2021 02:48
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This discussion got me to look up a kid we handled back when I was a mortician. Previously I couldn't find any articles mentioning him at all, but looks like they just arrested and started prosecuting people. There was a belief that his murder was a gang conflict, which was awful for the family trying to get anyone, especially the police, to stop publicly insisting their child was a criminal and silently suggesting he brought it on himself. With the new arrest we finally have a motive: It was a gang hit. Three men decided they needed to murder a high schooler because they saw Facebook photos with what they thought were gang signs and assumed he was a member of a rival gang that did not and does not exist in that area. My boss had to call in a more experienced friend and it took them 8 hours just to get him ready for the beautician. gently caress the world *Add'l angry ranting* Also, the police never would have looked into his death enough for an arrest and didn't give a gently caress when it happened, except it was near an affluent white area which is upset it's now got a Hispanic enclave, and the arrests just happened to happen at the same time the cops were using the specter of foreign gangs to fight a budget cut that would still put them within the top 80 military budgets in the world. Never mind the 40% decrease in violent crime in an area that's already 70% below average. Never mind that they're 36% of the budget, when education is 5% and housing is 2%.
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Apr 10, 2021 04:23
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i must compose posted:Now this is just what he told me but he said he held it up to the light and saw that it was basically snuff photos of Schaefer's murder and took it to the cops. He said he was kind of shook up about it, no poo poo. what I'm sure I've seen episodes of Law & Order where new evidence trumps that?
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Apr 10, 2021 04:53
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Comstar posted:what You would have to somehow overturn the results of the old trial, which would mean demonstrating that there was something wrong with the evidence used in that trial. So if you had brand new evidence that they did it, no dice. But if you find proof that the evidence they used to establish their alibi had been falsified, that can work.
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Apr 10, 2021 05:12
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Yeah there was not any evidence and the star witness wore a skirt and giggled
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Apr 10, 2021 06:07
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IIRC one of my mom's brothers tried to murder one of their parents (I forget which) by pushing them down a staircase, then with a axe in another incident. He got diagnosed with schizophrenia and eventually cut off contact with all but one other brother, and apparently died of natural causes or a overdose (from what I heard there was too much decomp to tell) a few years back. After my dad got out of the Navy he decided to be a cowboy, that only lasted a few years but he ran into the Manson Family a couple times while horse riding. When I was going to college they found two sets of human remains next to the campus in rapid succession. A gas pipeline crew digging up a field found a old Native American skeleton, and then a forestry crew found the remains of a student who'd disappeared several years earlier after an argument with his girlfriend.
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Apr 10, 2021 09:19
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The Lone Badger posted:You would have to somehow overturn the results of the old trial, which would mean demonstrating that there was something wrong with the evidence used in that trial. It could have also been an episode ripped from the headlines about one of the weird technicalities, like pursuing federal charges or like what happened in the Timothy Hennis/Eastburn Family Murders case. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastburn_family_murders It's a little late to gather my thoughts on the actual twisty case, but Hennis was successfully tried and found guilty before then winning an appeal and getting a full acquittal. After almost 20 years, DNA tech reached a point where they felt like they could prove him guilty again but Double Jeopardy applied. But he had been in the military, so they recalled him back into service so that he could be court-martialed. Since military trials are entirely separate.
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Apr 10, 2021 10:36
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subpar anachronism posted:Well, now I post here, so... There’s already a historical fact/story thread in PYF. The more these sorts of threads get split, the less people post in them and this forum is already dying. Please don’t insist on the death of the few interesting threads that get a small number of daily posts. On topic: I grew up around the corner from both Georgia Leah Moses (about one year old than me, best friends with one of my friends since I was 13, although we didn’t know one another at the time) who’s kidnap/murder is still unsolved due to the racism of the police and Polly Klaas (about four years older than me) who’s murder/kidnap was solved. In fifth grade, one of my classmates dads shot him in the head while he was sleeping and then killed himself. As I’ve gotten older, I know a lot more, unfortunately. My parents knew lots of people that died in Jonestown and Harvey Milk. My dad went to school with one of the people murdered by the Zodiac Killer. San Francisco is a weird place.
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Apr 10, 2021 11:43
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MAKE NO BABBYS posted:There’s already a historical fact/story thread in PYF. The more these sorts of threads get split, the less people post in them and this forum is already dying. Please don’t insist on the death of the few interesting threads that get a small number of daily posts. Firstly: lmao, that's dramatic as gently caress. Secondly: I'm specifically interested in the weird, unnerving, strange, or possibly crime-related. Historical fact/story doesn't seem to be the appropriate place for that either.
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Apr 10, 2021 17:47
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I found the Hinterkaifeck murders pretty interesting. Not because they're unsolvable, because I'm fairly certain they wouldn't have been if proper police procedures were followed at all instead of letting the entire town mess with the crime scene. What I find super unsettling is the fact that Viktoria essentially gets blamed a lot imo for her father isolating and molesting her, just because she was an adult when she tried to come forward about ongoing abuse.
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Apr 10, 2021 18:02
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I'm too lazy to search any harder for it, but I was in a band with the sisters of a dude who got got in a drug-related triple homicide in lovely Palm Desert, CA
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Apr 10, 2021 18:16
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Groovelord Neato posted:The cryptid/conspiracy thread has the latter covered. I have that one bookmarked, but it keeps mysteriously disappearing. 
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Apr 10, 2021 18:21
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Highbrow Slick posted:I’ve read every Charley Project entry for California, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington; and I’m working my way through Arizona. This one sticks out to me the most of any I’ve never heard of before in the news or elsewhere. Mostly because there are two conflicting stories that are so wildly different and bizarre that the whole thing reads like a reboot of the movie Fargo or something. This is one of the most baffling things I've ever read, I love it. I like that according to Weber, Iverson's ex-wife apparently ran out of the house screaming for no reason and that Iverson's reaction was mm yeah don't know what that's about, we should drive a few towns over with the big experimental gun I have not yet paid for. Also that Weber's wife told him the police thought he'd kidnapped Iverson and Weber still decided to part ways with him without going to the police to explain that's not what had happened. If Weber's version is true it's genuinely the most farcical thing that I've ever heard of.
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Apr 10, 2021 19:27
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subpar anachronism posted:Firstly: lmao, that's dramatic as gently caress. Secondly: I'm specifically interested in the weird, unnerving, strange, or possibly crime-related. Historical fact/story doesn't seem to be the appropriate place for that either. Not trying to be dramatic, it’s just a bummer when threads that I used to be able to read say, the whole fifteen minutes I was waiting for the train or what have you now get like 1 post a day, especially after they keep getting split up into more and more hyper-specific topics and it sucks. I’d rather read a more robust thread that I occasionally skip a post in because it’s not my cup of tea than have nothing to read or be stuck with brain-melting things like doomscrolling Twitter.
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Apr 10, 2021 21:07
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MAKE NO BABBYS posted:Not trying to be dramatic, it’s just a bummer when threads that I used to be able to read say, the whole fifteen minutes I was waiting for the train or what have you now get like 1 post a day, especially after they keep getting split up into more and more hyper-specific topics and it sucks. I’d rather read a more robust thread that I occasionally skip a post in because it’s not my cup of tea than have nothing to read or be stuck with brain-melting things like doomscrolling Twitter. I wasn't advocating the thread get split, I literally asked stuff be posted here. You're arguing against the wrong person.
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Apr 10, 2021 21:13
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Today I learned there are people who have never used a thermometer or had their temperature taken.
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Apr 10, 2021 21:17
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subpar anachronism posted:Well, now I post here, so... Isntjere anything to the Starving of Saqqara other than it's a weird looking sculpture with a spooky name? AIIRC we know basically nothing about it except it exists and looks kinda creepy to a modern eye.
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Apr 10, 2021 22:36
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Grunch Worldflower posted:Isntjere anything to the Starving of Saqqara other than it's a weird looking sculpture with a spooky name? AIIRC we know basically nothing about it except it exists and looks kinda creepy to a modern eye. Basically it's in a style that's unique from anything found in the period and area it's attributed to, and is unlikely to have actually come from there. a university currently owns it and is supposedly testing it but as far as i can tell nothing specific regarding that has been published.
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Apr 11, 2021 00:20
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I think your example with the statue thing was a bit confusing because to me at least it just sounds like a statue people don't know enough about yet or maybe never will. Not much unnerving about it and probably would fit in just fine with the historical thread. The reaction you got was a bit over the top though because I never got the sense that you wanted to split up the thread? Don't know where that came from.
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Apr 11, 2021 10:38
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Brawnfire posted:There was some couple that left a kid in a swing chair for literal days around the time my mom got us a swing chair for our baby. I had post partum anxiety really bad after my first one. To tie it into the thread, its pretty unnerving to have! More or less I envisioned how my newborn would accidentally die. I'd get flashes of scenarios multiple times a day. The main one was accidentally falling over a railing or slipping down the stairs while carrying him. I didn't realize this was "common" until I read an article about it years later. Post pardum period: very unnerving. Alterian has a new favorite as of 11:40 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 11:37
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The statue is weird and cool even if it's a fake. Surprised I'd never heard of it
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Apr 11, 2021 11:37
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Sarcopenia posted:I think your example with the statue thing was a bit confusing because to me at least it just sounds like a statue people don't know enough about yet or maybe never will. Not much unnerving about it and probably would fit in just fine with the historical thread. The reaction you got was a bit over the top though because I never got the sense that you wanted to split up the thread? Don't know where that came from. Yeah, fair on the mysteriousness - there are definitely stranger ones but I just went for one off the top of my head!
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Apr 11, 2021 14:15
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Alterian posted:I had post partum anxiety really bad after my first one. To tie it into the thread, its pretty unnerving to have! More or less I envisioned how my newborn would accidentally die. I'd get flashes of scenarios multiple times a day. The main one was accidentally falling over a railing or slipping down the stairs while carrying him. I didn't realize this was "common" until I read an article about it years later. So, so much of this. I can't believe the scenarios my brain comes up with and I can almost see how someone with their wiring mixed up might go ahead and DO those things instead of avoiding them. Like, sometimes these visions are so real it's like it's happening and my heart rate spikes and I have to set my baby down in a perfect cloud of light and ambience; if I were convinced it were visions from God, well, who knows what I may think of as a proper course of action?
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Apr 11, 2021 15:33
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https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1381279885214240772?s=19
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Apr 11, 2021 17:23
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladbeck_hostage_crisis If you’re a listener to Casefile, listen to the episode, otherwise read the most loving  event I’ve EVER loving heard of
teen witch has a new favorite as of 19:09 on Apr 11, 2021 |
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Apr 11, 2021 19:03
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teen witch posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladbeck_hostage_crisis The cops had no such excuse.
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Apr 11, 2021 19:40
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