Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
Relevant to the WM3 bitching: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenton_Butler_case

Basically, the case went to trial with both a confession from the defendant AND an a witness identification (specifically, the husband of the woman murdered, who was standing three feet away when the murder happened), and a public defender was able to win the case because both were total bullshit. See also the documentary about the case, Murder on a Sunday Morning.

The defendant here had a standard IQ, and his confession was still bullshit. The witness was definitely at the scene, and had no reason to lie, and he was still wrong. The problem with the American justice system is that it relies on notoriously unreliable human beings.

EDIT: And, not Wikipedia, but waaaaaaay more unsettling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF4iFJ-G74o

china bot has a new favorite as of 17:11 on Dec 12, 2014

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
Hope this hasn't been posted yet, as it's the most unnerving thing I can think of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unidentified_murder_victims_in_the_United_States

EDIT: specifically, the composites and reconstructions :gonk:

china bot has a new favorite as of 21:37 on Apr 6, 2015

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

WickedHate posted:

Please, minorities were still being lynched in the streets and in their homes decades after WWII. Germany and Japan were doing that poo poo on a grand scale and in massive events that can be named, and that's the only reason people call them "the bad guys" when in reality nearly every country is just as bad as each other. I'm not sticking up for Japan or Germany, I'm just against framing the Allies as heroic do gooders when they'd also been extermanating and torturing people for their race, religion, sexuality, and mental condition for as long as they existed.

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
I didn't see this anywhere in the thread, but it's worth reposting either way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin

A drilling rig experiences one of the more noteworthy instances of explosive decompression -

wikipedia posted:

Coward, Lucas and Bergersen were exposed to the effects of explosive decompression and died in the positions indicated by the diagram. Subsequent investigation by forensic pathologists determined Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient, violently exploded due to the rapid and massive expansion of internal gases. All of his thoracic and abdominal organs, and even his spine, were ejected, as were all of his limbs. Simultaneously, his remains were expelled through the narrow trunk opening left by the jammed chamber door, less than 60 centimetres (24 in) in diameter. Fragments of his body were found scattered about the rig. One part was even found lying on the rig's derrick, 10 metres (30 ft) directly above the chambers. The deaths of all four divers were most likely instantaneous.

Less unique but equally horrifying: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_Alpha

A repair and a missing permit lead to a catastrophe -

wikipedia posted:

9:52 p.m. The permit for the overhaul was found, but not the other permit stating that the pump must not be started under any circumstances due to the missing safety valve. The valve was in a different location from the pump and therefore the permits were stored in different boxes, as they were sorted by location. None of those present were aware that a vital part of the machine had been removed. The manager assumed from the existing documents that it would be safe to start Pump A. The missing valve was not noticed by anyone, particularly as the metal disc replacing the safety valve was several metres above ground level and obscured by machinery.

wikipedia posted:

12:45 a.m. The entire platform had [slipped into the sea]. Module (A) was all that remained of Piper Alpha.

china bot has a new favorite as of 16:55 on Apr 9, 2015

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
Kids these days are trolling for woods hentai, which is usually placed in a stump before the ritual suicide begins

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
Today's the 57th anniversary of one of Chicago's many child-killing tragedies: the Our Lady of the Angels school fire

Of course, it has been overshadowed by all the other poo poo that we'll be commemorating 57 years from now

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

PYF unnverving article or story: i actually want to die being murdered

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Solice Kirsk posted:

Yeah, I said most. There's always going to be broken people that find killers attractive.

My prostitute ex-roommate had a pen-pal romance (whatever you'd actually call it) with a man convicted of double rape and double murder. So yeah, I agree with this assessment.

E: At the time, she had no license due to being caught manufacturing cocaine.

china bot has a new favorite as of 00:06 on Dec 19, 2015

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
My first episode of Sword and Scale was the one with the teenage murderers' 911 calls, so it was pretty hard for it to shock me after that. The host is definitely afraid of the mentally ill, but it's one of the more reliably interesting podcasts so :shrug:

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
I love Sword and Scale for all the same reasons young me loved Carmageddon 2

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
I've only heard Art Bell's show once, years ago, but the episode entirely revolved around starships being made out of granite, because granite was the only material that could survive long distance space travel

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I just read Dave Cullen's excellent book on Columbine.

Seconded, it really is excellent. Probably the only time I've skipped sleep to finish a book.

I have a pretty intense fear of drowning, so Isaac's Storm by Erik Larson is one of the most terrifying non-fiction books I've ever read. I can't find a substantial excerpt at the moment, but here's a quote from King Vidor that gives you an idea:

King Vidor posted:

I remember now that it seemed as if we were in a bowl looking up toward the level of the sea. As we stood there in the sandy street, my mother and I, I wanted to take my mother's hand and hurry her away. I felt as if the sea was going to break over the edge of the bowl and come pouring down upon us.

e: to clarify, Isaac's Storm is about the 1900 Galveston Hurricane.

china bot has a new favorite as of 21:55 on Feb 17, 2016

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
The Dupont de Ligonnes murders and disappearance

wikipedia posted:

The authorities consider Xavier Dupont de Ligonnes the main witness and the prime suspect in the murder of his wife and four children. After their bodies were discovered buried in the garden of the family home, the police set about searching for him, but he has never been found. According to the prosecutor, Xavier Dupont de Ligonnès’s relatives say he wrote a letter to them explaining that he and his family would be absent as “he was a sort of United States secret agent and had to return to the U.S. as part of a witness protection programme to work in a drugs case.”

china bot has a new favorite as of 04:41 on Feb 18, 2016

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
This one combines cave-diving deaths and alternative theories aplenty!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Ben_McDaniel

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Pigsfeet on Rye posted:

Never go up against a Sicilian when death is on the line either.

Am Sicilian, will vouch for this

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Yeah, this and the Chilean coup d'etat certainly justify some anti-American sentiment

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

YeahTubaMike posted:

Grieving people don't always make perfect sense.

It doesn't help that, in US criminal cases involving third parties, grief sort of gets conflated with expertise. See: brother Halbach in Making a Murderer.

Anyway, I've been reading about the Mt. St. Helens eruption a bunch lately, and I just found this detail:

some website posted:

When Mount St. Helens erupted on May 18, 1980, photographer Robert Landsberg was documenting the changes in the volcano from just a few miles away. Realizing that he couldn’t possibly outrun the approaching ash cloud, he kept shooting for as long as he could before using his body to preserve his film.

He managed to rewind the film back into its case, replace his camera in its bag, put the bag in his backpack, and then lay himself on top of the backpack in an attempt to protect its contents. Seventeen days later, Landsberg’s body was found buried in the ash with his backpack underneath. The film could be developed and has provided geologists with valuable documentation of the historic eruption.



and here's the highest quality one of those I could find

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Crow Jane posted:

Saw another Toynbee tile in the wild today:



super loving jealous right now

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Just noticed that this tile has some bonus text:

toynbee tile posted:

HITMAN FROM VENEZUELA + CUBA FAILED TO MURDER ME TWICE SO THEY SENT A human being CELL TO MURDER MY MOTHER

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

RNG posted:

Seems like the right thread for some Stephen King short stories. I have no idea what this site is, but google turned it up.

The Jaunt

This one's great, but it's longer than you'd think :psypop:

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
PYF: we cannot be trusted to discuss anything correctly

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
Unarmed man killed by Arizona cop cried, begged for life

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

china bot posted:

PYF: we cannot be trusted to discuss anything correctly

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
has someone registered the "caro alive, so what" username yet?

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

doodlebugs posted:

last seconds of the Jonestown Massacre

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5tpQcbyvK0

YouTube autoqueues the full FBI tape of post-suicide Jonestown

china bot has a new favorite as of 21:13 on Apr 15, 2016

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
how about this: you're ALL experts on depression

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Imagined posted:

You don't understand these people. I'm from Oklahoma. I know these people. The Devil is very literally real to them, and so anything that isn't explicitly, overtly pro-Jesus is actively anti-Jesus.

I grew up in Michigan, and the mother of one of my classmates swore up-and-down that she met the devil on Halloween. Not only were her children not allowed to celebrate Halloween, but she pulled them out of classes on Halloween to keep them at home with her

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
Goons gotta goon

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
Based on post history, pookel was going to end up with some kind of custom title, though this one is certainly...lower brow

Has Unsolved.com been brought up here? It's the online archive of Unsolved Mysteries episodes, aka an endless assortment of horrors


Robert Stack posted:

Twenty miles northwest of Cincinnati is the small farming town of Fenald, Ohio. For many years, the town’s main employer was “The Feed Materials Production Center,” also known as N.L.O. Unknown to the public, NLO was actually owned by the Department of Energy. From 1953 to 1989, it was one of the few plants in the United States that secretly processed high-grade uranium for nuclear weapons. Former N.L.O employee Harry Easterling believed the plant was safe:

“When I was hired, they said that it was a low level radiation plant. They told me there was nothing back there that would bother you and to just go on about your business. Don’t tell anybody what you were doing and everything would be fine.”

But conditions at the plant weren’t fine. In the fall of 1984, N.L.O. was rocked by scandal when a factory accident released massive amounts of radioactive smoke into the atmosphere. An investigation later revealed that, over the years, N.L.O. had released more than 200 tons of radioactive dust particles into the air and local water sources. Reporter D.C. Cole investigated the story:

“We had an environmental disaster. I think if you did a survey around the Fernald community now, you would find very few people who trust the government.”

In June of 1984, just a few months before the N.L.O. disaster, one of the plant’s employees, Dave Bocks, died a gruesome death inside the factory. His family was convinced he was murdered, possibly because he was going to blow the whistle on the quantity of radioactivity the plant was releasing.

Dave was hired at N.L.O. as a pipe fitter in 1981, and quickly earned the trust and respect of his co-workers. Dave was divorced, but remained close to his ex-wife and three children. Casey Drake is Dave Bocks’ daughter:

“He was great. He would do anything for us. Kind as can be, loved his children, did his job.”

Dave worked the graveyard shift. On Sunday night at 11:00 PM, he met his rideshare partner and co-worker, Harry Easterling, in the parking lot at a local restaurant as usual:

“Dave got into my truck, we left, had a little conversation on the way to work. He had talked about vacation with his kids and bought a new lunch box for work. Everything seemed to be normal.”

Dave’s job was to inspect and maintain equipment throughout the factory. This included making sure that the safety pumps and dust collectors used in the uranium processing were working properly. Harry realized Dave was aware of what the factory was doing:

“Dave was a fairly quiet guy, but if you worked on a job, and it was high radiation level, Dave would tell you, ‘You know, that particular dust collector is fairly radioactive, so watch yourself,’ or, ‘That pump has a certain kind of acid in it so be careful when you work on it.’”

Only the maintenance crew and security personnel worked the graveyard shift. The production lines were shut down. At midnight, Dave reported to the maintenance room for his assignment. Harry recalls that the night began just like any other:

“Dave opened up his tool box and left his keys and lock on top. He went to one area and I worked on a job at another plant.”

A worker saw Dave and a supervisor in a parked pickup truck. He said Dave and the supervisor seemed to be having a “serious discussion”, but he could not tell what they were talking about. He noted that the windows of the truck were rolled up, even though the weather was hot and humid.

An hour later, the same witness ran into Dave on the factory grounds. He noticed that Dave was walking towards Plant 4, not Plant 8 where he’d been assigned. It was the last time Dave Bocks was seen alive. Later that morning, Harry Easterling became suspicious because he hadn’t seen Dave in hours:

“At approximately 7:00 that morning, we had a safety meeting in the conference room in Plant 4. We showed up for the meeting, but Dave wasn’t there. I walked back over to the maintenance building, put my tools away, and noticed that Dave’s toolbox was still open. I thought he was probably working overtime so I went in, made a few phone calls, but still couldn’t locate him. I went back out and told the security guard at the desk that Dave hadn’t come out, I was going home, and I would meet him the next night at the restaurant.”

At around 7:30 that morning, a furnace operator in Plant 6 told his supervisor that the casings in his oven were covered with a strange, sticky residue. The worker also noticed a strange odor. The supervisor apparently found nothing wrong and told the furnace operator to go back to work.

On the way to his next shift, Harry went to the restaurant to meet Dave as usual. It was Dave’s turn to drive, and his car was already there:

“There wasn’t anything out of the ordinary because he would go pull his car in and go get something to eat or get something to take for lunch and then come back to the car. I leaned up against Dave’s car, and I noticed that the fender was still cold. So I reached over, touched the hood and it was still cold.”

Harry was worried. When he got to work, he reported Dave missing and had a security guard pry open his locker. Inside the plant, an investigation had begun. Plant records show that at 5:15 on the morning Dave disappeared, the temperature in the furnace in Plant 6 had briefly dropped 28 degrees. This sudden change suggested that something “foreign” had been dumped into it. A worker also found what appeared to be piece of bone on the lip of the furnace. The Sheriff’s Department was called in and the furnace was shut down.

It took three days for the molten liquid inside to cool. When employees searched through the waste material, they found a set of keys. Former Hamilton County Police Chief, Deputy Sheriff Victor Carelli, investigated the case:

“The keys found belonged to the victim’s car. They also belonged to three padlocks of his, and one key we believed went into his residence but we couldn’t prove that because it was bent and not very good shape.”

If the keys pulled from the furnace were Dave’s, they would presumably have fallen in along with the “foreign body” at 5:15 AM. But if Dave’s keys were seen more than two hours later in his toolbox, how did they get into the furnace?

Investigators concluded that Dave was probably dead. Harry was stunned. He was also confused about Dave’s keys:

“When I left the plant to go over to the maintenance shop, his keys were in the box. When I left there, to go home, they were still in the box. I went home. When I came back that night, his keys were still in the top of his toolbox. The supervisor closed his box, put the lock on his toolbox and took his keys out of the lock. And from there on I do not know what happened to the keys.”

Besides the keys, investigators found a steel toe from a boot, part of an eyeglass frame, fragments of Dave’s walkie-talkie, and a stainless steel wire that was looped together in three oddly connecting circles. Also recovered were several pieces of human bone.
Investigators were unable to determine how Dave ended up in the furnace. They suggested that he might have committed suicide. Dave had a history of psychological problems, and around the time of his divorce, he had apparently tried to kill himself. Dave Bocks’ daughter, Casey Drake believes otherwise:

“I know my father did not commit suicide. He had purchased groceries for the week. He was planning a vacation with my younger brother and me for the following summer to Florida, and he had paid all of his bills for the month. There was no reason for him to commit suicide.”

Former N.L.O. employee, David Day agrees:

“He was probably lowered into the furnace and murdered. I can’t think of any other way that it could have happened. I don’t believe that it could have been suicide or that it could have been an accident.”

Investigative reporter, D. C. Cole believes he knows why Dave Bocks may have been murdered:

“I think he knew something. It’s possible that he was a whistle blower or was going to be a whistle blower. Plant 8 had released four times more radioactive contaminants into the environment than any other plant at the plant site. I believe that they could have either shot him, or they could have hit him with something and knocked him unconscious. They took the body back to Plant 6, where the furnace is. I would hate to think that he was conscious. I can’t imagine a more horrible death than that.”

According to former Chief of Police Victor Carrelli, the evidence for murder was never there:

“No one ever gave us any indication or reason to believe that foul play may have occurred.”

Harry Easterling hopes someone might come forward and tell what they know:

“There are probably people out there that know what happened, and there may not be. Either way, if they did, I doubt anybody would tell for fear of their life.”

In 1989, five years after Dave Bocks’ death, the N.L.O. was shut down. Sadly, years later, Dave’s family is still unable to lay him to rest. Dave’s remains are just a few bone fragments and are too toxic to be buried in the ground. They have been sealed in a drum, and shipped off to a Nevada test site to be stored with other radioactive materials.

How Dave died and why remains a mystery.

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

GOTTA STAY FAI posted:

If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that having a child renders you beyond reproach

ftfy

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Kennel posted:

Crossposting from the OSHA thread.

Solice Kirsk posted:

The Aristocrats!

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
i'm the kind of guy who laughs at a funeral

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Kanine posted:

whenever i die its going to be in a way that probably makes my corpse get lost/destroyed in some way so that should make things cheaper for my loved ones.

https://unsolved.com/gallery/dave-bocks/

Unsolved Mysteries posted:

“He was probably lowered into the furnace and murdered. I can’t think of any other way that it could have happened. I don’t believe that it could have been suicide or that it could have been an accident.”

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
bdsmh

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/they-came-in-through-the-bathroom-mirror/Content?oid=871084

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Caganer posted:

It definitely was not me, I know that. I did NOT invent the Bitcoin. Got it?!

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

catlord posted:

I mean, the PNW gets weird news stories too, but generally it's stuff like this, or this, because Florida really is unusually open with their records.

Eastern Washington hole posted:

A man named Red Elk is one of the only people alive known to have ever seen the mysterious hole.

A Native American Shaman, or medicine man, Red Elk said his dad first showed him the hole in 1961.

"He said 'This is an endless hole,'" Red Elk said.

:discourse:

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
FIU pedestrian bridge collapses days after installation; police say multiple deaths, cars trapped

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop
The Disappearance of the Yuba County Five

:spooky: posted:

Joe Shones was having a heart attack. The 55-year-old Californian had felt fine just a few minutes previously, navigating his Volkswagen on a desolate mountain road near Rogers Cow Camp in the Plumas National Forest to see if weather conditions were good enough to bring his family along for a weekend excursion the following day. But as he drove further into the night, snowdrifts slowed his tires. When he got out to push his car, the exertion brought on a searing pain in his chest. It was February 24, 1978, and Shones was miles from help.

As he sat in his car wondering what to do, he noticed two sets of headlights, one belonging to a pickup truck. Hoping he could flag down the passerby, he exited his vehicle and began screaming for help. He would later say he saw a group of men, one woman, and a baby. They continues walking, ignoring him. Hours later, back inside his car, he saw what he thought were flashlights. When he went back outside to yell into the darkness, no one responded to the sound of his voice.

Hours into his ordeal and with his car still stuck and now out of gas, Shones felt well enough to begin walking down the mountain road and toward a lodge roughly eight miles away. He passed a 1969 Mercury Montego, but the vehicle had no occupants. Perhaps, Shones thought, it belonged to the group he had seen earlier.

At the time, Shones was preoccupied with his own emergency. But authorities would later realize the biggest story to emerge from that dark, desolate road wasn't his brush with death. It was the fact that Shones had likely wound up being the last person to see Ted Weiher, Gary Mathias, Jack Madruga, Jack Huett, and Bill Sterling alive.

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Pick posted:

Spooky as heck although they do try to avoid the topic that these men were mentally deficient and probably did dumb things as a result.

it's still unnerving :colbert:

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

china bot
Sep 7, 2014

you listen HERE pal
SAY GOODBYE TO TELEPHONE SEX
Plaster Town Cop

Solice Kirsk posted:

How would anyone besides them know what they were doing or thinking?

says the malort drinker

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply