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Hello everyone. I currently own a 1997 Buick regal with 3800 series 2 a non-supercharged motor. This winter was really rough to my car. One day back in January when we had many subzero days in a row I started my car up. It cranked a bit slow but fired up. I waited a few moments before going back in the house to make sure no lights were on in the dashboard. About 10 minutes later I went out to go to work and my engine was loud. Open the door and the oil light was on. I immediately shut the car off, waited a few minutes and checked the oil level. It was full. Started the car back up and still had the oil light on. So I shut it off and took someone else car to work. Later that day my dad started the car, started fine and no oil light. He let it run for 20 minutes and it was fine. The engine had quieted down. I took the car the next day and noticed I had a strange engine vibration at high speed. The next day it was fine until a few months ago. I now notice that after driving at high speeds for a little while I hear a ticking sound coming from the engine. My dad drove it around and determined that it is either a wrist pin or bearing going out. It has gotten worse, the knock sensors pick up on it and retard ignition timing drastically affecting performance. I was told to replace the motor. So this weekend I picked up a junkyard motor out of a 98 LeSabre. The motor supposedly has 43k on the odometer. So knowing the issues with the intake gaskets I pull the valve covers off and the intake manifold off. The LIM gaskets were the original plastic that were falling apart. As you can see in the pictures, the valve springs and lifter are coated in what I thought was carbon, but may be burnt on oil?     The bottom of the motor with the oil pan off looks great. I don't see any sludge or deposits. Inside the oil pan I see a little bit of small carbon pieces. My question is this. What are your guys thoughts on the condition of the motor. Should I pull the heads off and look at the valve stems and clean everything up? Should I swap the heads off my existing motor? When I did the LIM gaskets on mine about 2 years ago the valve springs had some tarnish on them, they looked a lot better than what I see. Any input would be appreciated. edit: proofreading comdgp fucked around with this message at 01:56 on May 6, 2014 |
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May 6, 2014 01:53
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 21:03 |
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Not to be a dick or anything but, I have done this job on countless gm shitboxes and that is how most look that have the factory gasket on. I would spray some cleaner in there and see what it does to help the carbon/oil/gm crud.
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May 6, 2014 02:13
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Super charge the pig is my thoughts. Edit: yeah, that thing is in OK shape. Its not good, not bad. I would just roll with it for now until it dies. LIM are always making GBS threads themselves on these motors because of dexcool
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May 6, 2014 03:14
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Which reminds me, flush the everliving gently caress out of the new motor before you put it in. Scrub off whatever death-cool residue you can access, then hose flush it when it's mostly reassembled and ready to go in. Then when it's running, flush it with complete fills of distilled water; drain + refill like 3 times with distilled over the course of a few weeks. Then, run green coolant forever and never worry about eating LIM gaskets again.
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May 6, 2014 03:33
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Super charge the pig is my thoughts. My original thought was to get a super charged motor. But that involves trying to find a computer that I can use in additional to other changes that would have to be made for it to work properly. Maybe some time down the road I will. The body on this car is in great shape. No rust on the body and minimal under. Sorry about the delay posting, work and getting the motor ready has taken up my whole week. But yeah the general conses is that it is more common than not. After I get it running I'll seafoam it. When I had the heads off the pistons and everything looked good. When I pulled the heads off it had the green stuff for coolant, not dex. There was no rust or sludge buildup in the heads or block. I had no intentions on putting that poo poo in there. I have another question. Since I know that the motor has been sitting a while and I have to change the oil filter housing, what is the process for getting the oil pump primed? I don't want to destroy the motor on startup lol. I know it is a crank driven pump and have read many different things on that. One last thing should I run conventional or synthetic? I figure with the lower miles synthetic would be better in the long run? I heard synthetic may clean up some of the carbon on the lifters? I appreciate the help guys.
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May 10, 2014 14:51
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For starters, I'd fill the new filter with oil before you screw it on (or as much as feasible anyway, if the filter's mounted sideways or something some may spill out). Beyond that, some cars will shut the ignition off if you crank the car with the accelerator floored. Your car's right on the borderline that I don't know if it would have a throttle position sensor (necessary for that to work), or if GM vehicles do it at all, but if so you can crank the engine that way until the oil light goes off/gauge starts reading pressure. That's the ideal way, short of pulling the oil pump and priming it with a power drill (which is a huge pain in the rear end as it involves pulling the timing cover on most cars.) The crank is only spinning about 200 RPM while cranking, so any wear is minimal and there's no thrust loads from the cylinders firing.
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May 10, 2014 17:48
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If you're that worried, just unplug the coil pack and crank it for 15 seconds a few times with about 30-60 seconds in between to let the starter cool.
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May 10, 2014 23:15
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Fucknag posted:For starters, I'd fill the new filter with oil before you screw it on (or as much as feasible anyway, if the filter's mounted sideways or something some may spill out). Any OBDII car (so '96 or later) should do that. It's called Clear Flood Mode, deactivates the fuel-injectors if you crank the engine with the pedal floored.
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May 11, 2014 02:03
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I'm super impressed that someone managed to kill a 3800. It was mentioned earlier but if you're messing around in there now is a great time to find a supercharged 3800 and snag the go fast bits.
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May 11, 2014 08:09
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Terrible Robot posted:Any OBDII car (so '96 or later) should do that. It's called Clear Flood Mode, deactivates the fuel-injectors if you crank the engine with the pedal floored. Neither of my OBDII Hondas had it (96 Civic, 01 Accord), nor did my 99 Nissan.
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May 11, 2014 08:39
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some texas redneck posted:Neither of my OBDII Hondas had it (96 Civic, 01 Accord), nor did my 99 Nissan. I was lied to by my Diagnostics instructor, apparently. Can't say I'm terribly shocked. In any case, there should be a fuse you can pull to kill power to the fuel pump so you can still crank the engine to prime it. Make sure to bleed off any residual pressure in the fuel line first.
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May 11, 2014 15:46
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But we're talking about a GM product here, it almost certainly has a clear flood mode.
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May 11, 2014 16:56
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If I should create a new thread for this let me know. It is related to the swap I did.... Ok, so last weekend me and a buddy of mine got the engine swapped out. After making a few mistakes like not noticing the fly wheels were different and a few other things we got the car running. First startup was good seems to be ok. There waas no check engine light on and after the oil got flowing it ran smoothly. After I get the cooling system bleed and everything I went to take my friend home. I drove around the side streets and everything is going well. I get on the highway and let her rip. I hit the throttle wide open. Car accelerates smoothly. I get to about 70 mph and the service engine soon light starts flashing. I had my scanner in the car with me and i pulled the code out, P0300 random misfire. As I'm driving any time I would hard accelerate on the highway it would start flashing. To be honest I can't tell if it really is, it doesn't feel like it. So I borrow my dads better scanner to see which ones are misfiring. It is only on cylinders 1.4.3,6. Cylinders 2 and 5 don't show any misfires. What I have done to try to see why there is one, if there is one at all. I replaced all 6 injectors from the original motor including fuel rail. I have also swapped all of the coil packs, including the one for 2 and 5. Since I knew that that coil wasn't misfiring I swapped it for another one that shows as misfiring and no change. I even swapped the Ignition Control Module and no change. I am currently baffled. I can reproduce this in the driveway at higher RPM's so it's not just a highway thing. Anyone run across anything like this. I tried doing some research but have not come across anything. One final thing is that this did not happen before the engine swap.
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May 18, 2014 19:19
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Can you watch the data list while you hammer on it and see if something like the CPS, Cam sensors, MAP, MAF starts cutting out? Maybe do a wiggle test on all of the wires in the engine bay including grounds in case something is a bit loose. Do they have a remote MAP sensor that may have a vacuum line off? Maybe a torn or loose intake hose that's letting false air in after the MAF? I'm not super familiar with GM cars so I don't know any specifics but this is some of the stuff I'd look at first if I had a cranky engine swap.
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May 18, 2014 20:24
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Have you double checked your plug wire routing? I did a LIM on one and didn't notice that I had some wires swapped and had the exact same codes.
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May 19, 2014 00:46
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I had a 3800 Mk II car some years back and I seem to remember it doing something like this because it had a bad intake manifold. The official name for this part was "plenum", which struck me as unusual, so it sticks out in my mind. I distinctly remember trying to overtake a black Cadillac at speed and having the light do the same thing. If I'm remembering it right, the engine, being electronically controlled, has some ability to compensate for the cracks that form in the manifold, which is of plastic; but it is not perfect. Car drove beautifully, though, and only ever stranded me when the starter conked out; even when the tensioner snapped off the water-pump housing, completely depriving everything of said belt, it was able to get me home and itself onto the flatbed the next day. The only noticeable effect of this condition was immensely heavy steering, and several caution lights.
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May 19, 2014 05:29
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13 INCH DICK posted:I had some wires swapped and had the exact same codes. This. I'd say 90% chance you have 2 (or 4) wires swapped. Glad you got it running, but a flashing CEL/service engine light = a misfire bad enough to destroy expensive parts (catalytic converter).
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May 19, 2014 12:31
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Red_October_7000 posted:The official name for this part was "plenum", which struck me as unusual, so it sticks out in my mind. How is that unusual? Its the commonly accepted name for the common-volume chamber that contains intake air before it is goes down the runners to the individual cylinders. Lots of EFI engines have plenum chambers. If you google 'intake plenum' you'll get a million images from everything from mustang engines to F1 engines, all of the same part.
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May 19, 2014 18:13
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Red_October_7000 posted:I had a 3800 Mk II car some years back and I seem to remember it doing something like this because it had a bad intake manifold. The official name for this part was "plenum", which struck me as unusual, so it sticks out in my mind. I distinctly remember trying to overtake a black Cadillac at speed and having the light do the same thing. If I'm remembering it right, the engine, being electronically controlled, has some ability to compensate for the cracks that form in the manifold, which is of plastic; but it is not perfect. Car drove beautifully, though, and only ever stranded me when the starter conked out; even when the tensioner snapped off the water-pump housing, completely depriving everything of said belt, it was able to get me home and itself onto the flatbed the next day. The only noticeable effect of this condition was immensely heavy steering, and several caution lights. I'm actually beginning to think this may be part of the problem. I was also messing around with the PCV housing and that made a slight difference, but I think that maybe the Plenum that came with this motor is bad. I'm going to swap intakes and see if it makes any difference. The PCV housing on these also suck, they like to break and not hold the MAP sensor in place. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give it a try and see what happens.
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May 19, 2014 22:40
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HotCanadianChick posted:How is that unusual? Its the commonly accepted name for the common-volume chamber that contains intake air before it is goes down the runners to the individual cylinders. Lots of EFI engines have plenum chambers. Well at the time I didn't know that it was in reference to a specific type of intake manifold, so at that time it struck me as unusual! That's why I remember it.
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May 20, 2014 02:20
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You should be able to spray carb cleaner or something around the plenum area to see if you've got an leak. At idle it will make a noticeable difference if the carb cleaner is making into the intake. Before spraying flammable stuff at your engine bits make sure your plug wires are good and not sparking on stuff, have a good extinguisher of the proper type on hand, etc.
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May 20, 2014 05:28
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Ok, I am obviously missing something here. Here is my thought process at the moment. The car is not misfiring. It can't. I can be doing 80 MPH, hit the accelerator down all the way, WOT. Trans kicks down into a lower gear. Car accelerates SMOOTHLY. Service engine soon light starts flashing. P0300, random misfire. I look at the miscount on the scanner as the light is flashing. Every cylinder but 2 and 5 are misfiring. My reasoning is this, there is absolutely no possible way this car is misfiring. If it were misfiring, The acceleration would be harsh, or thinking that if 4 are misfiring that the car wouldn't even be going that fast. I can high rev in the driveway, it show misfires on those cylinders. Drop the idle down, no misfires detected. What am I missing here? Like I said before I changed the ICM thinking that was a good possibility. I have had someone hold the petal down while in park and start shaking every wire loom I can find from between the ICM and computer. I have checked every connector, I have been looking at ground wires. Everything is snug, no corrosion around any grounds. And the scanner still shows a misfire on those 4 cylinders. I know what a misfire feels like and its not misfiring. Sorry for the semi rant, but this is driving me nuts. I am lost on this one.
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May 21, 2014 02:44
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Did you mix up anything at the coils? Either the leads from the coils to the spark plugs, or the harness plugs to the coils from the ICM? It almost sounds like 2 coils are swapped.
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May 21, 2014 02:47
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comdgp posted:Ok, I am obviously missing something here. Here is my thought process at the moment. The car is not misfiring. It can't. I can be doing 80 MPH, hit the accelerator down all the way, WOT. Trans kicks down into a lower gear. Car accelerates SMOOTHLY. Service engine soon light starts flashing. P0300, random misfire. I look at the miscount on the scanner as the light is flashing. Every cylinder but 2 and 5 are misfiring. Crank or cam position sensors possibly or from recent experience A bad, missmatched or as we found out after 3 days of checking EVERYTHING and replacing the harness, a cheap aftermarket harmonic balancer. Which can give irregular spark or in our case no spark at all. *FUCKYOUNAPPA! Preoptopus fucked around with this message at 03:40 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 03:38
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some texas redneck posted:Did you mix up anything at the coils? Either the leads from the coils to the spark plugs, or the harness plugs to the coils from the ICM? It almost sounds like 2 coils are swapped. No, everything is connected properly and where it is suppose to be. Like I said, The computer thinks there are 4 cylinders that are misfiring, but I am 99% sure that no cylinder is misfiring. I drove it 300 miles today. Every time I hard accelerated the service engine soon would flash, but the car would run smooth. No odd vibrations, I definitely felt no misfiring of any sort.
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May 21, 2014 23:40
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comdgp posted:No, everything is connected properly and where it is suppose to be. Like I said, The computer thinks there are 4 cylinders that are misfiring, but I am 99% sure that no cylinder is misfiring. I drove it 300 miles today. Every time I hard accelerated the service engine soon would flash, but the car would run smooth. No odd vibrations, I definitely felt no misfiring of any sort. The only way it would "think" that if it's not happening is if the crank position sensor is sending some incorrect signaling. (Which would likely make it run like crap, since the injector timing would be off.) And here's my first suspect as to how that could happen: comdgp posted:After making a few mistakes like not noticing the fly wheels were different and a few other things we got the car running.
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May 22, 2014 01:34
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GFs mom's KIA had something similar. It ended up being a cam sensor going bad.
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May 22, 2014 07:47
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 21:03 |
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Preoptopus posted:Crank or cam position sensors possibly or from recent experience A bad, missmatched or as we found out after 3 days of checking EVERYTHING and replacing the harness, a cheap aftermarket harmonic balancer. Which can give irregular spark or in our case no spark at all. Well it turns out that the drat misfire was more than likely the crankshaft sensor. I swapped the one that was in my motor before the swap. When I pulled off the crank sensor I noticed that it looks like it was an aftermarket one. It looked pretty new to be honest. I also swapped the harmonic balancer just in case. But I put the one that was on my original motor started it up and no misfire. Took it on the expressway. Hit 90 MPH, hit the gas and the car accelerated fine with no check engine light flashing.
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Jul 21, 2014 00:40
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