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uh
This poll is closed.
embiid 41 32.28%
wiggins 86 67.72%
Total: 127 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Locked thread
Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch


Old thread

The NBA draft is cool as hell and no other sport has such an immediate "player is drafted -> franchise is changed" effect. Granted, most rookies are Real Bad and some of them will never even play in the NBA. But the ones that do? They might be okay at defense someday and if that thought doesn't get your blood going then I don't even want to know you bro

The big question in this draft is not really one at all. Sure, between Wiggins and Embiid you have the dynamic of dark horse vs. big name, upside vs. polish, wing vs. big man, but realistically both are astoundingly good prospects and barring their careers going horribly off the rails, both will likely end up starting in the NBA for years.

The top five of this draft will likely go something like Wiggins/Embiid/Parker/Exum/Randle, with the top three sliding around depending on how the lottery shakes out and Exum and Randle grappling for that fourth spot. In the next tier you have players like Marcus Smart, Aaron Gordon, Dario Saric, and Noah Vonleh: projected starters with all-star upside. Not as dazzling as the top 5 but still high quality players that would likely work their way into the top 5 of a weaker draft. After that, you have the McDermotts (lower ceiling but still project to start and/or fill niches), the Harrises (underwhelming college players with fantastic upside) and the Ennises (relative unknowns who had excellent seasons and surged their way up through the draft). In practical terms, it's a fairly safe draft with some good upside players. You don't necessarily have to be a genius to land on a solid pick.

Instead of trying to organize a composite draft which will largely be full of subjective evaluations and disagreeing blowhards, what I'll do instead is compile a top 5 for each position, which tends to be more rigid, and note team needs at each position. I'll also do writeups of the top 5 at each position and then anyone else the thread is curious about.

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Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Top 5 PG
1. Dante Exum
2. Marcus Smart
3. Tyler Ennis
4. Elfrid Payton
5. Kyle Anderson

Top 5 SG
1. Andrew Wiggins
2. Gary Harris
3. James Young
4. Nik Stauskas
5. Jordan Adams

Top 5 SF
1. Jabari Parker
2. Dario Saric
3. K.J. McDaniels
4. Rodney Hood
5. Jerami Grant

Top 5 PF
1. Julius Randle
2. Doug McDermott
3. Aaron Gordon
4. T.J. Warren
5. Clint Capela

Top 5 C
1. Joel Embiid
2. Noah Vonleh
3. Jusuf Nurkic
4. Mitch McGary
5. Kristaps Porzingis

Declan MacManus fucked around with this message at 23:14 on May 8, 2014

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Kibner posted:

I thought the Harris twins were going back to UK?

Gary Harris is a shooting guard from MSU. :)

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

mynameisjohn posted:

(Elfrid Payton is better than Tyler Ennis)

I also believe this :ssh:

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

the_american_dream posted:

hahaha ahem im sorry Declan but im used to funny pictures and writeups can you go ahead and take care of that thanks

Kristaps Porzingis is a funny name, that's all I got for now

(I'll be writing my balls off soon enough)

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

WhyteRyce posted:

I doubt they are just leaving it all up random internet strangers. See if anyone out there gives them anything slightly interesting for free and get some publicity out of it. Worst case, you disregard everything and just use your own data. Best case, you find some diamond in the rough to add to your front office.

Most likely case, Declan and dokmo get jobs in Sacramento

This is actually what I have been doing instead of writing draft profiles for you guys, I've been dropping hot draft tips in the Kings' suggestion box along with sternly worded reprimands about firing Rick Adelman

Time posted:

I really don't have much to contribute to the draft threads so I don't post in them much but I feel the need to let you know that I appreciate the effort that you put in making them Declan.

this is the wrong edition of this thread for that :shobon:

dongsbot 9000 posted:

is marshall henderson actually even remotely good

if only we had some writeups...

(i assume the answer is no and there's no point in writing up a future used car salesman like marshall but i demand writeups for all the interesting guys like pj and marshall and that bogdan bogdan dude and lil b. we all know that wiggins is good; let's talk about cool people)

Cool people is what I'm all about (he got worse after last year and his shot selection isn't the greatest, he's a longshot to make the league at all much less be drafted)

He also makes noted cool forums poster Ehud real mad


There is a lot to unpack here and it's only like the third best Henderson gif

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

MourningView posted:

He kinda did wrong though.

Marshall Henderson is just a series of computer generated GIFs and not a real person, imo

Time posted:

You can't say this and not post the others c'mon man




bonus:

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Here are some profiles with player comps which I loving hate but which you dudes seem to want so here they are

A DOPE rear end BUNCH OF POINT GUARDS

Dante Exum (Intl. '95, Australia)

PG/SG, 6'6, 188 lbs.

Pros: Very athletic, outstanding physical profile, Australian combo guard which is very in right now, adorable, great handle, adept at finishing in traffic, skilled at creating space, gifted passer, can play on or off the ball

Cons: Very little footage exists of him so it's one of those "foreign bigfoot" deals. Not the greatest shooter right now. The closest comp for him is probably a taller Russell Westbrook so some dumb idiots are going to be bitching about him every time he plays. Tends to create offense for himself first and foremost. Mediocre free throw shooter. I like him a lot so it's bound to blow up in my face.

Player comp that is a reflection of playstyle and not of overall potential: Russell Westbrook/Dwyane Wade


Marcus Smart (So., OkSt)

PG, 6'4, 225 lbs.

Pros: Built like a Mack truck, wisely decided to ignore an open LeBryan Nash for one and a half years, gifted rebounder, excellent at disrupting passing lanes, projects as a great defender, improved turnovers between freshman and sophomore year

Cons: Shoots the ball like he's having a muscle spasm. Punched a white guy one time. Poor shot selection. Projects best in a halfcourt offense and how boring is that?

Player comp that is a reflection of playstyle and not of overall potential: I guess Gary Payton? Or maybe Tim Hardaway post-knee surgery.



Tyler Ennis (Fr., Cuse)

PG, 6'2, 180 lbs.

Pros: Babyfaced PGs from Syracuse are also very in, Pure Point Guard TM, racks up steals, gifted passer, skilled in the pick and roll, excellent at using screens and directing an offense, excellent court vision

Cons: Pushes off, like, constantly. A weak man-to-man defender, even for a Syracuse guy. Spotty shooter. Terrible finisher.

Player comp that is a reflection of playstyle and not of overall potential: Greivis Vasquez



Elfrid Payton (So., ULL)

PG, 6'4, 165 lbs.

Pros: Probably the best lateral quickness of anyone in this draft class, fun hair, skilled at creating his own shot in isolation and in pick and roll situations, fantastic at getting to the rim, excellent defender, great court vision, a very young sophomore, ~*~*~*~explosive~*~*~*~

Cons: Can be careless with the ball. Not a good finisher or shooter. Skinny. Unselfish to a fault at times. Poor free throw shooter. Didn't play much in the way of competition. Maybe too chill.

Player comp that is a reflection of playstyle and not of overall potential: Ty Lawson

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

JRizzle posted:

I thought Elfrid Payton was a junior.

poo poo you're right

He enrolled at ULL when he was 17 so he's really young and I get his poo poo mixed up all the time

Jota posted:

You're getting Noah Vonleh

Pretty much yeah, like there's a chance Embiid's medical issues aren't cleared up before the draft and he falls to the Kings but Vonleh is the right player at the right spot which will make it sadder when he busts

Kibner posted:

Style, not potential.

player comps :downs::arghfist:

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

WhyteRyce posted:

The Combine was today and you didn't inform anyone Declan? What the gently caress man

I was busy :mad:

vegaji posted:

I really wish that Wiggins did the combine



No reason to

WhyteRyce posted:

Poor McDermott those are bad measurements

McDermott was never going to blow up the combine like Harrison Barnes. He is what he is

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Takeaways: Nik Stauskas is a fatty, Kyle Anderson is huge, KJ McDaniels got himself some long arms, Patric Young has alligator arms

MourningView posted:

Ennis is a way better shooter than Declan's giving him credit for.

this is the hill i die on

Rick posted:

Exum refuted the claims that he'll only play for the Lakers. I honestly don't know anything about him, I just am hoping the Lakers draft big since I think their front line is going to be pretty awful for sure next year, while their back court is just likely to be awful instead of a sure thing.

E: All the mock drafts say different things and it confuses me, I can't navigate this at all so I'm just going to play with this ESPN thing http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2014/mockdraft because the Lakers keep getting the second pick out of it and then #1 drafts Parker first instead of Wiggins every time.

It would be odd to draft Parker instead of Wiggins first but it could end up looking good in retrospect. But hey, most drafting things end up looking different in retrospect

The Glumslinger posted:

None of Parker, Wiggins, or Embiid attended the combine. I also, think athleticism tests are on the second day

Correct. They're doing lane agility tests and sprints among other stuff today starting at 9 AM Chicago time and you can watch that on ESPNU starting at 10 AM EST or WatchESPN and that'll go for three hours.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

WhyteRyce posted:

@DraftExpress
Dante Exum's standing (31.5 inches) and max vertical (34.5) are just middle of the pack. Standing vert is the same as MCW, max much lower.

Does this mean the next Russell Westbrook won't be dunking over fouls :(

He's strong so he can dunk through contact, it'll be okay

MourningView posted:

Noooope.

I mean supposedly, anyway. No one has actually watched Dante Exum play meaningful basketball for like a year because he might as well be playing in Antarctica.

He didn't really wow in the shooting drills so I think it's safe to say his J is busted for the time being

vegaji posted:

Parker played the 4/5 on a team with no post presence and Wiggins played the wing on a team that pounds it inside even when it's to its own detriment. Parker will be a good rebounder for a 3, but average for a 4 in the NBA, while Wiggins had good production rebounding on the wing (6reb/game) on a team with one elite+one good rebounding starting bigs. Parker's shooting% was better than Wiggins, but it wasn't significantly better. Wiggins scored by going to the basket (6.5 FTA/game) in a wing-unfriendly offense and steadily improved his jumper over the year.

The early narrative for these two was that Parker was NBA ready and Wiggins was raw upside, but that's just a lazy narrative set within the first week of the season. Parker is a riskier pick because you don't know how his body type will translate to the NBA and his defense will never not be a concern, while Wiggins seems to be Iguodala-type as a worst case scenario if he just coasts by on his athleticism/wing defense.

No, Parker is a fairly safe pick in that he already has at least one NBA-ready skill (shooting) so he should be able to give you something even if he doesn't live up to his potential

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

MourningView posted:

Parker's shooting did fall off a decent bit as the season went on, although he can still effective score in a lot of other ways.

I think that's fair but the overall point is that Jabari Parker isn't some Adam Morrison-type prospect. He's Legit and Pro Ready and Can Contribute Immediately and Has Mormon Faith

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

There's a difference between combine athleticism and having the ability to actually apply it towards defense. In college he showed pretty much no aptitude for it (at least in a way that would make you think he'll be successful in the NBA on that end).

Also the draft lottery is tonight so if you want to watch Dan Gilbert's fuckface kid back into another #1 overall pick and everyone act like it's a loving miracle of statistics from G_d you can do that before tonight's playoff game on ESPN.

WhyteRyce posted:

Noah's measurements are so good that I have to resign myself to the fact that someone will take him before #7 and I'll have to settle for Aaron Gordon. That's probably not the worse thing in the world since he sounds like an amazing defender

He should be. I don't know if he will be, but all signs point to him being at least above average on that end. Also he'll swat the gently caress out of some balls

NickRoweFillea posted:

What are the odds that Doug falls to the Grizz or must I now convince myself that Cleanthony Early or KJ McDaniels is gonna be worth it

His height measurements probably helped the cause a bit but he's not dropping out of the lottery, sorry homie

If it makes you feel better no amount of convincing will ever convince you that Cleanthony Early or KJ McDaniels is worth it (because they are not) (don't draft a wheatbee or a Cuse dude) (just sell yourself on PJ Hairston)

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

NickRoweFillea posted:

i must watch film

k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBYGqSnmFnw

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Kirios posted:

Remind me again why Kidd-Gilchrist was taken second overall? It seemed like a horrible decision at the time.

Crazy athletic lockdown defender with upside who showed flashes of versatility on offense

Also he's only 20 and has been stuck under the poo poo roulette that has been the Bobcats coaching staff before this year

E: With the benefit of hindsight you'd obviously take Beal, Drummond, or Lillard, but you don't have that, and it wasn't a bad pick at the time

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Kirios posted:

I wouldn't agree on the hindsight part. I personally thought Bradley Beal was the second best player in the draft by a noticeable margin. Drummond would have been up there as well if it weren't for personality concerns leading into the NBA.

MKG was regarded as being pretty much neck and neck with Beal as a prospect and even if it might have registered as an immediate mistake in your eyes it was considered an acceptable pick

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Kidd-Liggit posted:

I think part of it was that he played on a college team that was perfectly made to let him play to his strengths while hiding him from showing his deficiencies too much. So you had a guy who was the leader of a team that pretty much steamrolled everyone and all we saw was Kidd-Gilchrist playing defense, rebounding, and being filthy in transition.

The red flags for MKG were his lack of a jumper and his pretty middling efficiency numbers when looking at how often he was shooting at the rim and/or in transition. He did get to the line like a ton, though, it's strange that hasn't carried over. He doesn't attack the basket as much in the pros. Then again, the Bobcats spacing might not be there either.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

To be fair to Our AMMO Who Art in Russia Hallowed be His Stache he had a pretty major knee injury that robbed him of all of his athleticism (I mean, whatever athleticism he had) and made him about as useful as a folding chair on defense

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

MKG is actually very, very athletic. Tested off the charts at the combine, always played above the rim, and just outjumped/hustled/etc other dudes for offensive rebounds. He had the top wing scores for pretty much everything but vert (and came in second on those). On a different team, he'd look like a much different player offensively.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

MKG is fast and strong and you can't keep dudes like that down for long. There's no reason he can't be a Gerald Wallace type player in the next two years.

Kirios posted:

If we really want to discuss hindsight picks in a hilarious fashion why was Anthony Bennett the #1 pick? Was anyone here actually projecting him as the #1 player in the 2013 draft?

That was just classic Cleveland sports

E: Although according to dokmo several other FOs had him rated just as highly but I'm pretty sure he's loving with us

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

What a load of horseshit

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

MourningView posted:

He has a higher ceiling but it depends on his shooting bouncing back to freshman levels and him finally staying healthy. Stauskas is safer because you at least know he's going to have one elite NBA skill.

In my experience goons are typically really happy if their team drafts an elite (or perceived elite) shooter so I'm sure that even though Harris is the better prospect a lot of posters here would rather have Stauskas

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Kibner posted:

Does Patric Young project as a second rounder? How effective would he be in a Reggie Evans type role?

Patric Young projects as a stupid jerk who I wrote profiles for two years in a row before he went back to school each year like a big dumb idiot. Anyways he actually has tiny arms and has a very short standing reach for a dude that's 6'10 so that will probably hurt his rebounding and/or his ability to eat Jeff Goldblum

E: Realistically speaking, he's a garbage man on offense (albeit a very athletic and strong one). He wasn't a great rebounder in college and probably won't be in the NBA either, but he should (theoretically) be great at defending the pick and roll and can body up with most centers in the NBA. He'd be a great backup big man or an okay starter.

Declan MacManus fucked around with this message at 14:36 on May 21, 2014

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Adreian Payne will be really good (hot takes y'all) but I don't know what that frontcourt rotation would look like

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Doltos posted:

What role would Payne settle into? He looked like a pretty decent ranged shooter whenever I watched him. What's his ceiling, Channing Frye?

He's more versatile than Frye. If we're going with a realistic projection, I'd say Ersan Ilyasova. As far as his ceiling goes, I think if he maximizes his potential, he could be an Al Horford type player.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Bashez posted:

The Spurs interviewed Elfrid Payton (please god let this happen), Kyle Anderson, Shabazz Napier, and Gary Harris.

That's a lot of guard action.

Yes yes no yes

MourningView posted:

His agent isn't letting anyone do a medical examination on him so no one has any clue.

And slowly a dark cloud looms over Cleveland haha jk that's just what the sky looks like there

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

By the way as an armchair draftist or whatever the gently caress you want to call me there is almost zero chance I would take a player who would not submit to a medical examination at their projected draft spot. Right to privacy yeah yeah etc. but finding out you have a bad back is not something that I want to do after I've drafted you. I don't know if Embiid's stock will take a serious hit but I'd probably move Parker solidly ahead of him until he's medically cleared.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

The human body is just not designed to be that tall. It's not a matter of if but when 7 footers end up breaking down.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Time posted:

ENEMY OF KANSAS ATHLETICS

-Wheatbees
-Mizzou
-Bill Self
-That piece of turf in Todd Reesing's helmet

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Cigar Aficionado posted:

I can't imagine the Cavs will have the balls to draft Embiid with no medical records, especially with the spectre of Bennett hanging over them. It has to be Wiggins, which I think is the right pick anyway.

It doesn't have to be Wiggins, it could also be Parker who would be really easy to rationalize for the Cavs

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

mynameisjohn posted:

wasn't he the main guy that just went ham (other than all the rockets) when they moved the 3pt line in?

MJ also went off from behind the line and he shot about 3 a game at 43%

So if you were wondering, Michael Jordan's effective jumpshot range was about 22 feet

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Mr. Onslaught posted:

Based my extensive research of watching three Parker/Wiggins/Embiid ten minute videos (the most anyone should waste on college "basketball") it looks like Wiggins should go first and it's not even close

How tongue in cheek is this post because it will affect how tongue in cheek my response is

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Doltos posted:

Excluding Embiid, how likely are some of the lottery guys gonna bust at the next level? Who has the bustiest profile?

Your mom, obviously.

The biggest bust potential besides the Euro guys we have almost no footage of (Exum, Nurkic) are probably Aaron Gordon, James Young, and maybe Vonleh. I'm defining bust here as "never reaches potential relative to where they were drafted". Young is very young and can't create off the dribble at all right now and doesn't really play defense and Noah Vonleh's stock is wrapped up in perimeter shooting that he only did on occasion and just generally outperforming expectations for his freshman year. Aaron Gordon is all tools.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

I think the worst case scenario for Aaron Gordon would be that he ends up being Hakim Warrick. It's not the worst thing in the world but who wants to draft Hakim Warrick in a loaded draft

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Kibner posted:

Huh, I though Smart would have registered just as high on the bust scale as those guys.

It depends on who you ask. MV is down on him but I think he'll turn out pretty good.

Rick posted:

My memory of Robinson was that he was hyperconcerned about his stats, so he didn't start to shoot the three until he could knock it down at a decent clip.

Doing a good thing for a bad reason is totally fine

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Rick posted:

It's really tough to defend Gordon because he was so inconsistent so he could definitely bust. I really like post-Brandon-Ashley-Injury-Playing-Power-Forward Gordon quite a bit.

Aaron Gordon the power forward is a much better prospect than Aaron Gordon the small forward

Mr. Onslaught posted:

I played college basketball so I know three things definitively:

1 - college basketball sucks
2 - David West is the biggest rear end in a top hat I have ever seen in my life
3 - Boozer owns

I find it's much easier to watch if you're just scouting (and way way easier to scout than the NBA or Euroleague) and as far as two and three go I would like those things to be true

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Saric is a legit prospect and the only real knock on him is that he probably won't be coming overseas right away. Also his mess rear end teeth

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

kiimo posted:

Embiid looks pretty healthy. Can't pass on this guy.

http://youtu.be/Gp7PX7hYUFQ

I mean you can but only if you're taking Wiggins instead (he looks like he'll be completely healthy in time for the season but back injuries are nothing to gently caress with)

Icy Penguigo posted:

Wiggins is the one who looks a lot like Iguodala/Paul George. Parker next to Kyrie would be a horrible defensive core. I don't think they'd take Parker first but really who knows. I'm sure they'll all have private workouts with the Cavs and maybe Parker will really impress them.

Wiggins has T-Mac upside on offense and would make the most sense for the Cavs if they're looking for someone to contribute right away, but if they want to take the scoring load off Irving then Parker makes sense as well (and maybe they can flip their magical loving picks for Omer Asik or someone and roll with a pretty loving good frontcourt of Free Agent X (or Deng) - Parker - Asik). The Cavs really can't mess this one up.

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Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

euphronius posted:

Still waiting for Declan bios on the top players. Come on Declan.

I have Tuesday off, I'll do them then, be prepared for a lot of 'oh man so amazing wow such basketball very upside' in a lot of different ways

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