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This poll is closed.
embiid 41 32.28%
wiggins 86 67.72%
Total: 127 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
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kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Looks like Embiid made the right choice jumping to the NBA. Cleveland you are running out of excuses for your record.

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kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Best case for the Magic would have been Wiggins.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

MourningView posted:

Randle to David Lee is a solid cross-race comparison, so props to them for that.



Lee, David 6'7ĺ" 6'9" 229Ĺ 7'0" 8'10Ĺ"


Whoa. It's eerie.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Smart's game is going to work well in the NBA in my opinion. This isn't a flop joke, he can dominate at times, even when his shot isn't falling.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

^^^ Aaron Gordon vs. Blake Griffin in Staples Center is too perfect for words.

Spacebump posted:

If I had the number 1 pick and this was going on, there is no way I'd draft him.

The injury isn't a problem. It's a common injury and one I've had personally. His knee is nothing, it was a hyper-extension that just looked bad. The legit worry is that his back becomes a chronic injury but that's just as big a guess as anything. He's never hurt his back before so anyone saying it is chronic now doesn't understand the word. For what it's worth my back injury stopped recurring the second I started wearing a back brace and I bet he will start too, for prevention's sake. Of course I'm 5'11 so I don't think my story is much use determining what will happen with a 7 footer so I'll stop talking about it now.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

And you are, shockingly, pessimistic about them. I'm just trying to be clear here in that nobody knows. I keep seeing Greg Oden comparisons and those are just silly.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

I thought there were reports already coming out about his glass bones and asymmetrical legs but I didn't pay enough attention at the time admittedly.


edit: I'm a big Embiid/KU fanboy but I would happily admit that not allowing a medical evaluation before the draft would be a huge red flag. I'd like to think that will change at some point before the draft. Maybe he's just not ready yet. Or maybe it's a legit problem.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Blake is far and away a better player but Gordon can soar too. He's a highlight reel on a losing night waiting to happen.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

MourningView posted:

Parker can get up in the air pretty well, but his lateral quickness leaves a lot to be desired.

I've heard this as well and also that it's the culprit in his less than stellar defense, as opposed to say like, heart/grit/want to.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Totally premature. He has a good shooting motion, he can hit threes but it's absolutely still in the experimental phase. What he does great right now is his footwork and post moves and uses both hands, which is totally weird because those are things you usually learn last, not first. He's just a weird natural when it comes to creating on the post.

Here is a video, look for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn-dtrmh0nM

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Yeah I love Wiggins but if you told me Embiid would never have a significant injury again he's the pick. His defense is great, his offense is great, he's a competitor with a chip and he's got potential to be amazing. He's ambidextrous, he's light on his feet and he has the frame to grow. UK fans have ripped on KU fans for mentioning the word "Olajuwon" endlessly but the similarities really are glaring. His back is the only question mark. He even hits his free throws.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

MourningView posted:

College basketball is a clearly inferior product but still a lot of fun.

Excuse the derail MV but have you seen this gem yet? College basketball is fun because of rivalries. Enjoy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsRp597s-2U

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Spacebump posted:

His dad is apparently too controlling and doesn't want him to come to the NBA yet.

So the other knock on him is when he turns into Todd Marinovich.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Embiid looks pretty healthy. Can't pass on this guy.

http://youtu.be/Gp7PX7hYUFQ

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

BIZORT posted:

Parker's workout video was a lot more impressive than Embiid's. Parker's jumper looks fantastic, too. Is he primarily a perimeter guy?

Keep in mind I never watched Parker play before this video and I only saw Embiid play for about 5 minutes in some random Kansas game months and months ago

The problem is that the workout video doesn't show defense which is Parker's weakness. He's an offensive machine.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Did someone say he'd "literally be Olajuwon?" I don't remember reading that. He just moves like him and there are similarities. There are plenty of differences, Hakeem improved dramatically between his freshman and sophomore year and Embiid hasn't gotten there yet. Hakeem was 6'9 and beastly strong so they don't even directly compare physically. Instead of people who never watched Embiid conjuring up opinions out of reading box scores why not let professional scouts who know what they're talking about sway your opinion? I mean if you're going to ignore the mountain of evidence right in front of your face countering your arguments you might as well ignore the pros too.

quote:

Scout 1: If healthy, Iím taking him no. 1 and itís not even close.

This is how it works: We use tiers. There could be five guys in a tier, it doesnít matter what order. Some would have the first five guys in a tier (Embiid, Parker, Wiggins, Randle, and Exum). Say Vonleh and Gordon are in the second tier.

My top tier is Embiid, by himself.

I think Embiid is the only difference-maker in the group. I like Parker and Wiggins, but if they are your best player, you are going to be in the lottery every year.

Embiid has natural instincts. I doubt he was coached on much of this stuff, considering how quick his stops have been, and that he just started playing basketball. When he takes the ball on the low block, he inside-pivots like Duncan, and he plays from there: Faces, rips through or passes. Itís awesome. I always want bigs that can punish the defense.

His feet are great and he can block shots. Look at his numbers and look at his minutes. He has a chance to be a terrific player.

Scout 2: If heís healthy and I have a pair of balls I take him no. 1. He has legitimate size. Great hands and feet. He will block shots immediately. He doesnít understand positioning yet, but he is further along offensively than Olajuwon was at the same stage, and heís bigger than Hakeem. Hakeem was 6-foot-9. Embiid is 7 feet, maybe bigger, eventually. He has the best upside pick of anyone in the draft.

Scout 3: If the medical staff clears him, he should go no. 1, but people are still freaked out about Oden. Before the concerns about his back ó which are real, by the way ó Iíd be very comfortable taking him one or two. Has all the ingredients: feet, hands, touch. Iíve watched him in practice, and he was automatic from 15 feet, which is something we didnít see him use a lot at Kansas.

He played with a little chipiness. Some of it was immaturity, but some of it was good, which shows he is competitive. Depending on how it falls with the decision-makers, Milwaukee is the kind of team that will feel pressured to take Parker over Embiid, because of the health risks, but who knows now with new ownership.

At our level, there has to be some motivation to get better. Are you doing it for you, or other people? With his background, you hope he really loves the game. But he seems focused and competitive.

Russillo: Agree with Scout 1. Heís my favorite player in this class. They donít make guys like this very often. Usually, when you see a guy at 7 feet who has barely played, he is a total project. It sounds like a simple question, but I always ask myself, ďCan he play basketball?Ē Embiid can. His improvement from month to month is unlike anything Iíve ever seen.

He catches in the post, cross-court passes to an open shooter, and is comfortable catching on the roll off a screen. His feet and timing on jumps are special; defensively he will anchor a team. In a league that is going smaller and smaller, a big that can move like he can is an advantage every night.

I realize this all changes if his back is a serious problem, but I donít want to hear that because Greg Oden got hurt that you canít draft Embiid. Thatís like saying, ďI donít sign Japanese pitchers because Daisuke Matsuzaka was terrible.Ē

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Another thing needs to be said here, those saying that Embiid going number one over Wiggins is crazy are ignoring Wiggins' problems. This scout sums it up better than me...

quote:

Scout 3: In general, interesting kid. In fairness to him he played in a very restricted system at Kansas. All interchangeable parts with designated spots, a lot of structure. When he got the ball, there wasnít a lot of room to create. He didnít force things, dealt with it well, but sometimes it hurt his rep. Not anywhere near ready, mentally, to take things over, which is unfair to say at this stage. Game isnít to the level of his athleticism. Humble, coachable, a positive kid, all good things.

Needs go-to moves. He doesnít have them yet. He has a high dribble. This is normal for a kid his age. Even Kobe and T-Mac struggled out of high school with go-to moves.

He needs to add a whole bunch of other stuff to be the scorer people think he can be. He needs to forget shooting 3s. His shot isnít great, but it isnít broken. Itís not as bad as Kidd-Gilchrist where you say, ďWhere do we start?Ē

Great natural movement. An NBA coach can still play him right away because he can defend. He defends the wings in isolation, which is extremely valuable. Physically he can do this right away.

Scout 2: I think in the draft, if Embiid is healthy, Wiggins goes no. 3. He will be lost in an NBA half-court offense. He is great in transition, but he has no ball skills. All right hand, no idea what to do without the ball. He struggles with confidence. He actually reminds me more of Gerald Green than any of these studs heís compared to.

Heís an erratic shooter and has no plan when attacking the rim. He will be easy to coach against with his limited game right now. Needs to find out what playing hard is. He tries hard, but I donít see that second gear. He would scare me as your franchiseís no. 1 pick, with all the stuff that will go along with being no. 1 in this class. Is he really a face of the franchise?

Defensively he can be a stopper right away. A lot of these coaches want to break down these young guys and limit their minutes because they donít trust them defensively. With him you can play him the minutes you need to develop him because, defensively, heís already there.



edit: this scout saying Wiggins should ignore shooting threes is being idiotic btw so take this opinion with a grain of salt. He just has work to do.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Smart is fried rice covered in sriracha.


Hmmm. I might get chinese for lunch.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Philly has the easiest draft this year. Take who is left, compliment that person with the 10th pick.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

If you're choosing between two guards that are probably better served being a 2 with a lightening-quick first step and crazy ability to get to the rim but suspect shooting I suppose taking the one who is 6-6 is probably better than the one who is 6-4.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Declan MacManus posted:

For at least the first year their offense would be the ugliest thing in the world. Who's taking shots from the outside on that team?

Wiggins will, you just have to be cool with him hitting only 35% of them.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Well that's what he shot in college anyway.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Lockback posted:

They moving the line back in?

If Larry Sanders stops imploding they could play Giannis at the 4 and play another wing shooter. Also, if the Bucks get Wiggins they shouldn't be trying to be good next year.

This is how Wiggins shoots threes


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i95iv9audN0

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003


I think both Mudiay and Towns will get drafted over him. This prediction is predicated on Towns beating out both Willie Caulie-Stein and Dakari Johnson (and Marcus Lee) for minutes at Kentucky.

I think my point is Okafor is a center through and through and he's 6'10 tops.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

MourningView posted:

6'10" is fine for a center though? Dwight is shorter than that. Okafor is the most polished of the three by a mile.

I hear you, it's just that I'm not sure Okafor has the ceiling others do. I'm only basing this on what I've seen so far which is just high school ball, mostly because I was watching Cliff. Towns is a legit 7 footer who can drain 3s, I could see him moving up boards. Mudiay is just awesome too.

I guess I'm just not as big on Okafor being the overall number one pick since most of what he does is dunk over high school kids. I'll be watching Duke for sure though so we'll all see.

Also why did Towns go to Kentucky? I just don't get it. A really talented big is going to ride the bench for Kentucky this year. I don't know if it is Towns, Dakari, WCS or Marcus Lee.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

I know some Sixer fans that are furiously publicly masturbating right now, which would be an anomaly in most cities not named Philadelphia.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

I just realized that if it goes 1. Embiid 2. Parker 3. Wiggins that it is eerily similar to 1984 with 1. Olajuwon 2. Bowie 3. Jordan.

I don't think Parker will fail like Bowie and Parker isn't 7'1 but you have to admit there are some similarities.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Any Kings fans want to tell me what's wrong with McLemore? Is there hope for him becoming more of a consistent scorer?

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Rick posted:

McLemore kind of reminds me of early Ced Ceballos before he broke out.

Whoa he attempted 9 three pointers in 93-94 and missed all of them, got traded to the Lakers and the next year he attempted 146 and made .397 of them. Man there's a crazy story there.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

His life story is like 8 mile.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Oh that's good, he's projected around 12 but go ahead and say idiotic poo poo and drop yourself to 17 and immediately cost yourself about 1.5m from the get-go.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

What a perfect pick for Minnesota.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

The silver lining here is how many ~Daario~ jokes we'll be saved from reading.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Man Wiggins to the Sixers would be unbelievable.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

I think the Kings and Smart is a great fit.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

So is Stauskas like the only one in this draft that can shoot?




Yes I know Hood and Wilcox can shoot

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

I hope the Kings don't draft McDermott. He's done-for if they do.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

xbilkis posted:

I think Marcus Smart is probably the closest to that so far this year.


I would never call a dude who is that much of a...just a warrior a potential bust. His shot is not great but if people haven't watched him play it's difficult to describe just how hard he gets after it. I know MV is down on him but I'd be really shocked if someone like him busted. He's a beast and at worst brings incredible energy off the bench.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Sherron Collins is 5'10 and a half tops with a huge giant Taco Bell problem. Smart is 6'4 or just under. That's really not a good comparison. You really think he'll suck? C'mon. When I say warrior I'm not using that hyperbole lightly like a superfan or something. He gets after it and that is a real thing not an imaginary homer thing to say, especially considering I hate his loving guts.

quote:

Smart makes a living inside the paint, as he relishes contact and gets to the free throw line nearly ten times per-40 minutes, while finishing 57% of his shots around the basket in the half-court. The role he will play in the NBA appears to be well defined, as he's very good in transition and on the pick and roll, and is more than capable of creating shots for himself and others, something he appears to have improved on in his sophomore year. Smart's assist to turnover and pure point ratio both increased notably this past season, particularly his ability to avoid coughing the ball up, as his turnover percentage decreased from an alarming 19% as a freshman to a much more manageable 14%.

Another area Smart is likely to excel in very early in the NBA is on the defensive end. With his size, strength and length, Smart is capable of guarding multiple positions, which gives his coach nice versatility to take advantage of in different schemes. He even proved strong enough to put a body on big men in certain stretches, showing the type of toughness and competitiveness NBA executives love. On top of that, he brings terrific anticipation skills for blocks, steals and rebounds, hauling in seven boards per-40 minutes and over three steals thanks to the intensity level and timing he displays.

On the downside, Smart still sports a very inconsistent jump-shot, something that didn't really improve from his freshman to sophomore seasons. His shooting mechanics leave a lot to be desired, as he dips the ball violently, and fades forward and sometimes sideways on his release. That wouldn't be that big of an issue if Smart didn't take as many jumpers as he doesónearly half of his field goal attempts came from beyond the arc, and he hit just 30% of them, many being contested ones early in the shot clock.

Smart is not a non-shooter by any stretch, but his poor decision making hampers his percentages significantly. He will have some very ugly low-efficiency nights in the NBA against better-organized defenses until he learns how to reel himself in and plays within his limitations.

Other issues, such as his reputation for flopping, and the very short fuse he showed pushing a fan in the stands at Texas Tech, are ones NBA teams will likely want to explore further during the draft process. This reportedly wasn't the first time he put hands on someone according to what we've been told by reliable sources. Additionally, while many are quick to laud his intangibles as a winner, it's important to note that he did not win a NCAA Tournament game in his two years at Oklahoma State.

With that said, it's difficult not to admire the Joakim Noah style competitiveness Smart brings to the table, which can be very valuable in a long 82 game regular season, particularly for organizations trying to improve their ďteam culture.Ē

Matchups against the likes of Kansas, Iowa State, Baylor, Gonzaga, Oklahoma, Texas and Memphis have given us ample opportunity to evaluate Smart's very defined strengths and weaknesses as a prospect

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kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

I mean I guess we'll see. I don't mean to join his camp and go gung ho for Smart or anything but OSU's implosion had a lot more going on than just Smart's issues.

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