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Tunicate
May 15, 2012





if just one player doesn't understand it it's the player's problem

if multiple players don't get it then the game has a problem communicating

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BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

Tunicate posted:

if just one player doesn't understand it it's the player's problem

if multiple players don't get it then the game has a problem communicating

Well, I got it pretty quickly. The sound effects do a good enough keeping time that it stood out although it did take some time for it to click what was happening at first.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

The magnificent story of Dwayt al-Shrood.



food court bailiff posted:

I'm 1000000% with you on the Fire Witches, they really gently caress up an otherwise gorgeous and cool area. The Jailers on the other hand? They're just...kind of nonissues. You often see them in narrow corridors, yeah, but they're either patrolling an extremely short and predictable route or they are stationary in an area with blind corners to ambush them from or at the end of dead-ends you really don't need to go down. If you're really having issues, the Dungeon is one of very few places where you can blast arrows through the grate sections, so it's very possible to kite them and fight them on your own terms if you're patient.

The HP-draining thing is stressful, yeah, and it makes it seem like they're tougher than they are, but after going through it a second time the Dungeon is one of my favorite places in the game because the whole thing is surprisingly tightly designed. You're right, it's not "stealth" as such, but it's designed around a kind of a pseudo-stealth based off of simple avoidance and route planning.

God I hate Fire Witches, though.

What area we're the fire witches in? I played through ds3 once and it sucked compared to 1 and 2 so i don't remember much.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

This post brought to you by RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS.
RAID: SHADOW LEGENDS - It's for your phoneTM #ad



ilmucche posted:

What area we're the fire witches in? I played through ds3 once and it sucked compared to 1 and 2 so i don't remember much.

They were right after the smoke witches

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


They're those huge, white clad dudes in Irythill who blast you fire trails from long range and impale you on their staffs up close.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Keep on keeping on.


ilmucche posted:

What area we're the fire witches in? I played through ds3 once and it sucked compared to 1 and 2 so i don't remember much.

Irithyll, they're the ones with the tall staves.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

The magnificent story of Dwayt al-Shrood.



Ah yeah, that whole area sucked. Much like a lot of ds3. I should go back and give it another try, maybe it's aged better. Even places that seemed like they should be cool like ash lake were real bad.

oldpainless posted:

They were right after the smoke witches

I don't know what I expected.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




What reboots rank as the most unnecessary?

DmC: Devil May Cry is still baffling in hindsight, though it was published by Capcom before Resident Evil VII. What people wanted was a bigger-budget DMC4 so that half the game wasn't a rehash. Instead they started over with a different studio:

  • Dante is now a completely different character in both character and design. Take away his white-hair, cocky attitude, and replace him with a dark-haired punk who looks suspiciously similar to the game's director.

  • Being weirdly hostile to fans of the previous games. Usually an installment in any franchise tries to welcome everybody, fans and newcomers. Metroid Prime didn't have a scene where Samus torches a copy of Super Metroid because 2D is old-fashioned.

  • A layer of heavy drama and edgy social commentary that didn't exist in the original series. Focusing too much on the plot in Devil May Cry is like giving a poo poo about Columbo's personal life over his work.

  • Didn't release at 60FPS on consoles.

  • No lock-on, no taunts, and a binary weapon-system which made certain foes no-sell your weapons because they're the wrong colour.

Phigs
Jan 23, 2019


BioEnchanted posted:

Something I always hate although this comes from the other direction with regards to difficulty, is when people just don't understand an obstacle and claim the game is bad - there's a really neat puzzle in Anima: Gate of Memories involving moving spikes and a review kept showing them dying at it over and over again as if it was the game's fault that they failed to notice that the spikes were synced to the background music. All you have to do is move with rhythm and basically dance through them but they just didn't notice. It's not even a mandatory puzzle, it only blocks off a totally optional sidequest area, but it's frustrating when you know what they need to do and it's just like "It's an easy thing, just slow down a little."

I zone out game music most of the time even on the rare occasions I don't just turn it off. That part would have hosed me too if I needed cues from the music.

moosecow333
Mar 15, 2007

Super-Duper Supermen!


Inspector Gesicht posted:

What reboots rank as the most unnecessary?

DmC: Devil May Cry is still baffling in hindsight, though it was published by Capcom before Resident Evil VII. What people wanted was a bigger-budget DMC4 so that half the game wasn't a rehash. Instead they started over with a different studio:

[list]

[*] A layer of heavy drama and edgy social commentary that didn't exist in the original series. Focusing too much on the plot in Devil May Cry is like giving a poo poo about Columbo's personal life over his work.


When I saw the abortion via sniper rifle cutscene my eyes rolled so hard that they almost flew out of my head.

The game tried so hard to be gritty and cool but it just reminded me of a middle schooler trying way too hard to impress people while pretending they didnít care about what people thought.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


Inspector Gesicht posted:

What reboots rank as the most unnecessary?

DmC: Devil May Cry is still baffling in hindsight, though it was published by Capcom before Resident Evil VII. What people wanted was a bigger-budget DMC4 so that half the game wasn't a rehash. Instead they started over with a different studio:

DmC has to be among 'most unnecessary' just by virtue of being still in the franchise's heyday, that's the Amazing Spider-Man mistake right there. A few of their ideas were... almost pretty logical ('this series is popular in the west, so let's give it to a western developer' worked really well for stuff like Metroid Prime), but they were always going to fumble when rebooting that close to the original run.

But if you want 'bad reboots', I need to point to Bomberman: Act Zero. Bomberman wasn't an awful candidate for a reboot at the time, all things considered; it'd sat largely dormant for about a console generation, was under new ownership, and was mostly acclaimed for its specific gameplay, so a revamp for the HD gaming generation was a pretty solid pick... until they screwed up literally every single element of the game. Even the DmC reboot had gameplay shine through to the point it's sort of a cult classic now, but there is no redemption to be found in Act Zero.

Smirking_Serpent
Aug 27, 2009






Buglord

i never played it, but i'll always "remember" Act Zero had like 100 levels and no saves? or was it continues? either way it sounds like it sucked even without the redesign.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


Smirking_Serpent posted:

i never played it, but i'll always "remember" Act Zero had like 100 levels and no saves? or was it continues? either way it sounds like it sucked even without the redesign.

Yeah. When I said they screwed up every single element, I mean EVERY SINGLE ELEMENT. They didn't even have local multiplayer or a camera that showed you most of the arena.

It's one of those instances where they screw up a franchise so badly that they ruin things you didn't even think would enter their mind to change.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!


Assassin's Creed origins having an automatic "camel just go where I tell you" button is terrific, it's the one thing RDR2 needs to fix it, but why in earth does it default to "follow road" and I have to hit another button after for "go to objective". When would I ever just want to follow the road aimlessly?

Samuringa
Mar 27, 2017

Best advice I was ever given?

"Ticker, you'll be a lot happier once you stop caring about the opinions of a culture that is beneath you."

I learned my worth, learned the places and people that matter.

Opened my eyes.


Chases, mostly. Like putting your camel on autopilot while you shoot back at your pursuers.

bony tony
Aug 9, 2013



Also because it's cool to just ride on your camel for awhile and listen to podcasts.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk


Dash Rendar posted:

hmm counterpoint: it ends too soon.

You got sass kid I like ur style

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

bony tony posted:

Also because it's cool to just ride on your camel for awhile and listen to podcasts.

Like the cowboys of old

Necrothatcher
Mar 26, 2005






Fun Shoe

Bogmonster posted:

But the absolute worst thing is the companion Sera. It's like someone saw Joss Whedon's schtick and decided to write a wacky lesbian elf who like, fights the power man, and is really sassy and good at stuff. I mean, none of the characters are brilliant but Jesus she is bad. I don't remember it being this lovely in Dragon Age 1.

The flipside was that it was insanely satisfying to eventually choose to boot her out of the party for good. I think Sera remains the only RPG party member I've ever been so annoyed with I fired them.

Sunswipe
Feb 5, 2016

STILL ANGRY ABOUT CHEESE


Necrothatcher posted:

The flipside was that it was insanely satisfying to eventually choose to boot her out of the party for good. I think Sera remains the only RPG party member I've ever been so annoyed with I fired them.

When I got to the point in Mass Effect where the game goes "You must let either Ash or Kaiden die!!!" my reaction was a disappointed "Only one?"

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Necrothatcher posted:

The flipside was that it was insanely satisfying to eventually choose to boot her out of the party for good. I think Sera remains the only RPG party member I've ever been so annoyed with I fired them.

She's also the only companion you can fire at any point, probably for precisely that reason.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




Sunswipe posted:

When I got to the point in Mass Effect where the game goes "You must let either Ash or Kaiden die!!!" my reaction was a disappointed "Only one?"

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



ilmucche posted:

Ah yeah, that whole area sucked. Much like a lot of ds3. I should go back and give it another try, maybe it's aged better. Even places that seemed like they should be cool like ash lake were real bad.


I've been replaying the trilogy with the various overhaul mods (Daughters of Ash, Auger of Darkness, Cinders) and the combat in 3 is definitely the weakest. Enemies are far too fast compared to you, aggro distance makes half the areas feel like the Iron Keep, half the weapons are uselessly slow. Compare it to DS1, where almost every fight feels like a carefully designed setpiece.

The visuals/music are really good at least, and it has some of my favourite boss designs/fights in any game ever - Abyss Watchers, Twin Princes, that loving tree. Even Deacons of the Deep is probably the most successful "horde boss" that From have managed.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008



Oh man, that brings back such wonderful memories of the ME2 thread where people were complaining that the hard-bitten veteran mercenary Zaeed couldn't lead a team without someone dying, disregarding the fact that practically 99% of his backstory is him leading a team where everyone else died

Also a surprising amount of people finding Garrus very, very attractive. I was one of them.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Keep on keeping on.


Strom Cuzewon posted:

I've been replaying the trilogy with the various overhaul mods (Daughters of Ash, Auger of Darkness, Cinders) and the combat in 3 is definitely the weakest. Enemies are far too fast compared to you, aggro distance makes half the areas feel like the Iron Keep, half the weapons are uselessly slow. Compare it to DS1, where almost every fight feels like a carefully designed setpiece.

The visuals/music are really good at least, and it has some of my favourite boss designs/fights in any game ever - Abyss Watchers, Twin Princes, that loving tree. Even Deacons of the Deep is probably the most successful "horde boss" that From have managed.

My main complaint about Dark Souls 3 has always been that the enemies move like Bloodborne characters but you move like a Dark Souls character.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Strom Cuzewon posted:

I've been replaying the trilogy with the various overhaul mods (Daughters of Ash, Auger of Darkness, Cinders) and the combat in 3 is definitely the weakest. Enemies are far too fast compared to you, aggro distance makes half the areas feel like the Iron Keep, half the weapons are uselessly slow. Compare it to DS1, where almost every fight feels like a carefully designed setpiece.

I don't think that's the case at all tbh. The enemies are only too fast for you if you play it like DS1. Your character is also a lot faster so you can deal with them just fine. I just did two playthroughs with a greathammer and a greatsword, they both felt quite powerful and I never had any problems with enemies being too fast for them. I wasn't playing with mods though so maybe that has something to do with it.

CJacobs posted:

My main complaint about Dark Souls 3 has always been that the enemies move like Bloodborne characters but you move like a Dark Souls character.

I hear people say this a lot but I don't really get it. You're not as fast as a Bloodborne character but you're way faster than a DS2 or especially DS1 character. Ditto for the enemies.

VanSandman
Feb 16, 2011
SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

CommissarMega posted:

Oh man, that brings back such wonderful memories of the ME2 thread where people were complaining that the hard-bitten veteran mercenary Zaeed couldn't lead a team without someone dying, disregarding the fact that practically 99% of his backstory is him leading a team where everyone else died

Also a surprising amount of people finding Garrus very, very attractive. I was one of them.

ME2 was the most Fandom-ish thread I've ever seen in Games.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007


garrus' embrace would be unpleasantly pointy but i would endure it

Weird Sandwich
Dec 28, 2011


The Moon Monster posted:

I hear people say this a lot but I don't really get it. You're not as fast as a Bloodborne character but you're way faster than a DS2 or especially DS1 character. Ditto for the enemies.

Bloodborne's faster paced combat was balanced around being able to regain health through the rallying system though, which DS3 lacks in comparison. Not to mention parrying in Bloodborne having a more generous window. In general Bloodborne is a game that was built specifically to suit a faster pace of combat, while DS3 had the faster pace grafted on to an already existing combat system that it doesn't suit nearly as well.

This isn't really too much of problem up until Irithyll, but from there it starts to get frustrating.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010

Like a bull in a china shop.

Well, if the bull owned the china shop.


CommissarMega posted:

Oh man, that brings back such wonderful memories of the ME2 thread where people were complaining that the hard-bitten veteran mercenary Zaeed couldn't lead a team without someone dying, disregarding the fact that practically 99% of his backstory is him leading a team where everyone else died

Also a surprising amount of people finding Garrus very, very attractive. I was one of them.

Some of the suicide mission really could've used some better signposting for why certain bad choices were actually bad; while I don't necessarily disagree with all the choices for good and bad agents for every role when I actually looked at the list, there's a few that just feel... kinda arbitrary without the game actually telling you why.

Zaeed's one of them. Basically all of his incidental dialog is him talking about being the only survivor of some team or another, but the game never really points out that you basically just became part of the running gag. The one that got me was that sending Samara as a fire team leader is a bad choice; in retrospect that does make sense, as she was always a lone agent, but the game never really says that's what's going on.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




In DS3 everyone but you has cool, fancy moves.

The plot of the Surge 2 is hot garbage but I enjoyed the combat more than any Souls game. Your healing resource is tied soley to the damage you deal to enemies. This means if you're at poo poo at parrying you can simply face-tank most bosses. You can also change your build at any time for no cost beyond the parts needed to level-up equipment.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."




"This is a difficult job, Shepard. We need a TECH expert, one who uses their OMNI-TOOL for TECHNOLOGICAL PURPOSES, to go through the ven--"

Aha, the vents! Thane, you're up. Nothing gets past this guy.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Keep on keeping on.


I sent Jacob to the vents as he wished for the crime of boring me as a character and he survived

Strom Cuzewon
Jul 1, 2010



The Moon Monster posted:

I don't think that's the case at all tbh. The enemies are only too fast for you if you play it like DS1. Your character is also a lot faster so you can deal with them just fine. I just did two playthroughs with a greathammer and a greatsword, they both felt quite powerful and I never had any problems with enemies being too fast for them. I wasn't playing with mods though so maybe that has something to do with it.


Tbf I was rubbish with hammers even in DS2, so it might just be I suck at heavy weapons. Kicked rear end with the Mirrah Greatsword though.


VanSandman posted:

ME2 was the most Fandom-ish thread I've ever seen in Games.

Bioware games were always more about teaming up with fun characters than they were about the plot, and ME2 loving nailed that more than the rest. Why do I always take Garrus with me on missions? Is it because he's useful? Is it because having a sniper is really good? Nah, Garrus is my friend and I like shooting aliens with him.

Perestroika
Apr 8, 2010



exquisite tea posted:

"This is a difficult job, Shepard. We need a TECH expert, one who uses their OMNI-TOOL for TECHNOLOGICAL PURPOSES, to go through the ven--"

Aha, the vents! Thane, you're up. Nothing gets past this guy.

In fairness (and not at all because I fell for that exact thing ), the briefing is not too clear about the particular circumstances beforehand. The dialogue also emphasized stealth as much as tech capability, and makes it sound like the picked character would have to single-handedly sneak past the enemy to do some covert hacking behind enemy lines. So in that context, it sounded sensible to take the guy whose entire deal was being a sneaky independent assassin who can also do some tech on the side.

Of course, in practice that whole thing then worked out to "picked character walks along a big tube right next to the fireteam, drops down directly on the other side of the door that stops them, then does some hacking".

Dewgy
Nov 10, 2005

bok bok bok





College Slice

Cleretic posted:

DmC has to be among 'most unnecessary' just by virtue of being still in the franchise's heyday, that's the Amazing Spider-Man mistake right there. A few of their ideas were... almost pretty logical ('this series is popular in the west, so let's give it to a western developer' worked really well for stuff like Metroid Prime), but they were always going to fumble when rebooting that close to the original run.

But if you want 'bad reboots', I need to point to Bomberman: Act Zero. Bomberman wasn't an awful candidate for a reboot at the time, all things considered; it'd sat largely dormant for about a console generation, was under new ownership, and was mostly acclaimed for its specific gameplay, so a revamp for the HD gaming generation was a pretty solid pick... until they screwed up literally every single element of the game. Even the DmC reboot had gameplay shine through to the point it's sort of a cult classic now, but there is no redemption to be found in Act Zero.

Wasnít there also an unnecessarily horny anime Bomberman reboot around the same time, or am I thinking of a different franchise?

Also I donít know if it counts as a reboot exactly, but the Japanese music game series Popín Music got an Xbox Live Arcade exclusive port called Beat Ďn Groovy where they re-did all of the character art and graphics, and it was...dire.



The original series isnít exactly high art, but this thingís like a dollar store knockoff of it, except officially made by Konami.

Sunswipe
Feb 5, 2016

STILL ANGRY ABOUT CHEESE


CJacobs posted:

I sent Jacob to the vents as he wished for the crime of boring me as a character and he survived

I looked up a chart for how the game works out who lives and dies to make sure Miranda died. No one pisses off my Jack and lives to tell the tale.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

We'll make diamonds from their ashes. Take them into battle with us.

Craft a Diamond Dog diamond?
Nah.   Let's do it!




College Slice

Dewgy posted:

an unnecessarily horny anime Bomberman reboot

Another solid phrase I never would've experienced without this thread

Veotax
May 16, 2006



Sunswipe posted:

I looked up a chart for how the game works out who lives and dies to make sure Miranda died. No one pisses off my Jack and lives to tell the tale.

Because of the apparently shoddily way the Suicide Mission is built, Miranda is the hardest character the kill.

With everyone else if they are the wrong choice for that section of if they aren't loyal they or someone else will die, except Miranda, she will miraculously survive everything. Why? Because she has one line of dialogue in a cutscene. The game doesn't do something like giving that line to another character, no, Miranda must be alive to say that one line.

That super important line? Pretty much something like "who are you taking on your squad for this, Shepard?". Clearly something only Miranda can say.

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Glare Seethe
May 15, 2004

Tenochtitlan, looking east.


Cleretic posted:

The one that got me was that sending Samara as a fire team leader is a bad choice; in retrospect that does make sense, as she was always a lone agent, but the game never really says that's what's going on.

Years later and I am still sore about this. What pissed me off even more at the time was reading afterwards that Miranda would've been a good choice; like, I deliberately avoided giving it to Miranda because I had just watched a long cutscene where it was made clear everyone hated and distrusted her, why on earth would I make her a team leader? Yeah Samara was a lone agent but she was still capable and trusted. Bah.

RIP Tali.

RIP Legion.

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