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bony tony
Aug 9, 2013



It belongs in the other thread, but I like how there's a faction obsessed with guns and their past, who want you to help them with a ridiculous task that's obviously a terrible idea, and they're called the Boomers.

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rydiafan
Mar 17, 2009

EEEEEENT
OOOOORT
EEEEEENT
OOOOORT




They're also violently xenophobic.

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

Dreams, Amelia - dreams and false alarms

Megamarm

On the other hand, they have invested in sustainable energy and agriculture, and operate one of only two functional classrooms in the entire Mojave. IRL boomers would have ditched that poo poo as soon as they were done with it in favor of lower property taxes

Strategic Tea
Sep 1, 2012

It's not the red form anymore.
Incidental bones can file under the greens.


The little thing dragging down NV is that anyone in the 21st century thought that there was any valid or good faith argument left to explore in "but they made the trains run on time".

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007


iirc chris avellone's opinion on the new vegas factions was "anything is better than what we had before" so he was down on the NCR in particular, which is a little hard to swallow with how the legion is presented

one of the many things wrong with lonesome road is that you're stuck with avellone's mouthpiece for the antagonist, and ulysses is going to make you sit through his Very Important opinions on nation-building whether you like it or not

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.

Oxxidation posted:

one of the many things wrong with lonesome road is that you're stuck with avellone's mouthpiece for the antagonist, and ulysses is going to make you sit through his Very Important opinions on nation-building whether you like it or not

This is entirely why it's by far my least favourite of the DLC, which is a shame because the general concept for it is sound.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007


ulysses was great in the first 3 dlc's as this exhausted itinerant ghost of a character flitting from story to story like a dark mirror of the courier themselves, but in LR avellone wanted him to be so important that he basically turned the courier into a prop for his own backstory. that's never a good idea! even if it had been done well (and it definitely wasn't) i've spent 120 hours with my player character already, i don't appreciate this mumbly schmuck telling me what i did or didn't do and why he's so upset about it

e: to accept ulysses' grievance against the courier as legitimate, you have to both contort your interpretation of the courier's character so that it fits his description of events, and internalize ulysses' own philosophy of nation-building enough to find it relatable/sympathetic. that's too much to ask, especially because ulysses' values are fairly abstract and presented in such a fragmented and confrontational way

Oxxidation has a new favorite as of 18:19 on May 3, 2021

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005


Yeah the little hints and buildup you get from stuff in the 3 other dlcs were really cool, I was sorta hoping they'd let you build Ulysses in the character creator and go through some events as him to build his personality and backstory the way you wanted or something.

bony tony
Aug 9, 2013



Ulysses: "Sorry will never be enough."
Courier: "Sorry is kind of going to have to be enough, buddy. It was just a job."

Tunicate
May 15, 2012





thebardyspoon posted:

Yeah the little hints and buildup you get from stuff in the 3 other dlcs were really cool, I was sorta hoping they'd let you build Ulysses in the character creator and go through some events as him to build his personality and backstory the way you wanted or something.

>What are you talking about, it was just a job?
>(Lie)What are you talking about, it was just a job?

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

bony tony posted:

Ulysses: "Sorry will never be enough."
Courier: "Sorry is kind of going to have to be enough, buddy. It was just a job."

Sorry... and a bunch of bullets.

F:NV was missing an equippable cigarillo so you could go all Man with No Name and that was definitely a missed opportunity.

Morpheus
Apr 18, 2008

My favourite little monsters


Tunicate posted:

>What are you talking about, it was just a job?
>(Lie)What are you talking about, it was just a job?

More games need to let you make distinctions in your words like this, even if it affects nothing.

Anyway thing dragging down Warframe for me is that I can't stop playing the loving thing. I recognize that it's a game whose mecha ICS are designed explicitly to get me, specifically, to never stop playing it, and lo and behold it works.

At least I can drag myself away from it every now and then for a few rounds of other games...sometimes.

Evilreaver
Feb 26, 2007

GEORGE IS GETTIN' AUGMENTED!

Dinosaur Gum

Morpheus posted:

More games need to let you make distinctions in your words like this, even if it affects nothing.

Anyway thing dragging down Warframe for me is that I can't stop playing the loving thing. I recognize that it's a game whose mecha ICS are designed explicitly to get me, specifically, to never stop playing it, and lo and behold it works.

At least I can drag myself away from it every now and then for a few rounds of other games...sometimes.

One of my favorite moments like this would be in Pathologic 2, where a town is being decimated by a murderous, supernatural plague, and you're a doctor working to help the people. As you enter the town hall (now an emergency command center) and talk to the clerk, she asks "are you here because you brought in a baby?"

Your choices:
- "You thought *I* brought in a baby?"
- "You thought I *brought in* a baby?"
- "You thought I brought in a *baby*?"

Paper Tiger
Jun 17, 2007

torn apart by idle hands



I played through Lonesome Road recently, and I lolled in real life when Ulysses revealed that his name comes from Ulysses S. Grant, his rationale being that Grant fought to unify the North and South under one flag, and he wants to unify the NCR and Legion under one flag. I mean, I get it (even though he's doing a poo poo job of what he says he wants to do), but you couldn't pick someone cooler to name yourself after?

Also, with high enough speech, you can have the last conversation with him end pretty much like this:

Ulysses: I hate you for fostering a fledgling nation and then indirectly causing its destruction!
Courier: What if I foster another fledgling nation and then *don't* indirectly cause its destruction?
Ulysses: Oh, I didn't realize that was an option. Well, that'd be fine I guess. Let's be friends!

christmas boots
Oct 15, 2012

To these sing-alongs of siren songs
To oohs to ahhs to big applause
With all of my anger I scream and shout
America, I love you but you're freaking me out


Biscuit Hider

Grant gets kind of a raw deal historically, he did crush the first incarnation of the KKK after all.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



What I think people don't get about ulysses is his hatred of the courier is him projecting his own hatred towards himself onto the courier.

Dude let himself be used by caeser to destroy his own and other tribes, stamp out communities, and cause devastation without thinking of his own role in that process was.

That's why he's always talking poo poo about the courier no matter which faction you ally with.

On the other hand I can see why people don't get that out of the dlc, cause ulysses has a nearly terminal case of avellone dialogue. A few more weeks of that and he'd end up sounding like the grieving mother.

christmas boots posted:

Grant gets kind of a raw deal historically, he did crush the first incarnation of the KKK after all.
He was in all honesty a poo poo politician. Massively corrupt bureaucracy under his tenure. And his faction of the republicans wanted to crush any civil service reform bill. Which was sorely needed at the time.

Gaius Marius has a new favorite as of 19:26 on May 3, 2021

Your Gay Uncle
Feb 16, 2012
EXCUSE ME WHILE I HELP DOZENS OF MEXICANS FUNNEL HOT TAR UP MY MOTHERS ASS WITH A TRAFFIC CONE

The Binding of Isaac DLC Repentance really fucks with the curse rate.

Seems like you'd get one or two before the DLC, but now your'e lucky to get one floor that isn't cursed. It wouldn't be so bad if there was some benifit to a cursed room, like maybe an increase for a Devil Room or more curse chests, but all they do is make the game more annoying instead. I had a run last night where every single floor was cursed.

Stexils
Jun 4, 2008



i didn't dislike ulysses solely because i like his voice. VA really carried that DLC

Stexils
Jun 4, 2008



if ulysses had ben shapiros voice lonesome road would have gone from "controversial" to "people are getting fired"

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007


his delivery worked a lot better when his lines consisted of ominous quips in other characters' backstories. when he's monologuing at you in that same gravely murmur it gets more than a little tedious

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007



If you're a Legion woman, you can derail his monologuing by calling him dickless.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005
THIS CUSTOM TITLE WILL COME IN HANDY WHILE LURKING


Your Gay Uncle posted:

The Binding of Isaac DLC Repentance really fucks with the curse rate.

Seems like you'd get one or two before the DLC, but now your'e lucky to get one floor that isn't cursed. It wouldn't be so bad if there was some benifit to a cursed room, like maybe an increase for a Devil Room or more curse chests, but all they do is make the game more annoying instead. I had a run last night where every single floor was cursed.

Did you go from playing on normal to playing on hard? The curse rate on hard has always been stupidly high. Maybe they bumped it up on normal too now...

The curses are really something dragging that whole game down in general. Really all more of an annoyance than actual difficulty, aside from curse of the blind which is lovely, unfun difficulty. There's also curse of darkness which makes the game darker and harder to see, which is on the short list of worst possible game mechanics. If it's a horror game then fine whatever but otherwise it shouldn't be hard to see what I'm doing.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Playing the Link's Awakening remake and loving most of it, but I don't recall the original being this stingy. There are several minibosses you need bombs and arrows to kill and a fairly limited supply of both for a large part of the game.

DoubleNegative
Jan 27, 2010

The most virtuous child in the entire world.

Someone in this thread mentioned it the last time there was a discussion about Ulysses, and so it was on the tip of my thoughts as I was going through the DLC about 6 months back. Ulysses has such an awkward, stilted manner of speaking. It's like he doesn't use any pronouns at all when he's speaking. "(I) Spoke with Caesar about the bonfire. (Then I) Went to the bonfire later. Nobody (there) was singing. (I) Made them sing."

He sounds like someone very badly trying to do a take on Rorschach's narration from the Watchmen movie.

JackSplater
Nov 20, 2014

Metal Coat? It's already active?!


The Moon Monster posted:

Did you go from playing on normal to playing on hard? The curse rate on hard has always been stupidly high. Maybe they bumped it up on normal too now..

It does feel like they bumped up the curse rate on hard. And they confirmed reducing the drop rate for soul hearts from blue fires on hard. They lowered it on normal too at first, but apparently decided that was too harsh and reverted it.

MadDogMike
Apr 9, 2008

Can I come out and play?

Oxxidation posted:

iirc chris avellone's opinion on the new vegas factions was "anything is better than what we had before" so he was down on the NCR in particular, which is a little hard to swallow with how the legion is presented

one of the many things wrong with lonesome road is that you're stuck with avellone's mouthpiece for the antagonist, and ulysses is going to make you sit through his Very Important opinions on nation-building whether you like it or not

Yeah, definitely can't agree with Avellone, like I mentioned the NCR is more chasing the ideal of the USA rather than "what we had before" (which I noted the Legion probably was closer to). They're certainly having a lot of problems living up to their good intentions, but I put them well ahead of the horrors the pre-War US was cheerfully leaping into. Now there's a good story to be had in "can you do better at those ideals or are you doomed to fail like the USA did?" but I can't call the NCR especially bad by nation-state standards, whereas the Legion... yeah, can't see them surviving even if they "won", too many fatal flaws in their system even if you overlook the obvious evil. If nothing else, the almost inevitable loss of Caesar in the near future (as in, happens unless a Courier happens to defy probability) practically guarantees its collapse.

Stexils posted:

i didn't dislike ulysses solely because i like his voice. VA really carried that DLC

Yeah, he was awesome to listen to even though he went far beyond Sturgeon's Law in regards to how much was crap. Though the Legion support I'm not entirely sure of, he seemed more like he was trying desperately to justify his support in retrospect for a conquering nation that colonized his tribe (and realizing he really couldn't deep down probably).

DoubleNegative posted:

Someone in this thread mentioned it the last time there was a discussion about Ulysses, and so it was on the tip of my thoughts as I was going through the DLC about 6 months back. Ulysses has such an awkward, stilted manner of speaking. It's like he doesn't use any pronouns at all when he's speaking. "(I) Spoke with Caesar about the bonfire. (Then I) Went to the bonfire later. Nobody (there) was singing. (I) Made them sing."

He sounds like someone very badly trying to do a take on Rorschach's narration from the Watchmen movie.

I tend to support the fanon that English isn't his first language (his tribe probably had their own), so he tends to be very stilted at best in it.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I have special eyes.

Just think of all the cool stuff I can see.


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Gonna disagree here, I donít think changing how dark souls did it is doing it wrong and The Surge is a faster game so having a heal animation just would not have worked.

I keep getting souls likes because they should be my cup of tea and the Surge games are the only ones Iíve really enjoyed.

I mean, I don't wanna sound like I'm trying to be prescriptive about it. Just that to me etsus isn't merely "you have finite healing between checkpoints" it's also the risk/reward scenarios created by the animation time. That formula can be played with, but it will inevitably feel less and less like Dark Souls as a result.

Though I'm also a rebel who maintains that Sekrio isn't really a Soulslike because of all the fundamentally different poo poo it does, even if it has bonfire and estus equivalents.

tripwood posted:

The only ethical thing to do in the Mojave is to super-sledge in the face/balls all the factions until there's no one standing.

Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

Life's just better with Ominous Gloves.


Bussamove posted:

RE3 is much more of a linear game. There's looking around in areas for items to progress but each area is much smaller, there's nothing even close to the scope of RPD.

Claire's campaign hits the same main plot beats as Leon's but you'll encounter different things in different places, and it ties up different plot points. The most notable difference is fighting Birken in the labs as you escape instead of Mr. X. There's also one final playthrough to get the true ending, but if you didn't enjoy a single playthrough don't feel the need to slog through two more.
I'm three hours into RE3, and my god, it's infinitely better in every way. The environments are gorgeous and feel cinematic, there's a dodge button, there's no loving colour-coded keys... it's great. There's a constant escalation of threat, and the player goals are clearly communicated. I don't feel like the game is deliberately wasting my time.

Then I found myself back in that drat police station. I quit playing for the night at the entrance, but I had a very strong "oh gently caress off" reaction to seeing the lobby.

marshmallow creep
Dec 10, 2008

I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me



Squidster posted:

I'm three hours into RE3, and my god, it's infinitely better in every way. The environments are gorgeous and feel cinematic, there's a dodge button, there's no loving colour-coded keys... it's great. There's a constant escalation of threat, and the player goals are clearly communicated. I don't feel like the game is deliberately wasting my time.

Then I found myself back in that drat police station. I quit playing for the night at the entrance, but I had a very strong "oh gently caress off" reaction to seeing the lobby.

If it helps, they're using the map (going back to the station was something the original RE3 did as well, so it was expected) but they structure it very differently. You're not going to be there half the game like RE2remake.

small ghost
Jan 30, 2013



Lonesome road is weird, it worked best for me if I took it as the story of someone who's gone completely mental and is taking his issues out on some random because all the things Ulysses were saying completely failed to mesh with the character I was playing - even though I was low-key playing that game as though my character had movie amnesia and didn't remember anything from before being shot in the head, which is kind of the ideal assumption to make Ulysses' dialogue work but it still didn't.

The attempt at the end to make the player character feel responsible for the nukes just failed completely for me because it was so obviously not my character's fault or my responsibility, plus since I was playing the independent path, on a meta level it would be pretty good for the Legion and the NCR to both get black eyes because some crazy guy is on a tear. Like, it was hard to feel really responsible for that situation and easy to be like "you know what, you pressed the launch button, this is your thing, I'm just here to save my cute robot." Also in the post nuclear apocalypse, two more nukes falling really doesn't feel like that big a deal, especially when you have the body count of an RPG main character and your own personal mini-nuke launcher - oh, people are gonna die or get rad poisoning? Ok, have you looked outside recently?? Like obviously in real life I'd feel differently but this is a game about a hyperbolically absurd post-nuclear apocalypse world, the stakes needed to be way bigger for me to give a poo poo by that point.

Discussions around the Legion are weird for me because when I first played it i honestly assumed the fact that they're the worst and without redeeming features was the point; yeah, that kind of conquest economy can be very powerful but it's terrible to live in or next to and ultimately doomed to collapse, especially since it was all one classics nerd's vanity LARP at its core. You can side with them but that doesn't mean you should, or that you'll find out that they're secretly good or redeemable if you do; sometimes a slave economy is just a slave economy. But then I've heard that the devs wanted to develop them more and make them more ambiguous and I don't get how or why you'd even want to; sometimes systems and factions are just rotten to the core and how much short term power they can wield or if they make the trains run on time is totally irrelevant, and when I thought that's what the legion were meant to be, I thought that was a pretty good bit of writing in a game about building a new society.

bony tony
Aug 9, 2013



small ghost posted:

Discussions around the Legion are weird for me because when I first played it i honestly assumed the fact that they're the worst and without redeeming features was the point; yeah, that kind of conquest economy can be very powerful but it's terrible to live in or next to and ultimately doomed to collapse, especially since it was all one classics nerd's vanity LARP at its core. You can side with them but that doesn't mean you should, or that you'll find out that they're secretly good or redeemable if you do; sometimes a slave economy is just a slave economy. But then I've heard that the devs wanted to develop them more and make them more ambiguous and I don't get how or why you'd even want to; sometimes systems and factions are just rotten to the core and how much short term power they can wield or if they make the trains run on time is totally irrelevant, and when I thought that's what the legion were meant to be, I thought that was a pretty good bit of writing in a game about building a new society.

They do that "feet of clay" thing pretty well with Caesar's tumor, I thought. When Caesar dies and the Legate Lanius takes charge, all the lofty plans for making Vegas the new Rome are out the window.

small ghost
Jan 30, 2013



bony tony posted:

They do that "feet of clay" thing pretty well with Caesar's tumor, I thought. When Caesar dies and the Legate Lanius takes charge, all the lofty plans for making Vegas the new Rome are out the window.

Yeah, I like that. It's like, the Legion isn't meant to be actual Rome, it's what happens if one of those worrying Roman Golden Age history nerds gets the opportunity to realise his vision in real life. No one/very few people involved even know about Rome the way Caesar does because he's a Follower and had access to historical information in a way the average wasteland rear end in a top hat doesn't, so it's a post-nuclear war interpretation of an interpretation of an interpretation of millennia old history, all filtered through one guy's fancy dress obsession. And when he's gone - and the game sets up that he will be, sooner rather than later - the vision dies with him, and the Legion almost certainly collapses into factional infighting almost immediately.

Edit: also crucially the Roman Empire wasn't a one man dictatorship set up overnight like the Legion. What Caesar is trying to do bears no real resemblance to Roman history, which the player might well know even if the characters (other than Arcade) don't. It bears a lot more resemblance to the 20th century fascist love of Roman iconography, with Caesar using the same kind of reasoning behind adopting that aesthetic. I assumed that was the intent tbh.

small ghost has a new favorite as of 15:22 on May 4, 2021

Hedgehog Pie
May 19, 2012

Total fuckin' silence.

The NCR might be an extremely flawed bureaucracy, possibly fundamentally so, but it also has a number of legitimately good people in it who are trying to fight the system for the good of its citizens. By default that makes it infinitely better than the fascist slaver cosplay faction, even if that wasn't the overall libertarian intention. It's why life in our own developed world isn't as bad as it could be, dorks.

small ghost
Jan 30, 2013



Independent is the real best choice anyway. Hoover dam belongs to the people

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



small ghost posted:

Independent is the real best choice anyway. Hoover dam belongs to the people

When I think the people I think of the unelected dictator with an unwavering army of robots who arbitrarily decides who lives and dies.

Byzantine
Sep 1, 2007



Independent would be better if there was any indication you were building an anarcho-syndicalist commune where everybody takes turns to act as a sort of executive-officer-for-the-week and all that, rather than just feeling like a failsafe ending because you killed the plot.

small ghost
Jan 30, 2013



Gaius Marius posted:

When I think the people I think of the unelected dictator with an unwavering army of robots who arbitrarily decides who lives and dies.



Related, I might be misremembering but doesn't Yes Man heavily imply at the end that it's actually him who's really the de facto dictator of New Vegas now since he's the controller, and he possibly has plans you don't know about, so you're less the new dictator nor the great liberator and more of a robot's patsy? I might just have totally misinterpreted that at the time and it's been ages since I played through to the end, but I thought that was both apt and funny when I first finished the game so I'll be sad if I just misinterpreted it.

VanSandman
Feb 16, 2011
SWAP.AVI EXCHANGER

small ghost posted:



Related, I might be misremembering but doesn't Yes Man heavily imply at the end that it's actually him who's really the de facto dictator of New Vegas now since he's the controller, and he possibly has plans you don't know about, so you're less the new dictator nor the great liberator and more of a robot's patsy? I might just have totally misinterpreted that at the time and it's been ages since I played through to the end, but I thought that was both apt and funny when I first finished the game so I'll be sad if I just misinterpreted it.

That interpretation is valid, but it could also be seen as a reason Yes Man disappears following the Hoover Dam resolution.

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

Dreams, Amelia - dreams and false alarms

Megamarm

I believe it's been stated before that Yes Man's lines are supposed to imply some Benny 2.0 won't un-cap the pyramid on the Courier just like Benny/you did on House, not that he's plotting to betray you. But of course you can interpret them how you like.

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Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007


obsidian said that yes-man's "assertiveness" upgrade will give him the ability to say no to anyone except the courier, but that implication sure doesn't come across in the line itself

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