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Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



At the end of the day, Lara is an unrepentant serial rapist and mass murderer. I'm open to the possibility of Butcher doing something interesting with her, but I kinda hope she's forced to reckon with that along the way.

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Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

biracial bear for uncut posted:

I did, it added nothing that wasn't covered by other characters that aren't icky sex vampires. That same story said there were other secret societies doing the same work, and Thomas whined about drawing the short straw the entire time.

OK, yes, but you hate everything about the Dresden series

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



For my two cents, the Oblivion War is a neat concept that Jim Butcher is utterly the wrong person to try writing about.

KellHound
Jul 23, 2007

We are Not Amused

Cythereal posted:

At the end of the day, Lara is an unrepentant serial rapist and mass murderer. I'm open to the possibility of Butcher doing something interesting with her, but I kinda hope she's forced to reckon with that along the way.

There is a lot of talk about how Lara is worse than her dad because she has less brovado/aggroance. So it makes her more dangerous and Dresden is like whelp I'll deal with that problem when it bites me in the rear end. She kinda gets talk about the same way as Marcone only Marcone being dangerous has ACTUALLY screwed harry over a couple of times already and we got his sad back story. Lara hasn't gotten her sad motive to everything and also hasn't hurt Harry yet. It makes everything kinda puffed up over nothing and less sympathetic. Maybe the next book will change that? But there is only so long you can talk about someone being dangerous without them actually doing something. Edit: I mean doing something big IN the narrative. Obviously she has raped and murdered a poo poo ton off screen.

I like Thomas when he was living with Harry and not eating people. But him and Murphy hanging with Harry were my favorite parts of the earlier books. The two of them getting sidelines has made me not be as into the series since changes.

KellHound fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Apr 27, 2021

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


KellHound posted:

There is a lot of talk about how Lara is worse than her dad because she has less brovado/aggroance. So it makes her more dangerous and Dresden is like whelp I'll deal with that problem when it bites me in the rear end. She kinda gets talk about the same way as Marcone only Marcone being dangerous has ACTUALLY screwed harry over a couple of times already and we got his sad back story. Lara hasn't gotten her sad motive to everything and also hasn't hurt Harry yet. It makes everything kinda puffed up over nothing and less sympathetic. Maybe the next book will change that? But there is only so long you can talk about someone being dangerous without them actually doing something. Edit: I mean doing something big IN the narrative. Obviously she has raped and murdered a poo poo ton off screen.

I like Thomas when he was living with Harry and not eating people. But him and Murphy hanging with Harry were my favorite parts of the earlier books. The two of them getting sidelines has made me not be as into the series since changes.

Well, Thomas was still eating people. He was just taking very careful nibbles while giving them really great hairdos. And adopting a faux gay persona with an equally faux French accent. But even with those potentially problematic aspects, Thomas and Harry as roomies was pretty damned fun.

As for as Lara goes, her dad apparently occasionally raped his children as a show of dominance and she (from what we know) doesn't do that. Granted that the bit where she ate Madeline in Turn Coat is an exception, but then Madeline had burned her down to near bones at that point so figure that falls under "you take a shot at the Queen, you best not miss." So that's a point in the "not as bad as" column, I guess.

mastajake
Oct 3, 2005

My blade is unBENDING!


I think the idea is that she is more dangerous to Harry, because he doesn't (but knows he should) always see her as a threat.

biracial bear for uncut
Jun 9, 2009

ask me about being the most obnoxious person of all time

Forgetting the part where Lara raped her father into submission and left him essentially a mindless zombie in order to take over the family, eh?

The entire White Court existing at all is a huge problem, McCoy is right about them.

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013




KellHound posted:

There is a lot of talk about how Lara is worse than her dad because she has less brovado/aggroance. So it makes her more dangerous and Dresden is like whelp I'll deal with that problem when it bites me in the rear end.

I mean, what's he going to do about it? They're law-abiding signatories of the Unseelie Accords and even if Dresden wanted to take them out he doesn't have nearly enough political capital to do anything about it.

KellHound
Jul 23, 2007

We are Not Amused

I meant more she hasn't hosed up Harry poo poo the way Marcone (Or Leah or Mab the other baddies that Harry sometimes allies with) has. Because the shows of power we have seen from her have been stuff like raping her dad into submission which can be seen as both payback, her taking power for herself, amd saving her brother all in one or Madeline who as Everyone said if you take a shot at the queen best not miss.

Also, Lara doesn't have any children of her own to abuse. So I skeptically about being a line her dad crossed that she wouldn't.

I kinda hope she takes a swing at McCoy or something (Edit: Now that I think about it, her facing off against Ramieriz might be better). Because all the other powerful baddies that Dresden is wary of siding with have shown off what they can do more than Lara. Granted the point of the white court is that they don't show off that way, but like I said there is only so many times the narrative can say don't let your guard down this person is very very dangerous without having that follow through. It makes her character rather flat. Justine has been a more effective baddie than Lara at this point.

And yeah, McCoy is right about the white court.

Edit: Oh and Thomas's nibble thing is after he moved out of Harry's. While living with Harry he couldn't keep a mimimum wage job because he kept getting sexually assaulted at work. Implying that his power whammies people without him actively doing. So when he doesn't want to eat people, he's also a victim. So once he figures out the nibbling thing and then later is back to business as usual, he gets less complicated, less interesting, and is then sidelined. I think a writer who isn't Jim Butcher could have explored that more in an interesting way. But since Dresden is written by Jim Butcher it's probably best that Thomas's story didn't go into that.

KellHound fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 27, 2021

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009



There was also the bit in Peace Talks where Harry goes to meet her at her estate and finds her surrounded by evidence of people she's just eaten because she's expecting trouble and wants to have plenty of juice.

Personally, I'm expecting something along the lines of Harry using - probably not wielding himself, but using - Amoracchius during the wedding to Lara to cleanse all the Raiths of their Phage or something. We know marriages are a huge metaphysical deal in the Dresden-verse, we know Harry's got Amoracchius in a golf bag somewhere, we know that True Love burns Raiths, and we know they're engaged to be married. Something like that would also be right up Mab's alley.

Or less charitably, Amoracchius or something along those lines makes Harry immune to Lara's feeding so he has a hot new wife to replace the creaky old model.

the_steve
Nov 9, 2005

We're always hiring!



Yeah, I don't think for a second that Harry is going to "cure" the White Court. From a military standpoint, it would probably nerf their powers, which would be the exact opposite of what Mab wants seeing as how they're gearing up for a final showdown with the Outsiders, and Harry would be all grimly pragmatic about needing those monsters to fight the worse monsters. Now, he might cure his brother and future niece/nephew and only them, that way Thomas can live a normal life with a Justine who isn't murdered by her hungry vampire baby during birth, I could see them asspulling something like that.

I think a big thing to bear in mind with the White Court is that they are literally monsters and have a monster's sense of morality.
It's easy to project human morality onto them because they walk and talk like humans, so we expect there to be humanity on some base level, but they aren't human.
Obviously this doesn't excuse the cringey poo poo, since they're also fictional characters written by a human, but from an immersion standpoint, it's something to remember.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


the_steve posted:

Yeah, I don't think for a second that Harry is going to "cure" the White Court. From a military standpoint, it would probably nerf their powers, which would be the exact opposite of what Mab wants seeing as how they're gearing up for a final showdown with the Outsiders, and Harry would be all grimly pragmatic about needing those monsters to fight the worse monsters. Now, he might cure his brother and future niece/nephew and only them, that way Thomas can live a normal life with a Justine who isn't murdered by her hungry vampire baby during birth, I could see them asspulling something like that.

I think a big thing to bear in mind with the White Court is that they are literally monsters and have a monster's sense of morality.
It's easy to project human morality onto them because they walk and talk like humans, so we expect there to be humanity on some base level, but they aren't human.
Obviously this doesn't excuse the cringey poo poo, since they're also fictional characters written by a human, but from an immersion standpoint, it's something to remember.

The White Court is on the "good guys' side" because they have a vested interest in humanity and human civilization continuing pretty much as it is. They like shopping malls and the internet and the rule of law and that human stuff. A good portion of other supernaturals do not share that attitude. Hell compared to the Outsiders, Nicodemus and the Denarians are effectively "good guys."

TulliusCicero
Jul 29, 2017



Has anyone who played the RPG tell me if it's more pulpy and fun than World of Darkness stuff?

I love the idea of Wizards, vampires, Devils, and fae all just dealing with and interacting with each other, and WoD and CoD have that kind of a vibe, but you have to work way too had to justify why all of them would do that because the books and games are separate, and most of the supernaturals loving hate each other. Also I loving love VToM Bloodlines as a video game, but World of Darkness tabletop stuff get's unnecessarily edgy sometimes.

Dresden Files RPG from what I have seen actually go "yeah this party is made up of a Sorcerer, a White Court Vampire, a Warrior of God, and a Winter Court Fae are all working together on this greater threat/ negotiation/ scheme, why not?" And that owns to me

TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 19:51 on May 3, 2021

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



TulliusCicero posted:

Has anyone who played the RPG tell me if it's more pulpy and fun than World of Darkness stuff?

I love the idea of Wizards, vampires, Devils, and fae all just dealing with and interacting with each other, and WoD and CoD have that kind of a vibe, but you have to work way too had to justify why all of them would do that because the books and games are separate, and most of the supernaturals loving hate each other. Also I loving love VToM Bloodlines as a video game, but World of Darkness tabletop stuff get's unnecessarily edgy sometimes.

Dresden Files RPG from what I have seen actually go "yeah this party is made up of a Sorcerer, a White Court Vampire, a Warrior of God, and a Winter Court Fae are all working together on this greater threat/ negotiation/ scheme, why not?" And that owns to me

It's based on the FATE system, which I like a lot. It allows for really free-form character creation and generally just lets players do whatever the gently caress they want as long as they justify it.

If you wanna talk about the system itself, I'd go hit up the Traditional Games forum.

Deptfordx
Dec 23, 2013



You should know there's two DF Rpg's.

There's the original DFRPG.

Then there's Dresden Files Accelerated. Based on FATE accelerated and is as you might grok from the name, supposed to be a simpler faster playing version.

So bear that in mind if you're looking on Drivethru etc.

Can't speak to which is better, as I haven't played them.

Edit: Also if you're looking for supernaturals teaming up to play nice against bigger bads you might be interested in Monster of the Week. Using the very straight-forward Powered by the Apocalypse ruleset it'd totally work for a Dresden expy game. It's what I'd use.

Edit 2: Apparently there's also another PbtA skinned game called Urban Shadows which is "...an urban fantasy game set in "a dark urban environment drowning in supernatural politics,with Archetypes including vampires, werewolves, wizards, ghosts and human monster hunters" which also might be good, but I've never touched it.

Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 20:27 on May 3, 2021

rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012



I always wanted to cram the old cWoD characters my brother and I used to play into the Dresden RPG. I was a straight up ripoff homage to Whistler from the first Blade movie, he was ripping off but in a bad way creatively inspired by Sex Machine from From Dusk Till Dawn, and we went around wacky murderhoboing vampires removing haemophage infestations with novel solutions.

(Ask) how you can take care of Nosferatu in the labyrinthine sewer tunnels of *checks notes* Dallas, TX with a few tanker trucks of liquid oxygen and a couple of well-placed natural gas leaks.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Deptfordx posted:

Edit 2: Apparently there's also another PbtA skinned game called Urban Shadows which is "...an urban fantasy game set in "a dark urban environment drowning in supernatural politics,with Archetypes including vampires, werewolves, wizards, ghosts and human monster hunters" which also might be good, but I've never touched it.

Urban Shadows is pretty good. The nice thing about it is there's a fairly one-to-one correlation between the playbooks and their Dresden equivalents: Dresden is The Wizard, The Alphas are The Wolf, Vamps is Vamps, Fae is Fae, Karen is The Veteran, the Denarians are The Tainted, etc, but there's enough wiggle room that you can adapt various other Urban Fantasy series into it as well. The two innovations it brings to the table over other Apocalypse World games are Corruption moves and Debts. Corruption moves are specific, powerful moves unique to each class that, when used, cause your character to gain corruption points. The more corruption you have the more powerful your corruption moves are, but when you max out your corruption track your character ceases to be a PC and becomes an NPC antagonist. Basically, it mirrors Harry's journey into Winter Knighthood without all the, y'know, rapey bits.

Debts are obligations and favors your character has that have metaphysical weight. If you owe somebody a debt and they call it in and you don't want to pay, you have to actually roll to try to wriggle out of it. Fae, unsurprisingly, play around with the Debt mechanics a lot.

Edit: Urban Shadows also has my favorite mechanic for playing ghosts in an RPG ever: "Whenever you enter a scene, pick two: You can be Heard, You can be Seen, or you can Touch and Be Touched. Mark 1 corruption to pick 1 more, or 1 less."

Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 22:41 on May 3, 2021

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!



Deptfordx posted:

You should know there's two DF Rpg's.

There's the original DFRPG.

Then there's Dresden Files Accelerated. Based on FATE accelerated and is as you might grok from the name, supposed to be a simpler faster playing version.

So bear that in mind if you're looking on Drivethru etc.

Can't speak to which is better, as I haven't played them.

I liked the original better, because it let you create some really weird characters. My favorite was the guy who has basically the villain from Silent Hill 4, but way more benevolent. The party made lots of good use of their ghost buddy's nightmare dimension. Kinda felt like Persona edging into the Dresden world.

Still, the fate accelerated engine is way better for faster play.

gninjagnome
Apr 17, 2003



ConfusedUs posted:

It's based on the FATE system, which I like a lot. It allows for really free-form character creation and generally just lets players do whatever the gently caress they want as long as they justify it.

If you wanna talk about the system itself, I'd go hit up the Traditional Games forum.

I ran a short lived campaign, where a water adept, a half ice giant, an mortal supernatural security consultant and a someone working for the Archive were unraveling a Black Court cultists conspiracy in New Orleans. It was a ton of fun. You can really tailor the game to the players and whatever type of game you want to play.

Ninurta
Sep 19, 2007
What the HELL? That's my cutting board.

So the 6th Eric Carter book, Bottle Demon released today on my kindle and from the first chapter/synopsis it looks like it should be a fun ride. I also picked up the 3rd Titanshade book because I want more 1970s Dean Winters detective stories with his not-an-Orc partner. Between the two I should have a nice 679 page novella to read this weekend after visiting the Pima Air & Space Museum 13 months later than planned and fully vaccinated.

Everyone
Sep 6, 2019


Ninurta posted:

So the 6th Eric Carter book, Bottle Demon released today on my kindle and from the first chapter/synopsis it looks like it should be a fun ride. I also picked up the 3rd Titanshade book because I want more 1970s Dean Winters detective stories with his not-an-Orc partner. Between the two I should have a nice 679 page novella to read this weekend after visiting the Pima Air & Space Museum 13 months later than planned and fully vaccinated.

679 pages? I think that's more of a novel than a novella.

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DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013


Nap Ghost

So I know this thread is more for books, but because of the very specific genre I would recommend people listen to Dimension 20ís The Unsleeping City. Itís a D&D play podcast that takes place in modern day NYC and between the world building and character interactions itís been scratching that Urban Fantasy itch for me.

DreamingofRoses fucked around with this message at 11:37 on May 7, 2021

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