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It always kinda struck me as funny that Harry's healing factor, which is able to perfectly rehabilitate bone calluses and even regrow Axons after the Myelin has been char broiled, is somehow unable to deal with a little bit of fibrosis. Oh well, 'rule of cool,' I suppose.
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May 26, 2014 10:55
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Logan 5 posted:e: should I spoiler any of this? I really wouldnt want someone new to the series to read it Someone new to this series should have the common sense to avoid threads like this, and if they don't, it's their own drat fault. Only spoiler stuff related to new releases.
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May 26, 2014 12:38
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I liked it for the most part, but; That was a lot of screen time wasted on Murphy for no real result. She got chapters, and chapters of attention and what did it come to? She gets sidelined before the real fight starts, she gets yet another insecurity to dither around with, and she maybe gets to bang Dresden off screen. In contrast, Molly had like, two scenes and showed clear growth, both for the better and worse. Trying to make Murphy a functioning character again was going to be a tall order, considering how long she's been neglected, but this book definitely fell short. It resolved none of her issues and opened no new avenues for growth. Fake edit: Also agreed that the male gaze thing is getting incredibly tiresome. Real edit: Also, also, having Hannah Ascher's villain backstory be (attempted) rape was dumb and lazy and Butcher ought to know better.
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May 27, 2014 23:59
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Hixalot posted:Actually, didn't Butters say in the Skin Game text say (I know it's speculation, but just in case) that the "governor" on the human physique limited humans to roughly 1/3rd of their potential? And Harry realized even without the mantle in the Tessa fight that he was much stronger because of his training beyond what he normally would have been capable of, and the 37' jump cited is roughly three times the 12' that you cite. I'd say that's pretty credible actually. His point, and he's right, is that disabling our self inhibitors does not triple our physical capability. Not even close. If it is a retcon, and not just butters spitballing, then it's a really bad retcon. We've seen Harry and Fix do things that are not inside the realm of human physical output. In Cold Days Harry mentions that he does working sets at 400 kg (~880 pounds). World class weightlifting competitors can't do even half of that on a single lift. KellHound posted:There are other ways to do all that and rape is the laziest most sexist way This. And it's particularly galling in this instance since because Butcher actually took the time to give her some decent characterization. She was already sympathetic, resorting to a lovely sexist cliche was totally unnecessary. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 02:06 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 01:58
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DrFrankenStrudel posted:TBH I kind of hope Murphy has been sidelined tempor-permanantly by her injuries so that Jim can write about characters I care about, especially since Molly's character progressed farther in all of 2 pages than Murphy did in the first 200. I don't think we'll have that much luck. I was hoping that Butcher could get the character back on track, but if she was going to die/retire/become interesting then this relative lull was his big chance to make it happen, and it flopped, badly. She's probably just going to keep taking up space as PTSD riddled action chick until the series runs its course.
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May 28, 2014 02:57
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Mars4523 posted:I've always liked Murphy, and she's actually the character that drew me to the series. She wasn't so much mishandled here as she was not really used at all, brought in and then promptly shoved offscreen while Harry leers at boring sexy warlock chick, or to play the thankless role of Harry's second. She's mishandled, because she isn't used at all. Murphy didn't used to be a completely one dimensional character, but all her personal conflicts have been resolved or stagnant since Proven Guilty. For the last seven books all she's done is be Harry's buddy and pitch in on a couple action scenes. She doesn't need magic, or a sword, or whateverelse the gently caress. Her problem isn't combat relevance, her problem is that combat relevance is all she has. I guess technically she and Harry are probably screwing now, but their sexual tension has always been one of the least interesting things in the entire series. It really is telling that Molly got more development and nuance in the span of about three or four pages than Murphy got in several hundred. I don't think Butcher has any idea what to do with her outside of action set pieces. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 03:36 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 03:33
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Logan 5 posted:But yes I do agree with the Ascher bit. Combined with Harry's internal monologues that are still cringeworthy despite the excuse of the Winter Mantle, its at best a really poor writing choice. Aside from that though, I thought that the whole Lash (brief) return was pretty weak, especially given how much backstory she and Dresden have. Yeah, that was not a great reveal, nor comeback. It was built up for quite a while and then Harry just curb stomps her without even having to break the first law. A lot of work went into both Ascher and Lasciel only to have it fizzle out at the finish line.
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May 28, 2014 03:39
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jivjov posted:Something I haven't seen a lot of people bring up...more weight is given to the Harry has some kind of Naming power theory. It's not a specific naming power, it's just that names have power, like in general. Dresden details why it's important pretty clearly during the Octokong bit. Giving something a name puts it in a specific box that let's you manage how and what you think about it. How and what you think about something can have a pretty literal impact on metaphysics in the Dresden'verse.
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May 28, 2014 09:29
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As has been pointed out more than once, both inside the books and out, combat in this setting isn't about how much you can bench press. Nearly anyone, no matter how potent, can be dropped by a well aimed blow. Timing, wits and awareness are vastly more useful than raw power. Butters has plenty of what it takes to be a player provided he takes things seriously.
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May 28, 2014 10:21
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docbeard posted:*I cannot help but wonder if Goodman Grey actually is Kincaid, rather than just being a very similar character. I doubt it, but I could see it, too. Don't see how it's possible. We've seen Kincaid laid out by pretty conventional amounts of damage. He can take a beating, but he stays beat for a while after. Grey on the other hand was recovering from lethal gunshots in mere moments.
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May 28, 2014 11:59
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AllTerrineVehicle posted:The point I got from it was that it was supposed to hint at the Faerie Queens being merely the latest expression of their role and part of the slowly changing mythologies. i.e. the Hecate statues reflect whatever Hecate (or the equivalent) is currently, and one of the entities is currently Molly. This. In the same way that Dresden used the name Atropos when summoning Mother Winter in Ghost Story. "Old gods do new jobs," as Terry Pratchett put it.
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Jun 15, 2014 00:57
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torgeaux posted:But this is all a weakness going forward not a strength. Dresden, local do gooder was what was lovable. Dresden superhero in supervillain universe may be entertaining, but it's no longer Dresden. It's not growth (as a story) it's radical change. I enjoyed cold days, but it wasn't improvement. It wasn't as bad as ghost story (Jesus, the star trek nerd crap sucked so hard), but it was a step back from the best. And sadly, I think you're right on where we're going, but I'm going to miss the urban fiction that was harry Dresden. The books were never not going to transition out of the Supernatural P.I. temple. It's been known for a long time now that the plan from the start was to gradually ramp up the stakes, scale and power level of the plot and characters. I can understand if you don't like it, but it really shouldn't come as any kind of shock at this point. Additionally I'm not sure the the original premise of the books could have sustained the twenty or more novels planned for the series.
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Sep 16, 2014 14:33
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Wade Wilson posted:I mean, how else did he end up with werewolf Andi? The Butters that was first introduced certainly wouldn't have been able to start a relationship with her. Andi is written as being physically attractive, but she isn't exactly normal people. Like the rest of the Alphas she was a social outcast and probably has issues(tm). Also, reminder that the short story Day Off paints her as being a literal furry. Rumda posted:Not long after their previous DM was killed. (Also Andi's previous boyfriend make if that what you may) Whatever, it's not like there are many (any?) romantic relationships in this series that aren't kinda hosed up or dysfunctional. Mars4523 posted:He is pretty terrible. I heard someone describe him as the "DM's little brother" in terms of what he's allowed to get away with. Thought it was pretty apt. Wade Wilson posted:"His nerd penis is longer and harder than all of ours put together" was the exact phrasing, if I recall. Butters was okay in Dead Beat because he had an actual arc, since then he's ridden the line somewhere between Mary Sue and the annoying hyper-competent kid in every sci-fi story. His character in Skin game was definitely a nadir, but I guess we're gonna have to put up with him a lot more now, so yay. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 01:50
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mirthdefect posted:WRT Butters being a Mary-Sue... didn't Butcher play him in the TV show? Nah, played by a guy named Matt Gordon according to IMDB.
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Oct 25, 2014 07:08
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jivjov posted:As the series has gone on though, its become a legitimate concern. Harry is going toe to toe with entities that could literally evaporate Butters or Murphy on the spot. This can be compensated for by clever writing and never letting the lower powered characters end up in a direct confrontation with a creature like that...but it really can't be handwaved away as not-a-problem. No, it really, really, really, really doesn't. I have problems with Murphy and Butters, but the issues I have are based on their characterization, not their combat relevance. This would be the case in any setting, but it's esspeically true in Dresden Files because Butcher has gone out of his way, time and again, to expressly tell us that in his world Power Levels Don't Mean Jack poo poo. Leverage, Position, and Timing are everything. Even the most humdrum of pissant nobodies can drop someone way above their pay grade if they're smart about it. By thinking cleaver humans lack the ability to swing outside their weight class you're falling into the same hubris that has killed many of Dresden's supernatural adversaries. Look at Cold Days for a good example. loving Ace of all people comes closer to taking out Dresden (twice!) than anyone else on Maeve's team. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 08:40
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jivjov posted:I think we're both saying the same thing but from different angles. I completely agree that human inginuity will let them take on beings way way way more powerful than themselves...but never in a direct slugfest. My issue is that the more crazy batman-plans that a character has to put together to take someone on, the more strained the situation feels to me. So far Butcher has done a good job of it, but if every single book features a scene of Butters/Murph/Whoever having a crazy plan to take out SuperBaddies #456, it could very easily start feeling dull and deus ex machina-y. But Dresden, Molly or whoever among the more powered cast does the exact same thing. It has nothing to do with the relative power levels of various characters. The reason it strains the nerves with people like Murphy is that the Batman poo poo is all she does anymore. It's getting dull because the stakes don't matter when the character behind them has gotten stale.
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Oct 30, 2014 09:11
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Just finished the second Rivers of London book and I've got to ask, is the protagonist always going to be this dim? I mean, I can buy that characters have blind spots, but falling into a torrid affair with a person of interest in a murder investigation and not twigging to something being seriously off about the whole thing until the bodies are literally piling up in front of him was kinda of a stretch.
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Feb 28, 2015 08:05
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docbeard posted:In fairness, she didn't really realize she was the murderer either. There's also the possibility she was (unconsciously) messing with his head, though I don't recall for certain any more. If it was his head being messed with I could buy that, but nothing like that is ever mentioned. Nobody ever even calls him on being a complete idiot for missing the obvious, but he's just a complete dunce about it. "Hey, there's a clear connection between dead jazz men and the women they were seeing. Here's one of those ladies now, and she's coming on to me real hard. Should I, a) be super suspicious and worried, or b) bang her. Hmm. Hrmmmmmmm. I'm not asking that the main character be a genius, but when something is telegraphed that hard in the first few chapters, and they don't pick up on it until the climax (rimshot) it starts to feel contrived really quickly.
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Mar 1, 2015 06:57
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computer parts posted:Actually, is that a thing or does White Court power only work on the opposite sex? It works fine, but the only examples we've seen of it involve two women, e.g. in Turn Coat: Madeline Raith and the banking lady whose name I can't recall, or when Lara ate Madeline. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Mar 12, 2015 |
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Mar 12, 2015 02:15
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I cuold have sworn there was at least one implied scene with Thomas and a dude. Not on-camera but implied. Can't pinpoint it though. The only thing I can think of is when he and Harry are discussing Lord Raith's incestuous domination of the female Raiths. Something to the effect of; Thomas: His tastes don't run that way. Harry: Small mercy. Edit: If the stupid monologue about gay dudes in Cold Days wasn't enough of a clue, Butcher has some really conventional and limiting biases when it comes to homosexuality.
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Mar 12, 2015 02:19
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Dr. MonkeyThunder posted:Are you actually complaining that this series doesn't have gay incestuous rape and that Thomas doesn't use his powers to force strait men gay? I'm sure there's some fan-fic out there for you but I doubt that's what the Dresden Files really needs. Wow, I have no idea how you got that from what I wrote, but no, no not at all. Wittgen posted:That's not the point. The point is that Butcher's handling of the white court shows his biases about homosexuality. The female court seem to be frequently or even always bi. None of the males are. Why? Because chicks making out is hot and dudes grinding is gross. At least, that's what Butcher seems to think. This is what I'm going for. Everything about how Butcher writes sexuality in the series, not just the White Court, speaks to some unfortunate leanings on his part and it's prevalent enough that it can't all be passed off on Harry's latent misogyny. I don't hate the guy for it or anything, and these are hardly uncommon biases for dudes to hold in our culture; I hold some of them. I choose the words 'conventional and limiting' deliberately. Butcher is decent writer with a crazy good work ethic, but because he has such a solid grasp of his craft it makes stuff like this niggle and stick out when it crops up. Shinjobi posted:It's not news that Butcher is about as progressive on these things as a rock. Not making excuses for him, mind you, since I think it's definitely an area of his he should kinda be more open minded about, but this isn't a stunning revelation. It's another blemish on the series that some might find more frustrating than others. As a reader, it's never really bothered me. Coming online and hearing people talk about it though, I recognize it could be handled better. But hey, what can you do about it? Pretty much. It's almost impossible to find a good work of fiction (or even non-fiction) that isn't undercut with at least one weird, discomforting bit of political or social ick. Orson Scott Card anyone? poo poo, if I restricted myself only to works whose authors were devoid of any troubling influence then I'd have almost nothing left! It's entirely possible to enjoy something and still be critical of the parts that are... well, crap. For one reason or another. Hell, I managed to enjoy The Grimnoir Chronicles, in spite of having to pause every few hundred pages to wince at something particularly egregious.
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Mar 12, 2015 15:04
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ImpAtom posted:This is straight-up untrue. Among the 'comedy' things played is a religious woman who can't help but throw herself at Thomas and a woman who corners him in the place he is working and starts to undress. (She doesn't get fired for it but it's played as being that only because her manager found her attractive..) That is absolutely harmful and absolutely against their will. Like I said, Harry and Thomas literally have a conversation about how he needs to learn to control it. (In particular about the woman in the workplace because Thomas got fired for that particular thing.) The difference between using naked force and simple coercion. It shouldn't be hard to understand that engaging in sex with someone whose agency has been compromised is extremely unethical. You wouldn't (i.e. shouldn't) have sex with someone who's falling down drunk, and Thomas essentially exerts a passive aura that imposes a smilier state on anyone who looks even a little bit tasty when he's jonesing. It forms the central conflict of his character. He wants to be empathic and a good person, but his default state of being has him committing sexual assault, or worse, on the regular. It's legitimately hosed up and depressing, and playing it for laughs at the beginning of Deadbeat was indeed pretty gross. Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Mar 12, 2015 |
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Mar 12, 2015 16:03
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Anias posted:Humor lets us talk about horrific things in a way that playing them straight does not. I... ehh, no? Like, I get what you're saying, but those scenes aren't played in some kind of darkly comic, "oh we must laugh, lest we cry" sort of way. They're presented as wacky high-jinx between mismatched roommates, which is really not the right tact to take.
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Mar 12, 2015 16:52
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Xander77 posted:I usually wait until I finish the book to share my impressions, and "the author has issues" isn't exactly proper literary analysis... Well, some of it can be heaped on Harry. He's always been a misogynistic prickbag, and traditionally that manifested as white knighting and low level creephattery. Nothing super overt, but defiantly present and it's not a huge stretch to see that going to a much darker place under the wrong set of conditions. That said, whether it was Butcher trying to up sell the darker side of Harry's id or Butcher's own hangups bleeding through (probably both), he way overshot the mark. To the point that it damages your impressions both of the character and the author. What's so weird is that Butcher has shown he can do better. Harry had similar morality breaks when dealing with Lasciel, but they presented as a much more generalized loss of impulse control and not allrapeallthetime. He reigns it in a bit in Skin Game, but still not to the degree he needs to. Hopefully by the time the next book rolls around they'll both have gotten it out of their system, cause yeah, it's probably the worst the series has ever been on that particular topic.
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Mar 12, 2015 19:09
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Ramadu posted:Dang dude tell us how you really feel about an NBA sized wizard hating women. Oh gently caress off, I'm not making some impassioned screed here. Dresden Files is pulpy fluff, but that doesn't mean I'm going to switch my brain off whenever I hit something in the text which is undeniably lovely. I enjoy the series, and I can do that while still being cognizant of its shortcomings.
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Mar 12, 2015 20:13
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Ramadu posted:Bro look through your history. That poo poo is like, 90% of what you post in here. I see a post about it and yep, there ya are. We get it, you want gay rape vampires and harry to be gay. There's fanfics for that. Well, as 3/5 of your posts in the thread consist of attempts to troll me, I'ma gonna go ahead and stick with telling you to gently caress off.
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Mar 13, 2015 06:26
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mistaya posted:I'm working on Foxglove Summer, which is the latest one I think. It takes Peter out of London for the first time and it's kind of a nice break because things happen more slowly out in the countryside. I am a little sad that the series seems to be outgrowing London just like Dresden outgrew Chicago eventually though. It's gonna happen with any series that runs long enough. Past a certain point your only options are to go stale or raise the stakes.
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Apr 13, 2015 11:07
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Every villain with with an ounce of class or manners is british'ish. It's just how these things go.
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May 11, 2015 15:43
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It's good he got all that stuff rolling in Blood Rites, since Dead Beat comes right after and it would be shame if one of Butcher's most brisk and enjoyable yarns was bogged down by bunch of expositional asides.
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May 11, 2015 16:41
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thrawn527 posted:So what's with the whole "DIE ALONE" curse? A Kirk thing where, because it was said by Liver Spots, he figures he now knows he'll die alone whether it's true or not? Actual curse? Stop asking questions? Well, Harry' has already talked about Death Curses, and Quintus was enough of a practitioner that he could throw one... As for what it means, I'll refer you to all the "  "
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May 24, 2015 00:12
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I've actually had more than a little trouble empathizing with Grant just based on how much myopic man-baby he can be. I know that's meant to be deliberate to some extent, but it does start to grate, and even strains credibility when he's spacing out on stuff that I feel like a five year-old would pick up on. On the other hand, there's no real question that Dresden is a paternalistic misogynist and while that's also be deliberate, it is often less than endearing and the books play it was too hard at times. Either way, I think you're both not wrong. Urban Fantasy still has a lot of growing up to do, even by the standards of genre fiction. Hell, remember that one of Butcher's primary influences was Laurell K. Hamilton's Anita Blake series. When he started writing that was what people considered to be the pinnacle of the sub-genre! Baby steps, baby steps.
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May 24, 2015 07:31
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I'd be more okay with it if he actually showed some sign of becoming a good copper. I don't know how long Aaronovitch plans the series to go, but at the moment I feel like Grant might in fact be worse at the job than when he started, in that he's gained in power and influence, but regressed in terms of personal responsibility. I don't hate him or anything, but I do thing think there's a line to be walked between sympathetic every-man and incompetent boob, and that Peter verges a little too often toward the latter.
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May 26, 2015 04:33
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Yeah, I never really got people having an issue with how Murphy behaves in Fool Moon. Dresden is withholding information in a murder investigation and from her perspective at the time it directly led to a death (Kim). All of her actions are pretty drat rational for someone without the narrator's PoV.
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May 27, 2015 08:43
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Rumda posted:Oh yeah that would also further reduce blood rites dramatic tension. Blood Rites is pretty explicit in stating that the spell had to be anchored to a specific person(s). Raith assumed that person to be Thomas, and Harry thought it might be himself, but so far as I recall we never got any solid confirmation on who is actually powering the spell. It wouldn't be maggie, since she wasn't even born yet. It could be Ebenezer, which would provide an easy out for letting Raith back in as a major baddie, since McCoy is bound to get killed off at some point.
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Jun 11, 2015 11:21
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Benny the Snake posted:First, the book is set in a horror convention. If the book was published a few years later, it would be set in a proper comic book convention, given how comic book adaptations have become the Hollywood zeitgeist ever since 2008. These are some... weird opinions to have. I don't want to just say you're being a tad hyper sensitive and reading too much into things, but... Horror movie conventions are a thing, and if anything they're more common than they used to be, due to fan conventions becoming more mainstream in general, largely due to the aforementioned wider acceptance of comic book heroes thanks to Hollywood. It also gives Butcher an excuse to rope in a bunch of horror movie rejects as his baddies, and that kinda of pulpy bullshit is right up his ally. Also, also it makes a weird kind of sense for Molly to be into horror movies. One of her notable character traits is that she's... actually pretty loving terrifying under the perky, teenage rebel exterior. poo poo, she's practically Anthony Fremont, only with slightly better intentions. As for the resonance between the theater attack in the book and the Aurora shooting... Well, sad truth is that there are precocious few modern venues where you can set a fictional attack without it reflecting, at least in part, a real life massacre. Be it Schools, office buildings, movie theaters, stadiums, or summer camps pretty much anywhere you can imagine has been through it at this point. And I just don't get the last one. It would be way out of focus for how Butcher portrays the police—generally well meaning, if misguided—for one of their detectives to just be randomly beating a teenager during a routine, if relatively high pressure, questioning. I dunno, guess I'm just not seeing how those specific examples data the book in any particular fashion. They're all things I could easily imagine reading in a book published last month.
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Jun 12, 2015 00:12
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Hell, you have better odds of being hit by a drunk driver every time you step out your front door. Even if you don't live anywhere near a street! Try to only be afraid of things that are statistically sensible!
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Jun 12, 2015 00:36
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The Fool posted:So, at this point, based on recommendations in this thread, I've read a few different non-Dresden books. It seems pretty obvious to me that Butcher and Aaronovitch are head and shoulders above everyone else in this genre. (That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the other books, especially London Falling) That's one facet, but in broader terms it boils down to the fact that Butcher and Aaronovitch have, well, craft. I don't even even think that either one, and Butcher specifically, is exceptionally talented. They just worked their rear end off to hone their skill and the effort they've put in comes across in every aspect of their writing. Story, characters, setting, or whatever else, it's all stuff they're good at because it's clear they've spent an insane amount of time hammering out the fundamentals, so that stuff like that goes down onto the page nice and smooth. And it's not something you see in a lot of genre or YA fiction, so it does stand out when you run across it. I still remember the first time I picked up a Terry Prachett book and was like, "What the gently caress, how can it be this good?" Skippy McPants fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 06:48
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It seems clear that she'll end up in opposition to Dresden at some point, but I hope the plot stop short of making he flat out evil. Harry needs more antagonists like Morgan or the Merlin who are goodguys, but whose principles happen to place them at odds with Harry. Considering her history I can see Elaine being pretty uncool with a lot of the stuff Harry has gotten and is likely to get into.
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Jun 27, 2015 06:28
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Oroborus posted:I forgot about Cinder Spires coming out this year, so I guess we're talking next spring/summer for another dresden? Or maybe longer. The time between each book being published has been steadily increasing as the series goes on, though this isn't so bad as you might think, since the average length of the books is going up as well. Cold Days is almost twice as long as Storm Front.
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Jun 28, 2015 09:20
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Phuzzy posted:
I went to PA's site for the first time in maybe three years to check and see if this was an edited strip, and nope! Gabe has a hand down in pants in the original too. Nice to see that, in spite of the inexorable match of time, Mike and Jerry remain chronologically bolted to their late teens.
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Jun 30, 2015 02:00
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