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Panfilo posted:Libertarians will attribute the drop in child mortality with the development of capitalism in the modern world. It doesn't matter because the central premise is a lie; taxes have existed for millenia in one form or another, and there was no point in US history where people did not pay some kind of tax, including in a lot of cases state income tax (often in the form of a faculty tax or a "property" tax that was based on the property's production rather than its value)
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Jan 29, 2023 01:02
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Out of all taxes, libertarians seem more willing to accept "use" taxes over income taxes. They're really fixated on this idea that income tax stifles success. That's why the focus is on income taxes and arguing about how harmful and unnecessary they are. They want taxes to be as close to be as close to being directly transactional as possible (and we know how that turned out, what with the donut scarfing bears and darkened streetlights).Professor Shark posted:A male feminist is just a feminist
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Jan 29, 2023 04:43
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Panfilo posted:Out of all taxes, libertarians seem more willing to accept "use" taxes over income taxes. They're really fixated on this idea that income tax stifles success. That's why the focus is on income taxes and arguing about how harmful and unnecessary they are. They want taxes to be as close to be as close to being directly transactional as possible (and we know how that turned out, what with the donut scarfing bears and darkened streetlights). They also think they'll be smart enough to find ways of dodging any use taxes via lying/smuggling/sovcit nonsense, so once again it comes back to raw selfishness. quote:Redheaded Libertarian considers male feminists to be virtue signaling creeps compensating for being weak soyboys. She doesn't really consider feminism a legit ideology in of itself, so the idea of a man believing all that is even more ludicrous to her. As such she gets joy in "angering the male feminists" by goading them into saying something so outrageous she can just make some snide reply to juice up support from her stans. It's just another baffling thing coming from a female libertarian. It's not that baffling; she's a fascist, and as such isn't worried about little things like "internal consistency" or "coherent belief systems," while also getting off on goading opponents through bad faith arguments and arbitrary redefinition.
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Jan 29, 2023 04:48
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Panfilo posted:Like present day we have enough paved roads to completely cover the entire state of Ohio I hear, What a beautiful idea.
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Jan 29, 2023 05:35
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Captain_Maclaine posted:They also think they'll be smart enough to find ways of dodging any use taxes via lying/smuggling/sovcit nonsense, so once again it comes back to raw selfishness. Yeah, this is the trick. They're incredibly childish and selfish people who think everyone else is a rube to be conned. Basically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZuktUfF0nE
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Jan 29, 2023 07:35
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yet another example of libertarians being white supremacists https://twitter.com/LPMisesCaucus/status/1619342838352982016 ok, you say the police is the problem, but have you considered that the government's involvement in the police is the REAL problem,
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Jan 29, 2023 08:37
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Like many libertarians, she's actually a fascist. And I'm betting the next reveal with be multiclassing as a trad-cath. Can you elaborate on this?
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Jan 31, 2023 17:44
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Panfilo posted:Can you elaborate on this? Which part, me calling her a fascist? The evidence for that seems pretty obvious to me from what she posts about and the vitriol she sprays in all directions but if you disagree I can go into greater detail. If you meant the bit about me speculating she's going tradcath for her next bit, that just seems like a logical next step in her "when you think about, real liberty and freedom are only found in traditional values as arbitrarily defined thusly" act.
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Jan 31, 2023 18:54
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No I agree with you she seems like a fascist it's just I'm curious about the specific qualities. I try to avoid generalizing everyone I dislike as fascists so I'm trying to unpack the more specific aspects of her that make her one.
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Jan 31, 2023 18:59
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She's just a completely bog standard ideologically incoherent traditionalist conservative. Outside of like state parties the really kooky libertarians have been purged and the movement turned into one that doesn't even reliably support legal weed but definitely supports destroying whatever Tucker is talking about tonight. Was probably a "AFL/Hollywood kicks out all the commies" type housecleaning in the aughts after all the Randian pater familia freaks got proper jobs at think tanks and big paychecks Nothing on social media is real. She's got a brand she cultivates for reasons only she could tell you, but what she actually says isn't different at all from what you'll hear from someone holding a sign outside a Planned Parenthood.
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Jan 31, 2023 19:08
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Panfilo posted:No I agree with you she seems like a fascist it's just I'm curious about the specific qualities. I try to avoid generalizing everyone I dislike as fascists so I'm trying to unpack the more specific aspects of her that make her one. It's the usual indicators, the use of libertarian-sounding language to cover for advocacy of traditional power hierarcies and the removal of whichever Other she hates the most at the moment, as well as standard fascist tells like the Eco-esque shifting of rhetorical focus so that, say, LGBT+ people are both laughable jokes fit only to be the cruel punchline in what passes for rightist humor and also a deadly threat to the moral health of the Herrenvolk, to name only a few things. If you wanted specific posts she's made that indicate these thing, I don't have them immediately to hand, but if pressed I guess I hate myself enough to go back through her feed to dig them out.
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Jan 31, 2023 19:18
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Epic High Five posted:She's just a completely bog standard ideologically incoherent traditionalist conservative. Outside of like state parties the really kooky libertarians have been purged and the movement turned into one that doesn't even reliably support legal weed but definitely supports destroying whatever Tucker is talking about tonight. Was probably a "AFL/Hollywood kicks out all the commies" type housecleaning in the aughts after all the Randian pater familia freaks got proper jobs at think tanks and big paychecks For anyone unaware, this is a very real thing that happened. They call themselves the "Mises Caucus" and they began an organized takeover after the LP leadership denounced racism and fascism after the Unite the Right rally. Obviously this meant they were too woke and had to go. https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2022/05/25/mises-caucus-could-it-sway-libertarian-party-hard-right https://www.thedailybeast.com/libertarian-party-is-fighting-a-civil-war-over-its-right-wing-mises-caucus Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 19:26
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fun random fact i learned: there are apparently 22 million millionaires in the U.S.  figured it would be no higher than 5 digitsPanfilo posted:
is...is the implication that female feminists DON'T have a problem with what she said?
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Feb 1, 2023 01:25
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Mr Interweb posted:fun random fact i learned: there are apparently 22 million millionaires in the U.S. No, Redheaded Libertarian thinks feminism is stupid, so the idea that men might believe in it makes them megacucked in her worldview. Male feminists gets thrown out as a pejorative.
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Feb 1, 2023 01:52
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Captain_Maclaine posted:It's the usual indicators, the use of libertarian-sounding language to cover for advocacy of traditional power hierarcies and the removal of whichever Other she hates the most at the moment, as well as standard fascist tells like the Eco-esque shifting of rhetorical focus so that, say, LGBT+ people are both laughable jokes fit only to be the cruel punchline in what passes for rightist humor and also a deadly threat to the moral health of the Herrenvolk, to name only a few things. For example, transphobia in of itself is a type of bigotry and prejudice, but does being a transphobe make someone a fascist? Very very few of them explicitly state things like "we need to murder every trans person in the country", it seems to get buried in euphemisms.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:21
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Even if they are not a fascist today, they'll inevitably march with and platform fascists. They'll end up fascist or betrayed and killed by the fascists.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:35
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Panfilo posted:Not surprising considering there are parts of the country where owning a home no bigger than an outhouse technically makes you a millionaire in terms of assets. ah good point. completely forgot they were probably using real estate in their calculations
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Feb 1, 2023 17:44
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Panfilo posted:I'm curious if you could unpack specific examples because I'm trying to understand the distinctions better. Fascists never start with kill the X, it starts with we need to isolate them, deny them their rights, reeducate them, and then when the non-conforming and oppressed don't conform (or comply, or outlive their usefulness, ect) you make euphemisms about what is to be done with these people. Not all transphobes are fascist but the people who uncritically say things about tradition and essentially creating measures to oppress people because it doesn't fit their scope of the world based on "traditional" (which is Christian, 99% of the time values) is basically going to side with fascist policy
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Feb 1, 2023 17:51
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E: whoops wrong thread nm
VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 18:21
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You tend not to hear anything from casual transphobes who aren't fascist because transphobia is not a priority to non-fascists.
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Feb 1, 2023 19:52
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Mr Interweb posted:fun random fact i learned: there are apparently 22 million millionaires in the U.S. That means every older person with a paid off mortgage in coastal California, NYC, Wash DC, Boston, etc. Also millions of bog-standard middle class people who have been funding a retirement 401k at their jobs for three decades and have some house equity also probably get there. They used to have pensions, but no longer. Now they have 401ks (but they are no richer than they used to be, because they are going to live off that money for 30 years) There are nearly 340 million people in the US. I'm surprised the total number of "technical millionaires" isn't more than 22 million, to be honest.
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Feb 1, 2023 19:57
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Panfilo posted:I'm curious if you could unpack specific examples because I'm trying to understand the distinctions better. Other people had posted things that conform to what I've seen and understand, but sure I can do a deeper dive on why I think her collective bigotries and expressions thereof put her over the line from just "prejudiced libertarian rear end in a top hat" to "only thing missing are the jackboots and color-coded uniform."* I'm on the road right now to go help out a college friend who had to have life-saving emergency surgery (twice) recently so it'll be at least until next week before I can get to it, though. *Make whatever jokes/inferences you want to about red hats at this point.
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Feb 1, 2023 23:24
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Other people had posted things that conform to what I've seen and understand, but sure I can do a deeper dive on why I think her collective bigotries and expressions thereof put her over the line from just "prejudiced libertarian rear end in a top hat" to "only thing missing are the jackboots and color-coded uniform."* I'm on the road right now to go help out a college friend who had to have life-saving emergency surgery (twice) recently so it'll be at least until next week before I can get to it, though. I would like to see this as well, for what it's worth.
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Feb 2, 2023 02:05
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Ultimately a million dollars just does not mean what it meant when the cultural image of a millionaire was solidified.
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Feb 2, 2023 08:46
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reignonyourparade posted:Ultimately a million dollars just does not mean what it meant when the cultural image of a millionaire was solidified. quote:Dr. Evil: Here's the plan. We get the warhead and we hold the world ransom for... ONE MILLION DOLLARS! Epic High Five posted:She's just a completely bog standard ideologically incoherent traditionalist conservative. Outside of like state parties the really kooky libertarians have been purged and the movement turned into one that doesn't even reliably support legal weed but definitely supports destroying whatever Tucker is talking about tonight. Which reminds me how, at least in my experience, a lot of people who identified as libertarian in the 2000s envisioned it as a "moderate" ideology, in the sense of believing "Democrats are too far left, Republicans are too far right." They were drawn to notions of lower taxes, legal weed, keeping religion out of government, etc., and didn't care about theories relating to the "non-aggression principle," how seat belt laws are supposedly immoral, and other stuff the more "ideological" figures in the party would argue about. Having the Libertarian Party try to tap into the Trump/DeSantis wings of the GOP (as the Mises Caucus seems to be doing) would probably alienate the LP from potential voters who might see it (however incorrectly) as a viable alternative, as opposed to just "hi we're basically conservative Republicans except we support the gold standard and think government regulation of child adoption is evil." Enver Zogha fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Feb 2, 2023 |
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Feb 2, 2023 10:49
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That's an interesting premise of a retired super villain who's running out of money because they asked too low and didn't invest the money smart enough.
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Feb 2, 2023 14:07
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Other people had posted things that conform to what I've seen and understand, but sure I can do a deeper dive on why I think her collective bigotries and expressions thereof put her over the line from just "prejudiced libertarian rear end in a top hat" to "only thing missing are the jackboots and color-coded uniform."* I'm on the road right now to go help out a college friend who had to have life-saving emergency surgery (twice) recently so it'll be at least until next week before I can get to it, though. And just to clarify, I'm not trying to Sea Lion here about fascism. I understand the broad premises about fascism itself. But it gets used here frequently about specific things, without any specific context. When someone says "that's fascist" do they typically have a specific explanation lined up if the other person asks, "why?", or do they just repeat vague talking points and invoke Godwin's Law? What I know about her in a nutshell: -Moved from Massachusetts to Florida because she didn't want her family to get forced to be vaccinated. Ironically her daughter has some super rare autoimmune disease which, you know, you'd want to probsbly live by the few places that can treat it... But she's a Libertarian so not getting vaccinated is more important (not the first libertarian I know of in this family situation either). Like a lot of anti vaxxers she had gotten a really nasty case of Delta but this just seemed to make her further entrenched in her awful opinions. -Brings up historical references about the Founding Fathers. Doesn't have any credentials to back up her expertise. Probsbly has strong opinions about Howard Zinn. This is why I'd want to see her debate an actual historian, her anecdotes have a very "pop history" feel to them and the only depth is to bust out gotchas to liberals that make broad criticisms. -It's hard to say how much conviction she has about the more fashy stuff she links in her wall. The one giveaway I do see is that it feels like anyone that hates "commies" past a certain point seems to share enormous overlap with blatant fascists . Like I'll see leftists roll their eyes or poke fun at "Tankies" but they're not joking about hurling them out of helicopters-but fascists do this. But beyond that, how much does this person really care about culture war stuff like Drag Queen Story hour or trans rights?
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Feb 2, 2023 17:16
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Panfilo posted:
Doesn't matter. We are what we pretend to be.
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Feb 3, 2023 07:13
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https://twitter.com/VerminSupreme/status/1623167383094411264
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Feb 8, 2023 20:36
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Vermin is the best.
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Feb 8, 2023 20:44
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Meeting him at Occupy was the highlight of my entire life.
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Feb 8, 2023 22:26
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Supreme 2024: Give 'Em the Boot
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Feb 11, 2023 03:25
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https://twitter.com/LPNH/status/1624460332239298560
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Feb 12, 2023 15:50
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That's definitely a take if I ever saw one.
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Feb 12, 2023 15:56
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Eughh it's true but you shouldn't say it or people will think you're pro-Osama or pro-slavery
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Feb 12, 2023 16:23
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hang on, the libertarian party of nh is advocating against genocide colonialism?? (i know it's gonna turn out to be the STATISM  angle)
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Feb 12, 2023 16:26
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At least they didnt keep it vague and made sure to include that they thought that unlike Lincoln, Osama was just doing the right thing.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:27
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He doesn't actually say that Osama was right, just that his reasons were not as bad as Lincoln's, which is not a high bar to get over. But it could mean that Osama was right, so if people get that impression it's on him imo.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:36
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Wow, that's up there with the "victims of Communism" tally including a shitload of Nazis. VitalSigns posted:He doesn't actually say that Osama was right, just that his reasons were not as bad as Lincoln's, which is not a high bar to get over. Yeah he's basically saying that unlike Lincoln, Osama had actual grievances with the US.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:39
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VitalSigns posted:He doesn't actually say that Osama was right, just that his reasons were not as bad as Lincoln's, which is not a high bar to get over. Fair enough, I guess I just have learned the habit to never assume any subtlety is being deployed when a Libertarian is on their soapbox edit - I'm also fairly certain that all parties involved would've agreed Lincoln didn't have any grievance with the US government
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Feb 12, 2023 16:41
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