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Could I get some feedback on my Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain deck? Not looking to do cEDH, but my local playgroup seems to have fairly optimized decks.
berenzen fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 20, 2019 |
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Mar 20, 2019 00:36
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Thanks for the feedback, I'll cut some stuff and add more mana rocks.
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Mar 20, 2019 23:11
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You want mindmoil, more wheels like dragon mage, and time reversal, niv mizzets and dack fayden
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Mar 24, 2019 07:13
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This is my current build. It's a pretty consistent turn 4-6 storm kill and runs enough interaction/hate to stall out the game. Win cons are primarily Words of Wind storm and KCI with a hint of Lab Man. Too slow for cEDH, which wants consistent t3-4 combos or enough stax to hate it out. But it can hang pretty well at high-powered tables. It is still a big combo turn, which your playgroup might not like, because until you hit mana severance or getting to one of the win conditions, storming out is not necessarily deterministic until you hit mana severance or scroll rack+paradox engine. It also proxies a couple 3k+ cards, so make sure your local playgroup is OK with proxies.
berenzen fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Apr 13, 2019 |
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Apr 13, 2019 11:42
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AlternateNu posted:Oops. Missed this piece of snark. How about these? Naheela is less 5-colour goodstuff and more a 1 card combo that runs a shitload of tutoring/interaction to try to ensure victory from there. Also, that Scion Reanimator deck seems real fragile for cEDH.
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Apr 19, 2019 00:31
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Dramatic Reversal, Isochron scepter, grim monolith, rings of brighthearth, power artifact for your infinite mana. Run some of the moxen to get your coloured mana, opal diamond, chrome, amber. They didn't ban all the good fast mana. Run various artifact tutors to get your wincons together, standard counterspell suite: Flusterstorm, force of will, pact, etc. If you can run proxies, get a tabernacle and a timetwister. berenzen fucked around with this message at 05:10 on May 18, 2019 |
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May 18, 2019 05:06
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cEDH discord is thinking it replaces Niv as a food chain deck.
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May 23, 2019 01:22
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Gitrog's issue is that it takes way too loving long to get to a deterministic, shortcuttable loop where you can provably win the game. No other deck is really like that. Even shuffle hulk can demonstrate a repeatable loop through single-use graveyard hate within one mill cycle, and has a 0% chance at fizzling, outside of opponent interaction.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:02
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Firey Islet and Trophy Mage are what I'm grabbing for Jhoira stax.
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Jun 5, 2019 19:22
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Jin-Gitaxias is a reasonable reanimator target if Vilis and Razaketh are RFGed.
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Jul 11, 2019 18:40
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I think the only card that probably might deserve a ban is Flash, and even then I can see, and agree with, the arguments against banning it. Breakfast/Shuffle Hulk are interesting decks, and if you ban Flash, then we'll just end up calling for bannings against Gitrog pieces, or Najeela pieces or whatever ends up being the slightly more dominant deck. Being 1-2 percent points above the rest of the field does not make a deck or card ban worthy. Unban like 3/4ths of the current banlist imo.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:27
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Infinite Karma posted:If you ban Flash or Hulk, you should probably ban Doomsday, Food Chain, The Chain Veil, Dakmor Salvage, off the top of my head. Combos where you just need to get 1 specific card, plus any of a number of other second cards (and possibly your commander) to win are just about equally problematic. Even Dramatic Scepter is still two cards, plus mana rocks/dorks (which you're likely to have anyway). That's what I'm saying, banning flash is useless because there will always be another combo deck that's dominant, and banning it just removes diversity from the metagame, not adds it.
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Jul 11, 2019 21:45
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With PST out of the way, Shuffle Hulk is now the fastest and most resilient combo deck to play. Once the combo starts going off, it can beat instant speed interaction, and can be done in response to someone tapping out. As for one-card combos, are you banning derevi/Nature's Will/Druid's Respository? Those are 1 card combos with Najeela. cEDH is defined by 1-card combos, and there are so many that you'd need to ban a fairly large number of cards, because someone is going to find something busted. Honestly, the big thing is that you need to have a real good reason why you're not playing Thrasios/Tymna in cEDH right now. Flash was way more of a problem card than pengine ever was. berenzen fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jul 11, 2019 |
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Jul 11, 2019 22:15
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PJOmega posted:"They are one card combos when paired with another specific card." When you effectively always have the card either in play or in your hand (command zone), it's a one card combo, yeah. In EDH you don't usually consider your commander a card you need to acquire to make a combo work, therefore 1 card combo. Every combo that he listed there is a 1-card combo because they use a commander to make them do busted poo poo. Chain Veil is a 1-card combo because it goes infinite with teferi, but by itself it's a strong but not neccessarily busted card. Food Chain requires Misthollow Griffin/Squee/Eternal Scourge in exile, but because you can't really interact with those cards, disrupting that part of the combo is near impossible and they're always considered to be "in hand". When people talk about 1-card combos in EDH, that's what they mean. If you've done your set up right, you only need to find 1 card (thereby reducing your vulnerability to interaction like Windfall/Wheel of Fortune/Timetwister/other discard effects) and you can take your path to victory.
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Jul 12, 2019 01:44
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Adlai Stevenson posted:While I agree that, in a vacuum, Recurring Nightmare is not much more powerful than a number of other notable unbanned cards, consider the following list of cards that reliably counteract it: There's also Silent Gravestone, Faerie Macabre, Grafdiggers Cage and other pieces of graveyard hate that shut it down. If you're not putting something into your deck to interact with a given win condition, then you run the risk of losing to that card.
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Jul 13, 2019 19:10
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Adlai Stevenson posted:I see Relic of Progenitus and Tormod's sometimes, and think they're generally worth considering and/or running. Slower things like Angel of Finality and Agent of Erebos are really solid for less competitive tables. But those three cards you listed are Literally Bad in EDH unless you're in some recursion-only meta, and running them would probably trigger klaxons at the RC compound that the format is being warped. Silent Gravestone, Cage and Faerie Macabre are all very much playable, particularly in cEDH metas where timetwister loops, Shuffle Hulk and other reanimator effects are pretty commonly played. Muldrotha is one of the most commonly played commanders, and Cage shuts it down entirely until they find an answer to it. Build to your meta, if you have a guy that likes playing recurring nightmare, maybe put grave hate into your deck. If you're losing to recurring nightmare and you're not running grave hate then it's not the fault of recurring nightmare, it's yours for not adjusting your deck to your local metagame. berenzen fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jul 13, 2019 |
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Jul 13, 2019 19:51
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Adlai Stevenson posted:In the more cEDH-ish recursion heavy groups, like what I was referring to before, sure. If your local metagame doesn't play recursion effects and considers them to be too competitive for that playgroup, then why are you bitching about recurring nightmare? Are you suddenly worried that people in your local playgroup are going to be playing with it non-stop, when better options like necromancy/unearth/reanimate exist and they don't play with those right now.
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Jul 13, 2019 22:42
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Adlai Stevenson posted:I said there are some cEDH groups and some more casual groups. For casual groups, which is what the banlist was created for, those cEDH-ready answers for RN don't exist because they're otherwise rather ineffecient Efficiency of cards has nothing to do if someone is playing cEDH or casual, and more to do with the decks that are being played. There are plenty of cEDH decks that don't utilize the graveyard, and plenty of casual decks that do. If I'm playing in a more casual meta that has lots of Muldrotha, Meren, Teysa, Windgrace etc. then yeah I'm probably going to run a chunk of graveyard hate like Cage, Gravestone, RIP etc. because it drastically slows down those decks to improve my chances at winning.
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Jul 13, 2019 23:58
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Peanut! posted:I'm looking for some feedback on my first attempt at a "casual-ish" budget Jhoira deck. I'm running KCI and Isochron Sceptre + Dramatic Reversal as ways to close out games, but without a lot of fast mana or tutors to slow down the deck. How Casual-ish of a meta are we talking? Because you're running an izzet deck without Blood Moon, Back To Basics or Magus of the Moon, which are all cards that I'd auto-include into any izzet deck. Beyond that, I really dislike KCI, even in casual-ish decks. It's super clunky and takes up a bunch of deckslots. Words of Wind is the better card to generate infinite mana. If you really want to go all-in on the Thopter and/or KCI win condition, then put purphorous in, because it actually lets you win without actually needing to attack. berenzen fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jul 14, 2019 |
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Jul 14, 2019 01:00
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Peanut! posted:I'm looking for some feedback on my first attempt at a "casual-ish" budget Jhoira deck. I'm running KCI and Isochron Sceptre + Dramatic Reversal as ways to close out games, but without a lot of fast mana or tutors to slow down the deck. Ok so actually going through this. The deck seems to be really confused about what it wants to be doing. Do you want to be creating thopter tokens, or do you want to generate infinite mana to kill your opponents in one turn? Because right now your deck is trying to do both, but is way better at doing the latter than the former. Jhoira is best built as a storm commander, not as a aggressive beat face one. So first off, Cut the Inkwell Leviathan. It doesn't do anything for your deck, it just is a big beater that will die to any boardwipe, and while not easily killed, also doesn't really kill your opponents that quick on its own either. Second, I hate the thopter generation without payoff, and you don't need close to the amount of generators you have, and if you're going infinite with dramatic scepter or KCI, there are much better outlets than trying to win with combat damage. Cut Whirler Rogue, Thopter Engineer, Battlesphere, Steel Hellkite, Thopter Spy Network, Retrofitter Foundry, Chief of the Foundry and Chief Engineer. Now the win conditions. You have 2 infinite mana combos, and no infinite mana outlets, and 2 Storm outlets that are pretty well dead draws until you're ready to try and win. Cut Minds Desire and Brain Freeze. Now that you've cut most of the really expensive cards, you can also probably cut like 4-5 lands. Your curve tops out a lot earlier, and you're a storm deck. I'd also replace 4 lands with the different mirage fetches. So like -4 islands, -4 Mountains, +Flood Plain, +Bad River, +Rocky Tar Pit +Mountain Valley. Now what to add now that we've cut like 13 cards. Cut the Minds Desire and the Brain Freeze, add Walking Ballista- a card that isn't necessarily a dead draw mid-game, can be recurred, and also cantrips for you when Jhoira is out. Also add an Earthquake type effect, which can boardwipe as well as win the game if you're ahead on life. Rolling Earthquake is best because it can hit fliers, but is also pretty expensive. I'd add like 4-5 more counterspells. You're a blue deck, why are you only running 2 counterspells? Delay, Swan Song, Dispel, Pyroblast (if you run in a blue heavy meta), Negate. All those will help improve the quality of your deck. Now that you're adding in counterspells, bring in Baral, Chief of Compliance. He brings down the cost for your counterspells and draw spells, and he For the last 4 slots, I'd add in some hate cards tuned for your local metagame. As a storm deck, you thrive on other people going slower than you, because it's pretty easy to punch you in the face. Cursed Totem/Torpor Orb/Pithing Needle/Grafdiggers cage etc. Fit to your local playgroups. Also bring in another cost reducer or 2, you only have 2, both of which are creatures, which are pretty vulnerable. Cloud Key is pretty decent, Helm of Awakening is really good for the turn you plan on going off, Herald of Kozilek is OK for hitting all your artifacts. berenzen fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jul 14, 2019 |
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Jul 14, 2019 06:09
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While partners are cool, allowing thrasios and tymna to pair up with each other was a mistake.
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Jul 19, 2019 03:03
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Even not in just Dramatic Scepter decks, Najeela runs like 9 mana dorks. Mana dorks are great.
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Jul 23, 2019 06:51
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Each person has 7 cards, all of which are potential answers to each others cards. When you mulligan, you're at 1 fewer card to each opponent, which means your overall card advantage is going to be -3. When you mulligan for a second time, you've basically 3-for-0ed yourself in order to get a more usable hand. As a result, the overall card quality for your opponents can be weaker, and yours needs to be stronger in order to achieve an advantage .
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Jul 23, 2019 20:11
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DontMockMySmock posted:But if you do that you count your own cards three times. You don't have 3 copies of each of those cards to be used separately against three opponents in three 1v1 games. In 4-player EDH, the ideal value for a card would be one that goes 3-for-1, as this allows you to maintain card advantage parity. For every card that you mulligan away, you increase the requirement of the efficiency of your cards in order to maintain advantage parity, while simultaneously decreasing the required efficiency of your opponent's cards. Mulliganing is way more disadvantageous in EDH than 1v1 formats as a result. You can mulligan down to 5 and still win vs. someone that stays at 7 in Standard and Modern. If you mulligan to 5 in EDH, it's exacerbated far more, unless you do something like a turn 1 windfall.
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Jul 23, 2019 23:05
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To them, they value their cards at 3 cards worth, but to you their cards are only worth 1 card. You are trying to get their cards to be worth 1 (or 0) card, they are trying to get their cards to be worth 3 cards apiece. Card value is asymmetrical in EDH.
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Jul 23, 2019 23:58
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I've seen safekeeper teched in najeela as well, but it's not a common include.
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Jul 24, 2019 17:08
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Kenrith isn't anywhere near as strong as Niv-Mizzet, First sliver or Najeela though. He doesn't work with food chain, so you're looking at several cards to go infinite with him. If I want to play a 5C commander, I probably wouldn't be looking at Kenrith as my first pick.
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Sep 21, 2019 01:17
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Rhystic Study is a good, but situational card and you shouldn't be jamming it into every blue deck. It wants to see play in metagames that play grindy control decks as a way to reload in the late game. Tapping out to play Study is a terrible idea if you're playing in a metagame that tries to win turn 3 unless your hand is filled with free counterspells, because you've left all defenses down to try and get incremental value at the point where people are trying to win. If you're playing in a battlecruiser meta Study and Tithe are a lot better, because tapping down at 3 or 4 mana isn't anywhere near as punishing, as the games are far more likely to go to turns 10+ and generating incremental value like that is far more important. There's only really couple decks in the cEDH metagame that like to run Study, and even then it's usually in the maybeboard and not usually in the 100.
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Sep 21, 2019 02:43
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Aranan posted:I'm putting together an Alela deck to bring with me when I visit my friend at the end of the month. The rough gameplan is to play delaying/stax/hate pieces that come with a free faerie thanks to Alela, then use a few anthem effects and card drawing to keep up the pressure. Backup plan is helm of obedience + leyline/RIP. Super mega backup plan is trying to do 21 damage with Alela. What's the metagame you're looking at playing against, and are things like infinite combos allowed? Because depending on how competitive you're playing at will depends on how much and what I'd look at cutting. As it stands, you're playing narset and not playing any blue wheel effects which are incredibly good at disruption, so at the very least you definitely want to slot in a windfall and/or Timetwister (if you have one, or are playing with proxies, please do not spend 3k on a card) and probably a notion thief considering you're in those colours. berenzen fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Oct 9, 2019 |
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Oct 9, 2019 03:55
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My EDH decks are: cEDH: Najeela Tempo Gitrog Esper Bears in Cars Yarok ETB CST and I'm currently building Opus Thief. Non-cEDH Alela, Faeries in Cars (basically a tuned down bears in cars, focused more on dealing with battlecruiser boards) Jhoira Storm Anafenza Exile Tribal Torbran Thorns
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Dec 17, 2019 04:19
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Try bears in cars. It uses hatebears to make your opponents stop doing things, then because they can't do things, you get to run them over with vehicles like untethered express and the Weatherlight.
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Dec 17, 2019 08:09
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It's because the RC for commander are a bunch of players that play durdly battlecruiser poo poo and the banlist is more because they, as individuals, find a certain card unfun rather than because or it's power level. See Flash, which has never been banned but Iona is. To them, all the cards that are on the Banlist should be there. They give 0 shits on people that build competitive or semi-competitive lists, and have all but told cEDH players to gently caress off out of their game.
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Dec 27, 2019 04:22
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The Clowner posted:I completely slept on this card until it was pointed out to me that it gets around uncounterable spells. I can't believe this was printed at common. It's a rare.
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Dec 27, 2019 16:31
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There are a billion different flash hulk lines. Banning one particular combo is just going to shift the meta to a different combo line instead.
berenzen fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jan 8, 2020 |
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Jan 8, 2020 03:56
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Najeela was never a food chain commander. She used Druids repository/Derevi to use her ability to go infinite.
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Jan 8, 2020 21:00
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Except because nearly every deck in cEDH is UBx, and there's no opportunity cost for consult-labman package that it just becomes an easy out for almost every deck in the metagame. If you ban flash and the lab man package, it's less about being 4 different flash-hulk or consult decks, and now you have a variety of different decks that each plays to their own unique win condition. I like the t2-4 wins of cEDH, but holy poo poo is this flash/consult meta loving boring. Right now I sit down and with the exception of the gitrog or urza deck, every single one of us is playing with a consult-labman out. Like, if you don't want to ban lab man effects, at least ban flash and consultation. Tainted pact at least has a fairly significant deck building cost that makes it particularly vulnerable to blue moon style decks.
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Jan 9, 2020 07:20
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sit on my Facebook posted:I'd really like him to explain in detail what banning rubric could possibly lead to the conclusion that "I tap two mana and win" is a reasonable thing to allow in any format at any competitive level. They don't give a poo poo about the competitive formats of play.
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Jan 31, 2020 02:00
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Already gone, what did it say?
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Feb 25, 2020 19:57
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The big reason why oracle/Labman/jace + consult lines are not as big a deal is because it happens at sorcery speed. The difference between a 2 mana instant speed win that can just occur out of nowhere because everyone tapped out to resolve a counter-war, and a 3 mana sorcery speed win is massive. It means that people can go shields down, or put shields back up before the consult player's turn is up. It also allows for more table dynamics and makes for less exhausting threats whenever a simic+ player leaves at least 1U open at the end of their turn. Plus hulk lines are still a thing that can happen, but need a little bit more work to set up. Coming to mind there's necro hulk, T&N hulk, and I'm sure a couple ways to cheat it into play, it just takes a little bit more work and is sorcery speed, or is telegraphed a lot harder. Super pumped for this ban, because it honestly is going to lead to less exhausting games. berenzen fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Apr 20, 2020 |
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Apr 20, 2020 20:12
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Infinite Karma posted:How does this do 120 damage without decking yourself? People usually take incidental damage from combat/shocklands etc. That by the time you combo out, there's usually fewer life amongst opponents than cards in your deck.
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Apr 21, 2020 18:13
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