M:tG Commander Thread: yeah okay I pubstomped my wife

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > M:tG Commander Thread: yeah okay I pubstomped my wife

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

OssiansFolly posted:

I learned the hard way you can't go into Nekusar thinking it was "everyone needs to draw cards NOW". That 1 damage here or there while you toss out a few more enchants is slow while you build a mana base. Then you drop something big (like damage for discards too), make everyone draw, then make everyone discard and win...otherwise you become public enemy number 1.

Leyline of Anticipation is pretty golden for this purpose. It basically doubles your mana base for dropping nukes, and gives you the freedom to hold counters and answers without giving up your main phase.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2015 17:13

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 15:38

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

If your commander doesn't bring the hate, you're playing a lovely deck. The whole point of the format is to have a powerful cornerstone.

# ¿ May 15, 2015 02:48

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Oraculum Animi posted:

This is a weird request. I'm looking for some aggressive esper creatures of CMC 4 or less, particularly white and/or blue ones so I don't have a glut of black. I was thinking of something like Baneslayer Angel. I have a lot of 5 and 6 CMC creatures and I want to try and bring my curve down a little.

Geist of St Traft? Daxos? Do you want pure damage, or is disruption/card draw good, too?

# ¿ Jul 1, 2015 03:33

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Sol Ring is included in the Commander precons, it's not going anywhere.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2015 05:20

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

OssiansFolly posted:

So this is my new pet project.

Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet

This just seems like it would be a fun control deck. I've been slowing chunking away cards, but even as I do it makes me sad that I have to cut fun interactions. I cut Kormus Bell, but how fun would it be to turn all lands to creatures thanks to Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth then destroy them all and get zombies for it? I know it sounds gimmicky, but trying to keep this somewhat competitive as well.

It's halfway decent, but that kind of land destruction soft-lock really tends to piss people off. If your group doesn't get pissed from those plays, go for it, but I've seen those plays sour an afternoon plenty of times.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2016 23:21

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Tim Raines IRL posted:

Good calls all around. I have an exploration on the way, and I do have cradles already for legacy elves, but I want to get a foil for this deck...

What would you cut, besides Grove?

I might cut Windstorm and Sylvan Library. Do you have a lot of shuffling synergy that I'm missing?

Also, did you consider Gaea's Touch or Thawing Glaciers for landfall generation? Or are those too much tempo loss?

# ¿ Mar 31, 2016 01:37

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Minorkos posted:

The only ones out of those I dislike are combo and the counterspelling kind of control. I just feel that counterspelling slows down the game and makes it more annoying in general, but that's just a personal preference.

I guess I lied about voltronning when I said I disliked it, it just seems like it would be annoying with the artifact tutoring and the commander tucking and so on. Haven't tried it, though.

I like land destruction. I'm thinking I should just make this Rakdos deck partially based around it, like building a boardstate and armageddoning. My overall gameplan for the deck would be "make games shorter"

edit: oops armageddon is a white spell

Part of commander is dealing with a very random set of cards coming your way, but always having your commander to synergize with your hand. It's a little naive to think that counterspelling slows down the game, but land destruction speeds it up, though.

I recommend looking at the Theros Gods for commanders if you're having trouble. They're pretty balanced between mana cost, utility, and body size, and usually work well with general goodstuff, plus a theme. I just built a semi-budget (~$150) Erebos, God of the Dead deck and it's a lot of fun. Plenty of interactivity, lots of cool creatures, and a good mix of control and aggro.

# ¿ Jul 21, 2016 23:40

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

I've seen a few people roll their eyes at infinite combos in EDH. Mikaeus the Unhallowed + Triskelion, Sanguine Bond + Exquisite Blood, Bloodchief Ascension + Mindcrank, for instance. What's the feelbad there? Plenty of combos will end the game without being infinite, why are the infinite ones worse?

# ¿ Jul 22, 2016 01:36

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Dr. Stab posted:

In a normal game of magic, if someone assembles a two card, 12 mana combo, they did not do an easy thing. EDH is slow, but not that slow.

And that isn't much worse than cheating in/reanimating a Blightsteel Colossus or an Eldrazi. They both put a pretty severe threat on the board, but are vulnerable to removal. Plenty of commanders are game-ending threats on their own.

It's tutoring for the scariest combo pieces that really seems to be the feelbad in EDH. Singleton decks are supposed to play differently from game to game, not unfold identically every time with tutoring for the same cards.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2016 04:25

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Toshimo posted:

Nah. All the problematic expensive cards are fast mana, which in any sane world would already be banned.

That's only relatively true. It's by and large a multi-color format, and there are tons of $30-$150 lands that a strong mana base requires. On top of that, the good draw fixing and useful tutors are in that same price range. You can easily hit $1500 on a mana base and draw fixing cards, before you hit anything specific to your deck.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2016 17:54

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Any feedback on my Erebos Control deck? I built it budget-consciously, so I'm trying to avoid many more $15+ cards. (I already owned a few of the highest-priced cards from way back in the day.)

So far, I'm really happy with it, and it's been a blast to play. I absolutely love Erebos as a commander; instant speed card draw in the early game is amazing, and an indestructible commander really takes the edge off of casting him early and being afraid of removal. My group is semi-casual and it seems to hit the sweet spot between playing Archenemy and handicapping myself.

It's not been a problem keeping up curve-wise, but I could see issues if an opponent ramps out something by turn 4-5. Any obvious cards I'm missing, or obvious pieces of trash I should drop?

# ¿ Aug 12, 2016 04:05

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

The strategy for any color to get around counterspells is to have too many things worth countering. It's a pretty ridiculous deck that tries to counter every spell that happens regardless of value, so if you're continually dropping good threats, they will run out of counters before you run out of things they need to counter. If you have the mana to Genesis Wave for 18, you probably had quite a few turns leading up to that bomb where you could have cast equally ridiculous game-enders.

Meta-wise, a counter-heavy control deck always relies on a big mana base. Card draw (to keep counters in hand, and keep dropping lands) costs a lot of mana, and actually playing threats while leaving mana for counters takes even more. Slanting your removal towards mana sources (say, killing mana rocks instead of holding removal for equipment) hurts those strategies a lot.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2016 18:49

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Coucho Marx posted:

This is pretty much it. Running A) more ramp, and B) cheaper threats means you can easily fight through counterspells. Both Cavern of Souls and Boseiju, Who Shelters All are relevant, too. One of my pet cards is Seeds of Innocence, as most (of my) green decks rely on dorks and don't run too many artifacts, and it's a really cheap way to screw over any deck than relies on mana rocks.

I wouldn't even say it's a matter of more and faster threats. If both of you durdle to turn 6, dropping good 6 CMC threats every turn is a valid strategy. It's only when you run out of steam, and the control deck doesn't, that you're screwed. It's much easier to counter/remove a serious threat every three turns than multiple threats every turn.

That's why Voltron is so useful. 3 CMC threats can work together late game to be immediately dangerous, but also can put pressure on early. Ramping into heavy hitters takes some resources, and leaves you vulnerable to counters, if you can't draw enough fatties.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2016 05:31

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Also TBF, goons in this thread are prone to hyperbole. 100% of cards worth playing are such threats that they'll be removed before you untap, so don't waste your time with them, and don't ever plan on having three permanents out because the board gets swept every second turn.

The most competitive decks just run lots of tutors, and the very best mana bases/ramp. Then they usually cheat in powerful cards, or they combo out. It's hard to stop them with midrange decks, because without cheap spot removal or counters, they can run away, but those cards aren't typically the most efficient to use in the format.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2017 21:55

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

It's no better than giving your dudes double strike. If you want to break it, actually give them double strike for quad triggers.

Also, Cephalid Constable has one of the grossest combat damage triggers out there, when you're multiplying the effect.

Edit: though not for Saskia... tough break on those 4 colors.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2017 20:24

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Seems like a lot of overkill when a 2-3 card combo will probably win already. Why bother with casting 30 sorceries? Swapping Perpetual Timepiece and Morality Shift for a few Wheel effects seems almost as effective if you're playing a lot of haymaker spells, and gives you lots of card draw instead of durdling with your graveyard. The main drawback is casting multiple 7+ mana spells that don't actually do anything on their own.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2017 00:13

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

bigperm posted:

Overkill is sort of the point. I could just use Laboratory Maniac and end my turn and win the game but with Mizzix's you can cast them in any order and I was thinking...

In Garruk's Wake
Rise of the Dark Realms
Burst of Speed
Cleaver Riot
Radiate -> Dog Pile or Massive Raid or Mob Justice

Then Temporal Tresspass and Time Stretch for good measure.

Man that would be so awesome but I don't think it's as possible as I want it to be and the deck to do it wouldn't be fun if it I couldn't pull it off.

I'm just not getting it. If you want to play around with screwy haymakers and embrace randomness (which I'm not judging, that's part of the fun of EDH), go for it. But if you're running a combo to cast every spell in your deck at once, there's not much variety there. Either you have a combo that will win among all the cards in your deck, or you don't. It's completely up to how you built the deck and not very interactive.

If you switched Rise of the Dark Realms with a token generator like Army of the Damned, you wouldn't have to hope that your opponent had enough creatures to kill himself on the board, for example.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2017 02:20

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Breya, Etherium Shaper (Invent Superiority) from Commander 2016 is a pretty fun deck, too, and includes Daretti, to boot. Fairly minimal investment gets you a lot of good options. Just her being able to kill most other commanders with her ability makes her scary, in practice.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2017 01:54

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Dream Tides could be nice for stax

# ¿ Feb 21, 2017 04:14

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Plenty of players just buy the precons and use those without modification. A $100-$200 deck will wipe the floor with them.

I'm not saying those are the guys in dblankenship81's group, but a $1000 deck budget is enough to build pretty much anything if you forego a $2000 mana base.

# ¿ Aug 15, 2017 18:12

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

If the guys are that cutthroat, bring your crunchiest deck and stomp the poo poo out of them. And if you play in a pod and see everyone has softer decks after you win, own up and say "I guess that was an anticlimax," put away your Daretti and pull out a soft "turn dudes sideways" deck.

# ¿ Sep 9, 2017 06:57

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

It could almost be a universal rule for commander: "At the beginning of your end step, if you didn't play a land this turn, you may search your library for a basic land card, and put it on top of your library."

# ¿ Nov 3, 2017 00:18

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

BENGHAZI 2 posted:

This is too much

Eh, if you're land screwed enough to tutor for basic lands instead of a regular draw, getting a land drop every other turn is still falling behind. I'm not married to the idea, it seems more like a mercy rule to me than a power up.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2017 19:39

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Magnetic North posted:

I only care when people have like Tempest Plains, Alara Island, 7th Edition Swamp, Amonkhet Island, Revised Plains because all the dissonance in the card borders and frames. I would never criticize someone for it, but it does actually bother me a tiny bit. Which is silly, I admit.

I went out of my way to get different Islands for my Teferi deck. Japanese Tempest, Revised, Beta, 9th Edition, 1996 Promo, Foil Urza's Saga, you name it.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2017 09:11

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

It's a losing battle to defend reliquary tower, but it's more about holding onto 15 cards, should the need arise, than holding onto 8. That's probably worth a land drop.

# ¿ Nov 12, 2017 06:37

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

The Shortest Path posted:

Mana Drain is also as cheap as it will likely ever be so if you can scrape together the fifty bux for it...

Didn't realize Mana Drain from the new set is so cheap, I'm definitely jumping on that train. When I bought Legends ones 20 years ago it was already more than $50.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2018 23:30

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

hoobajoo posted:

Working on an Edric Flying Man deck. Does anyone have thoughts on how many 1/1 evasive dorks I should run?

I've never built Edric, but I'd guess around 30-35 dorks, maybe 10-15 pieces of interaction, and 10-15 buffs and extra turns.

# ¿ Apr 11, 2018 20:16

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

I meant buffs like Beastmaster Ascension or Craterhoof (though not actually Craterhoof, it's too slow) as finishers, and Skullclamp. Doesn't Edric run out of steam going through 120 life with 1/1s, without some anthems or infect shenanigans?

# ¿ Apr 11, 2018 20:38

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

I'm kind of shocked that nobody says Hermit Druid. You need to untap with it, but any deck with it will win if it activates. 1-card infinite combos regardless of fragility break the format.

# ¿ Apr 17, 2018 05:39

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Owlbear Camus posted:

What's a good, budget wincon for a 50-75% Simic Merfolk deck that wants something for when turning fish sideways isn't getting it done?

Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Blue Sun's Zenith
Deadeye Navigator (+ some ETB combo)
Tidespout Tyrant
Cyclonic Rift
Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Wanderwine Prophets

The planeswalkers and Deadeye strike me as the most 50%-75% wincons there, the other ones might be too effective if the game isn't already stalled out.

# ¿ May 24, 2018 23:22

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Matsuri posted:

Hot drat Flusterstorm is down to $10 and Mana Drain is below $50. Those... are some pretty good cards to grab too. Argh.

(I guess it helps that entire BOOSTER BOXES of Iconic Masters and Masters 25 and such are almost down to the price of... a regular booster box.)

drat, thanks for the tip on Flusterstorm. I picked up a Pact of Negation, too, those have come down to about $10.

# ¿ May 31, 2018 19:29

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

xarph posted:

I'm an rear end in a top hat and want to get naked singularity into a commander deck. What's a good five color commander that would actually be useful and castable while I dig for it? Is Ramos Dragon Engine basically it for usable commanders?

Just build a deck with Contamination, instead? Or Stax? Or Anvil of Bogardan/Notion Thief? If you want to lock down a board, it's easier to be an rear end in a top hat than Naked Singularity.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2018 00:02

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

KenBearlLOLOL posted:

Sphinx tribal looks a lot like U/W control but that kind of defeats the purpose of "griffin tribal for my buddy who played lots of griffins as a kid." There are enough griffins to make a deck but it's never going to be anywhere near impressive because they're usually draft-playables at best.

Mulloy, if you picked a Bant commander for it there's the option of packing a Food Chain setup using Misthollow Griffin and Eternal Scourge but I'm not sure what you'd use as a wincon other than Ballista (and Trinket Mage as a redundant copy I guess).

He could try badfeels/stax with GAAIV or Gaddock Teeg? No wincons, just goodstuff and anthems, some card draw and control, and some fat battlecruiser cards like Craterhoof, Elesh Norn, Jazal Goldmane, etc. that can close out the game.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2018 20:13

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

STANKBALLS TASTYLEGS posted:

oh third actual commander from the jund deck

Too bad he's not in colors that the Izzet token commander can combine with. That'd be a hell of a potential synergy.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2018 21:52

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

How do people get their cards so chewed up in the first place? Am I the only one who played with sleeves in the 1990s?

# ¿ Aug 9, 2018 17:01

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

AlternateNu posted:

There was a period in early Magic where sleeves were actually illegal for tournament play.

Maybe in very, very early magic, like before Revised came out. I played in DCI tournaments during Ice Age block and every single deck was sleeved.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2018 17:36

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

midge posted:

Unsleeved decks at World Championships 1998 around 13 mins in; maybe because it's filmed?.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ausDOPOdCw

Not saying you're wrong, but it's inaccurate to suggest everyone sleeved their poo poo back then. I know when I played around 4th edition few people had sleeves, they were a luxury back then.

In the video, Finkel has his deck in sleeves during the interview, and there is a sleeve box on the table during the match. I don't know why the decks were unsleeved, but it's probably because of the camera.

I played at the Pro Tour LA in 1998, and won the Vintage (called Type 1 back then) side event. You can bet everyone rocking Power 9s and 20+ ABUR duals had their decks in sleeves.

edit: playing without sleeves was common in limited formats because there were rarely chase cards in new sets, and nobody every opened up old stuff to draft with. But obviously it's legal to play without sleeves, as long as you don't have double-faced cards.

Infinite Karma fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Aug 9, 2018

# ¿ Aug 9, 2018 18:17

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

I'm not married to Reliquary Tower, but do you really not see a situation where you might draw extra cards when you already have a full hand during early turns?

You end up with 10 cards in hand at the end of say, turn 3, and three of them are lands (that can easily happen with an early Mystic Remora). A few are mana ramp/rocks, some interaction, a combo piece, and some utility cards. Discarding down to 7 isn't going to hurt hugely, but it does squander the advantage you'd have had from that early card draw. Once you drop a few more lands and use the cheap interaction burning a hole in your pocket, you'll be back down below 7. It's a marginal tradeoff to have Reliquary Tower in decks where that can happen.

At competitive tables, yeah, you can win with 7 good cards, easily, and a six CMC spell could easily win the game right there. Almost nobody plays EDH at that level, and pubstomping with a deck like that is a dick move.

Infinite Karma fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Aug 13, 2018

# ¿ Aug 13, 2018 07:36

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Babylon Astronaut posted:

Yea, you guys are just awful if you can't imagine winning a game of commander without needing more than 7 cards in hand. Get some good cards, like grey ogre or something. That's not very competitive at all, and if your table is just people who draw cards, and play no threats, a stack of random draft leavings will seem like pubstomping. Seriously, you don't get a prize for playing cards that are so bad, they gain nothing by being played on curve.

Tempo is real people. It's the most important resource. Playing a 1 drop on turn 1, a 2 drop on turn 2, and a 3 drop on turn 3 is going to be much better than playing 2, 2 drops on turn 4, or living the dream and casting 4 one drops. You're not getting anything by casting cheap cards late in the game, because you didn't know to refill your hand AFTER you play the cards and not before.

You misunderstood me, hard. I do have those decks that win on Turn 2, and you can bet I don't need more than 7 cards in those games. And playing a combo deck has nothing to do with curves, most of the cards are 1-2 cmc, with only a few finishers above that, or else you're durdling. I enjoy the format, it's the closest I get to 90s Vintage with those tight and heavily meta-based decks.

I also have battlecruiser decks that have cards like Serra Angel, even though I could cast Ad Nauseam and just win with the same 5 mana, because some tables play Serra Angels and Karoos. If you start talking about immediate value and quick kills at those tables, you're quickly back to Breakfast Hulk and Blood Pod, so you have to not look too hard or you break the illusion.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2018 15:32

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 15:38

Infinite Karma: Oct 23, 2004; Good as dead

Aranan posted:

[edit] My actual answer to the above question is because people actually play EDH, but effectively nobody plays the dead formats of Vintage or Legacy. Plus the multiplayer aspect can be fun a lot of the time with decent human beings. Too bad decent human beings don't play Magic.

The other real answer is that Magic for fun shouldn't be a pay-to-win game. If the only reason you're not playing a $10,000 murder-deck against people running precons is that you don't own the cards, that's a bad reason. And it's hard to say this without coming off like an rear end in a top hat, but some groups just don't care about developing player skill the same way - if you built cEDH decks and handed them out to a lot of battlecruiser players, they wouldn't be able to (or want to) pilot them. I'm sure they could learn, it just takes time to memorize deck archetypes and interaction possibilities, which isn't fun for some people.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2018 18:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > M:tG Commander Thread: yeah okay I pubstomped my wife

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