|
HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:I'd have to go back and look but I want to say it was a Tyrion chapter. As far as I remember there were no Oberyn chapters. That would be an odd chapter. "The Mountain was saying something but Oberyn couldn't hear over the din of his own screaming"
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 09:18 |
|
|
I'm definitely one of those people who's getting frustrated with the ever-decreasing number of actually heroic characters. Everyone gets the "sometimes evil wins," and "the world is a harsh place" aspects of the story. But the constant repetition of those themes isn't really enriching anything at this point. At the very least, this should piss Dorne off pretty severely. I'd love to see Ellaria Sand put the Mountain down next week if he somehow didn't die already. It'd suck if Oberyn's death means literally nothing; instigating Dorne's renewed antagonism of the Lannisters would be a great compromise.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:32
|
|
|
gently caress, this episode was messed up. I knew Oberryn was probably gonna eat it when he went in prancing. Then there was that tiny hope that "oh hey, he has him down, just stab him a few more times, you and Tyrion can laugh and laugh"... and then it took too long. And you just knew. But godamn, I did not know how. Nothing in this show will feel better than when Cersei gets hers. When that day Tyrion threatened actually comes. Because godamn, she loving exudes an aura of hate. Tywin is a cold bastard, but at least his bullshit has purpose (and loving works often enough, as we saw with Jorah). Plus he gets mad points for not being super into Joffrey (and seemingly hardly giving a poo poo about who killed him). Time for Varys to become a main character again by saving Tyrion. Come on, buddy. Send him to the desert so they'll stop inventing sex plots involving eunuchs! You didn't get one, why should Grey Worm? Or send him north and have him help Jon. Jon likes him. God knows they need the help. I think Gregor sealed the fate of the Lannisters. If Oberryn lives, Dorne stays neutral; now, they might have some things to say (though I guess their ruler is sickly?). Bad enough that the Vale is mobilizing, but Roose Bolton is in charge of the North, and he's not big on loyalty. And his son bores easily. Tyrion either dies, or runs, and with him goes the most skilled player who truly cares about the king's fate. Tommen is so hosed. So very very hosed. Sansa growing agency this episode was awesome. It was less awesome that she did it to save Littlefinger, but that's okay. Plenty of time for her to stab him later. Not too shocked the Starks didn't reunite (and probably won't). Seems like they'll only see each other again at the end, if at all. I thought she was wearing black because her aunt just died and they were on their way to her funeral. Or it could be a twist wedding, though Sansa is technically still married... I like Ygritte, kinda bummed that they gave her that moment of sparing Gilly. Mostly because it feels like they're making sure we still like her for when she dies. I wonder if ep 9 will just be stories not touched on in this one. Feels like a lot of stuff is building all at once. Where is Stannis going? Are they gonna hit King's Landing? That would help a possible Tyrion escape. Or are they gonna save Castle Black (which makes more sense because they'd be at King's Landing fairly quickly)? Is Jon Snow ever gonna punch that smarmy guy who is in charge? Is Arya destined to just be a psycho? With the reward gone, where will the Hound find his next chicken? Are they gonna run into Pod and Brienne and form a band? Is Dany gonna go psycho-queen now that her voice of reason is gone? Mukip posted:Alright, so they're devastating warriors to have around if you need to raid a fishing village. They sound like such posers. The real secret as to why the Iron Islanders are allowed to keep their little kingdom is because they are truly pathetic and crushing them periodically helps keep all the soldiers trained. They are the shittiest raiders ever. They took empty castles while their full garrisons were out fighting real wars, and the minute any resistance came, they bolted. Xealot posted:At the very least, this should piss Dorne off pretty severely. I'd love to see Ellaria Sand put the Mountain down next week if he somehow didn't die already. It'd suck if Oberyn's death means literally nothing; instigating Dorne's renewed antagonism of the Lannisters would be a great compromise. The trouble I'd have with Dorne getting mad is that Oberryn loving volunteered for the fight, and then only lost because he didn't finish it properly. They'll still be mad, but it's hardly a legitimate grievance. Like that has ever ever mattered Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Jun 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:33
|
|
|
HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:I'd have to go back and look but I want to say it was a Tyrion chapter. As far as I remember there were no Oberyn chapters. I'll go into more detail later, but I'm taping on a tablet and it's a bitch to go into a long explanation. For now I'll just say it's my speculation. I don't know for sure, and I could be wrong.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:33
|
|
|
Ahh ok I'm tablet posting myself. I do look forward to hearing what you have to say. Just so you know it's not antagonistic at all, purely academic. I'd just like to see if I can fit my proverbial feet into your shoes. Mine blew off my feet when Oberyns eyeballs were blasted out of his head. Somewhere in Essos a pair of eyeballs came exploding out of the ground and probably killed someone.Steve Yun posted:That would be an odd chapter. "Suddenly Oberyn was knocked to the ground with a splitting headache. Milk of the poppy, a gift from the gods he thought as his nose started to bleed." HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jun 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:42
|
|
|
Bobo the Red posted:Or it could be a twist wedding, though Sansa is technically still married... Not for long, she's soon to be a widow and free to remarry. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:43
|
|
|
Xealot posted:I'm definitely one of those people who's getting frustrated with the ever-decreasing number of actually heroic characters. Everyone gets the "sometimes evil wins," and "the world is a harsh place" aspects of the story. But the constant repetition of those themes isn't really enriching anything at this point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:45
|
|
|
JESUS CHRIST. I was going to bitch a little because there was so much to the episode that felt like endless padding before the fight, like the completely uninteresting Grey Worm/Missandrei romance (though seeing that actress bathe may have given me a small brain hemorrhage). In any other episode, Ramsay getting acknowledged and moving into Winterfell, Jorah getting exiled (I hope we don't have to wait to see where he goes), Arya almost breaking the fourth wall (and I wonder if we're being set up for the Hound eventually dying a stupid death of gangrene here?), Jaime and Tyrion being actually brotherly with each other, would've all been pretty cool, but I just. wanted. to get. to the fight. I recognize that feeling of tension other people mentioned, this episode is the kind that getting spoiled would really have badly ruined. So many movies and TV shows adhere to tropes, that seeing something where you honestly don't know how it's going to go is a rare treat. I really wanted Oberyn to come out alive, and before the episode I had been reasonably sure of that, but the moment that scene started that all went out the window. I briefly thought maybe Tywin was going to get a spear in the chest if the Mountain accused him, but no. That death scene: sickening, absolutely horrific, left me nauseous, but didn't feel gratuitous or unnecessary. Jesus. I really want to believe something's going to happen that saves Tyrion, but I'm not sure at all anymore. Maybe Varys will come through after all, maybe Stannis's new force will attack during the execution... maybe Tyrion gets his head lopped off and again I'll be left wondering who to root for, like after the Red Wedding. If they withhold the execution until the next season, I'm going to cut a bitch. Oh poo poo, isn't this season only half of one book?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:46
|
|
|
Can you book readers please stop having attempts at vague conversations about why something definitely will or won't happen with Sansa or the fallout from the trial. You're about as subtle as a Mountain smash to the face.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:46
|
|
|
Jedimastafez posted:Edit: Really hope the Mountain still dies from his wounds - gently caress that guy I'm hoping for death by chicken bone.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:47
|
|
|
The mountain hasn't show up on screen much, I wish they had done LOTR style perspective shots to make him seen bigger and maybe a tiny stunt double for the fight. Other than that this was pretty drat awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:55
|
|
|
HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:Ahh ok I'm tablet posting myself. I do look forward to hearing what you have to say. Just so you know it's not antagonistic at all, purely academic. I'd just like to see if I can fit my proverbial feet into your shoes. Mine blew off my feet when Oberyns eyeballs were blasted out of his head. Somewhere in Essos a pair of eyeballs came exploded out of the ground and probably killed someone. That last part made me laugh. Okay, I'll try to be succinct with my reasoning. I ask what is Petyr Baelish's weakness? In his weakness lies the thing to bring down. I think his weakness is connected not to his love for Catelyn, but why he fell in love with her in the first place. He might not be aware of this weakness (as most of us are often blind to our weaknesses), but if Sansa figures it out, she does have the upper hand, so to speak. Petyr tells Sansa if your enemies don't know what you want you keep them confused about what you'll do next. The problem for Petyr now is figuring out what Sansa wants. She's not a little kid anymore. She's turning into a woman with desires of her own, desires he hasn't yet figured out. As long as he was certain of Sansa's naïveté he could let down his guard. And he's already told her too much about why he's done this and that. As Sansa gets wise she becomes a player in the game, and other players are always threats. Bare in mind this is only what I see in the show. And like I thought, this was a bitch to type. BubbleGoose fucked around with this message at 12:10 on Jun 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 11:59
|
|
|
bob holness paradox posted:Can you book readers please stop having attempts at vague conversations about why something definitely will or won't happen with Sansa or the fallout from the trial. You're about as subtle as a Mountain smash to the face.  Sansa's current storyline ended two weeks ago at the moon door. It's new content from here on out. Also I think you're just being paranoid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:01
|
|
|
Nelson Mandingo posted:
We're going to be at the rear end end of next season with no Winds in sight and there are still going to be weirdos whining about books in these threads.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:05
|
|
|
Perfect Potato posted:We're going to be at the rear end end of next season with no Winds in sight and there are still going to be weirdos whining about books in these threads. There has to be whining or the pagecount of these threads would barely make it into double digits.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:06
|
|
|
People complain about the books because other people don't read the loving OP, and post about the books all the loving time in these threads. How is anyone supposed to know if "Oh boy are you in for a surprise" is bullshit or not?pigdog posted:Not for long, she's soon to be a widow and free to remarry. You shut your mouth
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:13
|
|
|
Nelson Mandingo posted:
Yeah we're as clueless about Sansa's storyline as you all are. I'm actually really happy to see them go beyond her last chapter because she's my favorite character and I was dying to know what was gonna happen next. Really happy I won't have to wait 20 years to find out.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:14
|
|
|
Wow, RIP Oberyn.  That death made me squirm a little, pretty brutal. What a fantastic death for a fantastic character, though. Isn't there only one episode left? Xenaero fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jun 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:16
|
|
|
Xenaero posted:Isn't there only one episode left? Two.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:17
|
|
|
Bobo the Red posted:Is Jon Snow ever gonna punch that smarmy guy who is in charge? Ser Alliser Thorne And as an aside - I saw him in a movie called "Hunky Dory" the other day and it was the weirdest part for him.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:22
|
|
|
BubbleGoose posted:Well, I guessed it worked for you and others. But I wasn't shell shocked, just disgusted. As in 'that was disgusting and tasteless.' I could have done without because it didn't add anything to me but sensationalist tv. If others took away something from it, fine. I'm just not convinced there was anything more going on than exploitation. For instance, many viewers were put off by the Ramsey/Reek torture scene. I wasn't particularly bothered by it, but I could respect others not takin well to it. I actually kind of find those Ramsey scenes fascinating because of reaction, not because of the scenes. Theon was a MAJOR rear end in a top hat and we all wanted horrible loving things to happen to him. Then when that came, a lot of people were like "This is what you get, rear end in a top hat!" Then as it went on.. and on.. and on.. well, it was interesting to see when people really said "Enough!" when faced with a proverbial wishlist of things happening to him. [ED: Also amusing is because of those horrible things people are now generally sympathetic to Theon, despite the fact he murdered people who considered him family and random children, and the whole reason he is in this mess is he stabbed his best friend in the back, also helping lead to his death.] I can definitely see an argument for sensationalist TV, in particular when the show itself is very open to that more than a few places. But I really do think there was some legit artistic merit going on with this scene too. They wanted to punch the viewer in the gut, and to do that, they had to take off the gloves. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Jun 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:24
|
|
|
davidspackage posted:Oh poo poo, isn't this season only half of one book? The second half of 'A Storm of Swords'. The Oberyn vs Gregor duel happened in Chapter 70 of 80, while the Red Wedding (S3E9) was Chapter 51 of 80.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:28
|
|
|
davidspackage posted:like the completely uninteresting Grey Worm/Missandrei romance I don't know. The implications of it made me interested, but not as a pure romantic subplot. A) Are the Unsullied now going to get interested in romantic interests? Won't this lead to a total collapse of their strict way of life? B) What kind of creepy obsession could build up in a trained super soldier that can't do anything about his longings, really Long story short I could see this realistically backfiring horribly and leading to some serious setbacks on that side of the world. Maybe that's not what they are going for, and it's just going to be an innocent romance, but when the hell has that happened on GoT before?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:33
|
|
|
Yureina posted:The second half of 'A Storm of Swords'. The Oberyn vs Gregor duel happened in Chapter 70 of 80, while the Red Wedding (S3E9) was Chapter 51 of 80. Oh, that's good to know. I watched the "inside the episode" for this one linked earlier, and David Benioff dropped something interesting but possibly spoilery: he says something along the lines of "the Mountain's just been stabbed, been poisoned... Oberyn poisoned his spears before battle? I presume we'll find out quickly next week. I kind of hope the Mountain makes it so someone else gets a chance to put him down, but that's not really how this show works.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:44
|
|
|
Blazing Ownager posted:I don't know. The implications of it made me interested, but not as a pure romantic subplot. Dany really needs more bad poo poo to happen to her, until recently her arc seemed to be from a different story rather than just a different continent. We're finally starting to see some of her decisions do have consequences, so I have almost zero doubt bad things will result from this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:44
|
|
|
BubbleGoose posted:That last part made me laugh. Okay, I'll try to be succinct with my reasoning. I ask what is Petyr Baelish's weakness? In his weakness lies the thing to bring down. I think his weakness is connected not to his love for Catelyn, but why he fell in love with her in the first place. He might not be aware of this weakness (as most of us are often blind to our weaknesses), but if Sansa figures it out, she does have the upper hand, so to speak. Petyr tells Sansa if your enemies don't know what you want you keep them confused about what you'll do next. The problem for Petyr now is figuring out what Sansa wants. She's not a little kid anymore. She's turning into a woman with desires of her own, desires he hasn't yet figured out. As long as he was certain of Sansa's naïveté he could let down his guard. And he's already told her too much about why he's done this and that. As Sansa gets wise she becomes a player in the game, and other players are always threats. Sorry about your fingers. I hear plunging them into eye sockets helps. So you're taking into account the evolution and growth as characters. I did not take this into account so you've got me there. In light of that I'll concede that at some point she may well have him by the balls but I'd argue he'd manipulate her in some way to get out of it. I'd also add that, at least for the moment, she's aimless. Take a look at Arya, she's on a mission to kill drat near everyone. She's proactive to Sansa's reactive nature. Lastly for the moment Littlefinger is so much older and more experienced in Game that no matter how much progress she makes he's still ahead. Unless this goes on long enough that Baelish plateaus, and then she overtakes him. If you turn out to be right when this thing, being the show, is said and done then your platinum account is on me. I'd include the books but we both know we could type out War and Peace on our tablets three times over before we get the next book. HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Jun 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 12:44
|
|
|
Vehementi posted:Came here with this sentiment. I'm fine with Oberyn losing or whatever, but this was an extremely dumb scene. "lol he wasn't actually wounded, GOT YA!" despite being speared at least 1 foot through the chest. ROH-KAY The red wedding is way more preposterous in the the book because the boltons/freys are also hiding a fully armed and armored cavalry corp somewhere in the Twins to ride down the whole Stark army. It is not a loving masterstroke and is done way better in the show. Also I think you meant Robb.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:03
|
|
It's like the red wedding where 500 soldiers kept a perfect secret etc. and it was this preposterously elaborate plot. Kill Jon? OK fine. Masterstroke of writing, nobody saw it coming because you wanted to have him avenge Ned and all your hope is crushed. But the way it was presented in the TV show? loving lol are you serious? It's like they bring in a retarded guest director for some important episodes.
|
Goddamnit the cool guy died  The mountain's still dead though, right? If Tyrion dies I think I'll give up and root for the white walkers to murder everyone.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:11
|
|
|
Infinite Monkeys posted:The mountain's still dead though, right? The theory is that Oberyn poisoned his spears, so the Mountain's fate is likely sealed. 1. His nickname is The Red Viper 2. Just before the fight, he was shown "polishing" his spears (lol)
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:17
|
|
|
Cingulate posted:To be fair, the point of Theon failing to decapitate cleanly was less to imply physical weakness, more to imply lack of skill. 4 pages late but I thought this scene was about showing his mental strength at the moment. He wasn't hitting with his full strength because he didn't actually want to kill that guy and hesitated a lot. Also to enjoy this show it is important to realise that humans are inherently evil and all deserve the worst.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:18
|
|
|
As ridiculous as the violence in this show is, it still feels strangely authentic. Has anyone read any of the classics or any of the chansons de geste? Dudes get their spines lanced out of their backs and get torn to pieces in the most ridiculous ways possible, rivers are so choked with blood that the fish drown etc... Every time a head gets crushed or a dude gets lopped in two it reminds me of that kind of stuff. The Grey Worm romance is there to fill the Jorah void and keep Dany in the picture.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:18
|
|
|
FartGhost posted:
George was quoted recently I think stating something to the effect of no matter what he writes, he still can't compare to the evil that has occurred in the real world.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:24
|
|
|
Traitorous Leopard posted:George was quoted recently I think stating something to the effect of no matter what he writes, he still can't compare to the evil that has occurred in the real world. Ah gently caress right off George. Killing the Viper was bang out of order.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:29
|
|
|
It wasn't the first time that Oberyn's head exploded into another man's hands, but it certainly was the last. RIP.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:31
|
|
|
Nelson Mandingo posted:
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:35
|
|
|
Infinite Monkeys posted:Isn't season 4 adapted from the second half of book 3? You might want to PM somebody if you're curious to know details about which storylines are currently from which book.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:36
|
|
|
Do we have a current YouTube link to the fight?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:39
|
|
|
I was pretty sure Oberyn was going to die but I was still incredibly shocked by how it panned out. Before the episode I thought he might kill the mountain but then die of his wounds or be 'treated' by Maester Pycelle afterwards and conveniently die then. It would be ironic for someone called the red viper to die by poison, after all. (Yeah, it's pretty obvious that I would not be a good writer) The Mountain pushing his thumbs into his eye sockets was the moment that really got to me, along with Oberyn's tooth-broken open-mouthed scream. Everything, from his lover's screams, to the camera going to the Lannisters and the crowd back to his mutilated corpse added up to the most disturbing moment of the whole show. But hey, at least we had a heartwarming moment of Ramsay finally being appreciated by his father.  The Boltons are both terrific in their roles and Theon's actor portrays a broken man so well; he really looked so lost and terrified when the lead iron born said he wouldn't surrender. Those Bolton flags were pretty nifty too, their sigil might be the best one of them all.Also, Sansa is great and I refuse to hear otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:40
|
|
|
For the seven and a half episodes worth of build up that fight, it was disappointing in every way possible. If we're going by realism, somebody who is at the point where he can go pole vaulting with a poison spear stuck in his opponent's chest is simply going to win 100% of the time. Ned getting executed was a distinct possibility because Joffrey is stupid enough and has the authority for it. The Red Wedding is based on a similar event in history and it's hardly the largest scale betrayal that ever happened. Gregor coming back from the dead with even more retard strength is just stupid. If we're going by what would be an interesting story, Oberyn trying to figure out what to do next now that he's accomplished his life's goal and Tyrion dealing with the fallout of the accusations against him is more interesting than a barely sentient tower of meat killing them who then fucks off again for three more seasons until he has another horse to decapitate. Ned's death set up the plot for the entire succession war and his own role was played out already. Robb's death created the power vacuum that shook up everybody's web of alliances everywhere. Oberyn being dead and Tyrion about to die will just result in status quo, minus two good actors in the King's Landing segments, which has already been haemorrhaging a lot of talent. If we're going by what would be a good twist, SURPRISE SOULSTONE is the worst thing they could have done. They could have Oberyn do his dance moves around the arena and then get caught by a zweihander in mid air when he takes his stupid stunts within range of the Mountain, they could have had Oberyn poke at him and the Mountain's armour deflecting everything(speaking of which, what the gently caress is up with that). Ned's death was a good twist because you would normally expect Joffrey to show a bit of reason but he can believably decide to not do so, Robb's death was a good twist because the organisers both had good reasons and an opportunity to do so. The Mountain's rear end pull of a super move at 5% health feels just as much of a cop out as it does in videogames where it happens especially after Oberyn already recovered from the standard reversal of fortune by having a squire ready with a second spear in case he got disarmed. On an unrelated note, Thenns are apparently a culture of cannibalistic James May clones because in all the fight they've been in they're never moved at a pace faster than walking.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 09:18 |
|
|
Lycus posted:Not entirely, Season 4 is a mixture of books 3 (latter half), 4, and 5, with a tiny bit of future material sprinkled in.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 13:46
|
|