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Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Wheeeeeee!



You might want to look at AbsoluteWrite. It's mostly a shithole, but it's a major gathering place for writers, so maybe you'll get something out of it.

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ketchup vs catsup
Nov 30, 2006


Sundae posted:

You might want to look at AbsoluteWrite. It's mostly a shithole, but it's a major gathering place for writers, so maybe you'll get something out of it.

As far as I can tell, they're EXTREMELY anti-self publishing.

my suggestion would be reddit.com/r/selfpublish and /r/writing

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the nuggets in front of me

I'd like to know of more hangouts - kboards seems to get mentioned a lot. Just to broaden my knowledge base.

I could do with knowing places that do discuss authoring erotica, maybe add a link to the op, like 'we don't discuss erotica in this thread so go here, here and here' or some such.

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


ravenkult posted:

Is Bookblast still worth trying? It says on their website it's unlikely they will accept a short story collection that's not free, anyone know how strict they are about it?

I wanted to reply to this again and say that I had to use this because it was the last piece of paid promo that I hadn't used for a book I really wanted to succeed, and it was a huge letdown. Delta(Copies Sold) between July 3/4 and July 5 was less than 10%, what a waste of money.

In good news, Pub Yourself Press is pubbin' along.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


I was looking for some advice. Over the last year, I've been working on a project that I've been intending to digitally self-publish. It's a series of young adult horror novellas. Think Goosebumps for older kids.

Since I started the project, I've always planned on releasing the books for free. I don't really care about making money off of this, and my day job pays well enough that I'm even okay operating this project at a loss. I do care about people actually reading the thing. I've just operated under the assumption that offering it for free will give me a wider audience. Now, I'm a bit afraid that offering it for free will actually denote a cheapness in quality and actually deter some readers. Does anyone have any thoughts?

psychopomp
Jan 27, 2011


You could just publish it through Wattpad or something.

Ghostwoods
May 9, 2013

Say "Cheese!"


Bobby Deluxe posted:

I'd like to know of more hangouts - kboards seems to get mentioned a lot.

Kboards is a totally toxic hell-hole. Reminds me of a pretentiously-veiled /b/

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Wheeeeeee!



EngineerSean posted:

I wanted to reply to this again and say that I had to use this because it was the last piece of paid promo that I hadn't used for a book I really wanted to succeed, and it was a huge letdown. Delta(Copies Sold) between July 3/4 and July 5 was less than 10%, what a waste of money.

In good news, Pub Yourself Press is pubbin' along.

Glad that PYP is working out well for you. Got any new ones coming along? I saw your first two went pretty nicely.


Has anyone tried BookGorilla yet? I've been avoiding it so far due to it being run by the KND people. I dislike KND's extremely dishonest claims of efficacy that they base purely on rank / % growth with the unstated assumption that they were the only scheduled promo for your book. (AKA, if you start out at 100,000 and go to rank 1,000 after booking with KND, KFD, and BookSends, KND will list your book on their sheet and claim, to other potential clients, that they gave you a 10,000% improvement in rank through their service, no matter how many sales you get through them.)

However, if it works, I'd be up for it. Not everything gets a Bookbub.

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


Sundae posted:

Glad that PYP is working out well for you. Got any new ones coming along? I saw your first two went pretty nicely.

Probably not this month due to our summer vacations but we've got a couple slated for August. One of the books we published deserves a sequel and we'll publish it as quickly as the author has completed it. It's holding rank pretty steady at 700, would love to have every book we publish have that kind of performance.

Hijinks Ensue
Jul 24, 2007


Woohoo! My debut novel made it to 50 Amazon customer reviews.

Grammaton
Feb 3, 2004
Cleric

How much do editors usually charge per 100k words?

Anomalous Blowout
Feb 13, 2006

I crashed Thunderdome's 6th Birthday and all I got was this av!

Icon-Cat posted:

Some of you will know these places, some won't, but here are some neat resources for good high-res FREE stock photos I've been compiling recently.

Unsplash - has a very 'literary fiction or upscale women's-fiction book cover' feel
http://www.unsplash.com

Flickr Commons - old photographs and art from historical archives and governments
https://www.flickr.com/commons

A further note on government pictures: science fiction folks, NASA and the Air Force and such maintain archives of high-quality photos here and there, I just don't happen to have links

Wikimedia Commons - very hit-and-miss but sometimes you find a good high-res thing
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Getty Open Content - lots of old art from the Getty Museum et al
https://www.getty.edu/about/opencontent.html

Splitshire
http://splitshire.com/

Gratisography
http://www.gratisography.com/

IM Free - Be careful and check the Creative Commons license for each individual pic - some of the pics are free to do anything with and some aren't.
http://www.imcreator.com/free

Morgue File - very hit-and-miss
http://www.morguefile.com/

Hey, I know this post is a little old but I just wanted to let you know it's really appreciated! I just found an excellent image here for use in a project of mine. I had no idea Gratisography existed and they had something that was exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks for this.

Ghostwoods
May 9, 2013

Say "Cheese!"


Grammaton posted:

How much do editors usually charge per 100k words?

Professionals will charge in the region of $2k. Editing a 100k novel is a hell of a lot of work -- unless you do a bad job and just skimp.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Grammaton posted:

How much do editors usually charge per 100k words?

Line edit : $350 to $1000

Developmental/Copy : $850 to $$$$

There is a huge variance in price. I'd check out the Goon Recommended list. There are a ridiculous amount of people doing it and quality/delivery is not in line with price.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Wheeeeeee!



So, what're people reading these days? Anything interesting or awesome?

I wanted to see how the New Adult subject matter could mix with fantasy, and I gave "The Magicians" by Lev Grossman a shot. Honestly, didn't like it and apparently neither did a lot of people who weren't sure what the book was supposed to be. People who wanted fantasy felt that it fell short there and ended miserably, and people who wanted NA fiction felt that it hadn't focused enough on the angsty angst.

I kind of agree with them - it tries to thread the needle and just doesn't work.

I'm currently working through "Maybe Someday" by Colleen Hoover. Standard NA romance, reading it mainly because Colleen is an extremely popular author who seems to hit all the right notes with her audience. So far, it's about what I'd expect.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Cormac McCarthy's "Blood Meridian" at the moment. After that it'll be "The Power and the Glory".

To top it off is a few Warhammer 40k novels. I like to keep abreast of the modern pulp.

Ghostwoods
May 9, 2013

Say "Cheese!"


Yooper posted:

Line edit : $350 to $1000
Developmental/Copy : $850 to $$$$

That's wildly unrealistic for a professional, Yooper. Check out the Editorial Freelancer's Association standard rates card.

I totally agree that charging standard rates is no guarantee of quality, but sadly the opposite holds true -- undercharging means that either the person has no idea what they're doing, or they're totally new (i.e. unproven) and desperately need some income. For a 100k novel, even a proof-read starts in at a minmum of ~$925. A cheap basic edit -- on a reasonably well-written book, in other words -- will be $1750+. Useful developmental editing will be significantly more.

magnificent7
Sep 22, 2005

THUNDERDOME LOSER


It's worth noting that a newer editor may not be as fast, but can still be good.

I'm working with one now and she's great, but considers herself a fledgling editor. Her feedback is dead-on, and she's working with me on the overall story, not just grammar or plot points. I feel like it's a solid partnership, not just a business transaction.

In my case, time isn't a major issue; I've got a day job, wife, kids, a meth lab, producing that reality fishing show, along with actually trying to tighten up my MS, chapter-by-chapter, before she gets to that chapter. If I had more time to work on my novel, if I'd spent the amount of time on it that I wish I could, and felt the only thing between me and publishing is the editor?

Sure, I'd want an editor to devour it and get it back to me asap.

As it is, I prefer the slower pace, working in installments of a few chapters at a time. I can sit on her feedback and think it over. I don't know if I'd have that luxury with an editor that took a week to go through the entire MS and sent it back with a bill.

I've decided to go with self-pubbing this book instead of seeking an agent and a publisher. Since it's my first book, I think the time I'd spend querying and tracking queries, revisions to the query, networking with the agents, and then to repeat all that for a publisher -- I think it's wiser to take that time and effort and put it into doing it myself. Sink everything into this book, market the hell out of it, and then, if it's successful, it'll be easier to approach traditional publishers with my next one.

And if it fails miserably? Then it's time to take up a different hobby. I always liked improv.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Sundae posted:

I wanted to see how the New Adult subject matter could mix with fantasy, and I gave "The Magicians" by Lev Grossman a shot. Honestly, didn't like it and apparently neither did a lot of people who weren't sure what the book was supposed to be. People who wanted fantasy felt that it fell short there and ended miserably, and people who wanted NA fiction felt that it hadn't focused enough on the angsty angst.
Really? I loved the Magicians and the sequel to it, I thought it did a great job at hooking me even with a completely irredeemable main character. Quentin is perfectly flawed in the same way I was back when I was an overachieving high school kid, and I loved the meta-narrative he has running through his head with references to Narnia and Harry Potter whenever something "magical" happens to him. But I can see how people wouldn't like it, and I do wish there had been some more original fantasy elements. It was a dark, adult Harry Potter with a dick for a main character. He grows a lot over the course of the book, but never redeems himself, at least not in the two books in the series I read. I would think most NA fans would hate that sort of unfinished character arc. I loved it, because hey, some people are just dicks no matter what they go through.

Also, there's totally bestiality in it and it weirded me out, especially since Amazon makes a big deal out of blocking that poo poo so I did not expect that scene when it came. But I guess if it's Lev Grossman, it's okay? Blech.

Right now I'm reading through a collection of stories by Wallace Stegner, I've been disappointed with everything I've read of his since Angle of Repose but I still keep giving him another shot because Angle of Repose was so good. And I got a free trial copy of Beautiful Oblivion, which is fun and light and has nothing at all happening except NA drama, so if you want a good reference for how to do NA drama well, I'd recommend it.

neongrey
Feb 28, 2007

Plaguing your posts with incidental music.

moana posted:

Also, there's totally bestiality in it and it weirded me out, especially since Amazon makes a big deal out of blocking that poo poo so I did not expect that scene when it came.

You say that, but...

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the nuggets in front of me

Sundae posted:

So, what're people reading these days? Anything interesting or awesome?
One of my old classmates just became the first of us to get published, so I'm reading his book at the moment. Interestingly it's trad published but he ended up doing most of the work himself, so it's pretty much self published.

If it's OK with everyone I'll link it, otherwise it'd feel like I was just plugging it. It honestly is a good book and I'm genuinely reading it which is why I brought it up.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Wheeeeeee!



moana posted:

Really? I loved the Magicians and the sequel to it, I thought it did a great job at hooking me even with a completely irredeemable main character. Quentin is perfectly flawed in the same way I was back when I was an overachieving high school kid, and I loved the meta-narrative he has running through his head with references to Narnia and Harry Potter whenever something "magical" happens to him. But I can see how people wouldn't like it, and I do wish there had been some more original fantasy elements. It was a dark, adult Harry Potter with a dick for a main character. He grows a lot over the course of the book, but never redeems himself, at least not in the two books in the series I read. I would think most NA fans would hate that sort of unfinished character arc. I loved it, because hey, some people are just dicks no matter what they go through.

The problem with giving it any 'original' fantasy elements is that the character was supposed to be kind of an overgrown man-baby/flawed teenage hero, and everything being vaguely Harry Potter / Narnia / Alice in Wonderland plays into him always clinging to childish fantasies and ignoring that even fantasy real worlds don't work that way.

The bitter, dark feel to it definitely worked; it took the fantasy thing and combined it with the real world HS / college mentality pretty well (for the most part), plus the post-college malaise when people start to realize that jack poo poo from college actually mattered and "okay, now what? I'm a loving wizard and it doesn't mean poo poo."

I think the problem I had with it was that I went in with a partial belief that it was going to be a Fantasy NA instead of a NA novel about fantasies, basically using a semi-fantasy world as a means of telling a real world story. Then on top of that, the character is (as you mentioned), a dick. Realistic? Yep! Not sure if it was a good decision, though. I have not read any of the sequels, so I can't speak for if it changes as it moves on.


quote:

Also, there's totally bestiality in it and it weirded me out, especially since Amazon makes a big deal out of blocking that poo poo so I did not expect that scene when it came. But I guess if it's Lev Grossman, it's okay? Blech.

Yeaaaah, that arctic fox thing was something special.

quote:

And I got a free trial copy of Beautiful Oblivion, which is fun and light and has nothing at all happening except NA drama, so if you want a good reference for how to do NA drama well, I'd recommend it.

I'll definitely see if I can grab a copy of that. Jamie McGuire has never been my cup of tea, but I can't fault her success. Also, I really did like Red Hill. Kind of a shame it never took off like her others did, and it's probably due to mixing incompatible genres. (On the other hand... sure didn't seem to stop Warm Bodies.)



quote:

This - this is what I'm talking about. When you consider the amount of work current publishers expect an author to do, regarding marketing, promoting, etc, what's the point of trad publishing?

VVVVVVVV If you ask me, the only point is if it's a format that doesn't work well in eBook. Children's books aren't there yet. Large format books, things heavily reliant on nifty tricks, etc. (House of Leaves, for example -- half the fun is the typesetting and page design.) Things like those really do lose something in the conversion to ebooks.

Sundae fucked around with this message at Jul 10, 2014 around 18:29

magnificent7
Sep 22, 2005

THUNDERDOME LOSER


Bobby Deluxe posted:

Interestingly it's trad published but he ended up doing most of the work himself, so it's pretty much self published.
This - this is what I'm talking about. When you consider the amount of work current publishers expect an author to do, regarding marketing, promoting, etc, what's the point of trad publishing?

By The Horns
Aug 6, 2012

When in doubt, always correct to "pounding"


I loved The Magicians for a number of reasons. The main one is that I think that as Harry Potter is to the British tradition of "boarding school" coming-of-age fiction, The Magicians is to the American tradition of doomed tragic angsty coming-of-age fiction as exemplified by SE Hinton... and I love me some SE Hinton.

I have just read "The Girl With All the Gifts" (can't remember the author but it was a Mike Carey writing under a very similar pseudonym) which was a flawed but pretty interesting take on the whole Zombie thing. It read like a movie, and apparently he was writing the screenplay at the same time. It's written in a really odd, constantly shifting third person present narration which took a while to get used to, but I ended up enjoying.

I am currently reading "Before I Go To Sleep" by S J Watson which is a Momento-esque thriller and a pretty impressive debut... although the dude hasn't published anything else and it's been over three years, so he's probably going to be writing columns in the Guardian about how little money authors make any day now (trad pub burn to keep things topical).

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the nuggets in front of me

magnificent7 posted:

This - this is what I'm talking about. When you consider the amount of work current publishers expect an author to do, regarding marketing, promoting, etc, what's the point of trad publishing?
Their excuse was that they're only a small publisher so they couldn't really do the book justice. I have a terrible memory so this might not be accurate, but I think he did the cover and the promotion himself.

They've been helpful in trying to introduce him to bigger agents and publishers, but it does seem like they've basically just printed and edited it and let him do the rest.

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web


Bobby Deluxe posted:

Their excuse was that they're only a small publisher so they couldn't really do the book justice. I have a terrible memory so this might not be accurate, but I think he did the cover and the promotion himself.

They've been helpful in trying to introduce him to bigger agents and publishers, but it does seem like they've basically just printed and edited it and let him do the rest.
God drat it that is such loving bullshit. I wonder what chunk of royalties they're taking for their lovely (non)service.

neongrey
Feb 28, 2007

Plaguing your posts with incidental music.

Bobby Deluxe posted:

Their excuse was that they're only a small publisher so they couldn't really do the book justice. I have a terrible memory so this might not be accurate, but I think he did the cover and the promotion himself.

They've been helpful in trying to introduce him to bigger agents and publishers, but it does seem like they've basically just printed and edited it and let him do the rest.

Yeah, while I generally feel differently about publishers that actually have distribution networks and whatnot, the more I look at small publishers the more I realize there's nothing they offer that I wouldn't get from self publishing.

That, I think, is the real tragedy of publishing in general these days. The big publishers are gonna get through this just fine-- there will be necessary changes in how they do things, but they're going to be fine. It's the little guys, small presses, the individually-owned ones that are going to collapse as they become entirely redundant.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Ghostwoods posted:

That's wildly unrealistic for a professional, Yooper. Check out the Editorial Freelancer's Association standard rates card.

I totally agree that charging standard rates is no guarantee of quality, but sadly the opposite holds true -- undercharging means that either the person has no idea what they're doing, or they're totally new (i.e. unproven) and desperately need some income. For a 100k novel, even a proof-read starts in at a minmum of ~$925. A cheap basic edit -- on a reasonably well-written book, in other words -- will be $1750+. Useful developmental editing will be significantly more.

Yah. And that's the rates my editor charges me. The two I hired (and fired) from EFA were both deadbeats. I've seen rates below the $350 for a basic line edit too.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010


magnificent7 posted:

This - this is what I'm talking about. When you consider the amount of work current publishers expect an author to do, regarding marketing, promoting, etc, what's the point of trad publishing?

I will say this for trad published authors: They probably never fret about not having sold any/enough copies in the first 8 hours of release because they simply don't get that data. Incidentally, I have just released my first work on a new pen name. How do you guys deal with post-release anxiety?

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Wheeeeeee!



ArchangeI posted:

I will say this for trad published authors: They probably never fret about not having sold any/enough copies in the first 8 hours of release because they simply don't get that data. Incidentally, I have just released my first work on a new pen name. How do you guys deal with post-release anxiety?

Try post-release celebratory beer.

You could also spend the next eight hours promoting the release to genre-appropriate facebook pages, mailing lists, bloggers who are willing to leave reviews on Amazon, Goodreads discussion groups, etc.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.




How do you guys handle backmatter? I know some self-pub platforms have different rules about it, but in general what should I aim to include? I don't want to clutter it up and look like I'm just shilling, but I also don't want to lose potential sales.

Links to your author page for each platform seems obvious, but what else? Do people put excerpts from other works? Links to blogs / facebook / twitter?


edit: ^ How to you go about advertising on genre-specific facebook pages? I always figured it would be considered bad form to show up on another author's page and advertise your own work. Or do you mean something more generic, like just a page for fans of fantasy novels or something?

Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at Jul 11, 2014 around 14:39

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Wheeeeeee!



Grizzled Patriarch posted:

How do you guys handle backmatter? I know some self-pub platforms have different rules about it, but in general what should I aim to include? I don't want to clutter it up and look like I'm just shilling, but I also don't want to lose potential sales.

Links to your author page for each platform seems obvious, but what else? Do people put excerpts from other works? Links to blogs / facebook / twitter?


edit: ^ How to you go about advertising on genre-specific facebook pages? I always figured it would be considered bad form to show up on another author's page and advertise your own work. Or do you mean something more generic, like just a page for fans of fantasy novels or something?


I'm still optimizing my backmatter because I sucked at it when I started (and all my early books have lovely backmatter as a result), but basically, here's the deal:

The first thing the reader sees when they're done with a book of mine is a link to sign up for my mailing list, which will give them a free copy of a different one of my books as a sign-up reward. This drives sign-ups wonderfully.

Next, a line telling them to turn the page for a sneak preview of [a related book that I think would match their interests].

When they flip the page, they get the cover image (if available), and then the first chapter of the related book.

At the end of the first chapter, another mailing list sign-up. Wording varies. (Want to be the first to know when this book's available? Sign up! Want to be the first to know about all Sundae's newest releases? Sign up!)

Next page is about the author, a link to my facebook page and blog, AuthorCentral, and (you guessed it) another mailing list link.

Next page is a list of all my books.


quote:

edit: ^ How to you go about advertising on genre-specific facebook pages? I always figured it would be considered bad form to show up on another author's page and advertise your own work. Or do you mean something more generic, like just a page for fans of fantasy novels or something?

There are a few ways you could go with this, but spamming pages is the one thing you probably shouldn't do.

Option 1: Go look at the active fans on a facebook page for an author who shares your fanbase. Not just same genre, but someone whose fans would like your book. Send messages to active people posting on the page, act like a human, talk about how you write in the same genre as (whoever) and contacted them because you thought they'd be interested in your newest release, and link to the book and offer a free copy in exchange for a review. If they don't answer, don't bug.

Option 2: Genre-specific pages, message the page hosts and let them know, ask if they'd be willing to post a release message for your new book, and also offer a free ARC to the page owner. EBooks are cheap/free, so it can't hurt.

Option 1 tends to get you reviews, quality TBD depending on the reader and how good your book is. Option 2 tends to get you a posted message on the page (efficacy undetermined thanks to the algo changes on Facebook for visibility), and maybe you get a nice review out of the deal.

And then when you get enough reviews, to the bookbubmobile!

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.




That is super helpful, thanks! I'm literally just starting out, so should I still be worrying about a mailing list, or is that something to bother with when I actually have a few works published?

Also, how do you offer free stories? I was under the impression that only Smashwords had free codes, and that a lot of people never use that site for whatever reason.

psychopomp
Jan 27, 2011


Start your mailing list now.

I don't give away free books, because I want a very tight list - just people who want to buy my books. It's not a better way of doing it, just different. I end up with a 50% open rate as a result, but my overall numbers aren't super high.

triplexpac
Mar 24, 2007

Suck it
Two tears in a bucket
And then another thing
I'm not the one they'll try their luck with
Hit hard like brass knuckles
See your face through the turnbuckle dude
I got no love for you


Hi! I came across this thread and thought I'd offer my services as a cover designer.

I haven't done any book covers exactly, but I have 8 years of experience in magazine design + 5 years of DVD covers, so I am confident in my skills.

I am also a photographer, if you wanted something really custom done.

Check out my work at https://www.kyleschruder.com

If this isn't allowed in the thread I apologize! Feel free to PM me with any questions though, that would be the fastest way to get a hold of me.

Desmond
Jul 24, 2002

I'll see ya in another life, brother

I just wanted to point out a writing group on Google+ if anyone's into: nature writing, environmental themes (sci-fi, speculative, literary, prose, climate fiction, etc.) at https://plus.google.com/u/0/communi...61764552168724. I'm trying to help promote this community. It's pretty new but is growing. Please read the FAQs there. Book promotion is allowed as long as the books are relevant to the discussed genres and the poster sticks around to participate. They are also holding a short story contest with the pot of $100.00, so there's your chance, nature writing goons (is that a thing?).

This is not really related to Goonreads, but I've let them know too. Goonreads.com (in the OP) is also a good place to post your books as well, and all genres are allowed.

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


Hey, if anyone here has had pretty disappointing sales results with a romance novel and would like me to take a look at it, send me a PM with your Amazon link. Full disclosure, I'm looking for books to republish under my company but even if that's unacceptable to you, I should be able to provide you with some tips for your next work.

Jalumibnkrayal
Apr 16, 2008



Lipstick Apathy

EngineerSean posted:

I should be able to provide you with some tips for your next work.

He's not joking. He spent a good amount of time with me fixing some stuff unrelated to this, so don't pass up this opportunity.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Wheeeeeee!



Yeah, EngineerSean is a major class act and is well worth your time to work with. I can definitely vouch for him on that.

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EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


aw shucks guys

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