Self-Publishing Goons: Yep, people buy it!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > Self-Publishing Goons: Yep, people buy it!

thehandtruck: Mar 5, 2006; the thing about the jews is,

Beezus posted:

Maaaybe double check? If you're using Scrivener's recommend novel project format and not doing any other fancy formatting in the project, the default layout assignments in the compile menu should just work. All folders should be assigned the Chapter Heading layout type, and your text within those folders should get the Scene layout assignment.

So strange, I tried it with "Modern" and it worked, but not the fonts lol. I must have some screwy settings somewhere.

# ? Apr 25, 2023 01:11

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 21:07

Spokes: Jan 9, 2010; Thanks for a MONSTER of an avatar, Awful Survivor Mods!

KrunkMcGrunk posted:

So I don't know how many people here are in the 20books group on Facebook, but its Overlord, Michael Anderle, recently announced his plans to publish 10,000 books in a year, using AI. Sharing of that plan with the general public went over about as well as one would expect, and to be fair, it is a bonkers idea that has some pretty awful implications. Granted, it's not 10,000 original(?) works, but like 2,000-3,000 originals a day, plus translations, so, you know, just 5-10 new books released every day. No biggie.

My thoughts:

1. Anderle has done so much for self-pub (imo) that he�s earned the right to make some mistakes.
2. This is immediately using up all that slack he�s earned and probably more. What a stupid loving idea from someone that should know better.

And to think I looked at the goons (and others) shipping 14-page erotica shitpiles before the KDP select rework with disdain; I should have saved it all for this

# ? Apr 25, 2023 15:39

KrunkMcGrunk: Jul 2, 2007; Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

Ehhh, I'm not so sure of the things Anderle has "done for publishing," I've been a member of 20books FB group since at least 2017, and all the stuff I see there seems to be centered on the Martelle/Anderle cult of personality, and the way they scoop up co-authors feels exploitative from the outside. For a long time, that group has felt like a virtual Mary Kay seminar.

But, to poke holes in my own post, Anderle hasn't actually done what he said he wanted to do yet, and I'm guessing, even with AI assistance, publishing 8 or 10 books a day is still near impossible.

KrunkMcGrunk fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Apr 26, 2023

# ? Apr 26, 2023 21:19

Leng: May 13, 2006; One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind

No other road
No other way
No day but today

IngramSpark just did a real sneaky thing. Here's my summary:
https://twitter.com/DeborahLau/status/1651687659721609217?t=M_NPYtqUeZl2vKXLm0dDUg&s=19
https://twitter.com/DeborahLau/status/1651693942533156864?t=Q3peiFrDS-e3DHCxel0LEg&s=19

Or if you want the full video rant explainer, that's here:
https://youtu.be/rjnVygTyxIM

# ? Apr 28, 2023 16:16

KrunkMcGrunk: Jul 2, 2007; Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

I'm about to find out what happens when you put new covers on an old series. I've heard it can revitalize sales, and maybe it's true--certainly I've got a little more dough to spend on attractive covers than I did seven years ago, and it never hurts to have a better cover. In case it doesn't, I'm planning on launching a three book box set, which will probably be treated better by the Amazon algo than a series published years ago.

KrunkMcGrunk fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Apr 29, 2023

# ? Apr 29, 2023 01:27

newts: Oct 10, 2012

I�m curious to see your old vs new covers, if you don�t mind sharing.

# ? Apr 29, 2023 13:45

Captain Log: Oct 2, 2006; Captain Log posted:
"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"

God, reading about this AI stuff is both depressing and discouraging.

But, I'm going to keep writing everyday and just see what happens. :derptiel:

-----------------
Anyways, I've got a very general couple of questions to ask in an effort to help guide me a bit more intelligently -

I'm approaching the halfway point in turning a rough draft into a first draft. I hate the process, compared to writing fresh stuff. But it's coming along. I was expecting to slash a lot more from the first draft. But it's weighing in at 175k words, and so far I'm finding it to be decently paced. It has been read by one person, who is published, and they don't think it needs to be significantly chopped down. Hell, they told me they want more from the characters. However, I understand one person who knows me isn't exactly a neutral source of criticism.

Which has led me to believe I should turn it into two or three novels in a series.

- Easy Question Number One - At 175k words, I know a real editor will be able to shave it down by some amount. Regardless of the prospect, would a first time author do better with three 50k word novels in a series, or a two novels coming in closer to 70-80k words?

- Harder Question Number Two - Bear with me on this one, it's hard for me to state concisely. I've taken to heart the advice in this thread, especially about knowing your market. I call what I'm writing, "Lower Case H Horror." It's not meant to hold a scare every ten pages, with a lot more focus on characters while saving the monsters for bigger conflicts. It's closer in spirit to Stephen King than Clive Barker.

That said, my monsters are also not easily categorized. If I had to put their description in a sentence, it would be, "Corpses of men ranging from a week to multiple centuries old, warped into shambling tree monsters that protect the balance of nature." But I've been told they fall closer to the category of "cryptids", which I thought applied to Bigfoot and Sea Monsters.

When your work doesn't easily slot into one category, what do you find to be the best practice? Pick one, and make it fit with a sledgehammer? Or just get a finished product, then worry about genre?

# ? May 2, 2023 13:31

Dream Weaver: Jan 23, 2007; Sweat Baby, sweat baby

Captain Log posted:

God, reading about this AI stuff is both depressing and discouraging.

But, I'm going to keep writing everyday and just see what happens.
-----------------
Anyways, I've got a very general couple of questions to ask in an effort to help guide me a bit more intelligently -

I'm approaching the halfway point in turning a rough draft into a first draft. I hate the process, compared to writing fresh stuff. But it's coming along. I was expecting to slash a lot more from the first draft. But it's weighing in at 175k words, and so far I'm finding it to be decently paced. It has been read by one person, who is published, and they don't think it needs to be significantly chopped down. Hell, they told me they want more from the characters. However, I understand one person who knows me isn't exactly a neutral source of criticism.

Which has led me to believe I should turn it into two or three novels in a series.

- Easy Question Number One - At 175k words, I know a real editor will be able to shave it down by some amount. Regardless of the prospect, would a first time author do better with three 50k word novels in a series, or a two novels coming in closer to 70-80k words?

- Harder Question Number Two - Bear with me on this one, it's hard for me to state concisely. I've taken to heart the advice in this thread, especially about knowing your market. I call what I'm writing, "Lower Case H Horror." It's not meant to hold a scare every ten pages, with a lot more focus on characters while saving the monsters for bigger conflicts. It's closer in spirit to Stephen King than Clive Barker.

That said, my monsters are also not easily categorized. If I had to put their description in a sentence, it would be, "Corpses of men ranging from a week to multiple centuries old, warped into shambling tree monsters that protect the balance of nature." But I've been told they fall closer to the category of "cryptids", which I thought applied to Bigfoot and Sea Monsters.

When your work doesn't easily slot into one category, what do you find to be the best practice? Pick one, and make it fit with a sledgehammer? Or just get a finished product, then worry about genre?

Q1- I generally would stick with the genre conventions. If the genre allows novels of that length then do it, especially if there are clear end and beginning points.
However a series is always best. 2-3 books works more for an author. I just read I.S. Belles horror book "Baby love" which was short but sweet and it lead into a separate book which was like 3-4 times as long

Q2- sounds like cryptids. Best to find a similar author in the same vein. Who is a contemporary author who you write like? How long are their books? Amazon has hundreds of subgenres that you can use to refine what you're making.

# ? May 2, 2023 20:15

KrunkMcGrunk: Jul 2, 2007; Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

Captain Log posted:

- Easy Question Number One - At 175k words, I know a real editor will be able to shave it down by some amount. Regardless of the prospect, would a first time author do better with three 50k word novels in a series, or a two novels coming in closer to 70-80k words?

Financially speaking, you're far better off having three books to sell. This allows you to make your first book a loss leader, which makes it an easier sell for marketing purposes and it will do a better job of enticing readers who may be on the fence about picking up a book by an unproven author. If they love your first book, they're in for buying books 2 & 3 at a higher price. I'm not sure how much research you've done into marketing, but you'll see people refer to this as "sell-through," and it's the driving principle behind book series.

Having a 175k manuscript can work out to your advantage. If you can divide it up into 3 satisfying books with a beginning, middle, and end (avoid cliffhangers!) you'll be in a great position when you go to release. I'd suggest finishing them all off, then launching the first book with a pre-order to the second book already in place, then launch that second book a month or two after the first. When book two launches, have a pre-order for book three in place, and a release date for the same amount of time as you had between books 1 and 2.

I have seen many authors use this method of pre-writing books and launching them close together with pre-orders to great success. So much so that I'm planning on doing it with the series I'm currently working on, which is a big change compared to how I've launched my books in the past.

quote:

Harder Question Number Two - Bear with me on this one, it's hard for me to state concisely. I've taken to heart the advice in this thread, especially about knowing your market. I call what I'm writing, "Lower Case H Horror." It's not meant to hold a scare every ten pages, with a lot more focus on characters while saving the monsters for bigger conflicts. It's closer in spirit to Stephen King than Clive Barker.

That said, my monsters are also not easily categorized. If I had to put their description in a sentence, it would be, "Corpses of men ranging from a week to multiple centuries old, warped into shambling tree monsters that protect the balance of nature." But I've been told they fall closer to the category of "cryptids", which I thought applied to Bigfoot and Sea Monsters.

When your work doesn't easily slot into one category, what do you find to be the best practice? Pick one, and make it fit with a sledgehammer? Or just get a finished product, then worry about genre?

I've learned the hard way that if I want to write a book that sells, I have to build that book from the hook out. That is, I have to come with an interesting, marketable premise then create everything which would make that premise work. In your case, it may not be a bad thing to have a unique monster as part of the book, because you want to be memorable, but you may also want to include something that has cultural short-hand (vampire, werewolf, zombie, etc) because people know what those things are, and if they like those things and your book has them, your audience will buy your book.

KrunkMcGrunk fucked around with this message at 16:25 on May 4, 2023

# ? May 4, 2023 16:19

Captain Log: Oct 2, 2006; Captain Log posted:
"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"

Thank you both for the excellent insight into how I should proceed.

I'm 110% focusing on just getting through the drat thing, having never done the rough to first draft thing in the five novels I've written in the past three-ish years. It's certainly a completely different skillset. But it's also revealing that I'd be a complete rear end in a top hat to expect anyone to read the rough draft who isn't outright asking to do so. I cannot believe some of the simple mistakes, while be largely happy I've only run into one or two minor plot holes I created. The story is sound, but it needs a coat of paint.

Truth be told, I'm less concerned with initial financial success than I am with making something that gets some readers. I'd be absolutely fine if these just paid for themselves, if it helped create an audience for my writing. However, I'd be lying to say I've considered the marketing angles.

One question - Why no cliffhangers? I'm thirty-eight, and always loved cliffhangers growing up. But I always read about people younger than me being pissed at any cliffhangers in television.

# ? May 5, 2023 12:29

newts: Oct 10, 2012

Captain Log posted:

One question - Why no cliffhangers? I'm thirty-eight, and always loved cliffhangers growing up. But I always read about people younger than me being pissed at any cliffhangers in television.

I think there�s a big difference between leaving part of the story unresolved in a way that promises there�s more to come, and leaving readers with an unsatisfying cliffhanger, where the story just�ends. I always resented the latter as a reader.

# ? May 5, 2023 14:07

KrunkMcGrunk: Jul 2, 2007; Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

Captain Log posted:

Thank you both for the excellent insight into how I should proceed.

I'm 110% focusing on just getting through the drat thing, having never done the rough to first draft thing in the five novels I've written in the past three-ish years. It's certainly a completely different skillset. But it's also revealing that I'd be a complete rear end in a top hat to expect anyone to read the rough draft who isn't outright asking to do so. I cannot believe some of the simple mistakes, while be largely happy I've only run into one or two minor plot holes I created. The story is sound, but it needs a coat of paint.

Truth be told, I'm less concerned with initial financial success than I am with making something that gets some readers. I'd be absolutely fine if these just paid for themselves, if it helped create an audience for my writing. However, I'd be lying to say I've considered the marketing angles.

Financial success and finding readers are one in the same--one will follow the other. Also, there's no shame in going after financial success. Why sell your book in an online store front, otherwise?

quote:

One question - Why no cliffhangers? I'm thirty-eight, and always loved cliffhangers growing up. But I always read about people younger than me being pissed at any cliffhangers in television.

Cliffhangers are fine when used wisely. My personal opinion is if I am introducing myself to a new audience, I should strive to give a complete story in the first book so people don't feel like I've cheated them out of an ending in order to get them to buy the next book. I wouldn't want to make a bad first impression!

# ? May 5, 2023 15:35

Fuschia tude: Dec 26, 2004; THUNDERDOME LOSER 2019

You can hint at more to come without leaving major plot points unresolved.

Take the original Star Wars movie: at the end, the Empire are still the big baddies, Vader is still out there, and what happened to Luke's father is still unknown. But the main threat to the rebels that they've spent the whole movie fighting is destroyed and the main characters get recognized in a nice big award ceremony to close it out.

# ? May 7, 2023 01:36

CaptainCrunch: Mar 19, 2006; droppin Hamiltons!

Leng posted:

I'm really happy with Damonza. Damon's put together a great team (I don't think he personally works on most of the covers anymore) and they're super quick in turning things around. The add-on prices for different formats of the cover (paperback, hardcover, foiling, audiobook, etc) are all in the range of $50-150 extra per so a no brainer.

Currently debating on whether or not I should also commission the cover for book 2 now and stick it in the back of book 1 for sales. I technically don't need it but I'm sure it would boost sell-through if I set up a long pre-order or at the very least mailing list sign-ups or something.

(I'm scared to set up a long preorder though because what if I have issues finishing book 2 and am super late with its launch? I don't want to lose goodwill)

A literal year later follow-up, but this review was immensely helpful. I did end up going to Damonza for my cover and am utterly thrilled with it. So, thank you for posting your review.

The cover:

# ? May 9, 2023 19:01

Leng: May 13, 2006; One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind

No other road
No other way
No day but today

CaptainCrunch posted:

A literal year later follow-up, but this review was immensely helpful. I did end up going to Damonza for my cover and am utterly thrilled with it. So, thank you for posting your review.

The cover:

That is a most excellent cover! It really nails the vibe of your blurb and genre.

# ? May 10, 2023 05:35

anime was right: Jun 27, 2008; Can't post for 8 minutes!

CaptainCrunch posted:

A literal year later follow-up, but this review was immensely helpful. I did end up going to Damonza for my cover and am utterly thrilled with it. So, thank you for posting your review.

The cover:

i mostly lurk here but drat thats a cool cover

# ? May 10, 2023 05:47

Captain Log: Oct 2, 2006; Captain Log posted:
"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"

CaptainCrunch posted:

A literal year later follow-up, but this review was immensely helpful. I did end up going to Damonza for my cover and am utterly thrilled with it. So, thank you for posting your review.

The cover:

Really digging that cover!

# ? May 10, 2023 13:03

KrunkMcGrunk: Jul 2, 2007; Sometimes I sit and think, and sometimes I just sit.

Damonza is great - I don't think I've ever not liked a cover they've done

# ? May 10, 2023 13:45

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

Allin is a bit of a weird name, but I like the boldness of just using your MC's name as the book title.

# ? May 10, 2023 14:00

CaptainCrunch: Mar 19, 2006; droppin Hamiltons!

Leng posted:

That is a most excellent cover! It really nails the vibe of your blurb and genre.

anime was right posted:

i mostly lurk here but drat thats a cool cover

I couldn't be happier with it. When they sent the first set of proofs over, I was nearly frozen with... an overwhelming amount of joy. Which is not an emotion I have a ton of experience processing. They just nailed everything I wanted in a cover. And they were incredibly responsive to my notes.
Also, you remembered my blurb! Wow!

Krunk: their gallery of past works is pretty impressive. Some A-Listers in there.

Megazver posted:

Allin is a bit of a weird name, but I like the boldness of just using your MC's name as the book title.

# ? May 10, 2023 16:22

newts: Oct 10, 2012

I like how they incorporated fangs in the typography.

# ? May 10, 2023 21:13

Strotski: Dec 29, 2013

Hey folks,
My wife has been writing various things for more than 2 years now, yet to publish but rapidly approaching that point. She has a few books prepared, so she can publish them one after another.

I want to run a blurb and title for the first one of those by the thread, cause we're pretty worried and inexperienced.

blurb posted:

Tracy
My first case as the new head of the labor union? Yes, probably among the toughest ones so far. But I�m not backing down even after the Union�s demands are straight out rejected by the future CEO of the billion-dollar hotel chain itself.
As if that will stop me from fighting for the people they are trying to screw over.
Watch me.
When an opportunity to attend the fancy CEO succession event Devon Corp is organizing presents itself to me, I grab it with both hands. My plan is simple � go there and get hold of the kind of information I can use to pressure the corporation into agreeing to my demands. A little dirt in play can�t hurt anyone, can it? Except it�s not exactly easy to come across it. And that rear end in a top hat of a future CEO who�s my current number one enemy? It turns out he�s hot as sin, a little dorky, totally my type and seems to be willing to listen to what I have to say.
So, uh, I may or may not have agreed to have a business lunch with him.
Gareth
Inheriting my dad�s hotel empire has been set in stone for me from the moment I was born. It doesn�t mean I�m going to be one of those incompetent rich men who ride on the success of his parents, though.
Devon Corp has been my entire life since I was a kid, but now that I�m about to take over, I�ve made it my goal to really understand how the company operates at every level.
Which is why I�m meeting with the union representative so I can personally present to them the commission�s rejection. The legendary man I�ve prepared myself to face, however, is not who I�m up against as I find myself trying to hold my ground against his formidable daughter. I couldn�t quite wing it, but it�s not like I�ll have to deal with her again.
Until I do, at the event where my dad is to officially announce he�s passing down his business to me. Only, I�m not ready for the snarky, fiery woman I had no idea hid beneath the professional fa�ade. Or the reactions she elicits within me.
Oh, and did I mention I impulsively invited her �technically my enemy � out for a �business� lunch?

This is a steamy 65000-word soft enemies-to-lovers romance novel, with a dorky bad boy billionaire who likes to get what he wants and the stubborn Union Head who�ll give him a run for his money.

TITLE : Negotiation tactics (West Coast Billionaires) OR The union rep's 'bad boy' billionaire (Negotiating for Love) OR Miss Union vs Hotel Heir (West Coast Billionaires)

Part of billionaires series of standalone

This is supposed to be a romantic lighthearted read. Any feedback is appreciated here.

# ? May 16, 2023 13:26

Leng: May 13, 2006; One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind

No other road
No other way
No day but today

Strotski posted:

Hey folks,
My wife has been writing various things for more than 2 years now, yet to publish but rapidly approaching that point. She has a few books prepared, so she can publish them one after another.

I want to run a blurb and title for the first one of those by the thread, cause we're pretty worried and inexperienced.

TITLE : Negotiation tactics (West Coast Billionaires) OR The union rep's 'bad boy' billionaire (Negotiating for Love) OR Miss Union vs Hotel Heir (West Coast Billionaires)

Part of billionaires series of standalone

This is supposed to be a romantic lighthearted read. Any feedback is appreciated here.

Not a romance author, just I hang out with authors who do write in that genre.

Imo the blurb is too long but it is great that it's clear on the tropes. Dual POV is standard for romance from what I understand but typically the blurb I usually see is from one of the characters only (if F/M then usually the female MC).

Pick up the Universal Fantasy book which is a blurb primer geared to romance authors:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FGZQV4D

It wasn't very translatable to fantasy for me (I can't wrap my head around the core concept at all, maybe because fantasy is different) but I've heard very good things about it from authors writing in romance.

# ? May 16, 2023 13:43

Strotski: Dec 29, 2013

Leng posted:

Not a romance author, just I hang out with authors who do write in that genre.

Imo the blurb is too long but it is great that it's clear on the tropes. Dual POV is standard for romance from what I understand but typically the blurb I usually see is from one of the characters only (if F/M then usually the female MC).

Pick up the Universal Fantasy book which is a blurb primer geared to romance authors:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09FGZQV4D

It wasn't very translatable to fantasy for me (I can't wrap my head around the core concept at all, maybe because fantasy is different) but I've heard very good things about it from authors writing in romance.

That books seems useful and exactly what we needed, thanks!
Will change PoV to one person and shorten it as well.

# ? May 16, 2023 14:51

Icon-Cat: Aug 18, 2005; Meow!

Here's my attempt at cutting down the romance hotel blurb. I don't think you need to talk about how this is happening at the succession event, just focus on the people. I don't know enough about romance to comment on if a two-person blurb for a two-POV book is odd (it wouldn't bother me but what do I know) or what's a good title for that market. This is what I got. :p
��
Tracy
My first case as the new head of the labor union? No problem. I�m not backing down. Not even from the future CEO of the billion-dollar hotel chain who�s screwing my people over.
But then again, he�s hot as sin, a little dorky, totally my type and seems to be willing to listen to what I have to say.
So, uh, I may or may not have agreed to have a business lunch with him.

Gareth
My dad�s hotel empire has been meant for me from the moment I was born. But that doesn�t mean I�m one of those incompetent rich men who rides his parents� coattails. As I take over I want to understand how the company operates at every level.
Which is why I�m meeting with the union representative to personally reject their demands. But I was expecting an old union man, not his formidable daughter.
She�s snarky and fiery beneath her professional fa�ade� and I may have impulsively invited her out for a �business� lunch�
��

Well folks, I've done another one of my oddball short stories. It's about dealing with death when you haven't actually lived much life yet. It's FREE for Kindle through Sunday May 21, so, have at it!

Mercy wasn�t supposed to die at sixteen, but she did, and it sucks.

The preceding statement represents about as far as Diane has gone in processing the pain. Her not-quite-a-relationship with Mercy never moved beyond idiotic adolescent jokes, which makes sifting her memories for meaning seem, well, meaningless. This also sucks.

Bewildered and numb, Diane doesn�t know how to say goodbye�or say anything, really. Then an unexpected encounter helps her fit Mercy�s death into her life.

Award-winning writer and filmmaker Adam Bertocci has been praised by Entertainment Weekly, USA Today, The New Republic, GQ, The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, Back Stage, Broadway World, E!, Maxim, IGN, Wired, Film Threat and more. In this strange, sad, sometimes silly short story, he tackles grief, loss and the truly stupid things that make us human in the fumbling narration of a young woman finding her voice.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0C54L42BZ/

Icon-Cat fucked around with this message at 18:14 on May 17, 2023

# ? May 17, 2023 16:54

Leng: May 13, 2006; One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind

No other road
No other way
No day but today

SPFBO is getting more and more competitive:

https://twitter.com/Mark__Lawrence/status/1658805626426777603?t=V-Zmk4jZDoA0pFZp3MOf8Q&s=19

I would have been one of those but took a few extra minutes to triple check my entry.

Glad I jumped on as soon as the clock ticked over though, if I had been just a little slower off the mark...

https://twitter.com/Mark__Lawrence/status/1658815820904931328?t=3M0VHYqQPtc9zXVncOIDOQ&s=19

# ? May 18, 2023 06:28

Strotski: Dec 29, 2013

Icon-Cat posted:

Here's my attempt at cutting down the romance hotel blurb. I don't think you need to talk about how this is happening at the succession event, just focus on the people. I don't know enough about romance to comment on if a two-person blurb for a two-POV book is odd (it wouldn't bother me but what do I know) or what's a good title for that market. This is what I got. :p
———
Tracy
My first case as the new head of the labor union? No problem. I’m not backing down. Not even from the future CEO of the billion-dollar hotel chain who’s screwing my people over.
But then again, he’s hot as sin, a little dorky, totally my type and seems to be willing to listen to what I have to say.
So, uh, I may or may not have agreed to have a business lunch with him.

Gareth
My dad’s hotel empire has been meant for me from the moment I was born. But that doesn’t mean I’m one of those incompetent rich men who rides his parents’ coattails. As I take over I want to understand how the company operates at every level.
Which is why I’m meeting with the union representative to personally reject their demands. But I was expecting an old union man, not his formidable daughter.
She’s snarky and fiery beneath her professional façade… and I may have impulsively invited her out for a ‘business’ lunch…
———

Well folks, I've done another one of my oddball short stories. It's about dealing with death when you haven't actually lived much life yet. It's FREE for Kindle through Sunday May 21, so, have at it!

Mercy wasn’t supposed to die at sixteen, but she did, and it sucks.

The preceding statement represents about as far as Diane has gone in processing the pain. Her not-quite-a-relationship with Mercy never moved beyond idiotic adolescent jokes, which makes sifting her memories for meaning seem, well, meaningless. This also sucks.

Bewildered and numb, Diane doesn’t know how to say goodbye—or say anything, really. Then an unexpected encounter helps her fit Mercy’s death into her life.

Award-winning writer and filmmaker Adam Bertocci has been praised by Entertainment Weekly, USA Today, The New Republic, GQ, The Wall Street Journal, The Guardian, Back Stage, Broadway World, E!, Maxim, IGN, Wired, Film Threat and more. In this strange, sad, sometimes silly short story, he tackles grief, loss and the truly stupid things that make us human in the fumbling narration of a young woman finding her voice.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0C54L42BZ/

Thanks for the rewrite, will have to choose between one and two PoVs for the blurb still.

I really like your cover, would pick the book up based just on it!

# ? May 20, 2023 19:06

Leng: May 13, 2006; One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind

No other road
No other way
No day but today

Self-published fantasy blog-off has cover art controversy this year. I've been caught up in this over the weekend given my YouTube channel AND that I'm an entrant in this year's contest. Full tweet thread summarizing all the things:

https://twitter.com/DeborahLau/status/1662636248480251905
https://twitter.com/DeborahLau/status/1662636625967579136

The TL;DR if you don't want to click through and read the whole Twitter thread:

An author hired an artist and believed that no AI was used in the creation of their book cover. Entered the book in SPFBO9 and ticked "No" box in response to the entry form that asks authors whether or not AI was used in their cover.
The SPFBO cover contest specifically disqualifies covers with any AI components from entering. It's unclear at this point whether there were any formal processes established beforehand as to how this was going to be vetted.
Nothing in particular was widely noted about the cover (which was an early favorite with both blog judges and public votes) until it won the #SPFBO9 cover contest.
Artists on Twitter put forward arguments the cover included AI generated art. Most of them very politely, imo.
Cover designer & author both deny the allegations. Mark Lawrence responded with a tweet to the effect of "the entry form required people to self-declare use of AI in the cover"
Artists understandably not satisfied with this and produced more detailed arguments for why they believe the cover contains AI generated elements.
Mark Lawrence requested additional proof from both author and cover artist that the cover did not contain AI generated elements. It takes a while.
Meanwhile, there's Twitterstorm escalation on both sides. Another author (a fairly high profile one) came forward in strong support of the first author and defended the cover designer under fire, disclosed that he hired the same cover designer to do 2 covers for him, one which is pending a cover reveal on 5 July.
Mark Lawrence received and publicly released a layered .PSD file of the cover art. (The accompanying tweet and the blog post containing said evidence was, imo, worded quite poorly. It had a rather put upon tone that came across as dismissive of the numerous, specific arguments artists had put forward.) Authors without any graphic design or art experience conclude the evidence is compelling proof of innocence. Artists (including authors who are also artists) maintained the cover contains AI art and are frustrated that authors (who are not artists) are not giving the evidence they are presenting due consideration. Authors (who are not artists) and bloggers started throwing the term "witch hunt" around. Further escalation on both sides ensued.
While the Twitter ragestorm continued, said .PSD file and accompanying evidence was torn apart by artists on Twitter. The smoking gun: multiple layers within the .PSD file definitively proved AI elements were used because the cover designer forgot to change the file names on multiple Midjourney assets used in the cover. (Midjourney procedurally generates the file names which contain the username and prompt for said assets.) Another Twitter user provided a full audit trail of all the Midjourney assets used by tracking down the Midjourney user account and finding the generated images in the user's Midjourney gallery. Yet another Twitter user demonstrated how the "in process" sketches etc were faked. Multiple other artists provided detailed threads breaking down what valid "in process" evidence looks like.
Mark Lawrence formally announced the cover as disqualified and also that there will be no further cover contests going forward.
First author went from standing by the cover designer to realizing they were scammed then to confronting the designer.
The designer disappeared themselves from all social media and went silent.
Second author who went to bat for both the first author and the designer woke up to the evidence and ran their covers through the same AI detectors. The design brief included "no AI". They panicked at the result, decided to pull the cover, raised enough funds via a GoFundMe in a few hours to get a new one.
The self-published science fiction contest organizers announced they will likely also cancel their cover design contest going forward.

The cover in question:

https://twitter.com/prindle_matthew/status/1624230169580904449

Sad and inevitable result all round. AI controversy aside, the cover is actually doing a good job for a cover. The book was getting loads of buzz just based on the cover and it was moving copies.

Mark Lawrence made the right call in the end. But as far as I can tell, the whole plan from the get go was "rely on people to be acting in good faith" without any contingency process for bad actors or how people should report concerns or how those reports should be considered and investigated and how comms should go. When things went wrong (because AI and also humans), he responded to developments on the back foot, didn't think to consult someone with relevant expertise on the evidence before publicly releasing it, and didn't think through the consequences of how he worded the comms accompanying the release of that evidence.

Fallout is still ongoing. Many authors have continued accusing artists (and those who were siding with them, including other authors) for dogpiling and being witch hunters etc etc etc. Quite a few are up in arms about "presumption of guilt instead of innocence" and they don't seem to realize that what artists were trying to tell them is that based on their expertise, they weren't just firing off baseless accusations; they were seeing like a hundred red flags setting off all their AI senses and guess what, it turns out not all opinions are created equal on that subject. Like I feel bad for the authors who got scammed and everybody who believed the cover to be wholly human created. AI art has gotten to the point where you can't tell as a layperson. (I personally thought there were multiple covers submitted as being eligible for the contest when they had AI generated elements but I didn't say anything about the ones I did suspect because I'm no expert so my hunches aren't that reliable. And this was not one of the covers I had suspected.)

The other other outcry is "but the designer was a lying scammer" and that camp seems to believe that declarations alone constitute sufficient controls/vendor due diligence and there was no way anybody could have known otherwise.

:ughh:

I'm this close to putting my ex-auditor hat on and making a video rant about why people need to trust but verify, why declarations/representations are the weakest form of evidence you can obtain and therefore are also the weakest form of control, and consequently why relying on representation as the sole control over the most significant reputational risk in your entire business goes well beyond a minor control weakness in a process to a significant control deficiency that when you consider it in the context of an assurance engagement over the design and operating effectiveness of controls, any auditor engaged to provide that assurance would have to conclude that the controls are ineffective because they are neither effectively designed nor are they operating effectively.

Leng fucked around with this message at 13:34 on May 29, 2023

# ? May 29, 2023 13:32

leper khan: Dec 28, 2010; Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Leng posted:

Self-published fantasy blog-off has cover art controversy this year. I've been caught up in this over the weekend given my YouTube channel AND that I'm an entrant in this year's contest. Full tweet thread summarizing all the things:

https://twitter.com/DeborahLau/status/1662636248480251905
https://twitter.com/DeborahLau/status/1662636625967579136

The TL;DR if you don't want to click through and read the whole Twitter thread:

An author hired an artist and believed that no AI was used in the creation of their book cover. Entered the book in SPFBO9 and ticked "No" box in response to the entry form that asks authors whether or not AI was used in their cover.

The SPFBO cover contest specifically disqualifies covers with any AI components from entering. It's unclear at this point whether there were any formal processes established beforehand as to how this was going to be vetted.

Nothing in particular was widely noted about the cover (which was an early favorite with both blog judges and public votes) until it won the #SPFBO9 cover contest.

Artists on Twitter put forward arguments the cover included AI generated art. Most of them very politely, imo.

Cover designer & author both deny the allegations. Mark Lawrence responded with a tweet to the effect of "the entry form required people to self-declare use of AI in the cover"

Artists understandably not satisfied with this and produced more detailed arguments for why they believe the cover contains AI generated elements.

Mark Lawrence requested additional proof from both author and cover artist that the cover did not contain AI generated elements. It takes a while.

Meanwhile, there's Twitterstorm escalation on both sides. Another author (a fairly high profile one) came forward in strong support of the first author and defended the cover designer under fire, disclosed that he hired the same cover designer to do 2 covers for him, one which is pending a cover reveal on 5 July.

Mark Lawrence received and publicly released a layered .PSD file of the cover art. (The accompanying tweet and the blog post containing said evidence was, imo, worded quite poorly. It had a rather put upon tone that came across as dismissive of the numerous, specific arguments artists had put forward.) Authors without any graphic design or art experience conclude the evidence is compelling proof of innocence. Artists (including authors who are also artists) maintained the cover contains AI art and are frustrated that authors (who are not artists) are not giving the evidence they are presenting due consideration. Authors (who are not artists) and bloggers started throwing the term "witch hunt" around. Further escalation on both sides ensued.

While the Twitter ragestorm continued, said .PSD file and accompanying evidence was torn apart by artists on Twitter. The smoking gun: multiple layers within the .PSD file definitively proved AI elements were used because the cover designer forgot to change the file names on multiple Midjourney assets used in the cover. (Midjourney procedurally generates the file names which contain the username and prompt for said assets.) Another Twitter user provided a full audit trail of all the Midjourney assets used by tracking down the Midjourney user account and finding the generated images in the user's Midjourney gallery. Yet another Twitter user demonstrated how the "in process" sketches etc were faked. Multiple other artists provided detailed threads breaking down what valid "in process" evidence looks like.

Mark Lawrence formally announced the cover as disqualified and also that there will be no further cover contests going forward.

First author went from standing by the cover designer to realizing they were scammed then to confronting the designer.

The designer disappeared themselves from all social media and went silent.

Second author who went to bat for both the first author and the designer woke up to the evidence and ran their covers through the same AI detectors. The design brief included "no AI". They panicked at the result, decided to pull the cover, raised enough funds via a GoFundMe in a few hours to get a new one.

The self-published science fiction contest organizers announced they will likely also cancel their cover design contest going forward.

The cover in question:

https://twitter.com/prindle_matthew/status/1624230169580904449

Sad and inevitable result all round. AI controversy aside, the cover is actually doing a good job for a cover. The book was getting loads of buzz just based on the cover and it was moving copies.

Mark Lawrence made the right call in the end. But as far as I can tell, the whole plan from the get go was "rely on people to be acting in good faith" without any contingency process for bad actors or how people should report concerns or how those reports should be considered and investigated and how comms should go. When things went wrong (because AI and also humans), he responded to developments on the back foot, didn't think to consult someone with relevant expertise on the evidence before publicly releasing it, and didn't think through the consequences of how he worded the comms accompanying the release of that evidence.

Fallout is still ongoing. Many authors have continued accusing artists (and those who were siding with them, including other authors) for dogpiling and being witch hunters etc etc etc. Quite a few are up in arms about "presumption of guilt instead of innocence" and they don't seem to realize that what artists were trying to tell them is that based on their expertise, they weren't just firing off baseless accusations; they were seeing like a hundred red flags setting off all their AI senses and guess what, it turns out not all opinions are created equal on that subject. Like I feel bad for the authors who got scammed and everybody who believed the cover to be wholly human created. AI art has gotten to the point where you can't tell as a layperson. (I personally thought there were multiple covers submitted as being eligible for the contest when they had AI generated elements but I didn't say anything about the ones I did suspect because I'm no expert so my hunches aren't that reliable. And this was not one of the covers I had suspected.)

The other other outcry is "but the designer was a lying scammer" and that camp seems to believe that declarations alone constitute sufficient controls/vendor due diligence and there was no way anybody could have known otherwise.

I'm this close to putting my ex-auditor hat on and making a video rant about why people need to trust but verify, why declarations/representations are the weakest form of evidence you can obtain and therefore are also the weakest form of control, and consequently why relying on representation as the sole control over the most significant reputational risk in your entire business goes well beyond a minor control weakness in a process to a significant control deficiency that when you consider it in the context of an assurance engagement over the design and operating effectiveness of controls, any auditor engaged to provide that assurance would have to conclude that the controls are ineffective because they are neither effectively designed nor are they operating effectively.

Do it if you want to bootstrap a YouTube channel talking about people screwing up like this. I'm sure there's a wide back catalog of potential content.

Also that's a good cover.

# ? May 29, 2023 14:34

Leng: May 13, 2006; One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind

No other road
No other way
No day but today

leper khan posted:

Do it if you want to bootstrap a YouTube channel talking about people screwing up like this. I'm sure there's a wide back catalog of potential content.

Also that's a good cover.

OK I have dithered and I am going to do a YouTube thing on it but I want it to be actually, you know, constructive instead of contributing further to the echo chambers. So I reached out to Damonza to see if he'd be willing to come on a livestream to answer AI book cover questions and he said yes.

If you missed it, Damonza came out with their generative AI policy earlier last weekend. You can read it here: https://damonza.com/generative-ai-image-policy/

Drop anything you want me to ask him here: https://app.sli.do/event/oztvc8qi4weLqNPQyJkDBM

# ? Jun 15, 2023 00:43

CaptainCrunch: Mar 19, 2006; droppin Hamiltons!

Leng posted:

OK I have dithered and I am going to do a YouTube thing on it but I want it to be actually, you know, constructive instead of contributing further to the echo chambers. So I reached out to Damonza to see if he'd be willing to come on a livestream to answer AI book cover questions and he said yes.

If you missed it, Damonza came out with their generative AI policy earlier last weekend. You can read it here: https://damonza.com/generative-ai-image-policy/

Drop anything you want me to ask him here: https://app.sli.do/event/oztvc8qi4weLqNPQyJkDBM

Thanks for doing this. Seeing that email was like picking up my half finished drink and seeing a cockroach floating in it.

It's probably a coincidence that all the people screaming "it's here to stay, can't put the toothpaste back in the tube!" are all people who stand to profit from it right this instant. :negative:

# ? Jun 15, 2023 17:04

divabot: Jun 17, 2015; A polite little mouse!

CaptainCrunch posted:

It's probably a coincidence that all the people screaming "it's here to stay, can't put the toothpaste back in the tube!" are all people who stand to profit from it right this instant.

this is the key insight - AI is fascinating technology, it does actual things, and in all practical terms it's a VC scam to make money by making stuff worse and dodging paying creators, now that cryptocurrency's run out of steam. if you have a jaundiced view of AI promoters, you are correct.

blog rant here

(also my wife is an artist and goes absolutely feral at this poo poo)

divabot fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Jun 16, 2023

# ? Jun 16, 2023 10:24

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Since I know most people stick to their bookmarks, I'm going to spam the busier threads with a link to the CC feedback thread

# ? Jun 17, 2023 12:50

SimonChris: Apr 24, 2008; The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.; Grimey Drawer

I am getting tired of spending years submitting stories to magazines that take three months to reply and then making, like, 20 bucks when they finally sell. Given the time I spend researching markets, etc., it will be hard to make less money per hour, so I would like to give self-publishing a chance.

I have enough stories for a collection, but I understand that it is also feasible to publish individual short stories as e-books. Should I go with the collection or would it be better to publish the individual stories gradually? Can you combine the options and have the same stories available both individually and as part of the collection? If so, is it possible to do a Steam Bundle kind of thing where people who own individual stories can complete the collection at a discount?

Also, several of these stories are available for free at various online markets. Can I still get away with selling them on Amazon, or will people get mad if they find out? Maybe I will add some commentary and call it a special edition...

# ? Jun 21, 2023 09:33

DropTheAnvil: May 16, 2021

SimonChris posted:

Also, several of these stories are available for free at various online markets. Can I still get away with selling them on Amazon, or will people get mad if they find out? Maybe I will add some commentary and call it a special edition...

When you sell a story you should sign a contract. The contract should say when you are allowed to reprint the story. If you can't find it in the contract, contact the magazine direct.

With you about frustration over magazines taking forever to get back to you. It's the same in the agented space. Kind of feels like the whole magazine/author market has dried up.

# ? Jun 21, 2023 16:24

SimonChris: Apr 24, 2008; The Baron's daughter is missing, and you are the man to find her. No problem. With your inexhaustible arsenal of hard-boiled similes, there is nothing you can't handle.; Grimey Drawer

DropTheAnvil posted:

When you sell a story you should sign a contract. The contract should say when you are allowed to reprint the story. If you can't find it in the contract, contact the magazine direct.

With you about frustration over magazines taking forever to get back to you. It's the same in the agented space. Kind of feels like the whole magazine/author market has dried up.

Sorry, I expressed myself badly. I mean will the readers get mad when they realize they paid for a story they could have read for free online? That is why I considered adding some extra material to the Amazon edition

# ? Jun 21, 2023 16:26

Blorknorg: Jul 19, 2003; Crush me like a Blorknorg!

DropTheAnvil posted:

When you sell a story you should sign a contract. The contract should say when you are allowed to reprint the story. If you can't find it in the contract, contact the magazine direct.

With you about frustration over magazines taking forever to get back to you. It's the same in the agented space. Kind of feels like the whole magazine/author market has dried up.

I've complained about this before in the thread but it really bears repeating that everyone, agents and publishers, just stopped even deigning to say 'no' anymore and somehow that's much more soul-exhausting than it was before. I have two books that are literally professionally finished novels that were briefly published, down to the edits and covers, it's just my publisher closed its doors in 2019 and gave everyone the rights and even having that hasn't got me any response from anywhere.

# ? Jun 21, 2023 16:29

DropTheAnvil: May 16, 2021

Blorknorg posted:

I've complained about this before in the thread but it really bears repeating that everyone, agents and publishers, just stopped even deigning to say 'no' anymore and somehow that's much more soul-exhausting than it was before. I have two books that are literally professionally finished novels that were briefly published, down to the edits and covers, it's just my publisher closed its doors in 2019 and gave everyone the rights and even having that hasn't got me any response from anywhere.

It's been hard to be positive in the querying trenches.

I've started creating a list of agents to be skeptical off. The new scam seems to be creating a literary agency of just your author friends and coming out as a new "agent" that just so happens to have their own book out.

Take this with a healthy does of bias.

DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Jun 21, 2023

# ? Jun 21, 2023 19:54

Dream Weaver: Jan 23, 2007; Sweat Baby, sweat baby

SimonChris posted:

I am getting tired of spending years submitting stories to magazines that take three months to reply and then making, like, 20 bucks when they finally sell. Given the time I spend researching markets, etc., it will be hard to make less money per hour, so I would like to give self-publishing a chance.

I have enough stories for a collection, but I understand that it is also feasible to publish individual short stories as e-books. Should I go with the collection or would it be better to publish the individual stories gradually? Can you combine the options and have the same stories available both individually and as part of the collection? If so, is it possible to do a Steam Bundle kind of thing where people who own individual stories can complete the collection at a discount?

Also, several of these stories are available for free at various online markets. Can I still get away with selling them on Amazon, or will people get mad if they find out? Maybe I will add some commentary and call it a special edition...

As someone who just read a 49 page self published book called "Moist Actually" you can always make them cost like 99 cents and put them on KU.

# ? Jun 21, 2023 23:17

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# ? Apr 24, 2024 21:07

Leng: May 13, 2006; One song / Glory
One song before I go / Glory
One song to leave behind

No other road
No other way
No day but today

SimonChris posted:

I have enough stories for a collection, but I understand that it is also feasible to publish individual short stories as e-books.

What's your genre? If fantasy, short story collections do sell, but the ones that sell best are anthologies with like 10-20 authors in them because you have 10-20 people all pushing the anthology. Lately the trend has been to organize special edition Kickstarters around them, push hard, then release normal editions (ebook and print) after. See: The Alchemy of Sorrow (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/virginiamcclain/the-alchemy-of-sorrow) which is the last big one.

SimonChris posted:

Should I go with the collection or would it be better to publish the individual stories gradually? Can you combine the options and have the same stories available both individually and as part of the collection? If so, is it possible to do a Steam Bundle kind of thing where people who own individual stories can complete the collection at a discount?

The answer to all of these is yes. See: Will Wight's The Traveler's Gate Chronicles which were originally released as standalone short stories for his mailing list (and you can still read some of them for free in the archives), then as 3 separate novella length mini-collections, then ultimately combined into one collection.

Your only constraint here is cover art and design, and if you don't mind using the same cover as authors who serialize via short ebook releases instead of using a serial platform (I did a YouTube video on that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3S74fm--Zg), you can release them in whatever combination you like.

Price the individual stories at $0.99, then collect a few into a novella-length thing at $1.99 or $2.99, then do all of them in a novel-length omnibus for $3.99 or whatever price point.

SimonChris posted:

Also, several of these stories are available for free at various online markets. Can I still get away with selling them on Amazon, or will people get mad if they find out? Maybe I will add some commentary and call it a special edition...

Adding commentary/extra material helps but you don't need to. Sanderson self-pubbed Defending Elysium, a novella which is available as a free read on his website, and sells it for $2.99. Hell, Warbreaker, a full length novel, is trad pubbed in all formats and he still has it up for free on his website.

The thing most likely to piss readers off is if you don't make it clear that the collections/omnibus editions are compiled versions of the individual standalone stories and they end up buying both the standalones AND the omnibus edition thinking they were going to get different content.

# ? Jun 22, 2023 05:31

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > Self-Publishing Goons: Yep, people buy it!

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