Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Geop
Oct 26, 2007





Killer is Dead (KiD) is the newest installment by Grasshopper Manufacture, Suda51ís shop. Although some folks say that Suda took a backset-role on the game, it still has a bit of his charm. Adding on to that, Akira Yamaoka of Silent Hill fame did the music, much like with Shadows of the Damned.

Why am I LPing it? Well, letís be upfront here: in spite of being a hacky-slashy type game, itís a far cry from your average Platinum title. Yamaoka did the music, sure, but nothing stands out track-wise. Its storyline is weird with random parts/ideas that don't go anywhere; thereís some sort of Killer 7 vibe, but itís just, well, off.

I really enjoyed playing this on my first playthrough and canít put my finger on one main reason why. It has the same sort of artsy approach used by Killer 7; namely, lots of shadows and darkness with bright colors crammed right in the middle of it all. Also, the overall flow of the story scratched an odd itch. Each episode is self-contained with an occasional reference to the major story-arc creeping in the back. There are also some little touches (be they bizarre or serious) that really gel nicely at times.

((Post-LP Edit: I DON'T KNOW WHY I DECIDED TO LP THIS. The luster and charm completely vanished on the second playthrough and oh god no))


Joining me for this venture is judge reinhold of the Men Drinkiní Coffee group. In spite of his warnings otherwise, Iím dragging along in to this weird tale, where he will serve as the blind co-commentator.

As a heads-up, this will NOT be a 100% LP. There are challenges/unlockables, but almost all of them either lead to a creepy costume for female characters or super-awkward sexy-time cutscenes. If you want to see Ďem, look them up on Youtube. Personally, I think theyíre tacked on and rob the game of its charm. There is also some weird mini-game (which really caused this game to get roasted by reviewers) to unlock sub-weapons. Iíll be editing most of that out.















Geop fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Sep 4, 2014

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Geop
Oct 26, 2007

Episode 01 -
HelloWinter beat about a dozen people to this pun!


Episode 04 -
legendsuper somehow brings up Jojo. Jojo is everywhere these days :(


Episode 05 -
Devious Vacuum knows the dream-date that Judge is *really* holding out for!


Suspicious Cook just had to do this. Call it a Tick or a habit.


Episode 07 -
DAVID IS ME? I'M DAVID? NO, DEVAC

Geop fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Sep 4, 2014

countzio
Jan 30, 2014

Not doing a 100% run is probably for the best since you have to do Gigolo Mode a bunch of times to get all of the achievements, if you are into that sort of thing. Plus you have to figure out what each secret objective the result screen shows means exactly.

Also, do you want me to scan stuff from the mini-artbook the console version had?

countzio fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jun 3, 2014

Zellyn
Sep 27, 2000

The way he truly is.
I wonder if there's a limit on how many games can get pumped out by Grasshopper before people start realising that Suda only works on a relatively small number of these games and the rest have, at best, a few touches by him.

ArclightBorealis
May 28, 2014

You are HUGE!
That means you have HUGE ESSENCE!

RIP AND TEAR YOUR ESSENCE!!
I've always been meaning to play this game at some point, but I've been continually holding it off for other things. Still, always loved the style and weird vibe of this game, even if it doesn't get as detailed and sophisticated as something like killer7. Best summary I can think of for this game is a bizarre version of Cowboy Bebop with assassins instead of space cowboy bounty hunting.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the LP.

Also, holy poo poo, how could I forget Bryan, the character who shares my first name. I just remembered how awesome he is.

ArclightBorealis fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jun 3, 2014

Geop
Oct 26, 2007

The Cowboy Bebop comparison was actually in the OP originally, but I removed it thinking I was in a weird mindset :staredog: Good to see I'm not alone in that!

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

I wish Mondo kept the glasses on during assassinations. Gives him a bit more character. What little his "stoic tough guy who never emotes" character amount to, anyway. C'mon, you've got Crispin Freeman, make him go nuts, Grasshopper!

bartok
May 10, 2006



I believe there are four Zappa children - Moon Unit, Dweezil, Ahmet, and Rodan Zappa.

ManlyGrunting
May 29, 2014
I have an odd fondness with this game, even if it feels like it lacks a certain something to make it truly great. I have some ideas about lot of what it was trying to do and where it came up short (mostly the Gigolo missions, which felt like an attempt to balance and round Mondo and to act in direct opposition to Japanese attitudes about dating and sex, but ultimately did not have enough substance to them, even if the point was that Mondo was just in it for the pleasure). It's nowhere near as complex or deep as Killer7 or even the No More Heroes games, but I think it tells some stuff that went unnoticed by some due to flawed direction and some deliberate obtuseness.

Mondo in particular is a much more interesting character than people give him credit for I think, but I can't even begin to hint as to why for a long time now. I will say that he was deliberately made to look like the sort of person who probably wouldn't be able to kill anyone, however.

ManlyGrunting fucked around with this message at 04:40 on Jun 3, 2014

Lance Streetman
Feb 20, 2011

A parfait is a dessert, but it is also the French word for perfect.
The impression that I always got from this game was that it was trying to emulate Killer7's weirdness, but just kinda went overboard on everything and ended up being a parody of itself. So whenever I see cutscenes from this, all I can think is "I'd rather be watching the Killer7 LP." Still, glad to finally see a full LP of this.

Ferrovanadium
Mar 22, 2013

APEX PREDATOR

-MOST AMMUNITION EXPENDED ON CIVILIANS 2015-PRESENT
-WORST KDR VS CIVILIANS 2015-PRESENT

Lance Streetman posted:

The impression that I always got from this game was that it was trying to emulate Killer7's weirdness, but just kinda went overboard on everything and ended up being a parody of itself. So whenever I see cutscenes from this, all I can think is "I'd rather be watching the Killer7 LP." Still, glad to finally see a full LP of this.

The "unintentional parody of itself" vibe is probably the first thing I noticed about Killer is Dead.

Cuntellectual
Aug 6, 2010
The Zero Punctuation review had a pretty good summary of the differences.

Killer7 had plot exposition by having the Power Rangers as a metaphor for American-Japanese relationships, Killer is Dead had plot exposition by a bunch of grumpy guys sitting in a dim room.


I really shouldn't have expected much but I just didn't like it. I played it once but the missed potential is just so overwhelming it hurts. What could've been great was just something with Suda's name slapped on it that was pretty thoroughly mediocre.

Maybe Lily Bergamo will be better. Who knows.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

Lance Streetman posted:

The impression that I always got from this game was that it was trying to emulate Killer7's weirdness, but just kinda went overboard on everything and ended up being a parody of itself. So whenever I see cutscenes from this, all I can think is "I'd rather be watching the Killer7 LP." Still, glad to finally see a full LP of this.

I was the same way. Killer7 was lightning in a bottle and this game's an imitation caught somewhere between "feeble" and "desperate." I liked the aesthetic, but there's no method to its madness.

slycooper20
Feb 14, 2014

I AM REVOLVER OSHAWOTT

Lance Streetman posted:

The impression that I always got from this game was that it was trying to emulate Killer7's weirdness, but just kinda went overboard on everything and ended up being a parody of itself. So whenever I see cutscenes from this, all I can think is "I'd rather be watching the Killer7 LP." Still, glad to finally see a full LP of this.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. I could not follow the story when I was playing through this. It was so drat confusing.

And also, Mika is so anime it makes me cringe every time I have to listen to her.

slycooper20 fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jun 3, 2014

countzio
Jan 30, 2014

You guys might have noticed that some of the things in each stage's ranking screen are weird. For example, the first stage had "Rescue payment" with Geop getting $0 for it.

One of the game's problems is not telling you what those kinds of things are exactly so I thought I might explain some of the listed ones so far.

Completion Bonus: Tied to your completion time. The longer you take in a stage, the smaller the payment.

Rescue Payment: Don't get hit by any of the bullets in the first stage.

Toughness Payment: Don't die.

Bug Payment: Don't get hit by any of the bugs.

Total Damage: If you get hit, the amount of money you get goes down. I don't know by how much but eventually, you will get nothing (probably when you die.) There's a variation of it called Gentleman's Payment where you have to never get hit.

Total Cool Kills Bonus: Kill dudes with headshots, Adrenaline Rush (the way you kill those golden enemies) and Burst Rush to get a bigger payment.

Guard Break Payment: Perform 30 Guard Breaks (using the Y/Triangle button.) Apparently, you don't have to break the guards, you just need to hit the mooks with them.

Execution Time: Like the Completion Bonus, but with boss fights.

There's also Scarlett bonuses if you find her three times in each stage. The one time she showed up Geop missed was in the main lobby (sort of.) You need to stand on that big heart on the floor next to when you first enter the room and it turns into an elevator that takes you to her.

That's about it for right now, but there are other ones that are kind of mysterious as hell.

countzio fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jun 3, 2014

Zellyn
Sep 27, 2000

The way he truly is.
Oh yeah, and the deer head thing from Shadows of the Damned you're referring to was a goat's head and you shot them with the Light Shot ability to dispel darkness.

Zellyn fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Jun 3, 2014

discworld is all I read
Apr 7, 2009

DAIJOUBU!! ... Daijoubu ?? ?

countzio posted:

You guys might have noticed that some of the things in each stage's ranking screen are weird. For example, the first stage had "Rescue payment" with Geop getting $0 for it.

One of the game's problems is not telling you what those kinds of things are exactly so I thought I might explain some of the listed ones so far.
The game does tell you what these bonuses are, but after you've finished a mission.

tlarn
Mar 1, 2013

You see,
God doesn't help little frogs.

He helps people like me.
I'm just glad to see Cyborg is doing alright with himself these days.

I haven't had a chance to play this Suda game yet, will be interested in seeing how it turns out.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Fun fact about the Gigolo missions: originally, they weren't going to be in there to begin with. Mondo's supposed to be a take on the James Bond style of hero ('Bond' and 'Mondo' are pronounced similarly in Japan), but with the idea that he was going to be married and be a devoted husband, despite having all these sexy dames throwing themselves at him. The idea of the Gigolo missions was brought up and dismissed early on, until one of the executive producers heard about the idea and decided that, no, it had to go in at all costs. Suda's discussed it in interviews, and, reading between the lines, I don't think he was entirely happy about being overruled on the matter.

Another fun thing to note: the music box you find in the deer head puzzle room is playing Dvorak's New World Symphony. Neil Armstrong took a copy of the song with him during the Apollo 11 moon landing in 1969.

There's not quite as much discussion about this game compared to killer7, despite both games hitting some of the same beats, but what there is, I can point out if anyone's interested. A lot of it is heavy, heavy conjecture, however, so half of it reads like someone ground up the disc, snorted it and typed out the ensuing psychotic episode before passing out.

tlarn
Mar 1, 2013

You see,
God doesn't help little frogs.

He helps people like me.

Kaboom Dragoon posted:

Another fun thing to note: the music box you find in the deer head puzzle room is playing Dvorak's New World Symphony. Neil Armstrong took a copy of the song with him during the Apollo 11 moon landing in 1969.

I knew something was bugging me about that music box, and that was it, thanks!

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.
So, if the combat is pretty shallow and there isn't much to it and the plot is kinda nonsensical and silly, what exactly recommends this game? The gameplay looks pretty loose and not so hot.

Bobbin Threadbare
Jan 2, 2009

I'm looking for a flock of urbanmechs.

That house kind of reminded me of Constantine's Mansion from way back in Thief: The Dark Project, especially the upside-down room and the indoor garden.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008

Bobbin Threadbare posted:

That house kind of reminded me of Constantine's Mansion from way back in Thief: The Dark Project, especially the upside-down room and the indoor garden.

Thing is, Constantine's Mansion didn't front-load the weirdness. The first floor and forward areas looked mostly totally normal and the mansion just got weirder the further into it you got. Here it's Pee Wee's Playhouse almost from the get-go.

slycooper20
Feb 14, 2014

I AM REVOLVER OSHAWOTT

Night10194 posted:

So, if the combat is pretty shallow and there isn't much to it and the plot is kinda nonsensical and silly, what exactly recommends this game? The gameplay looks pretty loose and not so hot.

Not really a whole lot. I got kind of bored with it and had to force myself through the rest of it.

AnotherGamer
Jan 12, 2007
Please change my name to "The Guff Machine"
So is there a summary on exactly what's new in this Nightmare edition? The difficulty level is the obvious part, but those item(s) that you can buy that instantly max out your combo level which sound pretty useful later on are also new.

Kloro
Oct 24, 2008

Fancy a grown man saying hujus hujus hujus as if he were proud of it it is not english and do not make SENSE.

Geop posted:

I really enjoyed playing this and canít put my finger on one main reason why.

This pretty much sums up my feelings towards this game. I had a lot of fun with it, but I'm not sure if it's actually any good.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
They're working so hard to present Mondo as a badass with mirror shades and a booming voice, then he puts down the sunglasses, reveals those huge animu eyes and it's impossible to take him seriously anymore.
Then again, this is Suda51 so that may be on purpose. Or not.
edit: It just hit me that the funhouse music is a musicbox version of a part of DvořŠk's From The New World. Pretty interesting choice there.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jun 3, 2014

Yagyumi
Aug 26, 2013

Right! It's bonkin' time! I loves a bit of bonkin'!
As each Grasshopper/Suda 51 game comes out, I (perhaps unfairly) disregard it as an 'all style, no substance' kind of thing; Killer Is Dead is giving me that same vibe, in an avant-garde, post-modern gaming sort of way. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad people like Suda are given the chance to break from the mould, but that feeling I can't shake off that expects to be disappointed stopped me from picking this up.

Also I need to ask, since there doesn't seem to be a lock-on feature from what I gather, does it ever become a hassle without it?

Lotus Aura
Aug 16, 2009

KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

Speedball posted:

I wish Mondo kept the glasses on during assassinations. Gives him a bit more character. What little his "stoic tough guy who never emotes" character amount to, anyway. C'mon, you've got Crispin Freeman, make him go nuts, Grasshopper!

They don't have Crispin Freeman, though? Mondo's very obviously voiced by Patrick Seitz.

kurt phillips
Feb 1, 2014

anilEhilated posted:

It just hit me that the funhouse music is a musicbox version of a part of DvořŠk's From The New World. Pretty interesting choice there.

It plays a few times throughout the game, even remixed at one point. I guess Suda thought it fit thematically.

McKilligan
May 13, 2007

Acey Deezy
Perhaps I'm missing something since I'm not at all familiar with the game, and not a single goddamn thing makes any sense yet, but holy hell this is the kind of thing that I'd come up with in a fever dream. Cyborg katana wielding cyborg beheads another one whose ghost goes up and makes the moon purple, then accepts a contract to kill a monster who's a girl who's a spider who looks like Alice of wonderland fame and shits spider children at who who also smells like fish and lives in a candy house also there's a sexy nurse who shows up to fluff you or get your blood flowing or something.

Well, color me intrigued. Also, I guess I have to go back and watch that Killer 7 LP - I think I watched the first episode or two but didn't get deep enough into it to understand a single goddamn thing - as near as I could tell it was an incredibly trippy rail shooter?

Ztarlit_Sky
Mar 4, 2014
Nap Ghost

Night10194 posted:

So, if the combat is pretty shallow and there isn't much to it and the plot is kinda nonsensical and silly, what exactly recommends this game? The gameplay looks pretty loose and not so hot.

I think it's people's wishful thinking of Suda51 releasing something worthy of Killer 7.

Killer 7 basically marked the establishment of Suda51 as something of an avant-garde game designer. It had shrill visuals, a completely insane plot and gameplay that really tried to work with the first two. If you look at the Hand-Out Killer 7, you will see a depth to the creative insanity which really glued the game consistently together and elevated it vastly above many other games that attempted to be "artistic". If people want to make an argument for games as art, it's a legitimate entry.

His earlier works are much less known such as Flower, Sun, Rain a... time-travel mystery game. I think. It's hard to really summarize it well since it makes even less sense than Killer 7 for the most part. Or Michigan: Report from Hell in which you play the role of the cameraman in a horror movie, which didn't really have an equal in gameplay before. Sadly with a completely forgetable story.

But after the inspired Killer 7, things went significantly downhill. No More Heroes was basically a mixed bag. It had some fun ideas for the bossfights... but the general stages were grindy and boring. The characters were outright ridiculous and parodies, but the parody was actually lost on many people. And it no longer had the weight of meaning of Killer 7. NMH2 was basically NMH, with still some fun ideas, still an affectionate parody of the issues of otaku culture, but it also didn't really improve the gameplay.

Shadows of the Damned is rather generic in my opinion and doesn't show too much of Suda51's influence. It has acceptable gameplay, but didn't really impress me. Lollipop Chainsaw's the same. And both games have sexist, erh, not really "under"tones.

In short, the later games had neither the experimental gameplay of his earlier pieces, nor did they live up to the sheer creative depth of Killer 7. But at least Grasshopper still clearly got "it" with respect to gameplay as can be seen with Liberation Maiden or the co-developed Sine Mora.

So then you get a game that carries the name of Killer 7. It sounds like a promise that Suda51 would finally put something out worthy of what made him famous. Judging by the thread, you know how it went down. I haven't played it, but I think the response speaks for itself. It's a shame since I'm really looking forward to what kind of game would happen if he were willing and permitted to try and surpass Killer 7, with little executive influence. But after GungHo's acquisition of Grasshopper Studios, I wouldn't bet on that.


McKilligan posted:

Perhaps I'm missing something since I'm not at all familiar with the game, and not a single goddamn thing makes any sense yet, but holy hell this is the kind of thing that I'd come up with in a fever dream. Cyborg katana wielding cyborg beheads another one whose ghost goes up and makes the moon purple, then accepts a contract to kill a monster who's a girl who smells like fish and lives in a candy house also there's a sexy nurse who shows up to fluff you or get your blood flowing or something.

Well, color me intrigued. Also, I guess I have to go back and watch that Killer 7 LP - I think I watched the first episode or two but didn't get deep enough into it to understand a single goddamn thing - as near as I could tell it was an incredibly trippy rail shooter?

That's basically Suda51's style really. If you want to actually understand Killer 7, you pretty much need to read the Handout Killer 7, or get the info from someone who does. There's a lot more to it than you could reasonably extract from the game.

Ztarlit_Sky fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jun 3, 2014

kalonZombie
May 24, 2010

D&D 3.5 Book of Erotic Fantasy
Geop, you said in the videos that this is your first Suda game, yeah? Well, most of the Suda games I've seen don't exactly have deep, meaningful combat. Lollipop Chainsaw was as deep as Suda combat gets, and even then you basically used one combo through the whole game because it was way better than anything else, and it was one of the first ones you bought. Suda games basically live off their batshit insane stories, and the gameplay is just there because it's a video game, not an anime.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if Suda stopped making games and started just making cartoons instead, but that's just me.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




kalonZombie posted:

Geop, you said in the videos that this is your first Suda game, yeah? Well, most of the Suda games I've seen don't exactly have deep, meaningful combat. Lollipop Chainsaw was as deep as Suda combat gets, and even then you basically used one combo through the whole game because it was way better than anything else, and it was one of the first ones you bought. Suda games basically live off their batshit insane stories, and the gameplay is just there because it's a video game, not an anime.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if Suda stopped making games and started just making cartoons instead, but that's just me.

Give Suda half a dozen people to design the game, let him have final say on what will be put in so we don't end up with Gigolo mission nonsense again, co-op him with Platinum and have SONY/[COMPANY] bankroll them for their time.

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
It's worth emphasizing here: Suda51 did not have a whole lot to do with this game. He hasn't had much to do with any Grasshopper titles since NMH2 at the latest. He throws a few ideas out, lets some douche bag slap his name on the box, collects his money, and leaves.

kalonZombie
May 24, 2010

D&D 3.5 Book of Erotic Fantasy

Oxxidation posted:

It's worth emphasizing here: Suda51 did not have a whole lot to do with this game. He hasn't had much to do with any Grasshopper titles since NMH2 at the latest. He throws a few ideas out, lets some douche bag slap his name on the box, collects his money, and leaves.

So it's another case of Lollipop Chainsaw, where James Gunn did most of the writing and such, but Suda51 basically directed it and slapped his name on the title splash?

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007

kalonZombie posted:

So it's another case of Lollipop Chainsaw, where James Gunn did most of the writing and such, but Suda51 basically directed it and slapped his name on the title splash?

Pretty much! I forget who doing the actual work on this one, though.

WaltherFeng
May 15, 2013

50 thousand people used to live here. Now, it's the Mushroom Kingdom.
The gameplay is acceptable if you just like action games that require twitch reflexes (As opposed to many action games that require none at all). However, pretty much everything else in Killer is Dead ruined the experience for me. The levels feel tedious and poorly designed and the script is neither funny nor interesting. Worst of all, there's not a single "Yeah, that's awesome as hell" moment in the game.

Meis
Sep 2, 2011

Does suda write these things? Whoever does has some pretty disturbing attitudes towards women, it seems. Going off what I've seen so far here and in previous suda games.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Geop
Oct 26, 2007

kalonZombie posted:

Geop, you said in the videos that this is your first Suda game, yeah? Well, most of the Suda games I've seen don't exactly have deep, meaningful combat. Lollipop Chainsaw was as deep as Suda combat gets, and even then you basically used one combo through the whole game because it was way better than anything else, and it was one of the first ones you bought. Suda games basically live off their batshit insane stories, and the gameplay is just there because it's a video game, not an anime.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if Suda stopped making games and started just making cartoons instead, but that's just me.
Actually I lied! I'm about halfway in to Killer 7 but I ran out of gas at one point. Was still super confused :staredog:

  • Locked thread