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Woah things are happening in this thread! My embassy is open but I saw bad things might happen to me within an hour (??) someone quick tell me what I need to do!
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Jun 5, 2014 19:06
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I'm good then. I don't have time to think about this right now but we, as a town, have incredible weapons at our disposal. If we can generally agree on people who are scummy we can through the thread debate targets for military / espionage, wield the world's force as our personal vigilante. On a smaller scale each individual empire should be doing this as well, but considering the different win conditions this isn't an ideal solution as, for the goal of elevating the town in general, we should do it through the thread to thin the influence of individual empire goals. I also want to have serious talks about the possibility of open discussion of empire goals. As far as I understand none of these should be 'anti town', but if we ignore them we risk turning otherwise town players into basically third party players. We can't afford that. Thoughts on this? As for me I read the rules but don't have them down pat yet, there's obviously a lot to keep track of (which I think rocks anyone who has seen the wild west games knows I like complicated rules), but I've only skimmed the thread. Amnistar could easily have slipped but I don't think so, I think he's just town who assumed 5 empires 1 scum / empire more or less and just got that idea in his head. Considering all there is to keep track of I don't consider it a slip and I do think some of the votes on him are opportunistic.
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Jun 5, 2014 20:02
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So who wants a Nobel Prize?
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Jun 6, 2014 02:28
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Your Personal Muse posted:So I guess I do the OMGUS? ##vote Grandi Why does this thought come out of nowhere?
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Jun 6, 2014 23:25
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Your Personal Muse posted:Except it comes right after I just made a case on him. Not really, you mention him, then you insert a lot of fluff between it and the vote, then don't even mention the actual 'case' when voting him instead phrasing it as a question and acknowledging it as a tainted vote. The phrasing here irks me. I am curious why you chose to separate them and the best I can tell is that you listed a bunch of ideas then just sat on one, which is not a very effective way of playing. For the record I don't think this makes you scum but it sure as heck doesn't make your points convincing.
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Jun 7, 2014 00:51
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Rarity posted:I feel like you could develop this a bit more. Are you saying that me/capps/Meinberg are giving you scummy reads? That's a big jump from 'this argument is bad'.
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Jun 7, 2014 18:19
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Rarity posted:Maybe I'm reading the post wrong? It sounds like he's saying Pander isn't targeting townies because he thinks the people Pander has singled out are scummy. If that's the case I'd like to know what's giving him that opinion. Ah gotcha I see what you mean now 
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Jun 7, 2014 18:45
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Grandicap posted:Every time I sign up for a big game, I remember why I hate signing up for big games. I can't keep track of this many people at once. I'll be playing the Like part of this mafia-like until the game gets smaller I guess. Just focus on small pieces for now one the player list whittles down you can look at the big picture but there's no reason you can't look for scum as it is, man.
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Jun 8, 2014 19:55
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I have returned. Finding Yuming suspicious but I won't claim it's anything more than a gut reaction. Many votes around her cite her 'usual play' which turns me off immensely to lynching her, I have never seen this argument work. That said there is something very squirmy about the way she showed up and dropped a lot of noise very quickly after her name was dropped.
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Jun 9, 2014 00:30
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Someone give me 20 words on why we should lynch Pander? Putting my mouth where my money is and going with my only gut read right now. Just splashing some holy water on her and glaring does nothing. ##vote Yuming
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Jun 9, 2014 00:33
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Feeling very comfortable with my Yuming vote, I strictly set out that it was a gut read and my only one, but I would stand by it, then Yuming makes a case on me based on having... one gut read and voting for it. That's terrible logic, I stated voluntarily that it was a gut read and on day 1 of a large game I don't think that's unreasonable, and certainly not scummy. Her defense reads like she was just waiting for the nth person to vote for her, knowing that there's little if anything to go off of, and make that point. The problem is that she's trying to defend herself that there's little to go off of, and that's an incredibly scummy defense.
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Jun 9, 2014 01:32
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Ernie. posted:I don't like this post, and (emphasis mine) the preoccupation with whether something someone personally does is scummy or not isn't one I usually find in townies. When someone is saying your behavior is scummy I think it's fair to argue that it's not. I really don't see your point here.
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Jun 9, 2014 02:27
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Ernie. posted:I don't like this post, and (emphasis mine) the preoccupation with whether something someone personally does is scummy or not isn't one I usually find in townies. I really don't understand this. Figuring out whether people are scummy or not is basically the principal of town play. What do you mean here?
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Jun 9, 2014 02:33
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Ernie. posted:What I mean is that this right here is the least scummy of paragraphs I have ever written, in fact because I am saying so and it is based on the strong mafia principle that if it isn't even tangentially related to the game at hand it cannot possibly be construed as scum-serving and therefore cannot possibly be scummy. Now that we have established that my diatribe is not scummy, let me tell you that it logically flows that I am not scum, and therefore any and all opinions that I hold and will steadfastly not change, such as the one against you, are also not up for debate, and do not make me scum. Thank you for giving my text eyeball-time, also, once more, I am not scummy even one bit for thinking this much about how scummy I am. Oh you meant personally as in someone wondering if their OWN behavior is scummy. Gotcha. Yes, very scummy in most cases, unless someone says "Doing X is scummy" when doing X is not, in fact, scummy. Scummy scummy scummy. Scummy.
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Jun 9, 2014 02:38
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Hey people guess what: lynching people is going to be hard because most people are going to be very hesitant to vote their empire members this early on. We're looking at getting 13 votes from what is essentially a 20 person town. The only counter to this is the deadline because I imagine most people have the 'kill all the scum' win condition and you'd have to be an idiot to go for a no lynch rather than vote someone at a deadline from your empire who already has 10 votes. Unfortunately that deadline impetus has been taken away so we need to be placing votes as if it is still there.
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Jun 9, 2014 02:40
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QuoProQuid posted:That's also true. Previous post was supposed to be quoting this post. Which, by the way, I find incredibly suspicious if only because this fact is so blindingly obvious in any deadline situation as to make the posting of it entirely superfluous.
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Jun 9, 2014 02:42
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Grandicap posted:Well, the deadline impetus was taken away when there would have been a no lynch. That's debatable, I've seen lynches happen much faster. In this game the deadline is going to be the stick when we're done with the carrot to make empires face the hard truths that they have two win conditions and the first one can't happen without the town. (I am basing all of this on the assumption that each town empire member has a 'kill all the scum' win condition, barring direct third parties, for the record)
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Jun 9, 2014 02:45
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Today I announce that I will be awarding the Nobel Prize in Mafia Literature! The Nobel Prize in Literature has a rich and distinguished history, with laureats ranging from Kipling to Morrison, and Márquez to Faulkner. What do all its recipients have in common? In the words of my countryman, they produced "in the field of literature the most outstanding work in an ideal direction". For you, my fellow citizens of the world, this means two things. To be Outstanding is to be Persuasive, and to work in an ideal direction is to find the scum. Thus the Nobel Prize in Mafia Literature will go to the player who posts the most Outstanding and Persuasive argument that leads us in an Ideal Direction (here measured by leading, through convincing posts, the lynch of a scum player). Following the first Scum lynch the Nobel Committee (me) will review the lynch and decide whose words proved most instrumental in this endeavor, and that player will be awarded the Prize! Please note: members of the Baltic Band, myself included, will be ineligible for this prize so as to eliminate any appearance of favoritism. To your typewriters, novelists! To your pencils, poets! I call upon all of us to find what Nobel sought, a work that represents the "greatest benefit on mankind (the town)".
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Jun 10, 2014 17:34
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Byers2142 posted:I tried. I was told that we weren't to know, and that the ally was doing the same. Meaning there's two empire diplomats that have signed up 9 or ten player in a super alliance and didn't tell most of them. The Illuminati are moving, sheeple! That is highly suspicious, when Alliances even came up the first thing I did was check my Empire doc to see what they thought. Keeping things from scum is one thing but if you're not coordinating with your Empire that is highly suspicious. I can and feel it benefits the town to confirm that I am not in any sort of Alliance, but I may make one out of the interests of my empire (considering no one wants to be the odd empire out). If I do I would tell my empire though that's for sure.
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Jun 10, 2014 17:38
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Juanito posted:I was agreeing with him more, until you mentioned that he hadn't really said anything in-doc about this. It sounds more like he wants to get rid of you. Wouldn't that fact that he replaced in 5 hours ago explain this? (am I mistaken in this I feel like I might be mixing up Byers / some other guy or something because if it is the guy who just replaced in why are people acting like he's responsible for weighing in before he was actually in the game?)
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Jun 10, 2014 19:11
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For the record: I don't want to lynch Sandwolf, I don't think that these behaviors are scummy but they appear on first inspection to weigh empire needs much more than town needs.
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Jun 10, 2014 19:12
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Sandwolf posted:The issue is, he did bring up diplomacy and asked who our allies were/what our alliances are. I basically told him I wouldn't tell him for fear of letting information reach scum, he shrugged it off. Ah! That makes it interesting. I understand his position though, he walks into an empire where things are done weirdly and there's broad consensus for it, I can understand taking that to the thread rather than just complaining to the empire. Not seeing Byers being scum because of it.
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Jun 10, 2014 19:19
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Asiina posted:Nope! I'm confused by this, apparently Byers Asiina and Sandwolf are all in the same empire. Byers comes in and sees something weird going on, brings it into the thread. The consensus from others in the know is that Sand discussed this with his empire and everyone seemed to be ok with it (presumably including Asiina). Sandwolf / others with access to the doc can you confirm? If so then this post from Asiina is incredibly suspicious.
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Jun 10, 2014 20:05
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Sandwolf posted:I really don't like this attack by byers, because he literally never brought it up previously in-doc. No one complained at all, and seemed content to let me make the deals and relay the information. This is what I'd like to confirm. If Asiina sat on it early then jumped on it later when Byers brought the smoke then that reads as opportunistic scum. Like, really opportunistic scum.
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Jun 10, 2014 20:09
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This whole thing is fishy. Can anyone confirm Asiina saying 'I don't think that's a good idea' and having it drowned out?
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Jun 10, 2014 21:32
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I understand Asiina's vote then, having your diplomat go off and negotiate away your information or at least not tell you anything has got to be suspicious.
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Jun 10, 2014 22:07
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From reading this I don't think Sand has done much of anything wrong if his empire wants him to handle things differently they should be hands on about it and bringing it up in thread has clearly weakened their position.
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Jun 11, 2014 00:32
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Man there is some stuff going on in this thread. To be clear, Capps paid for a vig to kill amni after saying that amni's empire was targeting sand's empire? And they did it without getting the money first? That's like hitman 101. I gotta do the 'who said what when' out of thread thing which drives me nuts. Sand, what did Capps say that convinced you this was a good idea, outside of the money?
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Jun 11, 2014 14:57
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QuoProQuid posted:Also, Crazyeyes is almost certainly scum by process of elimination if we assume most coalitions have one scum player. Ernie's content and subsequent departure from the game were genuine and match my understanding of his character. 50 also reads as extremely genuine and I don't think his posts make sense from a scum perspective. I'd much rather have a review of the recurring issues than any sort of setup speculation. That combined with town reads cannot give an 'almost certainly scum' in my book.
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Jun 11, 2014 17:36
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So from what I understand a bunch of empires mass-claimed to themselves which obviously the scum would all get and then they posted this info in an empire doc for some reason? I want to know A) why would everyone mass claim when duh there's going to be scum? B) why would anyone think this would be effective since scum could lie? C) why would scum post it in a doc? C is the important one, informed minority vs uninformed majority and such. Why give that up?
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Jun 11, 2014 22:14
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Also either post the information or don't post the information jesus. All these empires sucking their own dicks while flipping off the town really cheeses me.
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Jun 11, 2014 22:15
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mr.capps posted:a) coordinate actions You're right it does help the scum coordinate actions. BAM
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Jun 11, 2014 22:37
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Staged.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:32
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Crazyeyes posted:The revision log will confirm what I have said. Gee I wonder if someone could have done that intentionally. You know. Staged it.
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Jun 12, 2014 01:50
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That's a pretty tough win condition yeah. For the record I wasn't saying Crazy staged it, I was just saying scum staged it, whoever that may be. Why would people go looking into a staged photo for incriminating evidence? It's honestly beyond me. Ignore it and move on. That said, I feel that a lot of peoples' reactions to it has been quite scummy. That also said I am way too busy right now to make a case on any of them 
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Jun 12, 2014 17:09
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mr.capps posted:Great insights Tom! Except I guess everyone discussing the photo came to the same conclusion, that it was staged, so I guess you added nothing to the conversation besides saying stop this conversation. I didn't say stop the conversation. People are looking at this and asking about 1st / 2nd person or the phrasing of 8bux vs 8$, that's dumb as hell, I was saying stop doing that. Actually looking at why it was released and people's reactions to it is obviously very important. I was saying start doing that. Also what the hell is the panic button theory again? Who panicked? Why?
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Jun 12, 2014 18:56
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mr.capps posted:Scum, once they heard a vig on legion would go down. And you postulate that the result of this was to post this picture to distract the town and delay a vig?
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Jun 12, 2014 19:14
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QuoProQuid posted:40% - Equal Distribution Theory Seems legit. QPQ I like oyu dude.
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Jun 12, 2014 19:14
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I can't reasonably support your lynch after this  QPQ will you be my Mafia Friend? I like your style and I agree with your case on CE. ##vote CrazyEyes Meinberg dropping that 'they'd at least spell my name right' line hits my gut hard.
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Jun 12, 2014 22:34
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QuoProQuid posted:Let's be mafia buddies What do you mean by 10 minutes, the post he was responding to was made 10 minutes before he posted?
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Jun 13, 2014 01:50
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