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DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

sector_corrector posted:

Is there a thread for Hemlock Grove? Against my better judgement I've decided to give Season 2 a chance after being incredibly pissed off about Season 1, and I was trying to find a megathread for a plot summary of what happened last season.

It was a grind for me to finish Season 1. But Season 2 is, so far...good? I'm cautiously optimistic. As I understand it they changed showrunners after Season 1 so I can only assume that's why.

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DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Zaggitz posted:

I'm fairly sure the dvds have the music as well, it's just netflix s1 that doesn't, which is insanely weird.

Yeah the dvd's are fine, not sure why S1 only has that issue though. But then rights are a strange thing. It genuinely spoils parts of Friday Night Lights for me. There's a scene where The Go! Team was used, and ok it's fine, I accept the very similar soundalike that they used. But in the final episode there's a great bit that's set to Explosions In the Sky's 'Your Hand In Mine' that's now gone, and replaced with something that's nowhere near as good. It creates the odd effect where you know something is meant to hit you more than it does.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

raditts posted:

Award shows are basically extended industry jerk-off sessions / advertisements for the actors and shows that win. Just keep that in mind next time you find yourself getting upset about them.

Some people get unreasonably upset about them. I mean is Matthew Rhys getting nothing for The Americans while Jeff Daniels gets nominated again annoying? Yes it is, and it's not really recognising the better body of work. But that work is still there for people to enjoy. It doesn't take away from anything at all. I get that people like to see the things they like do well and be 'accepted', but frothing at the mouth won't change anything.

It reminds me of all those people that were getting mad that Batman didn't win an Oscar.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Shageletic posted:

Nip Tuck is the poo poo! At least the first two seasons. That show hit a quality drop like a ferrari hitting a brick wall.

EDIT: I just started cackling at the thought of the son ending up a loving mime.

EDIT 2: And that serial killer poo poo was what really did it in. gently caress that went forever.

Ryan Murphy usually has some good short seasons in him, but it's amazing how quickly he can spiral out of control. It's already apparent with AHS, where Season 3 was just a mess of nothingness. He has this ability to throw everything at the wall in desperation. Part of me admires the imagination. If there's any wrestling fans in the house, he's the Vince Russo of the TV world.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

BSam posted:

I almost feel ashamed saying this now, but the Pilot episode of Glee was loving brilliant.

I'd say the whole first season is pretty good. It's sort of fascinating too because it's a show that's being pulled in 3 different directions by 3 different writers. It made for some inconsistency but there's a surprising amount of melancholy there as well, whereby it's pretty flatly stated that their dreams of performing are going to mess them up in a pretty big way.

It all falls apart eventually but I think had it just run for that one season people would've loved it.

The only thing I hated about the show at that time was the insistence on taking otherwise good singers and autotuning them all. Once you actually notice it it becomes grating.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
Man, I appreciate The Leftovers more than I like it. It's getting hard to keep watching though. I get what the show is doing and I think it does it very well, but I'd like to see an episode where people are just fine. I understand the impact that something like would have on the world, and on the psyche, but there's also people who will turn out well adjusted and find a way to cope that doesn't involve them stoning a woman to death.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Bown posted:

I would appreciate an explanation on how it's doing anything 'very well' because I totally believe it could be the case but personally am incapable of seeing it as anything other than heavy-handed poorly-written crap.

I think it works as an examination on how quickly people can turn to poo poo when their worldview is turned around in such an abrubt and violent way. It's an echo chamber of grief and lashing out that I think, for the most part, works. It's a show that's obstensibly about grief, and about remorse and about the unexplained and how those things can effect us. It's why I don't care if the event itself is ever answered, because it's not really about that, that's just the catalyst to get these people to that place. I saw someone in another thread say it might as well just be a about a train crash or something instead but it wouldn't work. It has to be something that's completely unexplainable.

I don't agree that it's poorly-written, but those types of arguments are best ended there because I don't think one person is going to change the mind of another on that front.

I get that it's a very polarising show and I can see why the people who don't like it don't like it. But for me you're either on the same wavelength as it or you're not. That's not to say anyone who isn't is wrong, it's just the way that some shows work.

DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Jul 29, 2014

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Bown posted:

That's a good analysis, thanks. I'm beginning to think my issue with it largely involves how much it wallows in its own pessimism - Sopranos, for instance, is a very cynical show but also has many, many moments of levity per episode. Same with Mad Men, and The Wire has lots of funny scenes too. Leftovers has nothing like this and is just overly confrontational (much like the Guilty Remnant), which isn't personally something I enjoy, even though the overall concept is something I thought sounded super interesting (and for the record I've always been on the side of them never revealing why it happened).

Okay cool! I still think the dialogue is awful but as you said, nobody can really change another's mind on that, as I found out when I read my Hemlock Grove-liking friend a list of horrendous quotes from that show and he had a defence for almost every single one of them.

edit: even "Stupid-rear end birds!"

Script-wise. Tone is mightily important. You can make the argument that Hemlock Grove works as high camp. So stuff like "Stupid rear end Birds!" works, but only if you think the show is trading in that. As an aside I disliked Season 1 of that show a lot but Season 2 has been pretty great.

Oddly, the issue you have I have with Game of Thrones. As an adaptation I think it's a remarkable achievement, but more often than not the message seems to be "don't hope for anything because it'll just get taken away". Which you know is fine, but 4 seasons on it's like "Ok I get it now". I think GoT has allowed itself tiny moments of hope, but they're so few and far between that the overall tone can be exhausting.

My hope with The Leftovers is to drag these people through the mud and then bring them out of the other side. Even a small reward is meaningful when it's well earned, but I don't think that't the type of show that it is.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Lycus posted:

I think people exaggerate this, the triumphant escape of the fan favorite character, killing one of the big antagonists along the way wasn't what I'd call tiny.

To be fair I think I'm coloured by the fact I've read the books before hand. But say there's stuff like the Reek storyline for instance, that, while well performed, is just hard to appreciate on any level. I think scenes of misery have to serve a purpose otherwise it's just cheap. So in something like The Leftovers, I can see why it's there because it's show that's about that very thing (And grief, loss etc) and I expect it. But I think there can be a cheapness to something like torture or rape that gets tiring, and there's parts of GoT that rely on those moments too easily. But like I said, I think it's more to do with me not seperating those things from the books, that fall back on them more, than anything else (Plus, I really liked this season).

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Super Ninja Fish posted:

I get this from Walking Dead but not GoT. There's hope and it works out sometimes. The Night's Watch somehow managed to win a war against 100,000. People hoped that Tyrion would survive this season and he did. Look at Sansa. Almost everything has worked to her benefit this year. So much has gone right with Dany, it's actually boring. Arya's been in a bad state mentally but you never felt like her life was in any danger this year. Most of her scenes were lighthearted or humorous. With Walking Dead, it's non stop bad stuff happening all the time. It's hard to get invested in anyone because it always feels like anyone can die at any second. Since there isn't much humor or lighthearted moments, it gets very old. Feels like you're just waiting to see which character will die next.

That's fair. I still think the demise of a certain someone who had their head crushed this year was a pointless gesture. I know the whole point is that things aren't going to play out the way that you expect them and there's nothing wrong with that. But they made that point with Ned Stark. There's different ways of subverting expectations than just killing someone off. I think it's too easy to fall back on that idea and the more it's done the less effective it is.

I totally agree on TWD though and it's why I gladly stopped reading the comics. It's misery for the sake of misery (And the comic goes much worse than the show does). The show and the comic are far worse in their 'no one is safe' mantra than GoT is and Kirkman is far too quick to go to rape as an easy shortcut for shocks. It's a cheap thing to do for what's such a serious thing. All that of course amidst the torture, child molesting, brutal violence etc. It feels weirdly 90s in its approach to being TOTALLY XTREME and yet people lap it up. It's not that I have an issue with those scenes happening, it's that they're used so cheaply and without thought.

The only good thing The Walking Dead did was have that arc in the comic where they meet peaceful, well rounded people who have made the best of a bad situation and are actually loving happy.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

hcreight posted:

Pointing out that American exceptionalism is stupid isn't something The Newsroom invented. The show just co-opted it with that opening scene so they could open with a bang and let Sorkin's moderate Republican martyr figure act like he's always right while singlehandedly saving the nightly news. All while a bunch of other really stupid things are happening on the show.

Save yourself from The Newsroom, bubblelubble. While you still can.

That opening speech is awesome right until Daniels says the word 'Yosemite'. After that the strings swell and he gives that "Gosh darn America is just great" closing and I knew I was in trouble. By the end of the first season I was wishing for the return of Studio 60.

In other news, The Strain is impressive in that it manages to enhance all the parts I liked about the books, and still retain the crap too. At least the 'Eph is a bad father' stuff ends pretty soonish.

Also, Sean Astin is not a good actor. Bless him.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Seams posted:

Everybody knows that 'Ray Donovan' is the best example of lovely fill-in-the-blanks prestige drama.

Man, I love Schreiber, but he's so wasted in that role. The problem is that he's such a good actor that he's still drat good in it, it's just a completed uninteresting show.

In other news, Steven Soderbergh got heckled at a Q&A with Jeff Garlin yesterday. His calm and measured responses to people shouting at him mid answer got people even more riled up. Someone shouted at him for saying that editing is the most important part of the process and when the guy tried to leave Soderbergh chased him down to make the guy hear his response.

I love Soderbergh.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Shageletic posted:

Trying to find the soderbergh thing online. Found a q and a for Che instead, handled the heckling like a pro. Does this man have lizard blood?

Why were people pissed at him this time? More deets please.

There's no specific reasoning for it, other than people paid to be at the Q&A and decided to berate him. There's quite a few people on Twitter who were there and have given a rundown about it. I'm surprised that no sites have written it up yet. Supposedly Soderbergh asked that the session not be recorded so I don't know if it'll be transcribed.

When Soderbergh was talking about modern cinema someone shouted "But you're quitting!" in a weird passive/aggressive stance and one guy almost stormed the stage. Sounds like Soderbergh just kept his cool though. I guess if you're on twitter just search his name and it should come up.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

the posted:

RE: Lost

I know they only planned on having Ben in like 3 episodes but later expanded his character, obviously. But did they ever reveal what his original arc was going to be? Like would he just die after 3 episodes or something? Or was he planned on not actually being an Other?

They gave themselves an out where, if Emerson or the arc itself wasn't working, they could kill him off and just have him be one of the 'others' who answered to a leader. It was during filming that they just decided that Emerson would carry on and be the leader.

For as much poo poo as the show eventually gets, they did actually an Option A/Option B for a lot of things in case stuff didn't work out. The only thing that really crumbled in their hands was the Mr Eko stuff, seeing as Lindelof and Cuse confirmed that he was meant to be a big part of the show going forward, and would serve as the antitheses of John Locke.

I can't help wondering if the end of the show might've been a bit more palatable if you have that strong religious component there throughout. It's easy to see that Eko/Locke would've been set up as the new Jacob etc.

As for Legends, as ridiculous as it is that they give a reason for Bean's accent, I really wish more shows would do it for people whose accents are not that strong. It takes one line of dialogue and that's it. As much as I like The Knick, Clive Owen has proven quite a few times that he accent work is wavy at best. Does the show really lose anything from him keeping his natural voice? No.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Aphrodite posted:

Was Eko one of the many Lost drunk drivers?

I wonder if Lindelof/Cuse will ever admit to that of if it was just coincidence. As it happens though, no he wasn't. He, for some reason, didn't want to live in Hawaii and wanted to pursue other roles. The only other thing I saw him in was GI Joe.

In other news. Jim Belushi has been cast in David Simon's new show.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Rarity posted:

He was in the second Thor movie

I liked the second Thor movie, and I genuinely don't remember him in it.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

...of SCIENCE! posted:

Times an actor has left a big show to pursue other roles and not had their career bellyflop immediately afterward:

-

Best case: David Caruso had a limo pick him up on the last day of shooting for NYPD Blue. He didn't even say goodbye to the cast.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
Just finished the latest 24 and you know what, good for them. It was a really strong season and wasn't marred by any padding. I hope the creative team realises the usefulness of the 12 episode format and don't go back to 24 episodes again.

Both Sutherland and William Devane had great, crushing, moments in the last episode. For all the ridiculous faults and moments the show has sometimes, it can nail those small human moments that show what a burden that life is.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Rarity posted:

What happened?

Gamers are terrible.

Indie game developer cheats on her boyfriend with various people in the game industry, mainly journalists (Setting aside 'Game Journalist' is an oxymoron) who have written some favourable pieces about her. This boyfriend has aired their dirty laundry in public and gamers have jumped on it to prove that Game Journalism is dead (really) and that women are destroying everything.

They do so under the guise of ethics but really just want the chance to call a woman a slut and highfive eachother.

The problem is that there has been a legitimate point to be made somewhere but it's drowned out by the sound of slutshaming. No one comes out of it all looking that great. And any genuine criticism or complaint (Including that against the Feminist Frequency series of videos) is now labelled as misogyny.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

MrAristocrates posted:

Also gamers are victimized as gently caress and are wholly convinced there's a huge loving conspiracy against them, the straight white males who enjoy playing Call of Duty.

e: King of the Nerds rules though, let's get some more of that

Honestly, the comments on porn sites are more respectful to women than the comments that most gamers make towards Zoe Quinn or Feminist Frequency.

Watched Dr Who. Ehhhh. Capaldi is great and helps ground some stuff, but too much of it is Moffat turning things up to 11 hammering home a gay relationship for no real reason.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Sober posted:

That is actually wrong, as there was no actual evidence the one journalist who she slept with ever wrote anything favourable about DQ. It was only something in passing in an article that just barely mentioned her game in the list of others. Of course, lovely woman-hating gamers all leapt on it and under the guise of "ethics" decided to slut shame her instead. Also a lot of doxxing (publishing of private information) followed and anyone who tried to defend her in one way or another was basically threatened with the same thing. This happened to Phil Fish as well, his own private information and corporate information got doxxed.

The entire brouhaha basically spawned out of a spurned lover and though it's basically a matter between two adults (they are both probably lovely people) and not really any of our business. It doesn't matter how lovely of a private person you are, because you don't deserve a legion of smelly, angry, misogynistic nerds harassing you or your family endlessly. Especially not over a private matter between two adults, albeit lovely adults that you have no personal connection to.

Oh, and of course since there was no legitimate claim to journalistic corruption, no one reported on it although everyone tried their best to stop people from publishing people's private information, which made dumb MRA gamers even angrier because they assumed Zoe Quinn did in fact, sleep with basically all editors of gaming websites, and moderators on all major video game forums, to stop the spread of it all, which is literally the dumbest poo poo ever.

Which is fair enough. All I've seen are images of 'proof' that people wrote favourably about her and that her and Phil Fish were faked hacked (Which I can believe actually). I got into an argument on Reddit (I know I know) with someone who honestly believed that the games industry as a whole was being ruined 'from the inside' by women. It's strange how gamers argue that games are an artform, but the moment it gets any sort of feminist reading (Like EVERY OTHER ARTFORM) they suddenly balk that women spoil everything.

While I do think Feminist Frequency should be taken to task for 1) The time they spend doing 'research' and 2) The utter simplicity of their arguments, it would be nice if someone who wasn't literally a neckbeard was doing it (Seriously, look at the 'response' videos on Youtube). I considered doing a sort of rebuttal (In written form, I'm in no way suited for video) but I've balked at the idea because I'll be branded with a label.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Deadpool posted:

Jericho was unquestionably a better show than Firefly. In my opinion.

I think this is about right. I mean Jericho had longer, but Firefly is made up of some really good moments and performances and that's it. No doubt that if Whedon got longer with it then it would've found it's groove, but it can't be judged on what might have been. I don't think it deserved to be cancelled, but there are so many shows I'd bring back before that one.

hollylolly posted:

Jericho fans generated something like 20 tons of nuts and got the show uncanceled once already. I think it's fair to say they had/have a dedicated fan base. Do you think if the show was on today that the ratings it was getting would be enough to keep it on the air?

I think there's a pretty good chance it wouldn't have been cancelled the first time around. I don't think it would've lasted all that long, but the show had solid ratings. I think they would've got about 3 seasons out of it and then there would be stories about getting a Netflix deal.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Aphrodite posted:

Moments and performances, minor things on a television show I guess?

It wasn't enough to get people watching. But watching it again now, that's all that you can grasp on to. They hadn't nailed the characters yet, didn't know hot to do serial storytelling or overarching arc. They still hadn't nailed the tone either. Minor things on a television show I guess? It's a very thin show that showed great potential but was ended before it was able to build on what it had. Serenity was a fine send off, but I would've liked to have seen what Firefly could've achieved.

While mood is great for something like Northern Exposure, which is a character driven show, it doesn't work for Firefly, which wasn't.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Vincent posted:

It surprised me how bad the first episode of the new season of Doctor Who is.

I posted in the thread, but I liked Capaldi and I liked when the episode actually slows down and you get some moments between The Doctor and Clara. The rest of it though is Moffat overwriting (Missed something? It's OK, Moffat has got you covered because he's going to hammer it home) and everyone shouting their lines at each other.

The embarrassing gay marriage stuff was just the worst. I don't know why two people keep telling eachother they're married, it's like they keep forgetting.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
Oh poo poo, Person of Interest Season 3 was awesome. As much as I love character driven stuff like Rectify, I love it when a show just barrels through story and isn't afraid to just go with it. It also helps that PoI has pretty great characters, even Caveziel has warmed on me.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Harlock posted:

I started watching Arrow because I heard some not terrible things about it. I like it so far. Everyone is also so pretty.

It fits the some wheelhouse as Person of Interest for me. It throws caution to the wind and instead of pulling back just keeps going. It does falter though and the show still has no idea what to do with Laurel. Their reluctance to kill her off made me think they were building to something with her but...no. Just be prepared to get through some soap opera tedium before a really good run of Season 2 episodes.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

raditts posted:

Was she in anything besides Supernatural before Arrow? I can't think of anything off the top of my head.

IMO Arrow season 1 gets good about halfway through the season. Even before that it's not so much bad as just "not nearly as good."


This would be less embarrassing for you if you were able to spell my name correctly. Not that much less, but still.

She was in Harper's Island. Which owned.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

PriorMarcus posted:

Is Maron any good?

Also what happened to that last man on Earth comedy?

Maron is like if Louie was written by someone else. It's fine.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

muscles like this? posted:

That seems premature.

It's true but they also got the worldwide rights, which is a pretty big coup...provided the show is a success.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
Man. Joe Mantengea is much better than Criminal Minds. Get him a really meaty role on HBO or something.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Irish Joe posted:

In all fairness, South Park is a good barometer of how a normal (read: disengaged) person might view a politically charged issue. I mean, if you're a well-adjusted person with a family, a job, friends and hobbies--a life, if you will--do you really care why the Israelis and Palestinians are killing each other this month? Of course not, so your view of the issue is going to be a lot less extreme that those who support one side over the other. South Park goes a long way towards expressing that oft-overlooked viewpoint by simply stating, "both sides are wrong. Find a more constructive way to work out your differences." Which, on its head, is not a bad position to hold.

I don't think it's a bad position to hold, I just think that they go down that road far too often and rather than being progressive it makes them seem a little toothless. I understand why they do it though. It's that Daily Show thing of showing that there's idiots on both sides.

As for HIMYM. I think Sepinwall had a great rant about it but they basically shot their ending years ago, and have stuck to it ever since. So while they know the end they've had to twist everything that happens so they can fit it in, which is why Barney and Robin get divorced for no real reason and why after all that time Ted really wanted Robin.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Fateo McMurray posted:

I bet they had everything planned then someone on the internet guessed the ending and they went "oh poo poo can't do that now" like dummies and everything went to hell.

Nah, they have a rough idea of where they were going. The show was always going to have that end it had, it just wasn't very good. Personally I have bigger issues with the final season than I do with the ending. It's largely nonsense and just seems like they're biding time until they can wrap it up, which is odd considering much was made of the fact that they asked for a final air date.

I think the show answers more than people think it does, but in the decision to serve plot or character they go with character, without trying to blend the two.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Aphrodite posted:

Yeah, people in the GoT threads like to pretend they're making a prediction when they've read the books.

But that's more to be assholes than to seem clever, I assume.

Those people are really obvious too, because they can't help but reveal too much. It's not "I got a bad feeling about X", it's "I got a bad feeling about X because I think they're going to go to Westeros and meet Stannis and then...". I don't get the 'I know more than you mentality'.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

CaptainHollywood posted:

I don't believe that. She more than likely joined specifically as a "one season" kind of deal.

This was basically it. There's no indication that she was going to stay on longer that one season and her role really served its purpose by the time she leaves. The DUI/Firing thing was just a result of bad timing and it got repeated so much that people have chosen to believe it despite being no evidence at all.

Then there's Matthew Fox. Dominic Monaghan outright said that Fox was a woman-beater. He doesn't elaborate any more than that and the bus driver he allegedly hit did drop all charges so who knows if it's just one actor being a dick to another, but it's not like Monaghan has a history of poo poo talking other people.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
I know 'The Leftovers' is sort of polarising, to say the least, but I really liked this essay and it does a good job of explaining why the show resonates with me as someone who lives with depression (As I'm sure many others here do).

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/7/6116687/leftovers-depression-hbo

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

muscles like this? posted:

Fox picked up the Minority Report TV show and the premise is kind of weird. It's a sequel to the movie, taking place 10 years later and follows the male pre-cog as he tries to adjust to life outside of the Precrime tank. He can still sometimes see the future and teams up with a detective to fight future crime.

That...is odd. And the timeframe for that is weird. The movie has the precogs getting out pretty soon after the events of the movie. It seemed more sense to set it closer to the end of the movie than 10 years afterwards. Plus it's going to spoil it now for all those people who claim the last third of the movie is a dream.

Plus the whole future crime thing is dismantled in the world of the movie, so how can they still arrest people for crimes they've not committed yet?

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Chamberk posted:

West Wing was a hell of a show when Sorkin was on his game.

By 'game' you mean when Sorkin was blowing rails and writing through the night until it got to a point where he was warned about it because he was only just making deadlines and it got so bad during Season 4 that they had to fire him because it was costing them money to wait for him to finish a script.

Sorkin is one of those people who, Social Network aside, was a better writer when they were allowed to take whatever drugs they wanted.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

STAC Goat posted:

In the first season it felt like there was some trashy or stupid stuff but it was an interesting spin on Shakespearean ideas that a good writer could make something really interesting from.

Then by the third or fourth season it becomes abundantly clear that the show is trash and stupid from a creator who isn't capable of anything more than that and actually revels in it. That's when you realize the good stuff was just stolen from superior stories and writers such as Shakespeare.

Season 2 is largely pretty good (though a bit trashy) stuff. But man, Sutter just loves violence for the sake of violence. Usually I'm fine with something like that, if it's on a show that isn't taking itself too seriously (Like Strike Back for instance), but when Sons does this gruesome violence and pretends it has a point it just exposes it for the ugly show that it is. Last season with the School shooting is the best example of that. You take a loving school shooting and do nothing with it other than to just say "Violence maaaaan, it's all around us."

They're also fond of doing this 'gentle song with VIOLENT IMAGES' montage because, I don't know, it's like irony or something.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

muscles like this? posted:

I'm watching the Stonecutters episode of The Simpsons and the joke about Steve Guttenberg got me wondering, what exactly happened to his career? I was looking on IMDB and it really seems that once 1990 rolled around actual roles just dried right the gently caress up.

By all accounts he wisely invested his money and owns a lot of real estate. I think Rob Thomas said that he has property everywhere. So even though he's not acting, he lives a very comfortable life.

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DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
I mean this in the nicest way to VagueRant, but if you have this view of 'everything needs tightening' then you're never going to enjoy anything and people should probably stop with the recommendations because he's always going to get to a point where an episode wasn't as good as the one before it and bail. There's been a fuckload of titles suggested and it's always "Well I like this, but...". I totally get it, I've stopped watching shows because they weren't doing it for me, but not to that level.

Breaking Bad certainly doesn't need tightening, because once you start cutting out things you take away from the whole picture. Everything in that show speaks to the larger themes, or to the characters themselves. Even the plot loses momentum once you cut pieces out because so much of it relies on how characters react and adapt to events. Breaking Bad certainly isn't alone in that, but it's one that was mentioned specifically.

DrVenkman fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Sep 18, 2014

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