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Sandwich Anarchist posted:Yeah when the first game was coming out, all of us were like "pffff yeah right" about what the said the Nemesis system was going to do, and then it... did all the poo poo they claimed it would and it ruled. i'm kind of surprised so few other companies have tried their take on the nemesis system, it really seemed like the thing everyone would be trying out a few years afterwards
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May 24, 2020 07:49
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One assumes it's resource intensive to design and keep track of all those variables, so there isn't a lot of space for other systems. AC Odyssey does something similar with the mercenaries, but they only have two randomly generated features each.
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May 24, 2020 07:56
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I was about to mention Odyssey. This is the first AC game I've played since the first one and it's reminding me a lot of the Mordor games. Good stabby action and exploring.
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May 24, 2020 08:34
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I love that game dearly, but my favorite thing is that most of the systems are integrated. You upgrade your stabby blade by killing cultists and taking their triangles, and you find cultists by exploring, either on land or sea. It's like a Witcher game, but without the jank.
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May 24, 2020 08:38
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Warframe has a basic version called the Kuva Lich. You go out and find an enemy from a specific faction who gets upgraded to be your nemesis once they die. You only get one Lich at a time, there is no hierarchy within that faction.The reward for killing them is a unique weapon or an upgraded faction variant - once they're dead they're gone for good and you can go find a new enemy to make into a Lich. To kill them you need to find three special words and then install them in the correct order on your little execution tool. You find the words by unlocking them from relics (this is the case for a lot of items in WF) and you discover the order by attempting to kill the Lich, but they get stronger each time you fail or get the order wrong. The combat in WF is very different to SoW so the Lich only gets more resistant to certain damage types and not strategies, which means with the right build you can just tank and spam them to death with almost anything given time. They also constantly bother you at menu screens, and when you complete missions in their territory they steal some of your rewards which you can only get back by killing them. It was not considered very popular by the community. Conceptually it's interesting because it's similar to SoW except it's the enemy who is unable to die except under special circumstances. The Grineer faction in WF are mostly clone soldiers, but a Lich gets chosen to keep on existing as a constantly improving version of themselves. Going after them for their weapons fits with the rest of Warframe's gameplay which is basically to 'collect all the things'.
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May 24, 2020 08:51
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The nemesis system owned so much, killing an orc so many times his head is mostly metal plates and he can only scream a guttural "aaargghhogoghaaaarrr" when he sees you was funny as hell.
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May 24, 2020 09:23
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Brother Entropy posted:i'm kind of surprised so few other companies have tried their take on the nemesis system, it really seemed like the thing everyone would be trying out a few years afterwards
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May 24, 2020 10:26
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bony tony posted:One assumes it's resource intensive to design and keep track of all those variables, so there isn't a lot of space for other systems. AC Odyssey does something similar with the mercenaries, but they only have two randomly generated features each. Its really not that resource intensive, The entirety of the nemesis system is probably equivalent to a single active actor NPC (when you factor in Pathfinding, Inverse Kinematics, blood decals, combat AI, animations, textures, etc.) The biggest challenge is coding the drat thing to trip the necessary flags, increment/decrement the correct values the correct amounts at the right time and fire the appropriate events in ways that would make for interesting and varied gameplay. you both dont want the nemesis events, and by extension the orcs, to be too predictable, while also balancing them to be not so rare that only a minority of players would ever see them.
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May 24, 2020 10:37
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The biggest resource cost of the nemesis system is probably voice acting and the army of artists needed for all the various orcs. The actual system is mostly based on killed by , killed you with , forced to flee by, humiliated by (weapon) There are probably roguelikes that do a lot more interesting stuff in a similar vein since they can get rid of the high cost stuff. Edit: It's pretty much the same as the AI in fear by the same developer, it's a lot of voice acting and smoke and mirrors to make it seem mor advanced than it actually is. Hel has a new favorite as of 11:41 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 11:36
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TheMostFrench posted:I can see why because I could just play 'Orc military manipulator sim' forever without much more context. Once I got to the second area and Gollum appeared I genuinely thought "What the hell..? Oh right, it's Lord of the Rings." It's a drat shame that it's a LotR game and not a Warhammer. There's this weird clash between the tragic fall of Gondor and goofy orc shenanigans, but also the need to at least pay lip service to a Tolkeiny style feels that they're having to reign in the goofy orc shenanigans. Just a weird middleground.
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May 24, 2020 15:25
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bony tony posted:One assumes it's resource intensive to design and keep track of all those variables, so there isn't a lot of space for other systems. AC Odyssey does something similar with the mercenaries, but they only have two randomly generated features each. Plus, when the mercs are dead they're dead and they don't remember, say, you burning them and then running away. It's literally just an infinite enemy generator.
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May 24, 2020 16:08
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Hel posted:The biggest resource cost of the nemesis system is probably voice acting and the army of artists needed for all the various orcs. The actual system is mostly based on killed by , killed you with , forced to flee by, humiliated by (weapon) Theres also an additional loyalty variable in orcs you have dominated. If you run away mid fight while with your orcs or show weakness or bad performance in fighting their loyalty goes down and theyre more likely to betray you. theres also a lot of random chance for how the orc gains/loses abilities, personality traits etc. In addition theres a random chance that an orc will survive being killed by you (yes bear with me here) and come back all sewn up wil metal plates on the killing blow area, and yes they can survive a decapitation. If theyre part of the Machine tribe* they can do this repeatedly and eventually become a unique orc called the machine, when they become more metal than orc. *for variety the orcs are sorted into tribes each with its own aesthetic, characteristics and dropped loot pool. Strom Cuzewon posted:It's a drat shame that it's a LotR game and not a Warhammer. There's this weird clash between the tragic fall of Gondor and goofy orc shenanigans, but also the need to at least pay lip service to a Tolkeiny style feels that they're having to reign in the goofy orc shenanigans. Just a weird middleground. A warhammer or 40k game in the same vein would kick so much rear end. Thing is its only recently that Games Workshop have gotten less stingy with their IPs. Rigged Death Trap has a new favorite as of 16:16 on May 24, 2020 |
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May 24, 2020 16:14
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The social commentary in this game. https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TightSingleIndianjackal-mobile.mp4 https://gfycat.com/tightsingleindianjackal Edit: Wasabi the J posted:None of these are loading for me so I'm trying something At least on the Awful app for me for some reason the gfycat embeds don't work. But the URL to it does so I included it on this one. Just have to strip out thumbs and the mobile.mp4 parts. Push El Burrito has a new favorite as of 07:50 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 03:09
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It's a drat shame that it's a LotR game and not a Warhammer. There's this weird clash between the tragic fall of Gondor and goofy orc shenanigans, but also the need to at least pay lip service to a Tolkeiny style feels that they're having to reign in the goofy orc shenanigans. Just a weird middleground. but if it was warhammer then fighting/recruiting orcs would be way lamer than fighting/recruiting skaven
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May 25, 2020 03:16
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TheMostFrench posted:Warframe has a basic version called the Kuva Lich. You go out and find an enemy from a specific faction who gets upgraded to be your nemesis once they die. You only get one Lich at a time, there is no hierarchy within that faction.The reward for killing them is a unique weapon or an upgraded faction variant - once they're dead they're gone for good and you can go find a new enemy to make into a Lich. To kill them you need to find three special words and then install them in the correct order on your little execution tool. It is also the most half-assed half-baked grindiest most tedious bullshit in the game next to Railjack. There are a grand total of two personalities, goofy male or ruthless female, and a lot of different appearance options that are all an eyesore to look at. Most of their weapons are hot garbage that can take weeks to level if you don't want to spend IRL money, in which case it only takes a couple of days. The words used to kill the liches are a pain in the rear end to farm, and between it and Railjack you get the feeling DE doesn't respect your time. Warframe's a game where the normal missions are almost always super fun, so you barely notice the grindiness, but it seems like the more Digital Extremes bolts on the worse it becomes. But just so this post isn't wholly the opposite of the spirit of the thread, and to remind myself that I like Warframe, I love how the warframes Limbo and Khora do straight up Jojo poses as idle and ability animations. Especially in the case of Limbo, as one of his abilities is to literally stop time. Most of the warframes have a lot of personality to their abilities, aesthetics, and animations, giving them character while not turning into cringe-bait like Overwatch.
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May 25, 2020 03:30
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Grineer are basically space orcs, which was probably one motivation as to why DE wanted to incorporate a nemesis system into the game. The problem is, SoM is built purely All About Orcs, while Grineer are only a subset of WF. The nemesis system is built for both: (a) throughput, you can get a constant stream of semi-forgettable yet distinctive orcs through your game as you chop through them, as well as (b) depth, you get a core roster of very prominent captains that you can get an actual back and forth with. The Kuva Lich system is neither, it is not fleshed out for either objective.
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May 25, 2020 05:32
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Phobophilia posted:Grineer are basically space orcs, which was probably one motivation as to why DE wanted to incorporate a nemesis system into the game. the only nemesis in disco elysium is The Past, tho e: also iirc secret of mana has orcs sort of in it but it's not the focus ok
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May 25, 2020 07:03
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Peanut Butler posted:the only nemesis in disco elysium is The Past, tho Electrochemistry: C'mon, why bother grinding for that new 'frame when you got that réal burning a hole in your pocket? Just buy the plat. JUST BUY IT. C'MON, YOU'RE SO FFFFUCKING CLOSE TO DISCO, BABY. DON'TCHA WANNA GRIND THAT HOT SEXY NEW FRAME? HE loving EATS PEOPLE, THAT'S loving COOL, AND YOU WANNA BE COOL, RIGHT??? Physical Instrument: Why aren't you putting more forma in your greatsword? You need to level it up so it can get STRONG. So YOU can get STRONG. Drama: Oh, my liege, shall we trust the siren song of the Lotus? Though she is our guiding light, I mislike her near-mechanical cadence. Surely she hides something from us. Measurehead: THE GRINEER HAPLOGROUP IS NEARING THE END OF ITS DOMINATION OF THE ORIGIN SYSTEM. THOUGH THEY ARE INFERIOR, WE MUST AT LEAST RESPECT THE LEAPS THEY MADE IN THEIR RESEARCH OF GENETIC SUPERIORITY, THUS ADVANCING OUR UNDERSTANDING OF RACE THEORY. PERHAPS WE SHALL ERECT A PLAQUE AT SITE OF THEIR MASS GRAVE. Cuno: The gently caress does kubrow care?
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May 25, 2020 07:17
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It's a drat shame that it's a LotR game and not a Warhammer. There's this weird clash between the tragic fall of Gondor and goofy orc shenanigans, but also the need to at least pay lip service to a Tolkeiny style feels that they're having to reign in the goofy orc shenanigans. Just a weird middleground. 
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May 25, 2020 09:00
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Screaming Idiot posted:Electrochemistry: C'mon, why bother grinding for that new 'frame when you got that réal burning a hole in your pocket? Just buy the plat. JUST BUY IT. C'MON, YOU'RE SO FFFFUCKING CLOSE TO DISCO, BABY. DON'TCHA WANNA GRIND THAT HOT SEXY NEW FRAME? HE loving EATS PEOPLE, THAT'S loving COOL, AND YOU WANNA BE COOL, RIGHT??? Disco Elysium is a game starring you, one hundred of your most prominent issues, and Kim.
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May 25, 2020 10:22
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Strom Cuzewon posted:It's a drat shame that it's a LotR game and not a Warhammer. There's this weird clash between the tragic fall of Gondor and goofy orc shenanigans, but also the need to at least pay lip service to a Tolkeiny style feels that they're having to reign in the goofy orc shenanigans. Just a weird middleground. Right? Warhammer has a bunch of vastly different factions and hierarchies too, which would interact with each other in unique ways.
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May 25, 2020 11:11
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Screaming Idiot posted:Cuno: The gently caress does kubrow care? Jesus that line lept out to me in Cuno's voice strong enough to make me mentally recoil.
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May 25, 2020 13:52
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The Wonderful 101 gives every single one of its enemies a sort of 'enemy scan' eyecatch when they first turn up, largely to call attention to them in their first appearance (Bayonetta had very similar). Part of the readout is a 'Danger Quotient', given as a percentage value. They prove that metric completely arbitrary as soon as possible, by giving the first main story miniboss, Laambo, a Danger Quotient of 100%... and then the monster he commands in the very next level is given an even higher Danger Quotient. And it keeps scaling up to completely absurd levels across the game. But there is an actual reasoning to its numbers, that the game never outright states. In a flashback, you learn that the initial alien attack on earth that gave Earth all this information was led by Laambo. He is, quite literally, the standard by which all human knowledge of alien invaders is being judged. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 16:27 on May 25, 2020 |
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May 25, 2020 16:24
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The Wonderful 101 is really just sheer Saturday-morning-cartoon delight so far. I’ve been having a rough one (who hasn’t, really?) and when I saw the Switch remaster drop out of nowhere I grabbed it since I missed the original and needed something perky. It is hitting the drat spot so far. I was tempted to post in the other thread about how sometimes my Unite Builds just kind of....stop feeding Wonderful Ones into the target, and you can’t seem to back out of a Unite Build like most Unites, so I have failed a couple “how on earth is it even possible to fail this” events....but it’s SO outweighed by how bombastic and fun it is, even coupled with a Platinum style ultra-high skill ceiling.
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May 25, 2020 16:39
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https://youtu.be/MyJgdcigms4
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May 25, 2020 18:57
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That could literally have been a secret cutscene in the vanilla game
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May 25, 2020 19:56
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The JoJo poses at 0:34 though, perfect. The game is a lot of fun, but goddamn am I terrible at it.
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May 25, 2020 19:57
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Morpheus posted:The JoJo poses at 0:34 though, perfect. Same here. Really appreciating Chip Cheezum's LP of it a lot more because hoo boy if this game doesn't have a learning curve
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May 25, 2020 20:30
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In Assassin's Creed Origins, someone whose family were killed gave me a quest to avenge them. When I completed the quest, Bayek said something about how he should let her know, if he saw her again. The quest was over, xp given, and no marker to return to the quest giver but I figured what the heck and went back to where I'd met her, and there was a brief conversation where she thanked me and talked about the future. It was neat, since the game (for once) didn't tell you to go back there, since she's not even marked on the map.
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May 25, 2020 23:56
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TheMostFrench posted:Right? Warhammer has a bunch of vastly different factions and hierarchies too, which would interact with each other in unique ways. A Sigmar/High Elf reboot of Shadows would be incredible. Ditto for 40K except Space Marine possessed by a sassy Eldar ghost.
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May 26, 2020 00:10
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That sounds like a one way trip on a black ship. Actually, the game should have the ever present option for you to turn yourself in and just immediately end the game.
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May 26, 2020 03:35
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Danger - Octopus! posted:In Assassin's Creed Origins, someone whose family were killed gave me a quest to avenge them. When I completed the quest, Bayek said something about how he should let her know, if he saw her again. poo poo, this reminds me. I need to go back to where I got the oil for Testikles in AC Odyssey and see how the slave of the oil merchant is doing. 
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May 26, 2020 04:28
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moosecow333 posted:That sounds like a one way trip on a black ship. Would it really be a 40K game if your character didn't get non-personed for contact with heretics (via chainblade) in an unskippable cutscene after you beat the final boss and save the planet?
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May 26, 2020 14:26
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darkwasthenight posted:Would it really be a 40K game if your character didn't get non-personed for contact with heretics (via chainblade) in an unskippable cutscene after you beat the final boss and save the planet? I want a 40K that's just Space Marine only instead of being a Space Marine you're an Ork Or 40k XCOM where you field imp guard gently caress it give me an Ork kart racer
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May 26, 2020 16:04
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TheMostFrench posted:Right? Warhammer has a bunch of vastly different factions and hierarchies too, which would interact with each other in unique ways. Imagine an Ork, Chaos, and Tyranid nemesis, each armed and bio-augmented to the gills, gunning for your head at the exact same time. Beautiful.
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May 26, 2020 16:37
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Len posted:I want a 40K that's just Space Marine only instead of being a Space Marine you're an Ork I just want a Space Marine sequel  .
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May 26, 2020 16:42
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I'm personally SHOCKED that there isn't a tactical rpg game yet that plays with the 40k mechanics. We've got an RTS, some squad based rts/rpgs, a diablo-like, fps, third person shooters, turn based tactical dungeon crawling, but nothing that actually plays like the game it's all based on. I want a Total War style game where the map is the galaxy (or a portion of it).
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May 26, 2020 16:55
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I'm pretty sure they don't want an actual digital version of Warhammer/40k because then people will buy that instead of the miniatures.
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May 26, 2020 17:11
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Zanzibar Ham posted:I'm pretty sure they don't want an actual digital version of Warhammer/40k because then people will buy that instead of the miniatures. Well yeah, I don't mean like an online wargame, I mean something on the scale of a single player campaign
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May 26, 2020 17:15
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My guess is either they never thought of doing it single-player only, or they figure it'll be a slippery slope situation and/or make people keep hounding them about the lack of multiplayer in the game.
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May 26, 2020 17:20
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