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Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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3 posted:

Yeah, a lot of credulous gamers only took the surface level "you're a bad person for playing this game" read from Spec Ops rather than the obviously intended "you should critically examine the media you consume, especially in this genre."

Yeah bingo.

I remember laughing at some goon who was adamant that in order for the point to come across you should've been able to save civilians. :allears:

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Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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WirelessPillow posted:

The game was advertised as having tough choices, many not necessarily good. They couldn't figure out how to create a scenario where the player had to choose to do something as bad as hitting those civilians so they forced it, then call you bad for doing it from that point on. Up until that point it felt like everything the character was doing was the players fault, that was taken and it diminished the impact of the game for me. I was still drained at the end of the game. Ultimately the failure was that they took the selling point "Tough choices" and took it away from the player to force a rough outcome on the player. I remember being instantly annoyed that the game hyped for its ability of choice in key moments straight up took that away from me, not because the situation needed a "Right now call" but because there was no other way to progress gameplay wise.
I appreciate what they were going for but I believe they failed but not having two equally uncomfortable options with your back to a wall forcing you to make a choice, instead of just saying "do a war crime, we've taken the choice away from you even though you could probably just shoot the guys down there like normal". A better setting and an actual backs to the wall scenario would help miles, meaning that one of the most "impactful" moments in the game becomes one of its weakest points.

That being said I also recognize how hard that is to write and design, I can remember having some seriously uncomfortable choices in games but can't for the life of me think of the names of any games that do that.

I'd love to see the whole thing redone with actual choice, outcome obscured till choices made as always.

lol here we go. Kill or be killed is the tough choice. You can't be the goodboy in a lovely war sorry :mil101:

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Games's called The Line because you're going to have to cross it to see things through. They should've just called it Spec Ops: The Whole loving Point

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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WirelessPillow posted:

The fact is they threw enemies at you in a location where it feels like you can either go around it or just shoot them like you have been the whole game. It doesn't feel as necessary as the game tries to tell you it is and that diminishes the experience. Especially when there are other moments in the game where it genuinely feels more tense as if you are legitimately stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I don't agree because the only way was through and you were pinned on that rooftop by enemy fire. You see an entire brigade blocking the way on your drone cam.
We could be lawyering about how you could just backtrack, jump over that car blocking a side street, break that window or whatever, forever. You are always artificially constrained in these games but you only notice that because you had to do a lovely thing you didn't want (as opposed to just keep shooting dudes which kinda works in it's favor as a COD critique).

It boils down to not really having a choice which... you know

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Crowetron posted:

I dunno, I always felt like the white phosphorous scene in Spec Ops undercut its own message by basically coming away with the same morality as the CoD games. It's bad because it was civilians. If they had been the Enemy it would've been fine to war crime them. The rest of the game has that vibe, too. The other soldiers you kill turn out to be Americans, which makes it horrible. "How many Americans have you killed today?" from the loading screens etc. It feels like the horror of the whole game only applies to killing certain kinds of people.

I don't think its intentional, for what it's worth. But I do think it makes the whole thing ring hollow because it doesn't actually bite into the jingoism it claims to. It's an interesting game, though.

Edit: Really, I think the game would've worked better if instead of "you did this to these people" it was "you did this at all"

See I always saw it as specifically targeted at people who enjoy COD and such. Because you do warcrimes in those games on the regular. It begins the same, and they turn the war-crime knob higher and higher as you go. These games usually do the "war is bad" lip service but then you're the least bad guy, or like a "dark hero" type. The "How many Americans have you killed" isn't implying it's worse than killing others. It's calling out people who think like that.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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jokes posted:

Is teleporting across a battlefield and stabbing a knife in some dude's neck a warcrime?

I didn't play many of these but for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hors_de_combat

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Sandwich Anarchist posted:

"The writing is terrible"- all goons about every game

Except anime games

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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"heavy handed"?

No! Undertale was good and interesting because it nailed the tone/expectation! So was Spec Ops: The Whole loving Point.

I'm a big proponent of the idea that videogames are throwing people for a loop to this day and this thread is proof.

It's good to criticize stuff but people are just dumping rear end over so many neat things... drat

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Hattie Masters posted:

It feels like it's judging me for having the temerity to not just go to the main menu and hit Quit to Desktop.

I've seen Undertale called peachy or, as you said, heavy handed. I'll take that over Spec Ops "Stop hitting yourself!" Bullshit any day

Fake edit: I realise after writing all this that Credburn basically said the same thing but shorter but I haven't slept at all, have work in an hour and a half and this has been a real bugbear of mine for years at this point

It's not "Stop hitting yourself" but "Stop sending people into lovely wars and then glorifying it in videogames". It's not making a value judgement about you personally, it's not about you at all. It's about being a good guy in a situation where you are forced to do bad guy stuff. The Line :haw: about not playing is not about you not playing the game, it's about loving United States in the Middle East.

When I say "knock knock" you need to say "who's there"

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Perestroika posted:

It's more of a collection of little things, but I just finished Resident Evil 4 (the remake) and I really appreciate all the ways they managed to build a nearly game-long escort mission without it ever once feeling annoying or like a chore. There are mechanical aspects like having Ashley automatically stay out of the way during combat and frequently being useful for opening doors and getting at loot. But it's also in the writing and presentation, with her being spirited and brave, and never once coming off as whiny or helpless. That one mission where you play as her having to dodge dozens of horrible monsters without any weapons to free Leon was a really good way of driving that home.

Narrowly escaped to the elevator:
"I'm loving done with armors"
*ding* Elevator opens to a room full of armors.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Biplane posted:

Too late, you'll have to powerwash it off me...

lmao

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTpRsEp-_04

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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credburn posted:

Fallout 1 is the only good Fallout and it's actually kind of not that great.

There are degrees of "kind of" in which I bury the entire medium of videogames.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Baldur's Gate 3 is so full of these fun little interactions, and the fact that they're tied to Inspiration (A bonus reroll) based on your character's background and goals is amazing.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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A BG3 pro strat: Cover the room in grease, jump up on the rafters and drop a lit torch.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Taeke posted:

In Baldurs Gate 3 you can not only pet the dog and talk to him using magic, you can also play fetch with him using game mechanics.

Also, it was a bit of an adjustment going down to a party of four after the previous games' six, especially because all of the companions are cool and intriguing, but it's easyish to swap them whe needed and most importantly, you're still involved with their stories even when they're not adventuring with you. I'm playing a warlock/sorcerer with high dex and charisma (and sleight of hand) so I just travel with the cleric and the barbarian and all the roles are filled, leaving me free to swap out the fourth as needed.

The ball allows you to summon him as a familiar

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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I woke up with Asterion hovering over me trying to suck my blood, so I stabbed him in the heart with a wooden spike and now he's dead as poo poo.

Game rules

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Zero_Grade posted:

You can use them to do things such as cover vents, block doorways, trap your friends who haven't figured out how to pick them up yet, etc.

It's also quite funny to pick up the Ornate Chests, because it's your dude walking over to this huge-rear end chest and casually sticking it into their pocket. It takes several of these before you become encumbered.

I found a spot only accessible by jumping (to me) so I had my Jump Barb get up there, stick two giant chests in her pockets, jump down and let my rogue lockpick them comfortably. Before yeeting them down a waterfall

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Yeah the offsalami isn't as good as prime salami.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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You can use these as nunchakus


These as a whip


And this is how a well stocked quiver with different damage types looks like:

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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All resident evil games have giant spiders in them.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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It is true. Either just giant spiders, or at least spider-like 8+ legged monstrosities. You cannot prove me wrong.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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TooMuchAbstraction posted:

Being sincerely wacky and 100% buying into your goofy-rear end setting is vastly superior to being self-aware about how weird everything is.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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jokes posted:

"Uhh yeah-- that just happened"
-Solid Snake, when a giant robot slams down in front of him from space

- Kept you waiting huh?
Extreme closeup on Revolver Ocelot's eyeroll.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Metal Gear Rex bursts through a wall and roars like a dinosaur.
Snake, slowly backing away, "Nice doggo... Easy boy"

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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RareAcumen posted:

Is this all just Avengers 1 dialogue? I do not think I've ever played a video game that sounds like this aside from one level of Uncharted 2 where Nathan Drake is like "Oh come on, how did they get a tank up here?!"

It's called Whedonism. Characters quipping like they're Chandler from Friends. It's not bad in itself, it just became very popular with Avengers.

It's kind of poo poo if you want something else than a Marvel Superhero movie. It's lampshading the absurdity. It's like laugh tracks. It's cheesy and lacks any kind of subtlety.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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sebmojo posted:

It's more referring to people trying to 'do whedon' badly imo

Should've qualified here yeah. His thing is being "ahead of the trope" and that in itself has now become one.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Really wish we weren't talking about the twitter chode in any capacity, a fantasy cyberpunk 2.0 thankfully provides.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Can't tell if this is

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Necrothatcher posted:

I always loved the PS2-era "reflections" where they just duplicated the map and models under an opacity layer.

That's what all games are doing if they aren't using ray tracing. In DOS era or today.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Yeah #1 is definitely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnMR6SOBa9k

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Yakuza 3 Melee Match:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfShqW9aD4k

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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How about "Spider, man". A quite blasé spider?

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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The phrase is "Let sleeping dogs lie" which means do no contradict lying dogs who are sleeping in any way. They might not remember and get real grumpy about what the gently caress you're on about.

Basically leave dogs alone in general.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Shooty soldier was the most fun because all three games were balanced around it.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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When slavs learn english they tend to pick up on the U being pronounced like A the last. So when me and my friends were playing Shadowrun on the Genesis/Megadrive we would read the chum/chummer as choom/choomer.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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Last Celebration posted:

Hell, I’m still not really up to date on a lot of modern slang. “Bouji” in particular confuses me because, like, if I’m gonna call someone stuck up I’ll just use the full word (bourgeois) to convey my full contempt.

Lame because you think people don't know.

Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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moosecow333 posted:

I do have a soft spot for when your starting weapon can turn into an absolute monster with enough love and care.

Same.

I'm thinking of Resident Evil 4, where fully upgrading the starting pistol gave it a high chance to instakill on headshot. On normal difficulty it's whatever, but on professional it becomes really good because everyone's got high health.

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Vic
Nov 26, 2009

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drat horror queefs posted:

In the original RE4 this was a trap option because it doesn't stop beheaded enemies from reviving as a parasite monster and it isn't worth the low damage vs other pistols and high investment for max upgrading.

Might be different in the remake, idk.

HA! Another neat RE4 trick. Plaga spawns are decided randomly on map load. It's a commonly accepted fact that headshots trigger plagas and it's completely bogus.

*tips fedora*

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