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Jeep
Feb 20, 2013


derp posted:

finally finished 2666. what a wild ride. I'm getting a lol out of all the goodreads reviewers calling it 'clearly unfinished' i guess because it was published posthumously and doesn't have 'the end' written on the last page after a description of how everyone lived happily ever after.

it seems i'll have to read his other novels to find out the meaning of the title, which, according to some excerpts in the afterword, has something to do with a graveyard, or the graveyard of existence, possibly how everything will just fade to nothingness and be forgotten at such a far out date.

I loved it.

I finished this book today at work and it slaps. Loved all of it, Part 5 prob most of all, going back and reading thru the Academics section afterwards is very funny.

I don’t usually get hung up on small plot details b/c I am mentally deficient but (part 5 spoilers (do people even care about “spoilers” in this thread)): is it implied that Hans drowns his wife

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Burning Rain
Jul 17, 2006

What's happening?!?!


I don't remember almost anything about it anymore except the killings part, but I enjoyed reading it

Antivehicular
Dec 30, 2011

I wanna sing one for the cars
That are right now headed silent down the highway
And it's dark and there is nobody driving
And something has got to give


Ultra Carp

Does anyone have a suggestion on a reading order for 2666 and Savage Detectives? I have both in my to-read pile.

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa


Antivehicular posted:

Does anyone have a suggestion on a reading order for 2666 and Savage Detectives? I have both in my to-read pile.

either way works. there are characters/bits in 2666 that you will recognize if you've read savage detectives first, and savage detectives might also be a less depressing book for this particular historical moment, but both are wonderful

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004


Thanks for suggesting The Phantom Tollbooth in the children’s literature chat a few pages back. The six year old I’m reading it to loves it. The nonsense sentences like “some of the creatures looked more like the others than they did like themselves” is entirely new to him. Might do Alice next

Mokelumne Trekka
Nov 22, 2015

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?



Hieronymous Alloy posted:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism

Absurdism is generally viewed as a response to and rejection of nihilism, but that very rejection requires some shared fundamental assumptions.

I just sped through Waiting for Godot this afternoon and I did not initially connect it to absurdism, despite the recent refresher above. In hindsight, I'm kicking myself for not realizing the play is basically Myth of Sisyphus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsxkEs6G-9s

nut
Jul 30, 2019



Like a third through Middlesex and yeah it’s horny, but I’m feeling pretty blah about it. Sadly my SO is super interested in sex and gender studies so now we’re mini book clubbing it so I can’t abandon.

It’s fun but it just feels like a pretty bland family history. I didn’t know much about the Nation of Islam so that part was fun to read.

apophenium
Apr 13, 2009


I'm reading Michael Kohlhaas and maybe it's the simpleton's take to cheer him on when he starts loving poo poo up but it is really cool and I'm sure there will be no consequences to his vengeance

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

Okay, since there's been some talk about it and the friendly lit therad seems to be more for people recommending the stuff they read I'm going to try fishing for a rec here.

I'm mostly a genre reader so I'd like to branch into something less bound by convention; I prefer having a bit of mystery and wonder in the book but the real catch preventing me from just going in blindly is that it can't be horny; graphic sex is a no-no and romance is ideally kept to a minimum.

Some (possibly?) lit I've tried and liked: Borges, Eco (minor horny bits vastly overshadowed by the story), Moby Dick (ditto - I think it's only got one homoerotic moment?), Hugo (a possible exception to the romance rule, but I really enjoyed The Hunchback, Les Misérables and The Laughing Man). Modern would be preferable but I suspect the closer to the present you go, the hornier it gets due to shifting conventions. Any tips?

Ras Het
May 23, 2007

when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.


A list of famously non-horny authors would include Kafka and Gogol at least, and both have plenty of mystery. Borges would've been my starting point but I can't think of a non-horny Borgesian author

Heath
Apr 29, 2008



Pale Fire by Nabokov. It's the least horny of his books with only some light, implied homoeroticism.

It's hard to recommend something with minimal romantic interactions - just curious, what about it is unappealing? Are you okay with nonsexual romance stories? Are you okay with sex if it's tastefully written, or if it's not embellished? As in, perhaps the sex involves some degree of clumsiness rather than just being pornographic the way a lot of genre sex tends to be? I'm thinking of something like Mishima's Spring Snow, where the main character is about to have sex with the girl he's been love with and prematurely ejaculates. It's romantic but it's the kind of first sex a virgin might have, awkward and unembellished but not unrealistic, I suppose.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

Ras Het posted:

A list of famously non-horny authors would include Kafka and Gogol at least, and both have plenty of mystery. Borges would've been my starting point but I can't think of a non-horny Borgesian author
Oh, I probably should have mentioned those among the authors I'm familiar with.

Heath posted:

Pale Fire by Nabokov. It's the least horny of his books with only some light, implied homoeroticism.

It's hard to recommend something with minimal romantic interactions - just curious, what about it is unappealing? Are you okay with nonsexual romance stories? Are you okay with sex if it's tastefully written, or if it's not embellished? As in, perhaps the sex involves some degree of clumsiness rather than just being pornographic the way a lot of genre sex tends to be? I'm thinking of something like Mishima's Spring Snow, where the main character is about to have sex with the girl he's been love with and prematurely ejaculates. It's romantic but it's the kind of first sex a virgin might have, awkward and unembellished but not unrealistic, I suppose.
Pale Fire sounds great, I've read about it when it was BotM but ultimately didn't get into it - definitely going to try that.

As for the reasoning - I'm a sad lonely goon and reading about sex'n'love of believable characters (hence genre mostly getting a pass) depresses me. That's it, really. The spoiler sounds like it would disqualify Spring Snow, though.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jun 3, 2020

derp
Jan 21, 2010

when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again

Lipstick Apathy

Pale fire is the funniest book i've ever read. it's been years and i still chuckle to myself sometimes when thinking of it

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

I think this is a pretty good draft class overall. It's really shaping up that way because of the water types.


If your authors are not horny they are trash

J_RBG
May 20, 2014



Embrace the literary horn. Also read The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien, that's non-horny, funny and has the best mood in any book

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

I think this is a pretty good draft class overall. It's really shaping up that way because of the water types.


I once recommended 100 years of solitude to a friend and he gave it back and said he didnt like it because there was too much sex and I stopped being his friend

Meanwhile, Peter Nadas remains unique in being the only author who is too horny for me

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012



Ras Het posted:

A list of famously non-horny authors would include Kafka and Gogol at least, and both have plenty of mystery. Borges would've been my starting point but I can't think of a non-horny Borgesian author

Now I'm thinking of The Castle where K dances with the barmaid and how the dancing, to me, was definitely a signifier of sex-ambitions (and he continues to want her, even if his want is a displacement of other things) and there's prostitutes/wenches. And generally there is definitely a horniness in The Castle because there's horniness in every part of life. So I think The Trial might be a better example of a less-horny Kafka, where it's not as to-the-surface as in The Castle.

nut
Jul 30, 2019



Does Steinbeck have horny? I read so long ago I dunno

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013



J_RBG posted:

Embrace the literary horn. Also read The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien, that's non-horny, funny and has the best mood in any book

if you remember The Third Policeman as non-horny then you need to go back and re-read the bit near the end about the bicycle

quote:

The bicycle itself seemed to have some peculiar quality of shape or personality which gave it distinction and importance far beyond that usually possessed by such machines. It was extremely well-kept with a pleasing lustre on its dark-green bars and oil-bath and a clean sparkle on the rustless spokes and rims. Resting before me like a tame domestic pony, it seemed unduly small and low in relation to the Sergeant yet when I measured its height against myself I found it was bigger than any other bicycle that I knew. This was possibly due to the perfect proportion of its parts which combined merely to create a thing of surpassing grace and elegance, transcending all standards of size and reality and existing only in the absolute validity of its own unexceptionable dimensions. Notwithstanding the sturdy cross-bar it seemed ineffably female and fastidious, posing there like a mannequin rather than leaning idly like a loafer against the wall, and resting on its prim flawless tyres with irreproachable precision, two tiny points of clean contact with the level floor. I passed my hand with unintended tenderness-sensuously, indeed – across the saddle. Inexplicably it reminded me of a human face, not by any simple resemblance of shape or feature but by some association of textures, some incomprehensible familiarity at the fingertips. The leather was dark with maturity, hard with a noble hardness and scored with all the sharp lines and finer wrinkles which the years with their tribulations had carved into my own countenance. It was a gentle saddle yet calm and courageous, unembittered by its confinement and bearing no mark upon it save that of honourable suffering and honest duty. I knew that I liked this bicycle more than I had ever liked any other bicycle, better even than I had liked some people with two legs. I liked her unassuming competence, her docility, the simple dignity of her quiet way. She now seemed to rest beneath my friendly eyes like a tame fowl which will crouch submissively, awaiting with out-hunched wings the caressing hand. Her saddle seemed to spread invitingly into the most enchanting of all seats while her two handlebars, floating finely with the wild grace of alighting wings, beckoned to me to lend my mastery for free and joyful journeyings, the lightest of light running in the company of the swift ground winds to safe havens far away, the whir of the true front wheel in my ear as it spun perfectly beneath my clear eye and the strong fine back wheel with unadmired industry raising gentle dust on the dry roads. How desirable her seat was, how charming the invitation of her slim encircling handle-arms, how unaccountably competent and reassuring her pump resting warmly against her rear thigh!

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa


read Cosmicomics and The Cyberiad

Mel Mudkiper
Jan 19, 2012

I think this is a pretty good draft class overall. It's really shaping up that way because of the water types.


apophenium posted:

I'm reading Michael Kohlhaas and maybe it's the simpleton's take to cheer him on when he starts loving poo poo up but it is really cool and I'm sure there will be no consequences to his vengeance

Are you going to follow it up with Ragtime, especially given the current zeitgeist?

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

Tree Goat posted:

read Cosmicomics and The Cyberiad
I've read Cyberiad but Cosmicomics sounds good, I remember liking Invisible Cities. Thanks!

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013



also

quote:

'Very few of the people guess what is going on in this parish. There are other things I would rather not say too much about. A new lady teacher was here one time with a new bicycle. She was not very long here till Gilhaney went away into the lonely country on her female bicycle. Can you appreciate the immorality of that?’

‘I can.’

‘But worse happened. Whatever way Gilhaney’s bicycle managed it, it left itself leaning at a place where the young teacher would rush out to go away somewhere on her bicycle in a hurry. Her bicycle was gone but here was Gilhaney’s leaning there conveniently and trying to look very small and comfortable and attractive. Need I inform you what the result was or what happened?’

Indeed he need not, Joe said urgently. I have never heard of anything so shameless and abandoned. Of course the teacher was blameless, she did not take pleasure and did not know.

nut
Jul 30, 2019



drat gotta read this bicycle book

Eugene V. Dubstep
Oct 4, 2013



nut posted:

drat gotta read this bicycle book

hell yeah

J_RBG
May 20, 2014



That's just perfectly normal writing about bicycles

Bandiet
Dec 30, 2015



Mrenda posted:

Now I'm thinking of The Castle where K dances with the barmaid and how the dancing, to me, was definitely a signifier of sex-ambitions (and he continues to want her, even if his want is a displacement of other things) and there's prostitutes/wenches. And generally there is definitely a horniness in The Castle because there's horniness in every part of life. So I think The Trial might be a better example of a less-horny Kafka, where it's not as to-the-surface as in The Castle.
They do a bit more than dance, if you remember:

quote:

Frieda turned off the electric light and joined K. under the bar. ‘My darling! My sweet darling!’ she whispered, but she did not touch K. She lay on her back as if swooning with desire, and spread her arms wide. Time must have seemed endless to her in her amorous bliss, and she sighed rather than sang a little song of some kind. Then she took alarm, for K. remained quiet, lost in thought, and she began tugging at him like a child. ‘Come on, I’m stifling down here.’ They embraced one another, her little body burned in K.’s hands, they rolled, in a semi-conscious state from which K. tried constantly but unsuccessfully to surface, a little way on, bumped into Klamm’s door with a hollow thud, then lay there in the puddles of beer and the rubbish covering the floor. Hours passed as they lay there, hours while they breathed together and their hearts beat in unison, hours in which K. kept feeling that he had lost himself, or was further away in a strange land than anyone had ever been before, a distant country where even the air was unlike the air at home, where you were likely to stifle in the strangeness of it, yet such were its senseless lures that you could only go on, losing your way even more.

Also, I would say The Trial is pretty drat famous for its sexual themes... almost every female character is lusting after Josef K. Kafka was deeply familiar with Freud's works, and has been described as a womanizer himself.

Ras Het
May 23, 2007

when I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child - but now I am a man.


Tree Goat posted:

read Cosmicomics and The Cyberiad

doesn't cosmicimics have like entire horny planets penetrating into one another

e: maybe I entirely misremembered Kafka's horny levels, it's been a few years

Heath
Apr 29, 2008



Ras Het posted:

doesn't cosmicimics have like entire horny planets penetrating into one another

e: maybe I entirely misremembered Kafka's horny levels, it's been a few years

Saturn is loving its own rings if you think about it

Tree Goat
May 24, 2009

argania spinosa


Ras Het posted:

doesn't cosmicimics have like entire horny planets penetrating into one another

e: maybe I entirely misremembered Kafka's horny levels, it's been a few years

i thought they were devouring each other in a sort of love/hate thing, it's been a while

Mrenda
Mar 14, 2012



Bandiet posted:

They do a bit more than dance, if you remember:


Also, I would say The Trial is pretty drat famous for its sexual themes... almost every female character is lusting after Josef K. Kafka was deeply familiar with Freud's works, and has been described as a womanizer himself.

I thought the dance was hornier than the rest. It's the whole naked versus veiled, sexual versus erotic thing.

I don't remember there being a part of the Trial where he gives into a sexuality though (unless its seen through death and/or other people.)

But generally, Kafka is definitely horny, just varying degrees of circumspect about it.

apophenium
Apr 13, 2009


Mel Mudkiper posted:

Are you going to follow it up with Ragtime, especially given the current zeitgeist?

I might! I'm unfamiliar with it and with E. L. Doctorow in general but it seems neat. I like historical fiction especially when it involves real events or people that are the quintessential "if it weren't real it'd be unbelievable" kinda thing. A General Theory of Oblivion was kinda like that for me.

Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

someday he would have an anchor tattooed on his chest

anilEhilated posted:

Okay, since there's been some talk about it and the friendly lit therad seems to be more for people recommending the stuff they read I'm going to try fishing for a rec here.

I'm mostly a genre reader so I'd like to branch into something less bound by convention; I prefer having a bit of mystery and wonder in the book but the real catch preventing me from just going in blindly is that it can't be horny; graphic sex is a no-no and romance is ideally kept to a minimum.

Some (possibly?) lit I've tried and liked: Borges, Eco (minor horny bits vastly overshadowed by the story), Moby Dick (ditto - I think it's only got one homoerotic moment?), Hugo (a possible exception to the romance rule, but I really enjoyed The Hunchback, Les Misérables and The Laughing Man). Modern would be preferable but I suspect the closer to the present you go, the hornier it gets due to shifting conventions. Any tips?

stanislaw lem

read one of the lesser known ones like fiasco or his master's voice

Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jun 4, 2020

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.



Grimey Drawer

Shibawanko posted:

stanislaw lem

read one of the lesser known ones like fiasco or his master's voice
Good idea, I've only read Cyberiad, Solaris and some of his (rather generic) short stories. I guess he didn't occur to me because of the genre trappings.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

derp
Jan 21, 2010

when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again

Lipstick Apathy

I've started reading The melancholy of resistance, and it's very good so far, I'm not sure if it will have anything to do with actual resistance but it seemed apropos for our current climate. Also I really loved satantango

thehoodie
Feb 8, 2011


derp posted:

I've started reading The melancholy of resistance, and it's very good so far, I'm not sure if it will have anything to do with actual resistance but it seemed apropos for our current climate. Also I really loved satantango

Life is resistance. Also László K is the best living author.

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Shibawanko
Feb 13, 2013

someday he would have an anchor tattooed on his chest

anilEhilated posted:

Good idea, I've only read Cyberiad, Solaris and some of his (rather generic) short stories. I guess he didn't occur to me because of the genre trappings.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.

the short stories vary in quality although i really enjoy all of them. some of the star diaries are very good. my favorite is the one where tichy goes to a place where the body has become infinitely malleable and it's just this nightmare world where fashion dictates how many heads you have and being tortured to death repeatedly is seen as entertainment.

the best lem is probably his master's voice though, but read fiasco if you are up for a more adventurous sort of story

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