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blue squares
Sep 28, 2007

Dallas Mavericks
Dallas Stars

derp posted:

i think they probably mean THIS century, as in, the 21st century, even though it came out last century. people don't know how centuries work.

Yeah I meant 21st too

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derp
Jan 21, 2010

when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again

Lipstick Apathy

What books would you think rival it? i have barely read any books that came out this century so I wouldn't know.

Sham bam bamina!
Nov 6, 2012

ƨtupid cat




knox posted:

Also, what are the go-to translations for Dostoyevsky? I thought I had this settled when I read up on it and bought a new version to read, but then when I looked back into it it was more "this is NY Times/bignames pushing a lovely translation" as the reason for Pevear/Volokhonsky being popular.
David Magarshack is my favorite Russian translator, and his The Brothers Karamazov is my favorite, but for Dostoyevsky's other books, there are others that I prefer. Michael Katz has my favorite Devils and is an excellent translator in general. Anna Brailovsky's revision of the Constance Garnett The Idiot for Modern Library Classics is my favorite translation of that book, and I've found Garnett revisions to be very dependable overall. It's really a case-by-case thing; most Russian translations are basically good, and the only blanket advice I'd give is to avoid Pevear & Volokhonsky (tin-eared and occasionally just wrong), David McDuff (scrupulous but stuffy, has unforgivably displaced Magarshack in the Penguin Classics library), and Rosemary Edmonds ("All happy families are alike but an unhappy family is unhappy after its own fashion.") as a rule of thumb, along with any public-domain translations not by Constance Garnett (edit: or Louise and Aylmer Maude ).

seravid posted:

Didn't know about this. Got any links? That's the translation I have for both Brothers Karamazov and Anna Karenina.
This is the most prominent piece, and while I don't agree with it on everything, the example it gives of the bungled confrontation over Alyosha Karamazov's mother is a perfect illustration of how they're sometimes able to miss the basic points of what they're translating. This is probably the most succinct bit of writing on the matter. There's a bit of an ESL quality to P&V translations; they'll use words that lexically aren't wrong but are tonally baffling. People with no frame of reference tend to assume that this awkwardness in English means that the writing is closer to the original Russian – it's not.

(I've already mentioned my favorite Karamazov; for Anna Karenina, I recommend the Rosamund Bartlett translation, although Magarshack's is excellent too and much more common in secondhand book stores.)

Bilirubin posted:

I have the revised Garnett translation, this fine or garbo?

e. for the Bros, for C&P its the Coulson
Both are fine. I don't even know which Garnett revision you have, but I know that it's fine.

Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 28, 2020

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




J_RBG posted:

gently caress!! gently caress!!!!

e: that is legitimately an insane thing to publish. How do you commit to that as a writing project. How do you see that and go 'yes that's fine'

e: the twitter thread's deleted so here's the article: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/...-for-our-moment

needs more emojis

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

Sham bam bamina! posted:


Both are fine. I don't even know which Garnett revision you have, but I know that it's fine.

Matlaw.

Great, thanks!

MockingQuantum
Jan 20, 2012




J_RBG posted:

gently caress!! gently caress!!!!

e: that is legitimately an insane thing to publish. How do you commit to that as a writing project. How do you see that and go 'yes that's fine'

e: the twitter thread's deleted so here's the article: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/...-for-our-moment

I for one am excited to read this modern-day rendition of the epic of Ecgtheow's large adult son

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




MockingQuantum posted:

I for one am excited to read this modern-day rendition of the epic of Ecgtheow's large adult son

now youre talking!


also,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63YvJnFtFhU

Sham bam bamina!
Nov 6, 2012

ƨtupid cat




Sham bam bamina! posted:

avoid [...] any public-domain translations not by Constance Garnett.
Whoops, just remembered Louise and Aylmer Maude, whose Tolstoy translations were personally endorsed by the author. Posting this on its own because I don't want the correction of such a glaring mistake to go under the radar.

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005



bofawulf

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




bjølv

ulvir
Jan 2, 2005




Sgu! Hædre de daner der elskede at kæmpe

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




"Ud og slås" for helvede

Nitevision
Oct 5, 2004

Your Friendly FYAD Helper
Ask Me For FYAD Help
Another Reason To Talk To Me Is To Hangout

Tolkien thread for your invented doggerel is that way ----------------->

apophenium
Apr 13, 2009


I finished Yoko Ogawa's The Memory Police and found it to be largely boring despite the neat concept. Wasn't really impactful until the very end when people's body parts started "disappearing."

Also started Death in her Hands by Ottessa Moshfegh and am enthralled. Not much actual plot but Vesta's internal monologue is wonderful.

And nearly finished with part 3 of Gravity's Rainbow. Not much to add that isn't already known by this thread but yeah Pynchon's prose is delectable and I've loved the absurd puns he's set up.

What are y'all digging atm?

Lex Neville
Apr 15, 2009


apophenium posted:

Also started Death in her Hands by Ottessa Moshfegh and am enthralled. Not much actual plot but Vesta's internal monologue is wonderful.

this book is really really good i loved it

mdemone
Mar 14, 2001

There is no route out of the maze. The maze shifts as you move through it, because it is alive.




Well that's enough recs that I think I'll pick up Death In Her Hands.

derp
Jan 21, 2010

when i get up all i want to do is go to bed again

Lipstick Apathy

after looking at the amazon reviews this is definitely going on my list

J_RBG
May 20, 2014



Someone in the thread mentioned Frances Stonor Saunders' 'The Devil's Broker', and it's good so far. It's not fiction btw but it is written well

Megabound
Oct 20, 2012



I recently finished Calvino's Invisible Cities and it was really beautiful and very accessible. I found the conversations between Marco Polo and Kublai Khan to be just as interesting as the descriptions of the cities themselves and it'll be living on my bedside to come back to every now and then.

Since then I've started Pynchon's Mason & Dixon and it too is wonderful. I've read Inherent Vice, The Crying of Lot 49 and Gravity's Rainbow so far and of the 3 of them I found The Crying of Lot 49 the hardest to enjoy because I've got really no connection to the pop culture of 60s. I hope I'm not going to run into the same problem with Mason & Dixon as he enjoys his musical interludes and cultural references a lot but I'm similarly without a touchstone. It wasn't a huge problem in Gravity's Rainbow as WWII is such a common topic of movies, books and entertainment at large that I found it much easier to associate with the world he built.

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



apophenium posted:

I finished Yoko Ogawa's The Memory Police and found it to be largely boring despite the neat concept. Wasn't really impactful until the very end when people's body parts started "disappearing."

Also started Death in her Hands by Ottessa Moshfegh and am enthralled. Not much actual plot but Vesta's internal monologue is wonderful.

And nearly finished with part 3 of Gravity's Rainbow. Not much to add that isn't already known by this thread but yeah Pynchon's prose is delectable and I've loved the absurd puns he's set up.

What are y'all digging atm?

I read some of William Blake and then I stopped to read a Celine book from the library, OP.

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



gently caress I know it's tens of pages ago, but I just finished the first book of 2666 and I'm loving astounded.

the subtle way he shifted his writing and characterization throughout-- the creeping way he shifts the first book from a lighthearted goof about two men pursuing a woman to a loving dire story about a woman objectified and abused by her two colleagues (one a childish idiot, the other a predatory sociopath who stalks a 15 y/o child) until she escapes to a healthy relationship just absolutely blew me away.

I wish this was more widely read. I'd love to read a more scholarly analysis of it.

blue squares
Sep 28, 2007

Dallas Mavericks
Dallas Stars

Famethrowa posted:

gently caress I know it's tens of pages ago, but I just finished the first book of 2666 and I'm loving astounded.

the subtle way he shifted his writing and characterization throughout-- the creeping way he shifts the first book from a lighthearted goof about two men pursuing a woman to a loving dire story about a woman objectified and abused by her two colleagues (one a childish idiot, the other a predatory sociopath who stalks a 15 y/o child) until she escapes to a healthy relationship just absolutely blew me away.

I wish this was more widely read. I'd love to read a more scholarly analysis of it.

I just started this. I tried to read it once when I was 22 and bounced off it hard. I’m finishing up Rachel Kushner’s The Flamethrowers before I really dive in, but based on this thread and the books presence on so many best of lists that I am definitely looking forward to it

Take the plunge! Okay!
Feb 24, 2007



I started Mircea Cărtărescu's Blinding and let me tell you, that went from zero to full on Apocalypse really fast and kind of unexpectedly. It's very good.

Famethrowa
Oct 5, 2012



blue squares posted:

I just started this. I tried to read it once when I was 22 and bounced off it hard. I’m finishing up Rachel Kushner’s The Flamethrowers before I really dive in, but based on this thread and the books presence on so many best of lists that I am definitely looking forward to it

Hope you enjoy it! Please come back to the thread so I'm not the only guy talking about it EXTREMELY late to the party.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG!!!




Bleak Gremlin

Famethrowa posted:

Hope you enjoy it! Please come back to the thread so I'm not the only guy talking about it EXTREMELY late to the party.

Its next on the list of giagantic books I intend to read this year

VileLL
Oct 3, 2015




Famethrowa posted:

gently caress I know it's tens of pages ago, but I just finished the first book of 2666 and I'm loving astounded.

the subtle way he shifted his writing and characterization throughout-- the creeping way he shifts the first book from a lighthearted goof about two men pursuing a woman to a loving dire story about a woman objectified and abused by her two colleagues (one a childish idiot, the other a predatory sociopath who stalks a 15 y/o child) until she escapes to a healthy relationship just absolutely blew me away.

I wish this was more widely read. I'd love to read a more scholarly analysis of it.

[in speedrunning donation voice] book 4 hype

Conrad_Birdie
Jul 10, 2009


I’m knee deep in Book 4 of 2666 rn. It’s...certainly taken a while to read. Sometimes I just have to put it down for a couple days because the horrors detailed in that section can be draining! Which is what he’s going for! It’s beautiful and terrible.

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012



Take the plunge! Okay! posted:

I started Mircea Cărtărescu's Blinding and let me tell you, that went from zero to full on Apocalypse really fast and kind of unexpectedly. It's very good.

His previously translated book Nostalgia is getting a penguin edition in the UK next year, and his giant masterpiece Solenoid is out in English translation in 2022, fyi.

knox
Oct 28, 2004



seravid posted:

Didn't know about this. Got any links? That's the translation I have for both Brothers Karamazov and Anna Karenina.

Yeah, see that New Yorker article someone linked. P&V got that hype train going for sure, I was convinced they were the best translations but when I really read more in-depth into it on like forums and other many different reviews the only consensus was that the P&V translation was overrated and dumbed it down too much.

I have both Ignat Avsey and P&V translations for Karamazov, and unless I read otherwise I'll probably re-read the Avsey translation.

I have the P&V translation for Anna Karenina because it was $1 at thrift store, I don't remember what translation I read it in before, I also read P&V translation of War & Peace. I'd read a different translation of War & Peace as well, not so much Karenina.

"THE PEVEAR/VOLOKHONSKY HYPE MACHINE AND HOW IT COULD HAVE BEEN STOPPED OR AT LEAST SLOWED DOWN"
https://www.firstthings.com/blogs/f...st-slowed-down/

Dostoyevsky translation discussion I found originally;
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/sho...est-translation

knox fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Aug 31, 2020

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.




Take the plunge! Okay! posted:

I started Mircea Cărtărescu's Blinding and let me tell you, that went from zero to full on Apocalypse really fast and kind of unexpectedly. It's very good.

I just started this too after picking it up for free a couple months ago from the Archipelago books site. Was not expecting it to go the direction it has so far but it's good as hell.

Also been on a completely coincidental Iraqi novel kick lately and would highly recommend The Corpse Exhibition, The Book of Collateral Damage, and Frankenstein in Baghdad.

Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Aug 31, 2020

blue squares
Sep 28, 2007

Dallas Mavericks
Dallas Stars

As someone who has read 500 pages of War and Peace in fits and starts over multiple years, and keeps getting bored by it, I’m happy to blame P&V rather than myself

Sham bam bamina!
Nov 6, 2012

ƨtupid cat




Nah, it's just a slog.

seravid
Apr 21, 2010

Let me tell you of the world I used to know


Well, all this news about P&V is disheartening. That one line about Ivan's mother in Brothers K is really damning, Jesus. I grabbed my copy to check if it was really there.

...and with so many unread books to go through, I don't know when I'll find the time to re-read a proper translation.

Mokelumne Trekka
Nov 22, 2015

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?



Conrad_Birdie posted:

I’m knee deep in Book 4 of 2666 rn. It’s...certainly taken a while to read. Sometimes I just have to put it down for a couple days because the horrors detailed in that section can be draining! Which is what he’s going for! It’s beautiful and terrible.

I would love to hear your thoughts on Part 5 when you're done, particularly your interpretation of how (specifically) Archimboldi intends to help his nephew. Legal fees? Shady connections? A quick hello? I've been left fascinated by this question months after reading 2666.

knox
Oct 28, 2004



blue squares posted:

As someone who has read 500 pages of War and Peace in fits and starts over multiple years, and keeps getting bored by it, I’m happy to blame P&V rather than myself

Wouldn't feel too bad, being in jail for 3 months probably only thing that allowed me to breeze through it.

seravid posted:

Well, all this news about P&V is disheartening. That one line about Ivan's mother in Brothers K is really damning, Jesus. I grabbed my copy to check if it was really there.

...and with so many unread books to go through, I don't know when I'll find the time to re-read a proper translation.

Yeah the comparisons of the like, 5 of the translations of Karamazov on that forum discussion link, made me realize just how crazy the media hype is which feeds itself as the other article goes over in-depth.
I bought the P&V translation of Karamazov after having already read it, thinking it was the better translation over Avsey one I had read. I feel the same way about unread books but I've still only got through it once, and it was somewhat over long period of time so definitely warrants trying absorb it all 2nd time through.

knox fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Sep 1, 2020

Tim Burns Effect
Apr 1, 2011



just got to the part in gravity's rainbow where a guy eats turds out of a woman's rear end. i love, literature

TrixRabbi
Aug 20, 2010

Time for a little robot chauvinism!



I've got a P&V of Notes from a Dead House I was gonna start soonish. Is it even worth it?

Lex Neville
Apr 15, 2009


Start it and decide for yourself. "overhyped" != "irredeemable in every way"

Idaholy Roller
May 19, 2009


Anyone else download every single one of those freebie Archipelago books during lockdown? Been saving Blinding and a General Theory of Oblivion but currently reading Sarajevo Marlboro, which is equal parts depressing and funny as hell.

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Take the plunge! Okay!
Feb 24, 2007



I downloaded most of them. Not Sarajevo Marlboro though, I’d read it earlier. Please consider donating to Archipelago if you downloaded stuff for free and can afford to do so - they’re having a drive for a matching grant from the Lannan Foundation rn

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