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Iamblikhos posted:many 20th century poets tried, often with hilariously lovely results (see under 'murray, les' and 'olson, charles') This is a long while ago, but if you can read Norwegian, 'Terje Vigen' by Henrik Ibsen is probably the best epic poem I have ever had the pleasure of reading. It is amazing. gently caress, Norwegian literature has some really strong points (or, had before we got stuck in a weird navel-gazing literary paradigm). Basically anything by our very own nazi Knut Hamsun is fantastic, and he wrote about almost everything over the course of his career. Then there's also excellent lyrical poets like Nordahl Grieg or Wildenwey. Sigrid Undset is also good, and was one of the first really great female authors to receive widespread acclaim under her own name. post your favourite local literary tradition here yo
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Jul 13, 2014 13:06
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| # ¿ Apr 25, 2024 02:20 |
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Read Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus. Then pop some acid and read it again, it'll make so much more sense
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Oct 25, 2014 19:00
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Also he debunks a lot of contemporary and even later philosophy in an off-hand kind of way. Like, logical positivism? Ain't no thang. Essentialism? Dead and buried. It's one of my favourite books, because he somehow manages to completely undermine so many people's life's works in a fairly short and sweet book which isn't even structured like a normal loving text and is full of slogans.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:15
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you have no soul
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Oct 26, 2014 17:55
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Yo Hieronymous, whatever happened to that Pride and Prejudice readalong? I loved that thread dude
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Dec 6, 2014 17:34
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Reading Victor Hugo first twenty-odd pages of the novel is just a list of how obscenely wealthy the English nobility is, I love it
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Dec 18, 2014 00:10
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:Has anybody read any of the "My Struggle" series by Karl Ove Knausgård? Been reading a bit about them and it seems right up my alley. It's very modern, in the sense that it's a guy doing a fairly well-written tell-all about his life and the life of those closest to him. None of those lives are very special, for the most part, being regular middle-class types. Being a tell-all, it's enormous.
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Jan 7, 2015 14:50
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The sonnets are p. mediocre, though, there's much better poetry available in english
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Feb 14, 2015 18:42
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Hamsun is great, though, I am reading his collected novels right now and they own bones
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Feb 17, 2015 22:20
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I particularly admire his first sentences. It is entirely possible that nobody in the history of literature has made as good first sentences to their novels as Hamsun. They're not even particularly fancy most of the time, they just fit the book perfectly. Even in his shittier novels (Redaktør Lynge, in particular) the first sentence is absolute gold. Norway certainly has no other novelist that can compete - possibly Ibsen with his plays, or someone's poetry, but the only novelist that I can think of that I'd rate anywhere close to him is Undset, though I've only read Kristin Lavransdatter by her. And Hamsun is in a whole other league.
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Feb 17, 2015 23:46
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It is literally just Hamsun and a guy who wrote second-rate crime stories, sorry to disappoint that guy who wrote those stories was minister of the police in the original quisling regime, though, so it has some historical interest
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Mar 5, 2015 20:59
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i sometimes want to learn chinese so i can read mao and cao cao's poetry for some reason the notion of these brutal warlords writing beautiful poetry strikes a chord in me
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Mar 9, 2015 00:30
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mycophobia posted:Wittgenstein's later work realllllllly could've used some editing. the problem with editing wittgenstein is you can't really do it, it's as much poetry as it is actual prose and there's a ton of meaning that can be teased out just from the mental state he puts you in i mean, imagine you're wittgenstein's editor, what are you going to do? not publish what he wants published?
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Mar 12, 2015 12:06
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heidegger makes up his own language and terms which he proceeds to use competently that problem isn't the use, it's that he means something very particular by every one of his terms (and sometimes those terms have other, more popular meanings) and you have to really know exactly what he means for it to work, and he has a bad habit of stating what he means once in the passing and then just moving on gently caress heidegger, but at least he's better than hegel
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Mar 13, 2015 14:24
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Stravinsky posted:Do you have any recs on some modern Russian poets (who have translations in English because I can't read Russian :languagefail:) vladimir sorokin is the best i know that's been translated (though if he's been translated to english i don't know). i think pelevin has also written some poetry.
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Mar 19, 2015 12:45
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Smoking Crow posted:I think that the Book of John has a good opening line for real, it's the best line in the bible, and the bible has some good lines
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Mar 23, 2015 10:10
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Smoking Crow posted:I have read them, and I like them. I was just wondering what you think because he gets paired with Robert Frost for banality he's a premodernist poet he's not supposed to be profound gently caress, at least he's less pointlessly verbose than shakespeare's poetry
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Mar 29, 2015 23:52
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you know who i really like in anglophone poetry? rudyard kipling best anglophone poet imo, horrifying racism and all come at me
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Mar 30, 2015 00:00
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CestMoi posted:Shakespeare's poetry is good, actually. a popular stance, and one i will not fault you for holding but not, i am afraid, a correct stance
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Mar 30, 2015 00:30
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ok he's a premodernist not literally trying to capture he essence of divinity through his poems, i'll grant you a certain measure of profoundness when you aim for that but even that is pretty much borrowed profoundness as he tries to make poetic sense of a ton of jumbled theological dogma, i am legit uncertain if i accept that the depth of virgil's poetry (at least in divina comedia, haven't read anything else) stems from the poetic form he uses or if it's just a function of the subject matter also, chinese poets etc from this period may very well be profound, i wouldn't know, so i'm limiting myself specifically to the western tradition here vilain, skallagrimson, shakespeare, homer, banalities abroad from the lot of them
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Mar 30, 2015 00:45
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Boatswain posted:You are confusing Virgil the Roman poet with Dante the Italian (actually Florentine) poet. oh my how embarassing yes of course kipling is also a premodernist poet so banality is expected and, indeed, applaudable End Of Worlds posted:i really need to know what level of irony you're operating on before i can reply to this post i'm being mostly ironic, but with a kernel of sincerity. the virgil thing was an honest mistake born from posting too late in the night, though, gonna cop to that like, don't get me wrong, i really like poetry, but i think a lot of people approach the classics in a silly way, looking for grand truths where someone really just wanted to express some concept in a good way through text and rhythm (that's the sincere part). also i don't like shakespeare's poetry, which i think is much weaker than his plays. so, when someone disses Burns for being "banal" it's just that his style is more simple than that of some of the other greats - he does an excellent job of writing about e.g. love in a captivating way
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Mar 30, 2015 13:26
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no i'm going for the point that poetry is far too often taken as a "serious" art form and judged by those measures, i.e. how it approaches the sublime or whatever, rather than what it very often is, which is a way of effectively and attractively expressing some aspect of the human condition. shakespeare, since i seem obsessed with him these days, is a particular victim of this attitude - especially his plays, which are often positively bawdy, are taken by many (in my cultural sphere) as "high art" in the same vein as your great classical composers or painters (arguably this is even a Thing in painting, with certain of the flemish primitives being prime examples, but y'know). so the objection of banality as a reason not to appreciate art is not valid, because a ton of great art is banal as all hell poetry-as-high-art is another Thing entirely. homer's writing, for example, isn't very profound - it's basically a way of recounting a story, which it is really good at. it is also a very valuable insight into the mindset of his/their culture, which is also quite fascinating. the point being that we have these weird criteria where anything good becomes deeply meaningful, and where the "profoundness" of a work is a direct measure of its value as a work of art. ionnescu et al pretty much demonstrated why this is false imo, but the attitudes still remain. the bar being set at modernity is completely arbitrary, that part was mostly polemic V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Mar 30, 2015 |
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Mar 30, 2015 14:18
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gonna cement my dunce reputation itt by admitting that i don't get it
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Mar 30, 2015 17:00
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no, i got that, i don't get the gretzky thing
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Mar 30, 2015 20:28
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Yo ulvir, you a Solstad man? I'm trying to decide whether to pursue a thorough reading of his stuff or Fløgstad's next. Got anything in particular to recommend? I've read some of the more famous novels of both guys (re: Solstad I've read, type, Irr! Grønt!, T. Singer and Gymnaslærer Pedersens Beretning, but none of the newer books and nothing really obscure) - I'm currently tending towards Fløgstad, but if you have any must-reads from Solstad I'm all ears.
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Apr 20, 2015 14:00
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bogomilism bestism
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Jun 10, 2015 00:41
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is garcia marqez worth reading beyond hundred years of solitude and love in the time of cholera if so, what's good
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Jul 10, 2015 13:09
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Smoking Crow posted:That's actually what it is how do you make a russian "uncynical" is that even, like, biologically possible
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Jul 15, 2015 13:31
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Crime and Punishment was pretty uncynical was it, though i mean, i guess it depends on your perspectives on cynicism, but the only "uncynical" part of Crime and Punishment, to me, is the role of religion as a redeeming force. everything secular in that book which is not directly Christly is cynical af - in a sense, the book's big Thing is shooting down what amounts to a doctrine of individual human agency
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Jul 15, 2015 13:56
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tangentially to this, i would love to read some literary analysis of paul's letters to various congregations. i noticed a real difference in tone between romans and first corinthians, for instance - does anyone know of any decent scolarship on this?
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Jul 22, 2015 15:55
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Mr. Squishy posted:The, uh, Moomins lady? She wrote any stuff that's not about trolls? ya she was actually a fairly influential social commentator and journalist/political cartoonist at the time i don't know if she wrote any novels, but the original moomin books are actually fairly clever+multilayered imo
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Jul 23, 2015 16:08
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i like arto paasilinna, who is a very witty if somewhat formulaic observer of contemporary mentality and society ras het, have you got thoughts on where he fits into the finnish literary tradition/where he "comes from"? it'd be interesting to see if he resembles some of the more, uh, heavy types
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Jul 24, 2015 14:14
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Burning Rain posted:His 'erotic farce' Kymmenen riivinrautaa (Ten Grates, I guess) was so boring I want to give the book to an enemy. just need to find one. no, but those of his books that I have read are very similar to each other, those books being year of the hare, collective suicide and the senile surveyor, all of which have been translated into norwegian so they're probably relatively successful examples of his work salama has been translated into norwegian with his midsummer dance, is that any good? V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 16:25
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Legit can we agree Mishima has the best death of any author pretty much ever it was a good death for a fascist to have in a failed coup
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Jul 26, 2015 15:25
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Stravinsky posted:ryu murakami (he's not the one your thinking of) some of these recommendations do not seem to match the bill of "not overly grim and pessimistic" imo
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Jul 26, 2015 17:01
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Mel, I think your view on suicide as a sort of redemptive act is underestimating the primacy of the aesthetic in fascist ideology. Now, I have not read enough Mishima to be able to make an argument from his literature, but I do know my fascism pretty well, and the whole Thing in fascism is violence and destruction as a good in and of itself, sublimating the self into a greater ideal Whole. The fascist's suicide is both an act of violence against perceived common decency and against himself - and, in Mishima's case, a deeply reactionary statement. It's the final elimination of the self in service to something that does not make sense, and whose very absurdity is its main strength. So the suicide is not an act of personal development, it's an act of individual annihilation. Faced with final and inevitable failure in his grand plan, Mishima-the-fascist has decided that the only way to proceed is through victory or death - really, the attempted coup was not a serious attempt at a coup, it was a final Act before the utter destruction of the individual. When there is no mass movement to serve, the fascist's grand idea can only be embodied in suicide.
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Jul 26, 2015 18:34
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I would agree, but I think the thing from Mishima's writing is the ever-present idea of death as an element of rebirth both in a spiritual and political sense. Obviously Mishima knew his coup would fail, but I think his suicide was not meant for him to be his own absolute annihilation in the face of knowing his philosophy was untenable. Well, I think it's both, is my point. When there is no collective to submerge in, tradition and death are the only alternatives remaining, and Mishima unified them in a very, uh, beautiful/repulsive way
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Jul 26, 2015 18:51
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Antwan3K posted:Brave New World is one of the worst novels of all time let me introduce you to this lady called ayn rand
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Aug 6, 2015 19:11
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it's not available in my city 
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Aug 11, 2015 16:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Why do you live in a sundown town i live in norway it's probably coming here once it's been translated. atm there's one shop in oslo that's got it, and i'm not going to oslo to buy a book Mel Mudkiper posted:Its a book, get the e-version drat i keep breaking my e-readers
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Aug 11, 2015 17:06
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