Read Some Real Literature: Anyway hail satantango

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Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

WAY TO GO WAMPA!! posted:

What's this threads thoughts on Swamplandia? I've got it sitting at work and sort of want to buy it cause the cover looks cool.

My original forums name was Kiwi Bigtree but I changed it after no one ever recognized the reference :smith:

Cloks posted:

I read about three quarters of the way through it before stopping because I thought it was needlessly brutal. There was cool imagery but I don't think the story was that great.

If definitely does take some very, very dark turns towards the second half. The first half of the book is kind of a ligher vaguely surreal kind of family story and then it goes to some very upsetting places midway through. For what its worth though, it does end on a redemptive note rather than a destructive one, which is worth something.

I still thought it was very, very good and should have won the Pulitzer Prize out of the other two nominees.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2015 19:59

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 07:52

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Barlow posted:

Anyone know if "Redeployement" by Phil Klay is any good or have any thoughts on it? I'm trying to decide between that and Marilynne Robinson's "Lila" for my next book.

Redeployment is interesting because it more or less follows the chronology of the stories as he wrote them over the course of a few years. What this means is that the earlier stories, especially the first one, are incredibly weak and cliche. By the early middle of the book however, you are hitting fiction that is probably the best meditation on the Iraq War yet. The second half of the collection blows The Yellow Birds and Billy Lynn completely out of the water.

I would recommend reading Lila only if you read Gilead before it. You can skip Home, but there is a lot of intertextuality between the two books that I think really deepens the value.

# ¿ Jan 5, 2015 19:21

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Barlow posted:

I've done both Gilead and Home, I really liked Gilead but Home was pretty weak and felt like it didn't actually add that much. Hoping that this book feels a little less redundant.

Its a much, much different experience from Home. To me, Home felt like an unnecessary sequel and ended up changing the context of a lot of Gilead too much to really be enjoyable. While Home felt like a revision of Gilead, Lila is very much an enhancement. It gives you a perspective on the characters that increases your understanding of them more than it alters it.

UnoriginalMind posted:

I adored it. A beautiful, fantastical, cruel story about loss, recovery and family. I can't recommend it highly enough. Only reason it didn't win the Pulitzer is because The Pale King came out and DFW was dead, so they didn't award it at all.

Not really sure why that would matter. The Pulitzer Prize can be awarded posthumously. As far as I understood no one won because the Pulitzer board had decided no one "deserved" to win. I do agree though that The Pale King was probably nominated just to give the prize to DFW. Same thing with Train Dreams. Denis Johnson deserves a Pulitzer, just not for that book.

Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jan 6, 2015

# ¿ Jan 6, 2015 02:08

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Rabbit Hill posted:

Coincidentally, I just checked out Gilead from the library and was about to start on it tonight. Is it advisable to skip Home entirely and read Lila next?

It feels weird to recommend skipping part of a trilogy but honestly I would. Home really doesn't contribute anything meaningful and really damages parts of Gilead imho.

# ¿ Jan 6, 2015 17:23

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

I have volume 1 and am debating reading it now or waiting for the entire collection and reading it one lump

# ¿ Jan 7, 2015 16:45

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

tatankatonk posted:

Try Ngugi Wa Thiong'o, Wizard of the Crow is one of my favorite books and Petals of Blood is a good place to start

I just picked up Petals of Blood a few months ago after reading about its insane publication history

# ¿ Jan 13, 2015 17:31

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Barlow posted:

I'd second your thought that "Home" was lacking and if you aren't doing the trilogy it could be skipped. Plotwise it repeats the exact same ground as "Gilead." The Jack Boughton character was far too relatable and friendly in "Home," he seemed to lack any clear characteristic that would make it obvious why someone would be so wary of him. The way that he's described by Aimes in "Gilead" you get the sense that he's dangerous, a potential psycopath, but in "Home" he's reduced to being a melancholy alcoholic. Thinking about it further actually hurt my appreciation for that part of "Gilead."

Yeah the Jack of Home is completely different from the Jack of Gilead and it makes Ames seem a lot less like a guy struggling to forgive and love someone who has caused his loved ones agony and more that he is a judgemental prick.

What makes Lila work is that it genuinely feels like two different perspectives of the same event. You can read Gilead and Lila and believe these are two different people interpreting events through their own world view. Home feels like its in a completely different universe, its completely incompatible with Gilead.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2015 00:07

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

UnoriginalMind posted:

Oh drat. No idea this book was so polarizing. What didn't you like about it?

Which book? I loved Swamplandia and liked Pale King and Train Dreams. I just thought Swamplandia should have been the winner.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2015 16:46

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

UnoriginalMind posted:

American Literature gets such a bad rap.

Contemporary American Literature is fantastic and I will fight anyone with the broken end of a beer bottle if they try to say otherwise

# ¿ Jan 16, 2015 22:48

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

I really don't understand where the stereotype of American Contemporary Literature comes from. I try to average about 20 or so "American contemporary lit" books hot off the presses every year and the experience is always way more diverse than I think people give it credit for.

Off the top of my head, the only books I can think of to fit the stereotype of "young white college guy experiences epiphany/middle aged man fucks his coed and thinks on aging" from the last year or so are 10:04 and Death of the Black-Haired Girl. Maybe you could toss Everything I Never Told You and Wolf in White Van into there.

In the meantime, there have been books like The Goldfinch, A Brief History of Seven Killings, All Our Names, The Good Lord Bird, Americanah, The Kept, An Untamed State, etc. If anything, I would say contemporary American fiction has a genuinely excellent diversity of authors and narratives, definitely superior to the weird idea of American fiction as a repository of shoe-gazing MFA students.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 19:29

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

tatankatonk posted:

Uh...??

Depressed 20-something RPG writer sitting alone in his apartment reflecting on his young life and the emptiness of it all fits the bill close enough to match "the stereotype" people talk about imho.

Not saying the book is bad, its surprisingly good for a book by an Indie musician. However, it could easily be pegged as more or less matching the stereotype.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 19:36

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

tatankatonk posted:

That would be a really weird way to put it, I guess? "40-something shut-in living with a severe deformity after an attempted suicide as a teenager freaks out after his coping mechanism of RPG-by-mail leads to tragedy in someone else's life" is a more accurate description of the plot, even if most of the book is given over to describing the interior feelings of loneliness and isolation, with most of the plot just being flashbacks and reveals.

As I said, maybe you could count it. You are right that if you look at it under anything but the broadest summary it doesn't really click. Ironically my original point was how there are actually few books that much the stereotype of what American fiction is so I guess thanks for proving that point for me.

EDIT: you forgot attempted suicide as a split second act of sheer nihilism after plotting to murder his parents

Mel Mudkiper fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jan 17, 2015

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 19:50

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Earwicker posted:

this book you guys are talking about sounds more like a typical e/n thread than any kind of literature

Arguably the only difference between literature and an e/n thread is the quality of writing. The Great Gatsby was one friend-zone away from carrying Daisy's printer.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 20:12

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Dante is literally fan fiction. If The Divine Comedy had been written today he would have been lead through hell by Goku.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 20:20

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Earwicker posted:

I don't think that is the only difference. I think literature generally needs to make some sort of statement about society or art or culture beyond simply detailing the life or a specific problem of one pathetic person, but again I haven't read the book you are talking about so maybe it does

It is interesting that you list art, culture, and society as important elements to analyze but don't mention people themselves. There is a value to a writer focusing on the human experience in itself, and I would argue it's the most important element of good fiction.

I finished Cloud Atlas a week or so ago and didn't really like it for that very reason. It wants to be a treatise on society and politics and humanity but in the end reduces it's entire cast to caricature and stereotype. I would rather have a book with a well written and authentic human being who says nothing about "the world" than a biblical treatise on existence populated only by icons and symbols.

EDIT: faaaaarrrrrrrtttttttt

# ¿ Jan 17, 2015 21:16

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Stravinsky posted:

A lot of contemporary books have really naive protagonists whose world view is proven wrong or incomplete because it is largely black and white by some small event that they can not understand could happen to them. There is no reasoning behind why these bad things are happening to them like how 19th or 20th century protagonists would usually reason it out it just happens and they do not know why and so they mope and leak body fluids until they have some sort of revelation or come to peace with it and nothing ever really happens.

examples? I legitimately cannot think of anything off the top of my head that matches this description.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 15:32

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

ulvir posted:

should I go with Name of the Rose or History of the Siege of Lisbon next, real lit thread?

The answer is always Saramago and then more Saramago

# ¿ Jan 19, 2015 17:29

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

I just got done reading Binary Star by Sarah Gerard and holy poo poo its really, really good. I picked it up because I liked the cover and it had reviews from writers I like, but I was kind of worried because the back cover synopsis makes it sound really hoaky.

Its one of the best written books in a long time for me, just simply beautiful awesome prose.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2015 18:50

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

After such successes as Juneteenth and Neon Bible how could this be anything but a great read

# ¿ Feb 4, 2015 20:25

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Not sure if I would call it his greatest but I think his best is The Crossing.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 20:55

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Best first line is "Incredible the animal that first dreamed of another animal" and I will fight people on this

# ¿ Feb 18, 2015 17:22

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Burning Rain posted:

For this thread, there's no competition: "I gently caress babies"

This book seems like a competently constructed version of those weird "rear end nazis from faggotsville" books that pop up on Amazon

# ¿ Feb 18, 2015 18:25

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Who the hell orders off amazon

If you don't buy your books from a physical independent bookstore, clutch the hardback with your hands, and pay with paper money I doubt your seriousness as a reader.

# ¿ Feb 18, 2015 21:57

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Effectronica posted:

Real men get them from yard/estate/library sales

I got my Mann and Hesse collections started that way.

That's great if you are a scavenger of literature seeking the already dessicated carcass of overanalyzed "classic" texts but us real reader prefer to discover great fiction before it has been certified by the lethargic hand of academia

# ¿ Feb 18, 2015 22:09

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Boatswain posted:

Also, make sure to get an uncensored translation so that you don't miss out on how gay philosophy was.

The Greeks? Surely you jest!

# ¿ Feb 20, 2015 15:57

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Mr. Squishy posted:

I've not to read Brothers K so maybe that too.

That's by David James Duncan though

:v:

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 03:05

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

blue squares posted:

I've just started Junot Diaz's The Brief and Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao and it's the first book in a while that has grabbed me from page one. I keep getting into books and just not caring, but I think this one is going to be special.

There is a lot of weird disdain for that book in some critical circles but I really do think its incredible

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 21:30

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

With poetry I tend to opt for closer to context than to style in terms of translations

I think with, for example, Dante its more important to see what he was writing than to see someone mangle it so they can recreate the tercets.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 20:17

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Smoking Crow posted:

HW�T, WE GAR-DEna in geardagum,
�eodcyninga �rym gefrunon,
hu �a ��elingas ellen fremedon!
oft Scyld Scefing scea�ena �reatum,
monegum m�g�um meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas, sy��an�rest wear�
feasceaft funden; he ��s frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum weor�myndum �ah,
o� ��t him �ghwylc ymbsittendra
ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan; ��t w�s god cyning!
��m eafera w�s �fter cenned
geong in geardum, �one God sende
folce to frofre; fyren�earfe ongeat,
�e hie �r drugon aldorlease
lange hwile; him ��s Liffrea,
wuldres Wealdend woroldare forgeaf,
Beowulf w�s breme --- bl�d wide sprang---
Scyldes eafera Scedelandum in.
Swa sceal geong guma gode gewyrcean,
fromum feohgiftumon f�der bearme,

just give me a week and I got this

# ¿ Mar 7, 2015 01:10

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I realize y'all are giving me poo poo but seriously with a good handbook and some audio tapes you do. The grammar is fundamentally pretty similar and there are only like a few thousand total known Old English words, most of them with modern derivatives, so it's genuinely not that hard. Honestly the most difficult part is learning what letters all the little runes stand for. After that it's a week or so of studying vocab, a few hours of listening to tapes so you have the pronunciations right, and you're golden.

Its just amusing to me because I use Beowulf in my ESL classroom as an example of why English is a stupid language

# ¿ Mar 7, 2015 09:01

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Boatswain posted:

How difficult is it for native English speakers to learn German? To you find it harder than French/Italian or is it about the same?

I don't have a lot of experience with either but its difficult to compare the two because English borrows from romance and germanic languages in different ways so each has its own benefits and difficulties.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2015 17:08

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

If you are going to learn a language just for ancient texts quit being a bitch and learn Chinese at least

# ¿ Mar 8, 2015 22:36

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

I love that China has four classic novels and three of them are about huge wars and people kicking rear end and the last one is about a goon

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 01:18

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Speaking of classic war texts the T�in B� C�ailnge doesn't give enough love

Just a massive war fought by a single man who transforms into a mangled mass of tearing flesh on behalf of the men of his village who are simultaneously suffering labor pains against a rival army that stole their prized bull for the sake of their queen who ends up dripping period blood into a hole and killing every living thing in the field.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 01:21

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

The ending of every modern translation of the T�in B� C�ailnge should just end with "The Arisocrats!"

# ¿ Mar 9, 2015 01:22

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

About a third of the way in, once they get on the ship. The gaybro first third was my favorite part of the book though.

Yeah the first 100 pages is great but the next 500 is useless bullshit about whale assholes

# ¿ Mar 11, 2015 17:54

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Derrida is very readable if you're schizophrenic

# ¿ Mar 12, 2015 20:18

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Oh Sartre is brilliant but I don't find him as useful. Like, Camus has legitimately helped friends of mine deal with depression and constructively deal with suicidal tendencies.

the irony being that Camus committed suicide

# ¿ Mar 13, 2015 02:39

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

No he didn't? He was killed in a car crash? Am I missing a joke?

I always heard it suggested he might have done it deliberately but now I see he was not even driving so just ignore me

# ¿ Mar 13, 2015 03:02

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 07:52

Mel Mudkiper: Jan 19, 2012; At this point, Mudman abruptly ends the conversation. He usually insists on the last word.

Also if we are taking about author deaths, everyone always talks about Oscar Wilde's last words, but Henrik Ibsen to me always had the best death joke

# ¿ Mar 13, 2015 03:08

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