Microsoft is a top-notch company developing top-notch products

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Microsoft is a top-notch company developing top-notch products

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

cremnob posted:

ur not gonna get a better microsoft OP than that paul thurrott post

the one where he takes the technical men aside and says "dudes, i gotta say, even i can tell windows 8 os is a pos"?

# ¿ Jun 23, 2014 01:29

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 13:31

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

he was. and then he posted this (emphasis mine)

http://winsupersite.com/windows-8/what-heck-happening-windows

Paul Thurrott posted:

When critics described Windows 8.1 as a step backwards, I disagreed: Responding to customer complaints is never wrong, I argued, and the new version of the OS made it more acceptable on the many different types of PCs and devices on which Windows now runs. With Update 1, however, I'm beginning to question the validity of this new direction, and am now wondering whether Microsoft has simply fallen into an all-too-familiar trap of trying to please everyone, and creating a product that is ultimately not ideal for anyone.

If you look back over the decades at the many high-level complaints that have been leveled at Windows, one in particular sticks out: Unlike Mac OS, in particular, Windows has always attempted to satisfy every possible customer need, and as such it often provides multiple ways to accomplish the same thing. The result is a messy product, if you will, one that lacks the singular vision that is typically associated with the Mac and Apple's other products.

There's no reason to mince words: This criticism has always been valid. And if you were to simplify the issue down to a sound bite, you might make the following claims: Windows was designed by a committee. The Mac, by contrast, often feels like it was designed by a single person.

I sort of excused this reality in the past by noting that Microsoft with Windows targeted a much bigger and more diverse audience than did Apple with the Mac. (This is what made those "I'm a PC" advertisements seem so appropriate and correct.) But with Apple's iOS now hitting Windows-style usage and audience diversity levels, this excuse is getting harder to sell. Apple, despite its ever-growing iOS audience, has never veered from its singular vision, and that's even more notable when you consider that the creator of that vision, Steve Jobs, passed away over two years ago.

God knows, Microsoft tries. It's a wonderful observer and follower. After watching Windows Vista get mismanaged and then slapped around by Apple, it tapped Steven Sinofsky to reimagine Windows. It's fair to say that this man shares many of the same character traits�and flaws�that defined Steve Jobs. He was belligerent and one-sided, didn't work well with others, had no qualms about tossing out features and technologies that didn't originate with his group, and had absolutely zero respect for customer feedback. Here, finally, was a guy who could push through a Steve Jobs-style, singular product vision.

And he did. Sadly, the result was Windows 8.

The reason this happened is that while Sinofsky had the maniacal power and force of will of a Steve Jobs, he lacked Jobs' best gift: An innate understanding of good design. Windows 8 is not well-designed. It's a mess. But Windows 8 is a bigger problem than that. Windows 8 is a disaster in every sense of the word.

This is not open to debate, is not part of some cute imaginary world where everyone's opinion is equally valid or whatever. Windows 8 is a disaster. Period.

While some Windows backers took a wait-and-see approach and openly criticized me for being honest about this, I had found out from internal sources immediately that the product was doomed from the get-go, feared and ignored by customers, partners and other groups in Microsoft alike. Windows 8 was such a disaster that Steven Sinofsky was ejected from the company and his team of lieutenants was removed from Windows in a cyclone of change that triggered a reorganization of the entire company. Even Sinofsky's benefactor, Microsoft's then-CEO Steve Ballmer, was removed from office. Why did all this happen? Because together, these people set the company and Windows back by years and have perhaps destroyed what was once the most successful software franchise of all time.

The specifics of what's wrong in Windows 8 don't really matter, and of course we've discussed this issue many times. Certainly, some of it isn't even Microsoft's fault: The personal computing market is moving on. But at a high level, the Sinofsky era was of course a reaction to what came before. Likewise, what's happening post-Sinofsky is another reaction, this time to what happened during his tenure. And while Windows 8.1 could be seen as an overdue nod to responding to customer feedback again, what's happened since then, and can be seen more clearly in Windows 8.1 Update 1, is ... troubling.

To be clear, Windows 8.1 Update 1 is not exactly an earth-shattering update, and while it brings many small changes to Windows, it likewise doesn't add any major new features. Windows 7 and 8 represented what the Windows team could deliver in three years, and Windows 8.1 is what they can do in a year. Update 1? That's about three months' worth of work, tops.

The problem with Update 1 isn't in any single small functional addition. It's in the strategic direction that this update implies. You may recall that I previously described Windows 8.1 as an apology, a way to fix Windows as much as possible in one year, and make the Metro environment more hospitable to tablet users (fewer trips to the desktop and Control Panel) and make the desktop more hospitable to traditional PC users (fewer reasons to visit the Metro side of the fence). In that sense, Windows 8.1 is "successful," but only within the confines of the madness of its predecessor. It doesn't do a thing to address the fact that Windows isn't a single OS. It's two of them, mobile and desktop, fused together unnaturally like a Frankenstein's monster.

So what does Update 1 add to the mix? This time around, Microsoft has committed what I consider to be the cardinal sin of Windows: It's a return to that age-old issue where Windows simply grew, spaghetti-like, to accommodate every silly possible need of the system's too diverse user group. Now, there are multiple ways to do different things in Metro, too. This previously consistent environment�like it or loathe it�has finally been put under the committee's knife.

Now, some people will see this as "choice," because these changes�desktop-like context menus in the Start screen, a desktop-like title bar in Metro apps, and so on�will somehow make the system more consistent for them, because they still use traditional PCs. But here's the thing. This mobile environment worked just fine with mouse and keyboard in Windows 8.0 and 8.1, and it was consistent with the touch-based interactions for which the environment was designed. Now? It's a mess.

Windows 8.1 Update 1 again proves that design by committee never works, and that by not strictly adhering to a singular product vision, the solution that is extruded out to customers on the other side is messy, convoluted, and compromised. Say what you will about Sinofsky, but Windows 8 was his baby. I can assure you that no one in Microsoft is particularly eager to claim this mess as their own. And Sinofsky must be beside himself with rage at what they've done to destroy what he created. More isn't always better. Sometimes, it's just ... more.

Ugh.

I do have some advice for the Windows team. And it's as obvious as it is necessary.

I always accepted the messy bits of Windows in the past because the system addressed such a large audience. But given the way things are going, Windows should evolve into a system that is laser targeted to the customers who will in fact continue using it regularly. That's mostly business users, but even when you look at the consumers who will use Windows, that usage is almost entirely productivity related. Windows should focus on that. On getting work done. On an audience of doers. Job one should be productivity.

Everyone likes to compare Apple or the Mac to BMW and, you know what? Fair enough, and if that's true then Windows is obviously GM, the overly-big messy GM of a decade ago. But Microsoft can't afford for Windows to be like GM anymore�just like GM couldn't, for whatever that's worth. Maybe Windows needs to be more like GMC, the part of GM that only makes trucks (and truck-based SUVs). After all, while many people choose to use a truck for basic transportation, they're really designed and optimized for work. You know, as should be Windows.

You can't please everybody, Microsoft. So stop trying. It's time to double down on the people who actually use your products, not some mythical group of consumers who will never stop using their simpler Android and iOS devices just because you wish they would.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2014 01:57

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

PurdWerfect posted:

81u1 is great

I'm waiting for 8.1u1v1sp1 at least. i'll consider rc1 of it, though.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2014 13:51

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Scott Forstall posted:

lol

Reminder that "lumia" means "prostitute" in colloquial Spanish

# ¿ Jun 29, 2014 22:41

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Miley Virus posted:

are there any words that aren't swears in spanish

Not really. MS used some weird terms for gender choice in a profile creator in the lone spanish edition of an old version of Windows (i think 95?). it was ok in spain but in parts of central america like nicaragua the gender choice was basically "man/bitch".

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 13:00

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

prefect posted:

i just wanted to allude to the fact that i knew the word "gateau"

# ¿ Jul 1, 2014 14:22

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

BangersInMyKnickers posted:

start the ISP/cell network, timb

jesus, the department of defense has 11 or 12 of them! They alone have more than 4% of the entire internet's IP address allocation, goddamn.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2014 13:27

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

hobbesmaster posted:

the internet was supposed to be a way to transfer documents between military installations so that makes sense. also why big defense contractors have class As

ahh yes, that's right. forgot about this :shobon:

# ¿ Jul 2, 2014 15:36

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

homo punching bag posted:

im still waiting for cool cyber laser night club coffee houses where me and my h4ck3r friends can hack into the banks w/rollerblades on

i'm waiting for the fully-rendered CGI viruses and the OS i control like DOOM with an orbz controller

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 13:43

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

microsoft: unable to handle the customer load for a service the original company gives away for free

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 15:47

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

pseudorandom name posted:

all you have to do is journey far into the frozen Alaskan or Canadian wasteland and you too can escape your corporate masters

this is truth (but bring a satellite phone just in case). my dad goes on hunting trips to remote-as-gently caress places. to give an idea of how remote, he went on one in early september 2001 and didn't find out about 9/11 until like 3 weeks after it happened

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 19:20

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Fabricated posted:

I seem to vaguely remember not being able to use a Win7 Ultimate image to install Win7 Pro/Home/etc

Too many people were installing the wrong version of Vista without a product key and wasting MS support's time so they put a file on every windows 7 dvd called ei.cfg which locks it to a specific version. If you delete that file it will give you a menu when you try to install it giving you the ability to choose your windows sku

# ¿ Jul 24, 2014 17:45

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Shaggar posted:

so turns out there is no Canadian English keyboard so turning on Canadian mode anywhere in your os means French Canadian

the worst is there are three different french keyboard layouts and the default one they give you is like only on old-as-poo poo ps2 lenovo keyboards

and they're not the same as the european french azerty layout but all french pc games assume you're using azerty so they bind the movement keys to zqsd

Shinku ABOOKEN posted:

whats the proper shape of the enter key?

# ¿ Jul 29, 2014 20:32

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

anthonypants posted:

the bank that i work for is super pissy that the ancient version of the banking applications aren't fully supported in windows 7 so instead of upgrading, we're moving away from that vendor to another one. lol

the bank i used to work for upgraded to windows 7...from windows 2000. some of the hackjobs they needed to make everything work included paying for vmware thinapp to put ie6 "natively" on each computer (so each machine could use ie6 or ie8 as needed)

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 19:37

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

PleasureKevin posted:

i wonder if they just unboxed and repackaged unsold xbox ones for the sans-kinect version

they wouldn't have booted; launch bones require the kinect to be plugged in or they won't update at all; you have to install a firmware update before you're allowed to have the kinect unplugged at all

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 19:18

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

PleasureKevin posted:

that's hilarious, but i imagine they could have mass unboxed, updated, then reboxed them without kinect

not impossible but remember this system requires live connectivity to update (no offline/usb update capability) and probably would have been a colossal pain to do that way

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 19:39

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

pseudorandom name posted:

just because they're not giving offline updates to the general public doesn't mean it can't do it

maybe, but companies have been really antsy about providing that kind of capability since the whole pandora battery malarkey with the psp

microsoft's warranty service centers are a complete shitshow and they leave restore discs and poo poo in systems they send back to customers all the time

i kind of think if it were possible someone would have accidentally ended up with a restoration usb key/disc by now

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 19:44

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:

there is usb update capability though, support were referring people to an online image for the day one patch

are you sure you're not thinking of the ps4?

EDIT just checked, they have a usb diagnostic tool but you still need live connectivity

that being said that probably means they have a way to offline update it behind-the-scenes

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 19:56

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

pseudorandom name posted:

the difference here is that the PSP's security was designed by idiot morons and Microsoft is actually good at this stuff (now)

everyone's security was clown college poo poo up until something like 2005

microsoft's security for the original xbox was literally "maybe if we send the encryption key across the bus fast enough it won't be interceptable" and then some university student with a high-powered device proved that yes it will

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 20:24

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Necc0 posted:

[ASK] me about playing hooky in highschool by discovering their email was just plain smtp with zero authentication

i'm asking. what, did you send your homeroom teacher email as the principal saying "yeah, Necc0 is going to be in hospital for a while so just give him A's in everything, it's cool"

i'm jealous since my school was super-anal and took attendance in every class so hooky was effectively impossible, the only way you could do it was if you brought your parents in on it

# ¿ Aug 1, 2014 20:52

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:

"yall want some garbage? here, here's some garbage for you. windows 95 forever."

"fine by me."

-everyone over 55

# ¿ Aug 6, 2014 13:18

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Nelson MandEULA posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPv8PPl7ANU

i'm the poor sap who has to support every Vista SKU including Home Basic in a corporate environment because of that handshake deal

# ¿ Aug 7, 2014 14:02

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

The Management posted:

Steven B17 "The Embalmer" Balmer

now i want ballmer to become a pro wrestler with this name

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 15:07

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Shinku ABOOKEN posted:

is the msoffice source code modular or is it a monolithic monstrosity?

there was an article i think for windows proper which talked about how enormous an undertaking it was to compile the source for it, like it involved several high-end engineers and systems and i think it even took a few days with really precise coordination

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 20:50

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:

accomplished with vm and screen scrapers bc nobody can figure out a proper way to do it that works

don't post my secret cj'ing techniques

# ¿ Aug 8, 2014 22:23

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

A Pinball Wizard posted:

what

Some picture formats could, if opened with the right program (like, I don't know, explorer.exe), execute arbitrary code. There was a major virus that went around the web a while ago using a long-dead picture standard that could execute coad/load remote sites when it loaded. Lowtax even had to permaban a dude who had the virus in his sig via a 1x1 transparent picture

# ¿ Aug 13, 2014 21:47

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 13:31

univbee: Jun 3, 2004

Pinterest Mom posted:

thankfully microsoft software is much more secure now

Vulnerabilities in Kernel-Mode Drivers Could Allow Elevation of Privilege (2984615)
Published: August 12, 2014

An elevation of privilege vulnerability exists in the way that the affected component handles objects from specially crafted font files. An attacker who successfully exploited this vulnerability could execute arbitrary code with elevated privileges.

-formats c drive-

# ¿ Aug 13, 2014 21:53

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