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Put me in command of either overall or high command of an attacking force because I know what I am doing and I create drama which is good for the thread.
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Jun 26, 2014 06:29
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| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 20:50 |
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New toys available in red thunder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3I1ClIrszc
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Jun 27, 2014 00:49
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Yeah no matter who ends up being the overall commanders picking their forces if you are unsure of something like "can I move this gun" just ask. It is far better than having guys stuck in a gun that is useless for the entire battle when the answer is just to bring a truck. There really is no reason for anyone to be useless because you can always stick some extra teams on any hq. In the event I'm the commander I already pretty much know what I'm mostly going to do and the company commanders will at least get a sniper/mg/etc. to move around. So for the guys that have not really followed combat mission since the last lp, other than flamethrowers some cool new toys are: AAA guns both motorized and towed that actually shoot at planes, the ability to have ammo depots on the map, a company of men that are entirely armed with sub-machine guns (yes they ARE as awesome as they sound), and uh I dunno t34s have canister rounds? I'm sure I'm forgetting something cool.
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Jun 27, 2014 06:01
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Fangz posted:How are the tank costs balanced in this game? The thing that bugged me about the previous game was how the German tanks were only slightly more expensive than the allied ones, creating weird ahistorical setups most of the time. If this game is simulating Bagration, are we going to get anything near to the historical situation of the Soviets having a 10:1 tank numerical superiority to the Germans? Actually what you are describing is bullshit. Generally when the germans won something it is because they had more tanks on that particular field at that particular time, not because they just waded through hordes of tanks all at once. Armor was massed so you would generally either see mostly axis tanks or mostly allied tanks, and when two armored divisions met the one that got more tanks on the field at one time was the one that won. The biggest problem the soviets had early on was actually getting the tanks where they needed to be and would frequently be in a situation where they were locally out numbered even if they had more in the strategic area. The job of a good officer is to get troops where they are needed all at the same time, and it's the main reason the soviet officer purges hurt them so much. It is why Napoleon said amateurs discuss tactics, professionals discuss logistics. That said, to answer your question you will generally see more soviet tanks on the field in a typical game of red thunder, but you will not see 10 t-34-85s for every one Mk.IV. It would make for a lovely game if that were the case.
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Jun 27, 2014 16:41
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Well I grey and the German commander will tell you what you are commanding. The company commanders will tell you where to attack in the battle. I and the German commander will give those company's axes of attack. All of this will be done in the other threads though.
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Jul 1, 2014 23:58
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Comstar posted:Do Red Army Commissar's shoot retreating troops? Do German commanders shoot anyone taking "One Step Back"? No, there are no commissars and you will generally only shoot at the enemy. You can miss, and you can cause friendly fire, but the AI generally just shoots at the enemy and if it doesn't see them it doesn't shoot. This means there is no panic fire. You look at it and it seems bare bones and basic, but there is some sophistication going on under the hood. Every man wants to be connected to the leadership network since it shares information on both enemy and friendly units around that man, because otherwise he has no idea about it. That means a lone man on his own is unaware of anything other than what his eyes can actually see (and the game checks regularly to determine what that is, based on the concealment around him it can take a while for him to see stuff). The game checks this I think once every 8 seconds and it also factors in which way he is facing. The leadership network goes from a man in a squad and flows through the platoon up to the platoon commander. Being in command gives them the added benefit of being more durable morale wise. This network flows up from the platoon commander to the company commanders (hopefully they have radios, otherwise they have to see or hear them shouting, this is modeled to up to 100 meters) and then up to the Battalion commander. So a tank buttoned up (all hatches closed and no one looking around with binoculars) out of command can easily miss an enemy tank that is just 20 feet away if it is not where the guys can see it. Nor can it see the two men sneaking up on it with a prepared anti tank grenade...
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Jul 2, 2014 05:17
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Gamerofthegame posted:So you're saying we should tank rush as a team, then. As a last resort. While you cannot really shoot at your own men, but you can drop artillery on them so if I see any human waves started without my orders I will stop it with high explosives.
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Jul 2, 2014 05:39
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If grey doesn't cover it and I think you need to know it I'll let you know about it in the russian thread. I plan on running things pretty hands off and leave most of it up to the company commanders but if I see something really crazy I will step in. I know grey just runs these things because he gets a chubby when everyone is dancing to his fiddle but I do want people to have a good time and not just give a bunch of waypoint orders for 2 weeks just to end in them dying at the first sight of the enemy (though that will inevitably happen to a few). So when the time comes if you would like me to make a tutorial about something grey has not covered or have a question about the map I will be happy to provide. I do own the game.
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Jul 2, 2014 15:39
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I won again yay!
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Aug 22, 2014 22:33
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They make multiple runs. Sometimes they hit your stuff, and most of the time they hit nothing.
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Aug 25, 2014 18:46
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TonySnow posted:Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous and completely ahistorical, and has the potential to really unbalance the scenario. Hopefully the Russians will get an equal dose of strafing as the Germans do, else the German side could get REALLY hosed up by that many planes. It is by no means ahistorical the soviet air force existed and it attacked german ground targets.
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Sep 1, 2014 21:34
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TonySnow posted:The role of CAS and it's influence on the very forward crust of the battle area is grossly overblown (often by the pilots themselves) across all fronts and for all sides through out the entirety of the war. The value in CAS was always it's ability to affect the fight through interdiction and rear area strikes. Headquarters, truck columns, armor columns, ammo dumps, railyards, artillery positions, etc - those are where CAS made their money. With effectively no way to talk with the aircraft, the troops on the literal front lines (what this scenario represents) were indistinguishable to a plane going 200 mph. Planes have their place in this game - but maybe 1 or 2, not 11 of them. All of that is true but pilots still bombed tanks and destroyed them, they still strafed troops and killed them. Regardless of the outcome of this battle the results will be roughly historical because it happened. Even if most of the time they did other stuff, it still means they did this stuff some of the time. As for "troops on the front lines" bullshit, how do you know this isn't a soviet spearhead into one of those rear areas? You can literally make up any story for this battle, and so long as the game does not model pinpoint airstrikes on the battlefield, which CMRT does not, then it can be called historical even if it can also be called unlikely.
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Sep 2, 2014 00:26
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Magni posted:Well, to be honest, a dozen Pe-2s turning up without bombloads to strafe poo poo with their single .50cal and two rifle-calibre machineguns would be rather unusual. Now on effectiveness, that might be a bit ahistorical as we get quite a tight pattern for the machine guns in this and I feel like a plane diving and shooting light machineguns from 300 to 500 meters up you would get a much greater area of shot dispersement. quote:Pe-2s and IL-2s are the only soviet planes in the game. Both come with strafing or bombing loads. No rockets, I think and I can't remmeber wether PTABs are an option. The IL-2s can have rockets in the game but the pe -2 does not.
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Sep 2, 2014 13:04
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This should be a rather straight forward win for the soviets. The germans have all their infantry up front and with no support from tanks or guns and are generally at the mercy of a combined arms assault by the soviets unless they can get off a coordinated retreat with most of their infantry assets intact. All in a nice line too so they are very vulnerable to artillery. edit: Though the soviets main problem is they REALLY don't have enough infantry to get this job done right so if they start attacking piecemeal they are gonna quickly find that eggshell unbreakable. They really took too many fancy toys but then so did the germans so we will see how it works out. It is always interesting to compare the forces I would have taken vs other people. dtkozl fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 17:23
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Eh I don't so much have a problem with the german list as much as I do with their deployment. The primary objective is to keep the soviets from securing passage over the river, that alone could probably get them a tie. The southern ford could be secured with a platoon and two or three panzershrecks in ambush position with some mgs on the western bank providing support. Those northern bridges could be held with maybe a company and a half and some AT guns if they were set up right but right now this is just a giant mess. It brings a such a smile to my face that I am no longer responsible for trying to unfuck derp and other goon's messes.
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Sep 3, 2014 19:44
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Well the germans can still easily win, this is combat mission the game of bullshit one shot kills and immortal units. I once had a friends sherman survive 3 ambushes with different stugs even though my stugs were within 500 meters and shot first, I've had a t 34 touching a tiger's rear firing ap into it and lose, I've seen things you cannot possibly imagine and wonders innumerable.
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Sep 5, 2014 19:21
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"Breakthrough" and "flanking" are concepts that apply to levels above the one cm simulates. All breakthrough does in this game is present your rear end to the swinging turret of a tiger II tank. There are no rear areas or lines of supply to disrupt. The biggest issue the germans are going to have to get a clean enough break in the south with the soviet elements there to reposition enough troops to stop them from marching over those northern fields and taking the first objective. It shouldn't be difficult if they remain calm and coordinated, but I have a feeling that is asking a bit too much. The soviet attack will be fun to watch because with all that said the soviets are going to have to coordinate well this attack in the north as they blew a lot of points on bullshit and don't really have the numbers to waste on a failed initial engagement. dtkozl fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 18:09
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Grey in the soviet video when you do a close up on the tank it is just a black screen, then it pops back to normal at about 3:05.
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Sep 13, 2014 15:43
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The germans have to kill more than 2 soviet tanks per loss if they want to win this map. I don't think grey looked at the systems damage either, that tank could very well be useless even if they get to recrew it. Tank combat in this game can be tricky because you got to be hyper aware of how best to use german armor to really get the most out of them. They have much better optics and can reliably kill from much farther away than allied tanks, but it looks like the germans going for short range ambushes. If you are willing to take a few casulties it is pretty easy to just rush them at that point. Those optics also only work in game when the weather is clear and the time is generally mid day, so depending on the conditions grey set they might not even get the benefit.
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Sep 13, 2014 20:56
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Grey what do you use to record turns? A guy I'm playing wants to know what program is best.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:38
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Yeah I was REALLY trying to get my guys to skip some of the stuff like arcs or complicated move commands when I was high command for exactly that reason. You can't really know what is going on with grey playing and most of them have never played the game to begin with so they are ignorant of how spotting and firing works in the game. After a week of passively aggressively going "guuuuuys stop and listen to me" you pretty much just leave it. If I had the power to kill commanders there would have been a couple in the firing squad.
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Sep 19, 2014 17:29
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This is precisely one of those things that separates combat mission from other strategy games like starcraft or homeworld or whatever. Scouting pretty much depends on you taking casualties, you need to put something out there juicy enough for the enemy to shoot at, while at the same time having enough stuff out there to survive long enough to accurately spot it. Since all they have is big armor and a sprinkling of infantry they are going to be hard pressed to make the right tactical decisions.
dtkozl fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 06:03
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I really think Grey should force chain of command, it would resolve many of these issues. I've commanded two of these things and each time I go in loving it and come out hating everyone and everything.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:35
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Is this on iron?
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Oct 28, 2014 06:46
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I really don't think any attacker would have won with a map that big and things as chaotic as they were, the thing with CM is keeping up the command network is the number 1 thing that wins you games. The map should have been smaller and the difficulty should have been set much lower. That said, the russian side picked a really poor list. You basically had no room for error in terms of infantry and tanks, two to one in attacking just doesn't cut it generally. How do you take out those heavy machine guns? Lose a platoon and charge it with 2 more. Then do it again and again until you take the first town. Smoke the long range guns and tanks and gun the gauntlet with your own, because at the ranges you were trying to engage those big cats have all the advantages, russian tanks need to be under 1000 meters and even then you rush something with two tanks because you are going to lose one. Having 50% more stuff and the goons to command it would probably have been untenable, but it was necessary.
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Nov 1, 2014 04:39
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When I did the first game I was really unsure of how much data to give everyone because I owned the game and I didn't know what resources the other side had and I didn't want to game the system. That's why I did what I did of take 10 screen shots of stuff and pretend like I took photos, I figured that would be a good way to stay within the spirit of the thing and not game the system. Really what we need to do is have both sides hash it out and leave grey out of it entirely (to lighten his load). Since at least one person on each side will own the game they both will have access to the same resources, we just put in a gentleman's agreement to say, "be able to take 10 screen shots at 2 points during the game" as an example. We can really just make a rule for anything but the fewer the better. I thought a game would be interesting where we try and mirror the decision types of the soviets/wehrmacht. So the soviet side commander would write up super detailed orders for each company and they would carry them out to the best of their ability (get to map point X at time Y, proceed at time Z to point A, etc.) and them leave them at that and only really respond to requests for artillery or reinforcements but be himself unable to alter the orders. The german team would just give general orders with teams in integrated infantry and armor, with perhaps a few panthers or something roaming around that have total independent control to say hunt for russian armor.
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Nov 1, 2014 20:26
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Valiantman posted:After playing this format first in the smaller engagement on company level and now defending on platoon level, I have to disagree on the screenshots. The reason is mostly long range combat and, to a lesser degree, player enjoyment. Tanks are so dangerous and so huge investments that you need to be able to both use them effectively and counter them effectively. Ditto for machine guns and infantry, although they're cheaper. I wasn't implying that my one example is the way it should be done, but to open debate on what the two sides should do concerning game intel just to be clear. To respond specifically, I agree with you that 20 odd photos alone are probably going to please no one. Throw in an elevation map though and I think an arbitrary number of photos would do the trick, combined with the thought that the initial commander (or at least an XO) has the game and can scout out initial gun positions on his own before the game starts. You are never going to have a perfect system for los, because even with only you playing the game there are times when you get surprised that your tank can't see something because of the top of a wayward tree or bush. As for your scouts, there are a lot of different levels of cover in cm. Visually they are not that distinct and it can be very hard to tell how far you can see in one patch of woods compared to another. It is going to to impossible for people to tell how far they can see in any given wood unless someone opens the game and puts some infantry in there to test it out. Grey wont and shouldn't have to check every little thing for los, there is going to have to be some built in fuzziness in this part of the game. Again, this should be something the commander does at the start in preparing for a game. People should start with a map that has contours, wood thickness, house sizes, fords/bridges, and whatever other terrain could be a factor. dtkozl fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Nov 1, 2014 |
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Nov 1, 2014 21:30
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Dark_Swordmaster posted:NEVER city. It's just a grid of modular buildings, it's not interesting, it runs like poo poo, it's all-around badbadbad. They don't have to be a simple grid, just the bad maps. City fights are BRUTAL though and the best part of the market garden expansion is letting the brit para's loose in Arnhem, each man with a smg. I mean, does this look like a simple grid? 
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Nov 2, 2014 03:15
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I'm interested. I have shock force + all the modules, cm normandy at 3.0, cmfi at 3.0 with gustave line, and cmrt. I'm willing to do pretty much anything, and also if anyone just wants to do a pbem hit me up.
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Nov 3, 2014 19:03
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You're gonna have to give the goons some advantages because it will be way to easy to win vs goons.
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Nov 4, 2014 04:47
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