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Leb posted:So, yeah, they've said they're not interested in exploring the central mystery of the show but rather the impact that mystery has on the people who are left behind. Fine, good. Where I run into some trouble, however, is when the pilot goes and introduces some increasingly fantastical elements that seem to be adding additional layers of mystery on top of the original mystery; all the while, we're being told by the show's creators, from the outset, that we shouldn't be focusing on these mysteries and that these mysteries will never be resolved.
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Jun 30, 2014 08:14
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Sober posted:What was in the pilot that seemed fantastical to you, exactly? Well, primarily his dream of striking a deer with his car, from which he awakes to discover that a deer destroyed his kitchen; then, later that evening, he almost strikes a deer with his car and moments later, that deer gets taken down by a pack of feral dogs which appear out of nowhere.
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Jun 30, 2014 08:28
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Leb posted:So, yeah, they've said they're not interested in exploring the central mystery of the show but rather the impact that mystery has on the people who are left behind. Fine, good. Where I run into some trouble, however, is when the pilot goes and introduces some increasingly fantastical elements that seem to be adding additional layers of mystery on top of the original mystery; all the while, we're being told by the show's creators, from the outset, that we shouldn't be focusing on these mysteries and that these mysteries will never be resolved. I can see feeling like you're being suckered into a Lost-type situation where mysteries keep stacking up on top of each other and no one is bothering to dispel the notion that some resolution might be right around the corner. However, I don't think that's what this show will end up doing. There will some initial mysteries, some ambiguity regarding how much divine or supernatural forces are at work to set the stage, but then the character drama will take over. If not, then your criticism will be valid, in that they will then be guilty of trying to have their cake and eat it to - i.e. concocting lots of ambiguous mysteriousness while simultaneously shrugging off any narrative responsibility for addressing it. Optimistically, I'm going to assume that's not their intention. Even if Lindelof is involved and has some past tendencies to take such narrative liberties in the name of 'characterization', the book's author is also involved and the book didn't fall into this particular trap. Ambiguity, yes; but not excessive and not at the expense of trivializing the characters' developments.
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Jun 30, 2014 08:34
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Leb posted:Well, primarily his dream of striking a deer with his car, from which he awakes to discover that a deer destroyed his kitchen This part didn't strike me as odd at all, sometimes if I'm deep enough in a dream and I hear something in the real world I'll end up warping the dream to accommodate the audio I'm hearing. Personally I took the final scene to be a metaphorical repetition of the melee between the townspeople and the cult, reinforcing the image of his being caught between this mysterious, eerie, and possibly beautiful thing and the world that wants to destroy it. That he chose to shoot at the dogs (even if it was far too late) may foreshadow an important decision he'll make later.
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Jun 30, 2014 09:29
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Jean Eric Burn posted:The actors and actresses in this are so generically LL Bean model attractive Guys I got TVIV bingo I think
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Jun 30, 2014 12:02
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At the party, what was with the two naked guys, one in a tub, and one sitting on the floor of the bathroom? Unless I'm mistaken, they almost looked like twins, which kind of amplified the oddness of everything going on.
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Jun 30, 2014 12:06
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Tomahawk posted:Guys I got TVIV bingo I think Impossible, nobody's made an Aatrek joke yet  I liked it. I'm really happy to see Paterson Joseph on HBO so I'm going to stick around for that if nothing else. I also liked the two brothers. I really hope they make more of an effort to establish names because I have no clue who any of these people are.
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Jun 30, 2014 12:16
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Fuligin posted:I dunno I thought it was pretty good. It seems like it's intentionally going for a slower, melancholic pace, and that's fine by me. Also a feeling of disorientation is kind of the point. But yeah gently caress stupid moody "teen" storyline, it was the worst part of the pilot by far. I'm not optimistic about Liv Tyler either but I guess we'll see. The thing I noticed and actually really appreciated is that there was never a moment where the creators left us hanging with some stupid tease about what's really going on. There is no indication that anyone knows anything, and it looks like it's going to stay that way, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
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Jun 30, 2014 12:38
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I don't trust the intentions of anyone in this show. I don't know why, but I think every scene is going to end badly.
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Jun 30, 2014 12:47
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I wouldn't want to live in a world where gummi worms are apparently a scarce contraband.
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Jun 30, 2014 12:56
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Watched this with my roommate last night and we both had a kind of "Huh, interesting?" reaction after, in a good way. We've both been big Lost fans so were interested in seeing Lindelof's new work, and are definitely interested in the premise. I could see it being a bit slow if other episodes are similar to the premiere though; hopefully it picks up a bit and does well.
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Jun 30, 2014 13:00
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Okay, my prediction for this series going off the pilot: it will continue to meander on, generally ignoring its main plot (if it has one), letting petty interpersonal drama become side-plots that swallow up most of the show but lack meaning, only to occasionally realise they haven't mentioned anything about those people disappearing in a while and throwing us a token episode. Eventually, it will either be cancelled or be given a bullshit ending which everyone will hate. I hope that third episode is as good as the reviews made it out to be.
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Jun 30, 2014 13:28
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The first really amazing episode of Lost was the 4th one so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a few episodes to really pick up (but I already think this is great)
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Jun 30, 2014 13:42
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R. Mute posted:Okay, my prediction for this series going off the pilot: it will continue to meander on, generally ignoring its main plot (if it has one), letting petty interpersonal drama become side-plots that swallow up most of the show but lack meaning, only to occasionally realise they haven't mentioned anything about those people disappearing in a while and throwing us a token episode. Eventually, it will either be cancelled or be given a bullshit ending which everyone will hate. I think you're confused, what you think is the sideplot is actually the main plot.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:01
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Sober posted:And the show pretty much explained why his wife left him from the bar scene, and the other quick flashbacks that establish it. Kevin Garvey (the cop) was cheating on his wife, and the woman she was loving got not-raptured away, which is why he freaked the gently caress out/people sort of know that in this smaller town. The son tried to kill himself (jumping off a roof) to possibly join the departed or something (despite his family still all being there; maybe friends I guess). I'm guessing the daughter was too young, father was hosed up/freaking out, mother left because she wanted to be vindictive or whatever, so yeah, I'm not surprised his daughter is moody. That's interesting, I thought the reveal with the cop cheating was just that, but I didn't catch that the women he was loving got taken. That kind of puts him with the feral dogs who all lost it because their owners disappeared in front of them. And his dad who also went crazy. Also, what's with the full tattooed back on the cop? That's some pretty extensive tattooing for a police officer.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:07
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Was pretty mediocre. If the show's however not going to explain or at least allude the why (I suppose to be expected, since I just read the book didn't either), I'm out ahead.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:13
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I do agree with the reviewers that the comedy of the show was lost due to the complete melancholy of the actors. There were some really funny bits in there that fell flat or ignored because everyone is so drat morose. Gary Busey and Shaq getting raptured aside, the cop complaining about calling his brother-in-law a hero because he was a dipshit in real life was pretty funny. I don't think we're ever going to get a reason for the disappearances. I think that can work as a premise as long as the show never pretends to be leading to an answer, and just commits to its ambiguity.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:15
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Rarity posted:I think you're confused, what you think is the sideplot is actually the main plot.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:20
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R. Mute posted:I don't expect a big 'why/where did they go' or 'what happened' plot, I know this is about the characters and how they deal with this strange bizz, but what I'm saying is that it'll stray even from that and become a muddled mess. Eh, maybe. If this wasn't already based on some written material, I would believe that. I do wonder how long they can stretch out one book, though.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:23
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Max posted:Eh, maybe. If this wasn't already based on some written material, I would believe that. I think this is less of a game of thrones literal adaption and more of an under the dome "taking the gist of the story and running with it" adaption. I'm sure they can get a few seasons out of this if it's successful.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:33
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It's kind of like going back to highschool and remembering the goth (or emo if you're younger) kids who demanded to be taken seriously for their deep dark pain:
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Jun 30, 2014 14:33
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AgentHaiTo posted:Also, what's with the full tattooed back on the cop? That's some pretty extensive tattooing for a police officer. I know! Let's have a whole episode about them 
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Jun 30, 2014 14:38
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Considering Lindelofs track record, I have no problem with not explaining the event. However, if they keep adding to that mystery without explaining it, then I will be pissed. They've already started doing this by making some of the people that disappeared seem unworthy of a rapture so we will see.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:46
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bryn987 posted:Considering Lindelofs track record, I have no problem with not explaining the event. However, if they keep adding to that mystery without explaining it, then I will be pissed. They've already started doing this by making some of the people that disappeared seem unworthy of a rapture so we will see.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:52
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I'm intrigued. The pacing was slow but I at least find the characters interesting. I'm on board for a while  Rarity posted:I know! Let's have a whole episode about them 
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Jun 30, 2014 14:54
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Rarity posted:I know! Let's have a whole episode about them ... I'm sure I'll regret posting this soon enough.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:05
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bryn987 posted:Considering Lindelofs track record, I have no problem with not explaining the event. However, if they keep adding to that mystery without explaining it, then I will be pissed. They've already started doing this by making some of the people that disappeared seem unworthy of a rapture so we will see. I actually think that making it random was done to take the air out of the idea that it may be the actual christian rapture. That way you have both science and religion shrugging their shoulders. If they start showing a mysterious man appearing in the cop's dreams and telling him "You gotta go to Boulder" and then tease that out for 4 seasons before going "Gotcha!" then gently caress that. Again, I'm hoping they just commit to the ambiguity and never even bother to explain what happened.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:39
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*massive expository monologue* "You're telling this to me as if I don't already know it!" hahahah come on dude
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Jun 30, 2014 16:23
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I think he felt the mayor was throwing barbs at him because his wife was one of them.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:26
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So wait, did the show's writers/creators explicitly say that they're never going to reveal how or why the people disappeared?
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Jun 30, 2014 16:32
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sd6 posted:So wait, did the show's writers/creators explicitly say that they're never going to reveal how or why the people disappeared? It's Lindelof, of course they're not going to explain anything.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:35
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Dryb posted:I think he felt the mayor was throwing barbs at him because his wife was one of them. Were we supposed to believe that his wife had been raptured, until the reveal at the end? That's how I read it, unless I missed a very obvious visual clue.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:53
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I love that this is BarkWire: The TV Show.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:55
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sd6 posted:So wait, did the show's writers/creators explicitly say that they're never going to reveal how or why the people disappeared? I'm not sure which interview but I'm pretty sure Lindelof specifically did say the disappearance will not be explained. In another interview he sort of did a slight flip flop and said he doesn't want to reveal if it'll be explained or not, because that will effect your viewing of the show and he wants it to speak for itself. Though it's pretty obvious there's no explanation, and I'm fine with that. I can't fathom an explanation to the mystery that wouldn't be lame as gently caress and diminish the entire point of the series and the whole idea of having to grapple with something that has no answer. Put me in the camp of really enjoying this pilot. Enjoyed basically everything about it...even didn't mind the daughter's subplot too much. Very much looking forward to the weeks ahead. Though it's unfortunate how reminiscent the deer subplot is of Hannibal, or maybe that's just because I just recently watched every episode of Hannibal and have it on the mind.
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Jun 30, 2014 16:58
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Max posted:Were we supposed to believe that his wife had been raptured, until the reveal at the end? That's how I read it, unless I missed a very obvious visual clue.
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Jun 30, 2014 17:10
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Sober posted:It was pretty obvious he was cheating on his wife, but up until he visits her at the GR homes, they didn't explicitly tell you. They even purposely framed the shot where he smashes the family photo impossible to read. Although it was weird the daughter took the glass out AFTER her father goes to the mother; could've cut inbetween or put before that scene for shock value, I guess. Yeah, they had that moment where the guy the daughter has to choke says "sorry about your mom" and it read like they wanted you to believe she had been raptured. His hatred of the GR makes more sense looking back on it. I liked the pilot as well. It's interesting to me to see a pilot that doesn't end with a strong plot hook. It feels closer to the way older HBO dramas were constructed.
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Jun 30, 2014 17:26
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Is it confirmed that he was cheating on his wife? I just ran back through that flashback and it's really hard to tell if its his wife or another women. Also of note, his tattoos are present in the flashback, so it's not some post-Departure flagellation or anything - so, yea, probably Phuket.
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Jun 30, 2014 18:05
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By the way, I kind of have to admire the balls on Lindelof to adapt a book where the premise is "a mysterious thing happens and we're never going to get an answer to it" given how much people hated him after Lost for that exact reason. I'm already seeing speculation online with theories about alien abduction and all that, and when this show ends with no reveal about the departure, people are going to have the exact same violent reaction towards Lindelof that they did 4 years ago. I have to admire him for being interested in this project and pursuing it because he believes in it, all the while knowing for a fact that he's going to have to go through poo poo from fans all over again.
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Jun 30, 2014 18:12
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Sober posted:It was pretty obvious he was cheating on his wife, but up until he visits her at the GR homes, they didn't explicitly tell you. They even purposely framed the shot where he smashes the family photo impossible to read. Although it was weird the daughter took the glass out AFTER her father goes to the mother; could've cut inbetween or put before that scene for shock value, I guess. I thought it was obvious after the scene where the mum watches her daughter play hockey. When they made it into a reveal at the end I was really confused cause I thought we were meant to know that already.
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Jun 30, 2014 18:13
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Mr. Boogie posted:By the way, I kind of have to admire the balls on Lindelof to adapt a book where the premise is "a mysterious thing happens and we're never going to get an answer to it" given how much people hated him after Lost for that exact reason. I'm already seeing speculation online with theories about alien abduction and all that, and when this show ends with no reveal about the departure, people are going to have the exact same violent reaction towards Lindelof that they did 4 years ago. I have to admire him for being interested in this project and pursuing it because he believes in it, all the while knowing for a fact that he's going to have to go through poo poo from fans all over again. Hopefully the difference between the two shows is that this one doesn't make the audience think that answers are out there. Lost pulled some real BS maneuvering by implying there was an answer and we were going to eventually arriving at it before pivoting and going "Sorry, this is how the real world works, sucks that you built up your expectations." If this show doesn't pull that, I think it could be really interesting. Placing the show in a small town with limited resources sort of solves this problem as well. I can imagine a story about some plucky hero who is valiantly solving the case as we speak, but we'll never see that since these people are stuck in a tiny town and have their own personal concerns.
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Jun 30, 2014 18:21
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