Doping in Sport

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > Doping in Sport

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Detroit_Dogg posted:

No mixed martial artist has ever used performance enhancing substances.

They're abusing the hell out of Tramadol, which while not illegal yet, is very dodgy.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2014 19:14

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 07:44

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Vando posted:

Ah yes it's because of the courts they play on that matches are ridiculous marathons now, very good nothing to see here no sir

I read somewhere that the average point of tennis has increased from 4 shots to 11.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2014 20:45

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

EvanTH posted:

I don't care at all about doping because it's not cheating in the slightest, it's little more than a modification of one's diet which is completely acceptable under any current imagining.

The idea that there's some innate "fairness" in sports because of equally applicable rules is wrong in the first place. People are born with varying body chemistries and that's not cheating. People are born with different heights and speeds and coordinations and intelligences and it's not cheating. It's currently legal for an already-rich athlete to spend thousands a day on a team of trainers and nutritionists to trick their bodies legally into producing more of the useful athletic chemicals and that's not at all cheating, but it's Profoundly Unethical for someone who's trying to earn a contract, a deal that could fundamentally change their entire family's lives for the better, to take a supplement that could increase their performance, it's not okay if it's from Column A instead of Column B? If someone thought their family's ability to thrive was on the line then they'd be something of a coward not to risk it.

Naturally I don't believe athletes should be sacrificing their health to play a sport, but if that's the reason you want to make something illegal than go ahead and make contact sports illegal (obviously don't do this).

What difference does it make to the viewer? They get to see more home runs, more dunks, more 150mph serves, and it makes no difference whatsoever if that athlete was simply born with a rare combination of genes that gives them slightly more testosterone rather than took a pill along with their 50000 hours a day training regimen?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with doping aside from the increased risk athletes put themselves at through modifying their body chemistry, and people who are trying to ban PEDs would be disingenuous to claim that that was their aim.

It's an element of a training regimen, it has nothing to do with the actions taken on the court/field/pitch and shouldn't be considered cheating.

You think there's some situation where an athlete starts dominating the sport while sitting on a couch for training because they popped the perfect pill? Excellence in athletics will always require an excessive amount of work and dedication regardless of PEDs.

This is quite possibly one of the most awful, uneducated posts about doping I have ever seen. Your stance is 'well genetics arent fair so people should be able to take pills. Except the pills aren't 'fair' either. Everyone reacts differently too them. If you legitimately think turning your blood so thick you have to wake up every 2 hours and exercise so you dont die of a heart attack is fine, then theres something wrong with you.

And yes, there was a pill that caused up to a 68% increase in stamina in mice without any extra work. It also caused rapid, massive cancerous tumour growth too.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2014 07:52

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

WEREWAIF posted:

There was a big ESPN the magazine poll of NFL players, and one of the questions was "How many players are doping" and the answer was like 25-30%. Even assuming large understatement, that means that less than half of players are doing what they consider to be illegal doping. I think it's fair to stretch that for most American team sports.

Endurance sports like cycling are totally different, but there are plenty of riders who don't use anything.

Even in the glory days of amphetamines in baseball, use wasn't 100%.

Where is it 100%? World's Strongest Man, Mr Olympia, sports that are only about muscles.

A widely regarded opinion is that most athletes on teams have no loving clue what the doctors are giving them and if they're illegal. A great example of that was an interview with Gary Neville about England in Euro 96. They had a Doctor that would come round and give them 'vitamin' injections.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 10:07

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Do you legitimately not realise that not being exhausted from playing 90 games a season due to steroid recovery abuse makes you able to not only be physically stronger for longer, but also not mentally exhausted too, and does, infact, make you hit more home runs.

Or are you just trolling.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 10:38

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Mornacale posted:

Oh, well, I guess I just didn't realize that the single factor that goes into hitting a home run was fatigue, I thought that baseball swings were a complex mechanical system where small changes can have any number of effects. In that case it's probably reasonable to make inspecific claims based on "common sense" guesswork in lieu of any kind of data.

This poster doesn't understand that being able to train longer and harder is of any benefit to competitive sports.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 11:51

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Charlotte Hornets posted:

Can you do doping if you have a medical condition that can only be relieved by drugs classified as banned performance enhancers?

If you had such a condition that something like EPO would relieve it, you would probably not be able to get insured to compete in professional sports.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 13:09

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Mornacale posted:

Yes, in fact it recently came out that Alex Rodriguez had a therapeutic use exemption at one point, making it even more hilarious that MLB decided to throw him under the bus.

By the way, still waiting on folks to tell me how many extra home runs Magic Dinger Juice makes you hit. Surely this should be an easy task, since we're not just basing our opinions on uninformed kneejerk analysis itt.

If you're legitimately too thick to make the connection from being able to train harder and recover faster, and how that leads to being better at doing something, I don't think you should be posting in here any more since you're clearly trolling at this point.

I suppose you think Armstrong was innocent too since you cant put a physical number on how many extra miles he could do due to the magic cycle juice.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 13:48

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

stickyfngrdboy posted:

Are you loving kidding me? Do you even know what steroids do or are you just being ridiculous because your sport is under fire for being full of cheats?

He seems to think that all PED's do are give you massive gently caress off muscles which couldnt be further from the truth.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 14:42

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

If PEDS were pointless is making people better at baseball. Why did they take them?

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 15:49

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

tbp posted:

To the doctor in the thread: does long term abuse of PEDs necessitate life-long mitigation thereafter? Someone mentioned in the thread earlier "low t therapy", is this always the case?

Also, does blood doping have many long term effects? Is that what caused the "cyclists awake at 2AM" thing?

Excessive EPO use made cyclists blood so thick with red blood cells that they could not maintain a low resting heart attack without serious threat of cardiac arrest. They had to set alarms every few hours to wake up and exercise to increase their heart rates to 70+.

Their blood was literally syrup.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 15:54

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Please stop replying to the concern troll.

Lets get this thread back onto the good track it was. There are some super hardcore insane performance stuff knocking around at the moment. The widely documented product that gave people an almost 60% better rate of stamina without any extra training has been mentioned, with the caveat of rapid cancerous tumour growths throughout your entire body.

However there are others out there, I'd like to know more about them.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 17:23

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Jordan7hm posted:

He's pretty much trolling (or at least playing extreme devil's advocate). There isn't any good way to quantify just what impact PEDs have on elite level athletes though, because nobody publishes actual results (for obvious reasons). Instead we get anecdotes and studies that test drugs out on athletes (or just regular individuals) who are far below elite level.

So maybe the drugs are worth 5 homers or maybe they're worth 30. Who knows?

Cycling has been pretty open with displaying the power readings for dopers compared to 'clean*' riders. After the big busts in the 90's you saw times tumble throughout the peloton to the point that its taken nearly 15 years to even get close again through 'marginal* gains'.

To be honest, if you get caught pissing hot, you should be banned for life. I dont give a flying gently caress that Contador is favourite to win the Tour De France this year because hes been banned for doping, and him taking 2 years off from the sport wont change the fact the doping has permanently changed his v02 max.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 22:49

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Anything from the late 80's to the end of the 90's needs a massive asterix next to it in my opinion. There was just no way to test for the stuff on the market at the time.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 22:53

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

vaginal culture posted:

Earlier than that, steroids and blood transfusions have been around since the 70's at least.

They were massive in the body building scene, but how prevalent were they in sports culture? I was always of the opinion that they didnt really infect the pro sports world outside of the endurance and strength disciplines until the 80's.

# ¿ Jul 3, 2014 23:11

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

WEREWAIF posted:

And yet millions of people take them without experiencing serious side effects. I'm not saying that steroids are the only drugs without problems, I'm saying that they're not the mysterious deadly class of bad boy drugs that anti ped people want them to be.

You're talking to a Doctor who prescribes these things on a daily basis.

# ¿ Jul 4, 2014 22:09

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

There are guys who compete in amateur cycling events that are on a cocktail of chemicals. Never underestimate how easy it is for people to get this stuff.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2014 07:47

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

stickyfngrdboy posted:

Yeah but how many players go up a league without the team they're already at gaining promotion?

Rickie Lambert went from non league to playing for Liverpool in the space of 5 seasons.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 08:18

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Bogan Krkic posted:

Do you think he's doping?

I do.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 08:39

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Bayern have also had a centrifuge delivered to their stadium last month for use in their medical centre.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 14:23

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

peanut- posted:

If only there was a chemical cure for being massive loving bottlers Spurs could invest in

Spain managed to find it.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 15:19

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Jose posted:

What sort of drugs are available to help athletes who are doping pass tests, outside of just cycling to avoid in competition testing?

Various 'diet pills's will cop you a ban if they're found in your system, not because they're performance enhancing, but because they mask the indicators of the big drugs.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2014 16:41

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 07:44

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Smorgasbord posted:

Isn't Froome's 'illness' something that is in almost every case completely cured by one or very rarely 2 doses of medicine but in his case for some unspecified reason it requires regular use of a banned substance that he has a medical exemption for?

No its not. He took the required course and that was it.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2014 11:25

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > Doping in Sport