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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
Translation: 4:59 PM PST.

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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Rexides posted:

I wonder what they 10-year plan is. Are they even planning to release another version after this? Dropping the edition version from the name and saying that the whole point is to try and get all players on board makes it seem as if they want to create the edition to end all editions. In that case, what are they going to do, business wise, to keep making money out of it? Just licensing?

They do this every time an edition comes out. The first version always has little mention of other editions, the second wears it proudly: 2e black books, 3.5, Essentials.

It's a hope that yes this will be evergreen, but it never quite works that way.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Grim posted:

Do we have much more info on Forgotten Realms updates going into 5E? The only detail that sticks out to me is that the Cult of the Dragon no longer believe that dead dragons will one day rule the world and instead they want Tiamat to something something, but there's gotta be more than just that right?

Oh my god that's an incredibly stupid and bad change. The Cult of the Dragon has never had anything to do with the Church of Tiamat, it's all Sammaster's crazed prophecies. That was the entire point of why they were dangerous. I guess Kobold Press couldn't even be bothered to read ONE 3rd Edition book, let alone anything good.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

PeterWeller posted:

Remember that Sammaster was destroyed well over a century ago in continuity, so it's not like his crazy rear end has any influence over them anymore.

Come on, he has a ton of writings, teachings, et cetera around. That's like saying Hitler's Mein Kampf isn't influential today.

Also A Catastrophe the annoying thing is that groups for that already existed! gently caress around with Chessenta! There's the entire Church of Tiamat! What's left of the Morueme clan? on and on and on and on and gently caress.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Judgement posted:

Fourteen years and feats are still garbage designed by idiots. You know. Allegedly. Wouldn't want to jump the gun here.



Only if Spelljammers are navigating between the giant, magically irradiated rubble and dessicated corpses of the realms and it's dead gods tumbling for eternity through the astral sea.

You are really mad about the Forgotten Realms. Show me on the elf doll where Elminster touched you.

(Really the FR is awesome, sorry if you can't see that)

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

One quick breaking of my goal to not post here until August 8th. (Not to argue however)

The game is not D&D next. It's just D&D, D&D 5e or 5e. It was officially stated that next was the name of the playtest not the product.


Yes this is minor and rather pointless but because I know the threads name is incorrect it just bugs me. Now Goodbye

This post = HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT HOW GODDAMN STUPID I AM

:byewhore:

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Ratpick posted:

Yeah, the Bard picture was shown pre-release, and it caused some amazing grog-tears over "how can she have a guitar like that in a medieval fantasy setting WHAT ABOUT MY IMMERSION?!"

Page 22 of the 3e FRCS, the yarting is a type of guitar. Get hosed, stupid grogs.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

ritorix posted:

Psionics just use wizard spells.

Seriously.

Note that this was the same in 3e/Pathfinder, so don't pin it right on 5e. It's the same for pretty much any D&D edition that doesn't explicitly have psionics going on.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Slimnoid posted:

It's kind of telling that the only time D&D has ever done psionics in an interesting and fun manner was the 4e monk, and that didn't even use power points.

1e psionics were interesting as laid out in the core rulebooks. They were just very unbalanced.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
The game wasn't balanced around having or not having them really (excepting psionic monsters, which you would be hosed against if someone didn't have them.) It was cool since they were very specifically very rare, very hidden, and I think the text even recommends players not tell each other if they got some to keep the mystique alive.

Also there was a chance of driving your character insane, dumb, or similar if you rolled and failed to get powers. It's very 1e, and very inappropriate for anything beyond the OSR today, but it fits 1e very well.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

ascendance posted:

The way i remember it, if you didnt have psionics, you were pretty much immune to at least psionic combat, and the attack and defense modes. That way, you could keep psionics as a mostly optional module. But then, some monsters, like the mind flayer, had some powerful special abilities that were basically described as psionic, and hence overcame spell resistance and dispelling.

Yeah. One of the things that makes Gygaxian writing so Gygaxian - and in turn makes the 1e books so magical - was Gygax putting value judgments directly into the text. The fearsome MIND BLAST was one of those, and the illithid was basically the followthrough.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
He gets other people to do his harassment for him, that's different right?

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

ascendance posted:

The names of the attack and defense modes were also quite evocative. I hope they come back into 5e in some way. You had Mind Blast, Id insinuation, Ego Whip, etc. etc.

They were around in the 3.5 XPH as powers, but it wasn't quite the same.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Father Wendigo posted:

You have to keep in mind that this was Jason Bulmahn, A.K.A. the guy who has admitted to nerfing the Monk and Gunslinger classes because '[They] don't belong in a fantasy world like Golarian as we (read: I) see it.'

That makes literally no sense, since the gun rules Pathfinder uses were developed by Jason Bulmahn in the first place. Also, have you read up on Golarion? Monks and guns make a ton of sense for it and are integrated into the setting pretty well.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Radio Talmudist posted:

Does WoTC ever release massive modules, providing enough content for a lengthy campaign? Almost like Baldur's Gate 2 packaged in book form, if you catch my drift?

They have, both now and in the past. Hoard of the Dragon Queen is the first half of one for 5e; Against the Giants was one for 4e; and City of the Spider Queen was a very long adventure for 3e.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Strength of Many posted:

I have to say I appreciate that they went out of the way to make the difference between a Cleric and an every-day temple running priest more apparent in 5e. It fixes a lot of problems when you don't have a bunch of low level Clerics sitting around in every temple there to fix your problems in exchange for donations..

This was solved in 3e with the adept NPC class and in 2e with acolytes if I remember.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Babylon Astronaut posted:

I kinda hate the myth that spellcasters are supposed to rare in 3x, when rules as written, a town of 30 people has a level 4 spellcaster. It would probably be better if it was a divine caster instead of some mad wizard who could wipe out the hamlet in an instant, but provides almost no benefit to society.

One of the way better things Pathfinder did was to overhaul the entire settlement creation system, including removing figuring out each level for everyone and so on. You can now just not have wizards in a small town if you want - the GameMastery Guide talks a bit about the effects of that and why/why not you would want to do it.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

ProfessorCirno posted:

This was, incidentally, one of the things that made Rich Baker proclaim that 4e was Eberron Edition - that PCs actually were rare, and NPCs couldn't just "take a spellcasting class."

Eberron makes sense when there literally are no PC clerics outside of the party, and you get your healing done by going to House Jorasco who can do the actual healing rituals.

Yeah I just got a copy of the 4e Eberron Campaign Guide and I'm pretty excited to read about how it plays in 4e. It should be a good fit.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

homullus posted:

The 4e Eberron Campaign Guide was the book that convinced me that I could and should try DMing for the first time since 1987 or whatever. If the 5e setting guides are equally full and inspiring, I think 5e will at least break even on its contributions to the hobby.

All none of them they say they're producing, GO 5E.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Really Pants posted:

How much can you houserule a lovely system before it's better to just find another system?

Yeah, that's really my question - there's tons of other options out there now. If 5e is fundamentally broken, there's really no reason to even try to fix it when you could play DW/Pathfinder/4e instead.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

For anyone that will be getting the monster Manuel and playing with it. Here is a useful Monster by CR Index

http://s3.amazonaws.com/slyflourish_content/monsters_by_cr.pdf

That's one thing that hasn't changed from previous editions: there's vanishingly small support for playing above 10th level. ONE COLUMN OF MONSTERS FOR TWO TIERS OF PLAY YAAAAAAAAY

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Babylon Astronaut posted:

Stop calling it the monster manuel unless you are making a joke. It's making me embarrassed for you.

Who was it, Davis Chenault? They said that squats filled with illegal immigrants were basically irl dungeons complete with treasure and monsters for the civically-minded with guns. In that horrible case, Monster Manuel would fit.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

Well they said that would be the case as low level monsters are used the most. Add on in 5e it works better at least. Given that lower level monster can be used across more tiers of play. Though I do wish we had some more high level monsters.

Absolutely!

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

The CR 0 guys are almost completely made of beasts that pretty much exist just for the Druid to turn into. I don't even think most of the animals get any art.

And also for you to fill out your wonderful complete setting with, of course. Can't have D&D without toads!

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

The fact that most Games don't go past level 10 is the reason why most monsters are low level so your statement is reason why we lack High level monsters. Along with the fact that more monsters are usable across all levels of play then before.


Can we do the list again skipping out creatures that exist just for the Druid to turn into.

No because that's not the actual purpose of any of them, no matter how much you smoked today.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
Let's compare to the Pathfinder Bestiary 1, the immediate competitor.

Two notes:

1) There's actually a lot more monsters in the Bestiary than this. They're variant monsters - a ghast is a ghoul with the simple template applied, so it doesn't have its own stat block and asks the DM to do a little math to use them. Since they don't have their own stat blocks, I'm not including them.

2) The same goes for templates: the sample template creature (generic human skeleton, for example) is included, but not all skeletons.

I'll ignore the Tarrasque too, to be fair. So monsters in the Bestiary go from CR 1/8 (bat, toad) to CR 23 (solars.) The top your PCs should fight this stuff monsters are at CR 20, for balors, pit fiends, and tarn linnorms. In total there are 26 different CRs in the Bestiary. In total there are 361 monsters, which is actually less than I thought!

There are 304 monsters from CR 1/8 to CR 10, or 84%. The 57 monsters from CR 11 to CR 23 make up 16%.

The last quarter (18-24) is 14 monsters or 3.8%. Compare to monsters below CR 1, of which there are 34 or 9%.

So there's similar amounts at high levels in both books, but the amount at very low levels (below 1 CR) is far more in proportion. There's more higher-level monsters, and the very low level monsters aren't even as much proportionally as the monsters in the first half of the book.

That's better diversity, even if it still leaves high-level games hanging.

edit: Oh, and I just included all monsters. Even the ones specifically called out as player familiars that could be used for regular animals as well. Everything is expressly meant for fighting or whatever.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Babylon Astronaut posted:

If I was ever in a game where the cat rolling advantage on a wisdom check to smell something was important enough to roll, I would leave. When you rip rear end, do you roll a handful of d20's? Cat's aren't even known for their sense of smell, that's a dog. Cats have low-light vision. That's one of their things. Their eyes glow and everything. Everything about this is getting dumber and dumber. Why is the commoner +2 to hit? If the lovely commoner is +2 to hit, what does that make the level 1 fighter? He's even shittier with the same stats? I don't even know.

It's not uncommon with small animals because of wizard familiars, of which the toad is one. At least in 3e, ravens especially were very good scouts for a party, so you did need their stat blocks.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

The Crotch posted:

I know that the obvious answer is "because 4e", but did WotC give a specific reason for going with six saves instead of a sane, unified attack resolution mechanic?

Because it felt good.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

Actually it's gently caress anything with really low Int the Monster.

What is your problem with the new save system.

It's way too spread out and makes no sense and everyone is going to die horribly to at least one part of it.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

cbirdsong posted:

What ways do the PCs have to regain points in stats, especially while stunned?

Going by the grog-right tummyfeels D&D consistency option, the cleric deigning to cast restoration on them.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Super Waffle posted:

What exactly is an Intelligence Contest?

It's the natural language for "did you roll a wizard?"

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

PeterWeller posted:

It's clearly CR2 because it's pretty easy to kill, but it's also clearly not intended to be used with level 2 parties because you need high level spells to deal with it, and it's a mind flayer's dog.

This loving edition. :ughh:

You see it's going back to the sane good encounter math of 2e, not this "balanced" foofawraw.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

ProfessorCirno posted:

This is just reminding me of that dude on ENWorld who said it was literally impossible to lose limbs in D&D because there were no rules for it (since rules are physics), and that any DM that introduced an NPC with any missing body part at all was breaking verisimilitude because "missing limbs don't exist in setting".

At least I can sleep safely knowing that this isn't the case in Pathfinder.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
Oh my god they're putting the Elder Elemental Eye into the Realms. Kill me now.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

I think it has shown up in the Realms before (I don't remember when or were, but I remember hearing that). But I would prefer it focused on just the Elemental Princes as they are more setting neutral then the Elder Elemental Eye.

No. NO IT HASN'T. SHOO WITH THY BLASPHEMIES UPON GHAUNADAUR, KOSSUTH, AKADI, AND THEIR BRETHREN.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Babylon Astronaut posted:

I think they are trying to make us forget Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms are two different things, unless they really have officially been mashed together somewhere.

There have always been connections, but literally taking one of Greyhawk's signature villains and plopping it in the Realms to the detriment of anything pre-existing and similar in the Realms is a new, and terrifying, thing.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011
But modules Cirno. Modules.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

A Catastrophe posted:

I encourage you all to do super duper clever 'gotya' moments towards the people playing full progression spellcasters in your 5e games. That sounds like a fantastic idea.

I misread this as a super-clever "Gotye" moment and got really confused.

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

LightWarden posted:

Edit: Probably should have refreshed the tab.

Also googled.

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Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

MonsterEnvy posted:

He wants the D&D Next page quote. Not the 5e page quote.


Page 15 of the how to play pdf on the D&D Next playtest.

Generic Octopus said the page were it is in 5e.

I will state it again. D&D next is not the name of this edition it was the name of the playtest.

You are the worst-best poster.

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