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alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Was getting time for a new thread. The old thread was getting a little wore out.

This is the place to discuss anything rap/hip-hop and, in a new eadditon, R&B! There's often a bit of cross-discussion anyways and the old R&B thread is largely defunct (it may be archived now, I'm unsure) so I think as they're closely related having them in the same place could bring in some interesting discussion (there's a first time for everything). So now we have all the "urban" music under one happy umbrella. Also as this is a general-purpose megathread most discussion will gravitate to current events and newer releases, but feel free to discuss older stuff-you may be putting someone on to something they previously missed, or just get some new views.

Rap has largely resisted the genrefication of other music types, but that doesn't mean there's not some general descriptors in common usage. Although they're largely related to whatever region the music started in. But when people discuss:

East coast/NYC rap they're typically talking about heavy reliance on samples (usually more obscure, but not always) and a focus on lyricism and street topics. Examples include
Mobb Deep
Biggie
Nas.
Although this stuff has fallen a lot in popularity since 2000 or so, there's always some dudes doing similar stuff and as of late there's even been some a more direct revival in this style.

Southern Rap they're probably talking about heavy basslines, lots of drum machines, simple lyrics and a focus on hooks. Examples include
UGK
Three 6 Mafia
Juvenile.
If you notice those three songs don't share that much in common, and that's because actually southern rap is heavily regionalized and not all that homogeneous. Texas doesn't sound like Memphis doesn't sound like New Orleans doesn't sound like Miami. Atlanta kinda sounds like all of those but everyone knows Atlanta's not the south anyways. Also I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that some southern music labels had a very profound effect on the rap music business (No Limit and Cash Money, in particular) with how they were able to take their regional, underground sounds to a national level.

West Coast rap they're probably talking about something Dre or someone connected to him made. Examples include
Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre
Dr. Dre.
Due to Dre and his associated stuff being so popular and him generally working in more gangsta rap styles, west coast rap is still viewed largely as gangsta rap when the term's being used. As with the south, there's a lot of stuff from the west coast that's actually quite diverse (and some of it wasn't even made by Dre) but for the most part it's not really bubbled up into a greater national consciousness. The Bay area's always had their own really strong scene (where you get dudes like Too $hort, E-40, Mac Dre) and there's actually always been a really big "alternative" or "underground" sound from a lot of west coast artists (going way back to the early 90's with the Pharcyce and Heiro) but that's not the stuff people usually think of with "west coast rap"

Underground/backpacker/alternative rap they're probably talking about something that's focused on super-heavy lyricism, more "experimental" production, and/or more abstract topics. Examples include
DOOM
El-P
Aesop Rock.
A lot of this music was made in response to the more street/gangsta rap topics that were getting a lot of focus in the mainstream. Alternately, you get a lot of experimentation with pulling in different types of production and more outside genre influence. Alternative rap is often what you'll see stuff referred to where musically the sound would otherwise be the same but it's from a more mainstream/popular artist (Kanye, arguably Outkast, etc) since the other two terms are kinda mutually exclusive with being signed to a large label. "Backpacker" became a loaded term in the mid 2000's after the white dudes who got into this type of rap music first and helped make it popular because it was more "intellectual" decided it wasn't "authentic" enough for them and decided displaying evidence of an education past 8th grade in rap was a bad thing. Even though the term's not used often anymore as a perjorative, the spirit of white dudes hating negros using words was still quite alive in the last thread and will likely continue to remain.

Gangsta rap they're probably talking about something with aggressive lyrics and production talking about "street" topics (drugs, killing, pimping, money etc). Examples include
N.W.A.
Ice Cube
Kool G Rap.
As mentioned above, you'll sometimes see this used interchangably with west coast rap but in general I've seen it used in a more broad context. This is also largely what most general people who don't actually listen to rap seem to imagine it's all like.

Trap is southern gangsta rap so you'll usually get simpler lyrics and a heavier reliance on drum machines. Examples include
Gucci
Waka
Jeezy.
This subgenre is the most recent of these to emerge and is still evolving somewhat, depending on how you'd classify dudes like Young Thug, Migos, Future etc who've definitely brought in different production styles and aren't quite as "gangsta-y" in their raps (although Migos apparently were just involved in a shootout on the road so idk). Drill (which may not even be a thing still) is essentially Chicago trap rap by dudes like Keef, Durk, and other functionally illiterate teens. Also remember the white dudes who used to ride hard for underground "intellectual" poo poo? Yeah this is what they like now. Trap and Drill likely don't have a long shelf life (as distinct subgenres) and will eventually just be rolled up under the "gangsta" label, but since they're still kinda hot and commonly used terms I figured they should be mentioned.

Conscious rap they're probably talking about something that's non-gangsta in topic and usually focused on social issues. Examples include
A Tribe Called Quest
The Roots
Talib Kweli.
Now, I said before that when this term is used people are probably talking about some rap that's focused on social issues or something. What they're REALLY talking about is something that has jazzy/smooth production and may or may not actually be socially "conscious". There's also a lot of overlap here and with the alternative rap category. But the key here actually isn't lyrical content, it's jazzy production. NWA and P.E. were both socially conscious groups (at least early NWA) but try to slip either of them in a Starbucks playlist and watch how fast the cops will be called on you (the answer is "very fast").

That list is hardly exhaustive but it should be at least a starter for people truly new to rap and to help give a shorthand when people are throwing terms around describing stuff. Also out of all music I think only EDM and it's various genres are still as evolving the rate rap is, which also makes classification more difficult. But I did think it would be good to add at least a small overview of some of the common themes and terms used. If anyone does think there's any big misses let me know and we can work on getting them added.


FAQ:

How do I find new music?
There's a ton of rap music getting released daily. No seriously, today alone I've had 3 emails sent announcing new Lofty305 albums (to go with the 2 I got earlier this week talking about his side project releases). In general most people use blogs of some sort for general releases. These can vary from link dumps, to places that only cover a particular region, to sites that do few but more in-depth updates discussing new music. There's a lot of variety.

Social media sites also are a great place for finding out about new music, especially for less mainstream artists. I've found a lot of music I enjoyed by following similar links on youtube/soundcloud/bandcamp of stuff I've looked up, checking out music dudes whose music I like talk about, and similar things.

Also rap's become a lot more mainstream so most of the "big" names and even some medium names you can get from the regular music sites (pitchfork, etc).

Hi, I like [artist x]/I'm just getting into hip-hop, who should I listen to?
Most people are happy to give suggestions. Just make sure and give enough to work with. Some examples and more importantly why you like them. Do you like the production, the rapping, the subject matter, or what? Help us help you!

Where can I download [artist x]/can I get a link to [artist x]'s new tape?
Moreso than other music, there's an issue in rap with albums being "leaked" early on various "sites". As per forum rules, posting links to any is bad and can get you probated/banned. Also if you're discussing some new leaked album, don't mention where you got it or anything similar.

On the flipside, many albums stream previews on the various commercial sites and these are A-OK. As well as posting any links to free mixtapes or links from "official" sources. I don't believe this has been much of an issue so far and it'd be nice to keep it that way. And if there's any questions if something's fine to post a link, pm a mod first.

Why is most rap all about guns, hos, and money? Why are they saying all this mean stuff about gays/women?
There's discussion to be had about these topics. But if you're gonna go into some "real hip-hop" vs. "rap" discussion don't even bother-I and some other people are just gonna call you a clown in various ways. Also complaining when someone calls a woman a "bitch" in a song while ignoring the rest of the song filled with murder and drug sales is not a good look.

Thread Guidelines/Rules:
Don't just drop links to songs/videoes/mixtapes with no discussion. There's more than enough sites that are just link dumps, and this isn't PYF. Chances are if something's not notable enough for you to spend time actually discussing why people need to listen, it's not worth their time to actually listen to it.

As mentioned above, don't post links to retail albums.

Discussion is cool, bitchfits aren't. Sometimes it's best just to agree to disagree.

Also I did crack a couple jokes above; realize they were mostly tongue-in-cheek. However, also realize that for the most part rap/hip-hop is still heavily entwined with black culture/identity and that white people (really, non-blacks) are still largely outsiders. So Wellington J. Farnsworth III, born in the Connecticut suburbs, listening to Freddie Gibbs talk about shooting (black) dudes in Gary has totally different connotations and symbolism and whatnot than Balthazar Greer, born in Detroit, listening to the Eagulls sing about...whatever the hell they sing about (seriously can someone tell me?). Also understand why some people may not appreciate Iggy Azalea/Riff Raff/white blog rapper du jour getting their appropriation on and becoming famous for it while more talented, less white artists get no mention.

Also I've not mentioned R&B much in the OP, so anyone who wants to do a writeup of that let me know and I'll add it. Most of my experience has just been what I listened to personally and I've not been as involved with what's going on in R&B in the last few years outside of a few acts. But I'd actually have a lot of questions in that area so I hope we do get some people who are more tuned in to what's going on.

alansmithee fucked around with this message at Dec 28, 2015 around 23:29

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alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

reserved for websites or something idk yet

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

For content:

New ep from Chicago duo Hurt Everything (they had that song "Golden" with Alex Wiley, I think). Everything I've heard from it is ridiculous so far, Chicago's got a lot of different stuff going on musically, and a lot of it is good.

http://www.audiomack.com/album/hurt...rt-everybody-ep

alansmithee fucked around with this message at Jul 4, 2014 around 13:01

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

serbp posted:

Hey guys, I recently started listening to Roc Marciano and Ka, and I was wondering if anybody could recommend (preferably newer) rappers who use the same type of production, or just actual producers if you can't think of any rappers

like similar to the beats 17:10 and 26:00 on this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1hDpufNXd0

and at around 34:00 and 37:30 on this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N92qRfDSxQ

Newer stuff is gonna be harder to find, but not impossible. Doppelgangaz are quite similar in production (although tbh I didn't like their most recent album all that much). Boldy James "My First Chemistry Set" is also gonna be similar, although Alchemist doesn't strip down his production as much (nobody strips their poo poo down as much as Ka, excepting some scattered DOOM beats). Jeremiah Jay [producer if you wanna check for his other stuff] & Oliver the 2nd's "Rawhyde" is also similar (also I forget how good this album is, 2013 had like a million good releases).

Henchman of Santa posted:

Great OP. You were the one who mentioned Open Mike Eagle's new album, right alan? Because I listened to it last weekend and thought it was great. Especially the Hannibal Burress feature.
Yeah that was me. I love that album more every time I listen (which is a lot) and it's really the first one from this year I can think of as making any sort of year-end list (maybe god complex as well). It's also secretly the second darkest rap album in the last couple years or so (nothing's gonna top Cage's "Kill the Architect"). Speaking of which, I compared it earlier to Dour Candy by billy woods, but in hindsight it's probably more similar to a more subtle, less insular take on the same themes from Cage's album.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Henchman of Santa posted:

I'll have to actually get around to listening to Cage since he's always grouped with this kind of hip-hop and I tend to enjoy it. billy woods has been putting out some of my rap of the past couple of years.

Any more stuff you'd describe as "dark"? I tend to enjoy rappers/groups I get that vibe from, like Sadistik, Eyedea & Abilities, The Roots during the 2000s, etc.

If you dig that kind of stuff you should check pretty much all of Cage's catalog. Movies for the blind, hell's winter, and kill the architect are all great (depart from me had like 1 or 2 good songs, a couple more passable, and the rest was pure trash, definitely one of the biggest disappointments record-wise for me). Also Leak Bros (Cage and Tame-One). Here's one of his first songs, for instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rgtp_qOfHA

Big thing is that there's not many that carry that type of tone throughout the whole album. That's the thing about "Kill the Architect"-it doesn't stop. But for some other stuff:

I'd check Buck 65-Man Overboard, Talking Honky Blues, Secret House Against The World. The last two definitely strain the definition of "rap", but if you trim out some of the outliers they definitely fit. You might as well check some of the other early anticon dudes-Sixtoo, Sole, Slug, and Doseone would be the notable ones. Grab the first (? I think it was first) anticon sampler "Music for the Advancement of Hip-Hop" (try not to roll your eyes too hard at the title, and put it in the context of the time) and see what all off of there you like. If you dig it I can do a more full writeup on some of the early anticon years and whatnot (since there's tons of random singles and eps and the dudes had albums coming out on all sorts of different labels and whatnot). You'll find stuff like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bh8ZswJHL4

Along that same line, early Atoms Family dudes deserve a look. I'm assuming you already know Can-Ox. I'd avoid Hangar 18 for dark stuff though since they have way too much bounce and pep (although I like their stuff, it's just not in that vein). Cryptic One's "Anti-Mobius Strip Theory" should be something you'd dig a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9zlTIpGvmc

For some newer stuff, Lucki Eck$ album was surprisingly dark imo. Same for Patriarch I by Deniro Fararr (although that's a lot more regular gangsta stuff). Also Gorgeous Children-their stuff kinda reminds me of "Kill the Architect" if it wasn't made by a burnout nihilist. Their last EP was just ok but the self-titled one was great (it's essentially a modern-day "Tha Infamous"), and the individual dudes have some stuff floating around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsEk4Obh1Dg

On the billy woods tip, GDP put out a great album a couple years ago that has that same semi-political bent, so check for that for sure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8995UdVSok

I'll try to think of some more later, but that should be a good start.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Prefuse posted:

did you see that gorgeous children is going to have a feature on the new rustie album? surprised the gently caress out of me. had no idea they were getting big

They seem to get mentioned absolutely zero by regular people but are always on a bunch of magazine features and stuff, and always touring with some pretty big names, usually in the EDM scene. That album's also gonna have Danny Brown on it so hopefully it's decent.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

serbp posted:

I listened to the Doppelgangaz new album and to Rawhyde as well, and I'm liking them so far. I'm also really liking that Boldy James album, more specifically the songs Moochie, Rappies, and Give Me a Reason. I've been recently listening to The Alchemist's work recently too, and I really like his style (his production work on Action Bronson's mixtape was amazing, and is the only reason I would listen to Action Bronson). if you could think of other stuff similar to him that's currently out there I would appreciate it (I also really enjoy when producers use old funk/jazz samples, or just try to have a jazzy/funky vibe with the song).

I hadn't forgotten about this.

If you haven't heard them yet, check Russian Roulette (Alchemist's album) and Return of the Mac (Prodigy's album with Al on production). He also produced an album for Willie the Kid last year so you may wanna check that.

It's a bit hard to find more recent stuff similar to him just because dudes have largely been going away from sample-based production. You may like Quelle Chris (Shotgun & Sleek Rifle was really good, the other stuff isn't bad but didn't grab me as much). I'd also look for anything from the loose "Beast Coast" collective (Joey Badass, Pro Era, Flatbush Zombies, The Underachievers). They're not totally like the stuff you mention, but they're heavily influenced by the early/mid 90's sound so you can get a new take on it.

Also there seems like there's a couple newer things that are super-obvious that I'm missing that are more recent, but I can't think of them. Also if you're not averse to old stuff there's a ton that would fit the bill, but depending on quality or w/e it can sound a bit dated.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Ultraklystron posted:

If you buy the loop pack, you can use them royalty-free in commercial work, so unless he pirated the loop pack, Hit Boy's in the clear. I mean, yeah loop packs are kinda lame, but it's also nothing new either. I seem to recall Puff Daddy being quoted in music production magazine ads for loop packs back in the late 90s/early 00's.


EATIN SHRIMP's got it right basically.

Swizz Beats sold literal casio presets to people so I don't think this is a big deal.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Robert Analog posted:

Is this a thing people really care about? Speaking of that extension that converts youtube links to titles doesn't work anymore. Anyone know of another one?


Well I obviously care about it. It was also in the last thread's OP fwiw.

The point is that this (and the previous thread, and I guess all threads in NMD) are supposed to be discussions. And if you don't really have anything to say about a link, why post it?

Although tbh I don't mind the single posts nearly as much as the link dumps, but I've "hidden" those for the most part so it doesn't really matter. There's just really no good way to parse 20 random youtube links into any sort of conversation and if you really want that you can just browse 2dopeboyz or something else of the sort.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Profondo Rosso posted:

The latest weirdo chicago kid dropped a mix tape. It's pretty good. In the same vein as chance/mensa/ecks/whoeveriforgot. Check it out if you're into that

His voice really reminds me of someone but I can't place who


http://pigeonsandplanes.com/2014/07...rtzone-mixtape/

(Also I agree 10 day is better than acid rap whoever said that in the last thread)

Yeah that was me. I think it's somehow more uneven but the standout tracks are better imo.

Also there's a whole bunch of these dudes popping up in Chicago now. Alex Wiley had a mixtape earlier, as did Hurt Everybody and a couple others I can't remember now that I picked up tapes for. It kinda reminds me of the project blowed stuff that popped up in the 90's during LA's big gangsta rap phase (although less organized obv).


Lots of dudes don't mind talking about old stuff (and the last album you really talk about is almost 20 years old which is like ancient in rap) but some goofy recap isn't really adding anything or w/e especially when half of what you wrote was wrong. Like your whole post came off like a pitchfork profile circa 2003. Also I think it's a good assumption that people here are familiar with Wu. Since your postcount wasn't negative (which fwiw is the first thing I check when I suspect a troll post) I assume you're somewhat being sincere so why not actually talk about why you think they're still relevant to rap, or why you think people should listen to them, or anything else.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

unclenutzzy posted:

i don't like gucci and i don't think any rapper can have that kind of volume and still write good verses worth listening to

you're right! all the stuff being released under his name are cobbled together scraps from the last few years when he wasn't in jail or hosed up out of his mind. i swear someone posted an article showing how his mixtapes are being made by a bunch of dudes with no involvement from him anymore by just grabbing whatever random verses they can and throwing them together. dude's essentially lil b at this point with worse quality control.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

EATIN SHRIMP posted:

How rock hard do you get when you get to hate on Gucci? I'm pretty sure the article said he talks to these guys every day to work on putting these mixtapes together. If you listened to the songs it's pretty obvious they aren't just taking random verses and putting them together on the same song.

you might have a point if it was just me but dudes who actually liked him back when he was "good" saying his poo poo's lame now. i mean i don't even really talk about him except every 5th mixtape of his (so about once every couple days) when some dudes who aren't trying to turn dude into a meme actually talk about him.

i mean i've definitely liked some subpar poo poo before too, don't know why some people get so bent out of poo poo for calling wack poo poo wack.

that's wild, i saw he had danny brown (and gorgeous children!?!) on his next album so was wondering what it would sound like. to my untrained ear that could almost pass for a grime track too which is kinda cool.

I AM BRAWW posted:

It was suppose to come out near the beginning of this year, then it was suppose to come out as a summer album
man it's worse than that. he was supposed to have a winter album for LAST YEAR, then the early this year/summer stuff. i didn't like the first song of his i heard, but suwop serengeti grew on me a lot even though there was some questionable stuff and it kept cutting off beats i liked way too early.
and i really hate poo poo like that. like i remember when i first got a piece of strange and i was pissed the best thing on the whole album was like a 20 second snippet at the front of one of the songs. like dude you have something good let it go someplace don't cut it off smh

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Alvarez IV posted:

It's the morning after seeing Juicy J live, and I don't know why I expected the crowdgoers at a rap show in Connecticut to be anything less than a bunch of Caucasian recent high school graduates. Juicy pretty much stuck to his club bangers because he assumed that that's what everyone wanted to hear, so I didn't get to yell along to No Love or Gun Plus a Mask or Wax. Still a fun time, but not something I'll do again in the land of the bourgeoisie.

On a slightly different topic, this is just out of morbid curiosity since I almost exclusively listen to hip-hop about money, women, drugs, and guns, but are any of the socially conscious rappers out there worth loving with? The only one I know about is Immortal Technique but he's only interesting if you're one of those people who thinks there's such thing as "real hip-hop" that is being covered up by Lil Wayne's very existence, and I only know about him because college professors like playing his stuff to their classes to teach about gentrification, which is about the worst thing you could tell me to recommend him to me as a rapper. I guess if you think Rage Against the Machine counts as hip-hop, they technically count, but the closest I get to socially conscious hip-hop is when a rapper tells me why he's shooting police as opposed to just telling me that he's shooting police.

It really depends on what you consider socially conscious. Like I mention before, to a lot of people that really just means poo poo that's kinda jazzy you can play in a coffee shop or something. A lot of "hard" gangsta rap actually as a very socially aware undercurrent, it's just certain elements don't care about that poo poo because it's not relevant to them/trendy enough to be taken that way.

But yeah there's a lot of dudes who are good. I'd say in general they're gonna typically be better rappers than your average gangsta dude just because you have to rely less on tropes and personality than your actual lyrics and whatnot.

But I'd recommend Mos Def, Common up to Be (and skip electric circus, can't remember if that's before Be but it's poo poo), Sage Francis, Mr. Lif, Busdriver, Open Mike Eagle, Milo (really all of Hellfyre Club), GDP, billy woods and if you don't mind older stuff pretty much all of the Native Tongues groups & KMD. That's a fair mix of stuff to at least get started with.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Ultraklystron posted:

Future's Adult Swim Singles Track/Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNwQeiK1O9Y

I definitely dig the animation and the beat. I'm glad Future's dialed the auto tune a bit too.

That's like better than anything on his album not SH!T or Karate Chop

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Budget Cop posted:

this is story 4 and story 2 was on CLPPNG....so where's story 3?

Probably on the same album as Exhibit B

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer


this is really good. definitely a solid followup. beats seem even more...different. there's also a bjork sample so this will probably have to be my album of the year.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Budget Cop posted:

https://soundcloud.com/gently caress-vic-men...d-by-kaytranada
i've been enjoying vic mensa so much more than chance lately. all of vic's recent songs have been so good

tbh I'm not entirely a fan of this song, but i kinda agree with you about chance. seems like he's trying way too hard to be "alternative" or w/e rather than just focusing on making good songs.

Wezlar posted:

The chance that Young Thug didn't ghostwrite this is basically 0.001%

edit: I would believe Drake wrote his verse though because dude is pretty much the master of jumping on someone elses track and jacking their flow.
young thug signs his name with three x's i don't see how you think he's actually gonna ghostwrite for anyone.

that style's obv an influence, but thugga's style is really just a more singsong version of what wayne's been doing for years anyway.

also the hurt everybody album that was released this year was really good, but i'd be lying if i didn't kinda wish they would've gotten young thug on some of the tracks there (assuming he can branch even a little bit in subject matter). they got a lot of that singrapping, but it's just lacking a bit of punch.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

temple posted:

The question is better phrased as why does the music only reflect one dimension of the listeners? It didn't always. What changed?

It doesn't now only reflect one dimension, looking at the whole. And as far as "mainstream" rap it's always tended more towards one dimension anyways. Dudes seriously have a skewed view of the past and what music was out and available-PE wasn't just an outlier but isn't really that different than what Kanye was doing on some songs with Yeezus. When PE was actually making good music, I think MC Hammer had the best selling rap album.

Bol is by far my fav rap writer, but dudes tastes are firmly in the 90's/early 2000s and it doesn't seem like he's ever tried to identify any newer music that isn't getting immediate buzz. His tumblr feed is great if you want to find out what a bunch of indy rappers from the 90's are up to now (which is usually remaking whatever poo poo they did in the past for an increasingly shrinking fanbase). Dudes seriously more tuned into indie rock now than any modern rap stuff.

I think the situation is a lot less that rap isn't serving black people anymore but more that black culture itself has changed to have different focuses. When PE was big you had a lot of the back-to-africa/pro-black stuff being promulgated. That's just not really present anymore.

GET MONEY posted:

Bol's thing is pretty rambling. Isn't this Mike Brown situation getting a whole bunch of media attention? There's no coverage gap there for a Public Enemy to fill anymore, they solved the problem of getting black people issues on the news. That's a win for hip-hop! That's why actual CNN is the CNN of black people now, a protest song isn't going to accomplish more than #IfTheyGunnedMeDown.

Sadly but accurately the zeitgeist of this generation is recognizing the only way not get randomly beaten and shot and generally mistreated in 2014 American society is to get your rear end in the 1%. So that's where hip-hop lives now, somewhere between aspiration and video game level escapism. If you're still getting your social justice news from hip-hop
I don't really think this is right either. I don't think protest songs would help much, but #hastagprotests don't do poo poo either. Hell, even real, physical protests don't do poo poo. It's pretty much open season on Negros in the US now and there's nothing that's gonna change that. I've been saying it for years now but blacks are essentially doomed. The constant news cycle has more to do with coverage than any actual "progress"-if there was really progress situations like what's going on in StL wouldn't have happened.

Rap's not just aspiration and excapism-that's some straight up bullshit based solely on that being what you wanna listen to. And getting your info from rap isn't any worse than any other source, especially now when "social justice" is just something you say to let other people know how progressive you are and make your twitter feed seem a bit less inane. And if anyone really thinks there's not a coverage gap between news outlets and what's impacting blacks in the US they're a clown.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

temple posted:

What bothers me is the energy rappers put into informing us of their gang affiliation and the price of cocaine. But they resort to passive admission of police brutality, drug abuse, and socio-economy realities. People are bored of gently caress Da Police but they are still entertained by Dopeman. Some how some way, anti-oppression themes are muted.

That's not really a new change though. It took one year for NWA to go from 100 Miles and Runnin' to Niggaz4Life which is a totally different tone. And that stuff was mostly done by '92 and the "golden age".

Now, were there more "underground" dudes talking that stuff? Of course, but that's no different today. Besides, you can still find those themes in modern music. It's lazy to just point to NWA/PE and say nothing's like that anymore when 1) they weren't the norm in their time (or at least the more "anti-oppression themes in their music) and b) their careers weren't entirely that music.

And if you're going by sales or whatever, people are bored as gently caress by Dopeman as well.

Don't get me wrong, I'd appreciate more outwardly-aggressive gangsta music, but NWA was the aberration, not the norm for the era. Also when they came out that was a lot more shocking and impactful-now talking about shooting cops and gently caress that police isn't some anti-authoritarian statement, it's well-worn ground in rap.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

thathonkey posted:

on the lookout for the first verse to be released about Mike Brown from a semi-legit rapper... (i say this because some random dude i went to hs with on my facebook has already "dropped" a verse whole song dedicated to the tragedy. I would link it here but id feel bad)

J-Cole put something out, and I wanna say Busdriver just did as well. Dudes are starting to drop stuff.

Which makes that stuff Bol was saying sound even more ridiculous, since that was like the day after the shooting took place.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Rush_shirt posted:


I am not into Chance. I like Camp. Because the Internet is growing on me, but Camp is the jam for me.


Camp is on the short list for worst rap album in the last 10 years.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Budget Cop posted:

lupe has the worst ear for beats ever. just look at LASERS and how loving terrible every single beat on the album was

edit: i listened to the song and the beat isn't even that bad imo and ty dolla $ign is a way better feature than literally everyone on his previous album

I've soured on dude a lot but I don't blame him for LASERS at all. He was forced by his label to work with whoever they picked for him if he wanted to get out of his contract and I know around the time he released it pretty much all his interviews he said he didn't like the album at all.

Also for all the raider klan talk, blackland 666 is easily better than trap lord (although trap lord's really good). metro zu isn't really raider klan either fwiw, they just did some features with all those dudes.

actually, who's even left in raider klan besides sgp anymore? i know curry and ethelwulf left so that leaves yung simmie? anyone else?

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Budget Cop posted:

the unsubtle heavy handed lyrics, polarizing beat and awkward video are all there. sure looks and sounds like the lupe i know

ehh, i think the lyric stuff is a bit harsh-he's definitely gotten a lot more preachy but when he's on his game I think he can still make "conscious" stuff that sounds good.

although until he's had a string of garbage i'll never count out the dude who made SLR...

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Rush_shirt posted:

He dropped off my map after his first album. Back then he rapped about skateboarding and Islam.

if you really think that's what his first album was about you weren't listening to him then either. the dude you apparently remember doesn't exist.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Another Person posted:

a friend is trying to get me to listen to Pro Era and its members, she reckons they are really good. Never really listened to them enough to know. I know I like Steez but only listened to some of his stuff after the fact, so I don't know any of the poo poo he was also on. What do you guys think was the best thing Pro Era put out so I can give it a listen and finally do as my friend asks and give them a chance?

I got her to listen to the Underachievers and Flatbush Zombies after a little pressure, so I feel it is only right to listen to stuff she reckons I would like. She says they are similar.

don't ever hear any of them mentioned in here, so I never figured them worth a look before really. listening to The Shift now regardless and it is alright, nothing too special tho

There's not really all that much out from them. I like Rejex probably the best (Joey's second tape) but most people probably say 1999 is the best thing they've put out. I'd start there, and with the aprocalypse mixtape that's the group comp. If none of that grabs you chances are you won't really like them.

Biggest reason you don't hear much about them around here (outside of when something new comes out, there's usually a little talk then) is that for the few people here who would actually appreciate that style and aesthetic there's dudes who are pulling off the same stuff, but in general better. The thing I liked most about Joey's stuff was that there's a...naivete there compared to a lot of rap (especially compared to stuff he's influenced by). But that's not really enough to hold attention imo, and he's not really done enough to differentiate himself from the other similar dudes (not to mention his influences)-If you're not particularly familiar with his stuff you essentially can't tell the difference between him, Bishop Nehru, and Astro.

Contrast this with the dudes you named (or Doppelgangaz, for another take) who are actually taking that stuff in new directions so they're actually out of the shadow of the 90's acts they're trying to sound like.

They're essentially like any number of generic good-rapping 90's dudes so there's nothing really to make them stand out past the initial listen-they lack personality or something. Now with that said, I'll still be checking Joey's upcoming album, and pretty much all the Pro Era dudes can rap so it's not like they're garbage. The original production they get also shows a lot of talent, it's just a matter if they'll become dudes who are more than a 90's NY cover band.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Profondo Rosso posted:

i unironically prefer spooky black to the weeknd at this point

I really like a lot of what weeknd does with production & atmosphere but I don't think it's a stretch to say spooky black is a better singer.

I'd hope to get more R&B discussion around because I'm not really up on that stuff anymore besides the kinda-big names and tbh I don't really like most of them that I've heard (of them I probably like Weeknd the best but that's 90% due to the production). Typically I find myself just checking out UK Bass-type stuff, odd rap stuff, or Ferraro-type stuff to get my R&B fix when I want something made in the last 10 years.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

DinoCzar posted:

Seriously, some extra R&B talk would be great. I have been listening to Frank Ocean and Miguel for so long and I feel like I can't find any artists that match their style that I can really get into.

I forgot about Miguel, I dig a lot of that dude's music. Also Georgia Anne Muldrow for an older sound. Not a big fan of Frank Ocean.

But for some pseudo-R&B recommendations of newer stuff, I'd check out Hurt Everybody's mixtape from this year (tends a bit more towards rap, but the sound and vibe is right), Su Bailey's "The Saturns" (another thing that's a bit more rap but mellow with singing), James Blake's stuff, James Ferraro's recent stuff (Cold, Sushi, Hell NYC 3:00 AM), Jet Age of Tomorrow (Oddfuture group that never got the pub of the others despite having arguably the best output, more instrumental type stuff though), Metro Zu/Lofty305 (another singing/rapping hybrid), Spooky Black.

None of those is really "R&B" (outside of Spooky Black and arguably James Blake) but the type of stuff that I grab when I have an itch for something new rather than the old 70's-90's stuff I'm more familiar with.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Profondo Rosso posted:

related. that new lucky ecks is crazy dont sleep
Yeah I'm expecting a couple months from now people to get on it (like happened last year). I've been talking it up but haven't really gone in depth. I'm really surprised at how good it is, coming so close to his last album. Only album I think has been better this year is Dark Comedy (as an aside, I think Milo and Busdriver's albums will be out too so hoping those are as good).

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Dexo posted:

Hmm, Just got a job offer making around twice what I'm making now, What are some of the best come up tracks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52O1RArgdg0

One of my fav tracks on an album I really liked. Didn't like his follow up stuff nearly as well though, although I'll probably have to give ghost at the finish line another chance at some point.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Quantum of Phallus posted:

Saw Outkast last night. Songs are classic and it was good fun but it's sad to see them in the context of such a pointless tour.
Andre and Big Boi have zero chemistry whatsoever. They avoid each other on stage and come and go on separate sides. No interaction at all.

This was either a contractual obligation or they got paid an absolute fortune to do it cos it's not for the art.

Outkast are one of the best and Aquemini is in my top 5 albums ever but I'm definitely a bit disappointed.

Andre just did an interview where he outright said he didn't want to do the tour and that he had considered Outkast done. There was some other interesting stuff in there but it's hard to say if he actually comes off as sympathetic or anything.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Dexo posted:

That actually might not be bad, Hold My Liquor surprisingly ended up being one of my favorite tracks off Yeezus.

Yeah I liked Hold My Liquor, second fav track with Keef on it (Go To Jail is his best track fwiw). That being said I'm not sure he really adds anything but his name, as I think literally any rapper could've done what he did there but it definitely wasn't bad.

And the problem with donglover's album had nothing to do with the production (which i think numerous people said was solid). It was the rapping/content/ideas that was dumb as hell and/or executed horribly.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Profondo Rosso posted:

i have never heard of this person before and she has like 3 followers on soundcloud but this tape is pretty good if you like sing-rapping. the production is super chill and jazzy and she's pretty talented. she reminds me of kilo kish a bit

https://soundcloud.com/jaq-lyn-sina...onditional-love

edit: this isn't rap but thank me later for showing it to you (r&b I guess? idk its amazing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coVnTtTNHf0


also i have literally listened to this song 100 times (actual literal, last fm tells me so) in the past 2 days so uh ill post it.this is such a banger even if no one on the track can rap.
http://youtu.be/mF9kOkRCnyo

WRIST WRIST WRIST WRIST WRIST, I WANT MY WRIST SO COLD I WANT PNEUMONIA IN MY FIST

I thought it was here but maybe not, I know I just heard of that ilovemakonnen dude cause drake signed him apparently? Thought he was affiliated with yung lean or something but can't remember.

but that song's catchy in a budget lil b way. also i gotta give credit to dude waving around about $15 in ones like it's a big deal

first song was p decent, although still a bit sloppy for my tastes in r&b (at least for not being "dark" which I like a lot muddier)

and going back to sgp, if you don't like blackland 666 radio tbh I don't know if there's much to recommend about him since that's pretty much the peak of his style imo. the lovely sound quality adds to the ambiance imo and when some of them got cleaned up for mysterious phunk they lost a lot of their charm. since a lot of his production & sampling on there was so sloppy, it seemed to fit (similar to spark master tape as well). it doesn't "clean up" like say, 36 chambers does/did.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

double post

for content though, i was excited about that remix at first until i saw it was the jeezy version instead of the montana of 300 version

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Crumbletron posted:

Cool, thanks about the SGP. I think the main issue is I listen to most of my new music on public transport so it can get loud and the low mixing quality and volume on most of SGP's stuff makes it hard to find a melody or whatever. It's like how listening to Gucci at low volumes takes a lot of the punch out since you don't get the bass.

I was just kinda hoping there'd be like, Yung Simmie type stuff that's still decent quality while maintaining a similar sound. Same with Denzel.

You may wanna try his newer stuff, he's taken to sing/rapping a bit and his stuff is a bit cleaner but to me the attraction of his stuff was the echos of the old memphis devil music poo poo where if you get it all crisp and shined up nice, the sound just seems a lot more bland.

not sure if you've checked him out, but if you want something like SGP's early stuff that actually delivers on a lot of the promise, check out mister thug isolation by lil ugly mane (and his other stuff, but that's the closest direct sound). dude's also on what I think is SGP's best track (you ain't from my hood, which is what made me look him up in the first place).

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

The Fresh Prince posted:

According to the rumors, Migos might have robbed a promoter at gunpoint:
http://www.xxlmag.com/news/2014/09/...ey-at-gunpoint/

They're on a hell of a tour if this is true. First they beat the poo poo out of a dude for trying to steal one of their chains on stage, and now possibly this.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised. I mean they was in at least one shootout (allegedly) riding down the middle of the road.

Also if someone dumb enough to try to jack someone's chain while they onstage and they don't have dudes ready to back them, they deserve a beating.
-------
And for something entirely completely different, for some R&B content here's a pretty decent article that I mostly agree with (although I'm not sure so much about some of the conclusions drawn and societal stuff or w/e but w/e). It's a couple years ago all about "quiet storm" music. I actually remember listening to a quiet storm block on the radio growing up so this was pretty interesting to me (with some caveats). I didn't know until way later that it was actually a national thing. And true to form, "Quiet Storm" lead every show (along with "Moments in Love" by Art of Noise which I don't think is really rnb but w/e). Also there's a spotify playlist in there that's pretty good, although some of the stuff that's newer I think is kinda a stretch to fit in (and there's no Al B Sure smh).

http://pitchfork.com/features/under...storm-tk-tk-tk/

I'd also like to do a writeup (or find something) about new jack swing, but tbh not sure I could do it justice myself since I am more familiar with it from a "consumer" standpoint, rather than a researcher or w/e.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Crumbletron posted:

also thanks to alan (?) for the Hurt Everybody rec, it's really good

Yeah that's one of the 3 releases that have stood out this year (Lucki Eck$ and Open Mike Eagle being the other two). After all the good stuff last year this one has been really sparse. I also kinda like the Goldlink album in theory, but I've not really listened to it as much.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Budget Cop posted:

you didn't like the mick jenkins tape? that seems like the kind of album you would love tbh

Something about it just comes off as meh. I'll probably give it a better chance later, but every time I've listened to it nothing seems to grab my attention. Dude's flow is just "functional" and the production seemed really uneven. I'd hear a couple things I liked, then it's like they'd drop those threads entirely or something idk. That (and Goldlink) will definitely get a better listen later but they didn't grab me like the other stuff I named.

Tin Wooki is also a good album this year but maybe a bit long. Also

THNDRTHF posted:

I hate the new Busdriver and I have and will never listen to it.

Nothing against you two gentlemen, I'm sure you're nice enough people, but gently caress Busdriver in his stupid rear end, forever.
I get if you don't like dude or w/e but you're writing off what's easily gonna be a top 5 rap album this year. Dude's production has really taken off, and he's always at least interesting lyrically.

If Milo's upcoming album is any good Hellfyre Club will have the year TDE was supposed to.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

EATIN SHRIMP posted:

Can someone just post like 2-3 good busdriver songs? Ive never listened before. A top 5 album this year is still high praise even though 2014 has been kind of weird as far as full length releases go

Dude's definitely an acquired taste, but his album's genuinely good. Like I like Sage a lot as well and his album this year was solid, but even this year I didn't think "this is top 5" or w/e. So it's not just my bias, even though I fully admit a bunch of dudes probably won't be into it at all (especially in this thread where tastes tend to run to different stuff)

As for busdriver stuff, I'm at work so can't post vids just yet (maybe I'll replace them later) but here's some of my fav of his songs:

opposable thumbs
lefty's lament
sun shower
Split Seconds
quebec and back
sorry fuckers
beaus & eros
scattered ashes

Also I'll be the first to admit dude's stuff can be corny at times.

alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

temple posted:

I made a prophesy about Rocky. The stars are aligning for his falling-off. The whole thing was Gucci and Chef Keef would continue to go back to jail and gently caress up their careers. Then it was Schoolboy Q and Rocky were going to brick up after a while. What started it all was Trinidad James getting signed.

LOL!

I hate all of you for making me listen to this song.

Rocky was never that good, he just was the most "safe" of the dudes in that lane. It's a bit early to say he fell off, but yeah his momentum's died a ton (and I don't think he can get anywhere near as big as Kendrick or especially Drake, Ferg has more potential than Rocky)

Q seemed to try too hard to get famous and his album suffered. Or so I hope, I'd rather that he's still the dude who made habits & contradictions than ras kass pt. 2. It's like he saw Kendrick taking off, and rather than stay in his lane being a smart/gangsta/party/weirdo and let folks naturally take to his style, he tried too quick to make pop poo poo and failed. It's especially unfortunate since Kendrick's essentially been able to stay himself and get famous-O.D. was a way more "pop" album than gkmc.

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alansmithee
Jan 25, 2007

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!


Grimey Drawer

Yuzenn posted:

I agree and I think that ASAP Rocky is dope, and he brings a refreshing blend of style and New York/South fusion that comes out awesome production wise most times. I've seen him twice live and the energy is undeniable. I'm also biased since I grew up on NYC (being from NY and now living in Jersey) dudes that exude that aura of "I don't give a gently caress, I'm gonna do me" which has almost totally vanished from hip hop today.

ASAP Rocky's problem is that 99% of the dudes in ASAP mob are loving trash. Ferg has some redeeming qualities but he isn't really a great rapper, his delivery plus bravado makes for some entertaining music though. He's loyal to all of his boys and I respect that but he won't be able to go far trying to let them all eat along with him. He is far and above the rest of them as far as career and raw talent and it's only going to hold him back branding anything but his solo career.

As he gets older and more humble I hope he realizes he has to focus on his own brand, and hopefully he keeps honing his craft and stays hungry. It's not easy to stay relevant in rap without constant material being dropped, and even harder to sustain getting paid.

Rocky don't do his own production.

And his problem isn't ASAP Mob (although I do agree that most of them are trash), it's that he's all style and whatever. There's nothing in his actual music to hook people, so when he's not trendy anymore it's not likely he can stick around. He's like a new version of Kriss Kross or something.

And the reason I said Ferg has more potential is on top of having charisma and whatever, dude's actually got a recognizable musical style that makes him stand out compared to other dudes. Rocky's essentially anonymous on tracks where production isn't doing gymnastics to make him sound different.

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