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I was on the bandwagon of "OMG, they don't really know how many calories are in things! Therefore it's impossible to accurately track! Calories in/ calories out is flawed logic!" for a long rear end time when I was trying to justify my ED and my fatness. Then, surprise surprise, I started to eat less, then track my caloric intake, then map my caloric intake to my fat loss. Pictures from upthread show the results. Anyone who's on the bandwagon of "OMG Calories don't count" are, in my experience, always fat and always in denial about the effort that needs to happen about getting un-fat. Also, These are thoughts from having an Eating Disorder, not from having a normal attitude about food posted:"Aside from it not in fact being easy at all with all of the emotional issues that invariably surround food and eating" Actually that brings up a good point that's on topic in this thread- When I was fat I thought it was normal to have a lot of emotion around food and eating. Feeling guilty about eating particular foods, feeling a deep desire to eat particular foods, feeling a strong emotional attachment to eating particular foods. As I've been in recovery I've realized that THIS IS NOT NORMAL. Food is fuel, nothing more and nothing less. It's not something that needs to be anthropomorphised into either a friend or an enemy. It's seriously hosed up to form an emotional attachment to food- it's on the same level as forming an emotional attachment to your shoes. 30 Goddamned Dicks fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 21:53
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If you remain obese while actually eating as-labelled 1200 calories a day and are anything other than a midget, then you are achieving something truly impressive. For 99% or more of the population, 1200 calories a day is not enough to be obese on.
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Jul 15, 2014 21:58
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messagemode1 posted:Uh... What. To restate all that from the personal perspective view... she sees me eat as much or more than she does, and usually choosing less healthy foods than she does, and putting forward less effort to get exercise. And I'm a stick while she's very much not. This gets rather frustrating. When she seeks advice for overcoming the challenges she faces trying to lose weight, what she finds are condescending explanations implying it's no harder for her to lose weight than it is for me to keep on being skinny, and not a lot that's actually helpful to anyone that already understands the basic nutrition. And then, frustrated, and fed up with constantly feeling hungry despite barely running a calorie deficit at all, she gives up.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:07
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Zhentar posted:To restate all that from the personal perspective view... she sees me eat as much or more than she does, and usually choosing less healthy foods than she does, and putting forward less effort to get exercise. And I'm a stick while she's very much not. This gets rather frustrating. When she seeks advice for overcoming the challenges she faces trying to lose weight, what she finds are condescending explanations implying it's no harder for her to lose weight than it is for me to keep on being skinny, and not a lot that's actually helpful to anyone that already understands the basic nutrition. And then, frustrated, and fed up with constantly feeling hungry despite barely running a calorie deficit at all, she gives up. Here is a show called 'Secret Eaters' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf0Epf_O6EA This is your wife's problem. She's not eating 'equal or even less' than you are and is morbidly obese. While you're around her, she eats equal or less than you do, and when you're not around she keeps on eating. She probably doesn't even realize how much she eats, but she does. If she didn't, she'd be thin. It's not rocket science. It's really easy. As I said, the most important thing when it comes to weight loss is honesty, and either she's not honest with herself, not honest with you, or you're not honest with us. Because there is no way that a woman who eats under her TDEE will keep on gaining weight. Watch that show, make her watch that show, and hopefully she'll realize her problems. I'm not trying to bash you, by the way, what you are doing is very common when it come to thin spouses or relatives of really obese people who try and defend them. You're doing an exaggerated version of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to7BMBJR9P4 You have no idea how many times I've heard 'oh she eats better and even less than I do [even though she's 100 pounds heavier than I am]' and it's never true. Laws of physics just don't change based on differing perceptions of reality.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:12
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Even if it is put in a mean way, she should really focus more on the message itself rather than how it is said. It is very important that a person educates themselves on basic nutrition. She also needs to understand it might be necessary to step out of one's usual comfort zones to make a difference. When she is hungry, what kind of hunger is it? A few hunger pangs with cravings? That low-level of hunger is temporary, and can be mitigated by drinking lots of water. Of course, there's always the simple method of eating foods that are low on calories but are also filling and leave you satisfied. It's almost like cheating! And Twee is right, a HUGE part of weight loss is learning to be absolutely honest with yourself and your own habits.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:15
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Zhentar posted:And then, frustrated, and fed up with constantly feeling hungry despite barely running a calorie deficit at all, she gives up. Welp. My wife and I got on the same page and it made it a lot easier for both of us. Get all of the junk poo poo food out of the house and show some solidarity. Ultimately though as long as there is an excuse and lack of willpower you can't blame the thousand other pseudoscience reasons why someone might not lose weight.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:16
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Also no soda. Only water.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:21
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Also no soda. Only water. So much this. It's amazing how many people are drinking 800 calories a day without realizing it. That new vanilla Pepsi or whatever also comes loaded with 60-some grams of carbs 
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Jul 15, 2014 22:24
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while I appreciate the weight loss chat, I'd also appreciate the thread going back to the actual subject in the title.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:31
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Fatkraken posted:while I appreciate the weight loss chat, I'd also appreciate the thread going back to the actual subject in the title. Seconding that request. If anyone takes any offense to the FAQ please take it to GBS and YLLS where we'll show why you're completely wrong. Otherwise, let's go back to sharing stories and problems people.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:34
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1st AD posted:Even if they are inaccurate (and you're gonna have to cite some sources here) the solution is still to eat less than you were before. You can't tell me that reducing portion sizes by say 30% of what you're eating currently isn't going to yield a change, inaccurate calorie counts or not. I actually think that the Atwater system is adequately accurate for estimating the caloric content of food for tracking diets, at least for the vast majority of foods. I mention it here though because it isn't totally consistent with the general attitude. As far as the accuracy of the labels that get put on food, not a particularly scientific source, but here's this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/opinion/calorie-detective.html?_r=0 And I won't try to tell you that won't yield a change, either. But I think there are two major issues that stem from the attitude that promote failure. First is that it encourages overestimating results. "Well, your resting rate is 2500 calories, you'll go on a 2000 calorie diet, and lose a pound a week!" But then their resting rate is actually 2400, which then that drops to 2350 in response to the diet, and their consumption is actually 2200 calories despite labels saying it's 2000 calories. They're going through just as much perceived effort and only getting a fraction of the expected results. The other issue is that the calorie-centric view encourages poor nutrition choices that can make sticking to the restricted calorie diet much more challenge. For example, rice cakes are sometimes promoted as a good diet snack (only 35 calories!). But they are empty calories, and they'll usually just end up making you more hungry. As a side note, my wife has successfully lost weight in the past through calorie counting, but it encouraged her to obsess over food constantly, make poor decisions in fear of going over her limit, and to eat things just because ended up with calories to spare and who knows when she'll have the opportunity again. It ended up being an even worse attitude towards food than the things that encouraged her to overeat, and wasn't really sustainable for the long term.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:47
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Zhentar posted:
Except that this system has worked for millions of people ever since you've had people keeping track of them online we can point out to. And the whole scientific body of research on the subject all says that's how you do it. quote:The other issue is that the calorie-centric view encourages poor nutrition choices that can make sticking to the restricted calorie diet much more challenge. For example, rice cakes are sometimes promoted as a good diet snack (only 35 calories!). But they are empty calories, and they'll usually just end up making you more hungry. 'Empty calories' are not a thing. A calorie is a calorie no matter where you get it from, the reason why you'll be hungry after eating a 35 calories snack cake is because it's loving 35 calories. Get out of this thread. You have no idea what you are talking about and actively harming people who might buy into what you're saying (and please don't people he's completely wrong and there's a good reason why he keeps spewing this here instead of YLLS or GBS where he'd get ran out with tar and feathers because of how terribly wrong he is). quote:As a side note, my wife has successfully lost weight in the past through calorie counting, but it encouraged her to obsess over food constantly, make poor decisions in fear of going over her limit, and to eat things just because ended up with calories to spare and who knows when she'll have the opportunity again. It ended up being an even worse attitude towards food than the things that encouraged her to overeat, and wasn't really sustainable for the long term. Except that studies have shown that such weight loss ARE sustainable in the long run when people keep counting their calories for years. Your posts are terrible, this is not what the thread is about, so get out.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:00
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Oh my god dude seriously she just needs to eat fewer calories stop sperging out about it and making up excuses. Everyone who loses weight uses the loving labels and it works for them and 2000 calories isn't even in the ballpark for decent weight loss for most people. EAT LESS LIFT A WEIGHT GO RUNNING BACK TO THE TOPIC
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Jul 15, 2014 23:00
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Zhentar, there is a thread in gbs for topics related to fat acceptance, if you want to discuss such things.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:14
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I don't know if it's too YLLS or not but i'd actually like to see a fit "normal" weight persons food log just to see how much a perosn of that weight SHOULD be eating, realistically. Anyone got one?
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Jul 15, 2014 23:38
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Zhentar posted:To restate all that from the personal perspective view... she sees me eat as much or more than she does, and usually choosing less healthy foods than she does, and putting forward less effort to get exercise. And I'm a stick while she's very much not. This gets rather frustrating. When she seeks advice for overcoming the challenges she faces trying to lose weight, what she finds are condescending explanations implying it's no harder for her to lose weight than it is for me to keep on being skinny, and not a lot that's actually helpful to anyone that already understands the basic nutrition. And then, frustrated, and fed up with constantly feeling hungry despite barely running a calorie deficit at all, she gives up. Get your wife an account and have her come join us in the weightloss challenge thread in YLLS. Ninhydrin runs an amazing weigh in system where you log your losses (or gains, the occasional hiccup or plateau is gonna happen for most people) every week and can get encouragement or advice from people doing the same thing as you and facing all the same problems and challenges. She can post all this bullshit and excuses in there and see what sort of advice people have, as many of them probably harboured similar beliefs and can talk her through how they got over them and started consistently achieving their goals.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:42
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Abu Dave posted:I don't know if it's too YLLS or not but i'd actually like to see a fit "normal" weight persons food log just to see how much a perosn of that weight SHOULD be eating, realistically. Anyone got one? approximately 2000 calories for an average woman and 2500 for a man, a bit less if they are small and rather more if they are more active than average and quite a lot more if they are doing significant weight training and gaining muscle mass. The exact makeup of those 2000 calories will make little difference to their weight, though of course it would affect their health, you can be skinny on a lovely diet. The log will look completely different depending on the makeup of their diet. A big mac, large fries, a large shake and an apple pie could make up the entire daily intake for a woman, or they could eat a decent breakfast, a large salad lunch with a lean dressing and a large meal of chicken with lots of vegetables AND several snacks to hit the same amount. Fried, fatty and high sugar foods can be spectacularly calorie dense, green vegetables the opposite. The difference in the volume of food for two 2000 cal days at different ends of the spectrum is astonishing. Fatkraken fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 23:45
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Abu Dave posted:I don't know if it's too YLLS or not but i'd actually like to see a fit "normal" weight persons food log just to see how much a perosn of that weight SHOULD be eating, realistically. Anyone got one? Your weight in pounds and then add a zero to the end of that up to a maximum of 2500 calories unless you are looking for gains. No big mystery. Check the general diet and exercise sticky for more info.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:49
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A calorie log for "normal" is kind of useless because some people have more muscle, some are taller, some are more active, etc. If you want to lose weight, eat less than you are eating.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:50
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Abu Dave posted:I don't know if it's too YLLS or not but i'd actually like to see a fit "normal" weight persons food log just to see how much a perosn of that weight SHOULD be eating, realistically. Anyone got one? *Somtiesm there is a tacquito for breakfast * Powerful lunch * Medium dinner
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Jul 15, 2014 23:53
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I'd really prefer if we let the obese and ex obese people actually answer the question instead of arguing about weight loss I'm interested to know how you guys felt about your place on the, uh, obesity spectrum. Did you say to yourselves "well, I'm not that fat, I can still [walk/run/shower/leave my bed/sit up unassisted]" since there are always news stories about some 650 lb person who is confined to their bed? If you didn't know about people way bigger than you, would it have made you feel better, worse or would it have made no difference? Fatkraken fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 23:55
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still lolling at people posting in this thread like it isn't just a honeypot for mining quotes to dump in the GBS fat people thread
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Jul 15, 2014 23:58
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Abu Dave posted:I don't know if it's too YLLS or not but i'd actually like to see a fit "normal" weight persons food log just to see how much a perosn of that weight SHOULD be eating, realistically. Anyone got one? It's not YLLS as much as boring for most people to read about what people are eating, but here we go. Here's what I ate on my last rest day (6'0", mid-160s with around 10% bodyfat) breakfast (about 500 calories) 2 cups of coffee (black with 1 sugar), a bowl of cereals, a banana and a cup of strawberries lunch (about 900 calories) cream of tomato soup with goat cheese and nuts, with a panini (vegetarian with some more goat cheese) dinner (about 900 calories) 2 chicken breasts with a side of rice and vegetables and glass of juice to wash it all off snacks (about 250 and 400 calories respectively) greek yogurt with cut up strawberries and a brotein smoothie That comes out at around 2850 calories but I work out 6 days a week and I'm trying to go for lean gains so I'm eating more than I would normally. So yeah if you remove the brotein smoothie that's that kind of food a regular 'fit' person who is very active eats at my height and weight. If I wasn't as active, I'd have no snacks at all and those three regular meals would be enough.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:59
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Everblight posted:still lolling at people posting in this thread like it isn't just a honeypot for mining quotes to dump in the GBS fat people thread The only people we have mocked so far is Zenthar. Not only did I initially tell everyone in that thread not to do that in the first place, but everyone in the GBS thread universally agrees that it's a great thread (aside from the stupid Zenthar derail) and really interesting to read. It came out because we were asking vyst a bunch of questions about what it was like because a lot of us have no idea what people who are morbidly obese have to go through. I've also had a couple of people who didn't post here contact me through pm to thank me and ask me questions and advice on how to get back in shape, and I've asked them to stay in touch and those people really made my day. So, no, this is not in any way a honeypot thread. Now that we've had a weight loss complete with false and inaccurate pseudo-science and my personal food log, can we please go back to: Fatkraken posted:I'd really prefer if we let the obese and ex obese people actually answer the question instead of arguing about weight loss
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Jul 16, 2014 00:01
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Of course counting calories isn't 100% accurate but it's better than stuffing food in your maw without considering how heavy it's going to hit you. One of the first things I found out when I started counting calories was just how many calories seemingly innocent things were. There is no such thing as a "healthy" food when you are counting calories...200 calories of baked chicken is the exact same as 200 calories of a candy bar. The only difference is that the chicken is a meal that will fill you up and the candy bar will leave you wanting more...you start to make decisions on what you'd rather eat when looking at the amount of calories you have for the day. I've lost 25 lbs counting calories and I still eat fried chicken fingers and fries all the drat time. Get the myfitnesspal app and start counting everything you (or her) eat. No cheats, no this doesn't counts. Do it for a week and I think you'll be surprised just how many calories you're actually eating. That is of course, if she actually puts in everything she eats and doesn't continue to lie.
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Jul 16, 2014 00:36
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Fatkraken posted:Did you say to yourselves "well, I'm not that fat, I can still [walk/run/shower/leave my bed/sit up unassisted]" since there are always news stories about some 650 lb person who is confined to their bed? Yes, all the time. It seems to me that when you're in denial about your weight issues your brain will automatically make this kind of justification to fend off cognitive dissonance. For instance I've never been more obese than my sister or some of my other relatives, and I would compare myself to them at Christmas gatherings or whatever to feel better about myself; as though being comparable to them wasn't terrible in and of itself. Fatkraken posted:If you didn't know about people way bigger than you, would it have made you feel better, worse or would it have made no difference? I don't know it it would have necessarily motivated me to get healthy sooner, but the lack of easy justifications would most likely have made me feel worse.
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Jul 16, 2014 00:52
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I have another question for people who used to be overweight/obese. I know a lot of people who support fat activism like to post about their negative experiences with nutritionists/health educators/doctors/nurses and how they hate hearing from these professionals that they are unhealthy when they feel fine. So this begs the question, when you were overweight/obese was there anything say a doctor for instance could have told you or explained to you to make you motivated to lose weight? Anything they could have told you to help you with your health at all? I regularly count calories to make sure I'm staying under my maintenance weight and I can definitely attest that I should be losing weight at the number of calories I consume do to every BMR calculator I've tried. However finding the level of calories that it takes for you to maintain or lose is something that can easily be seen from trial and error. I'd suggest starting to try at the lowest estimate you'd seen for BMR and continuing to drop down by 50 calories until you can see on a scale that you're losing weight. I was never overweight but I got close and I did lose 30lbs in a year from diet and exercise, using calorie counting software (CRON-O-meter) and a 2 mile walk each day. It can be done.
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Jul 16, 2014 00:55
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Fatkraken posted:I'd really prefer if we let the obese and ex obese people actually answer the question instead of arguing about weight loss Also, if you have never been fat and are interested in stories like these, what is the curiosity with fat people? Do they serve a similar function if you're poor or hate your job, where you can say, "at least my body isn't a shameful prison."? Do you watch with hope that they'll get out of it and save their lives? Like, I can't watch hoarders or intervention or any of those shows because it's super uncomfortable for me to see people so hosed up, to say nothing of the shamelessly pornographic vision you get of how nasty and hopeless their lives are.
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Jul 16, 2014 01:14
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Rabble posted:200 calories of baked chicken is the exact same as 200 calories of a candy bar. Yup, it's the exact same
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Jul 16, 2014 01:27
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seacat posted:Yup, it's the exact same In terms of calories toward losing, maintaining or gaining weight? Absolutely. In terms of nutrition you get from it? Obviously not. But yeah eating 2000 calories of chocolate or 2000 calories of kale is the same when it comes to weight. Jack Gladney posted:Also, if you have never been fat and are interested in stories like these, what is the curiosity with fat people? Do they serve a similar function if you're poor or hate your job, where you can say, "at least my body isn't a shameful prison."? Do you watch with hope that they'll get out of it and save their lives? Well I already gave an answer to that in the OP, more or less. To me it's twofold: to understand why people let themselves become like that and what it's like to be like that, and to develop some compassion because I want to be able to help people that will need it once I graduate. The compassion aspect was spurned by this guy:  He is a personal trainer who had a lot of obese people quitting under him for being too harsh, and decided to see first hand what it was like to be morbidly obese. I can relate, I've help people before to shed some weight but I was kind of rough on the first few and realized that well not everyone would react or take well to bootcamp style 'don't give me that poo poo, give me 5 more instead' approach. In a single year that personal trainer went from that first picture to the second picture to the third picture. In a year. I watched his interview, and he was talking a lot about how he felt like and how it was like for him to become so fat, all the realizations he made and what it advantages it gives him to try and help people in the future. Now I'm obviously not gonna do that because well, gently caress that. The only morbidity I'll ever allow myself is curiosity. However, his whole idea of developing compassion and understand to be able to help people better stuck with me. I very much had an attitude of 'You're fat, it's easy to get fit stop eating so much' prior to my accident. When I went from really active to sitting all day and gaining those few extra pounds (20 to 30 or so) and feeling like absolute crap, it blew my mind. I thought that fat people were just basically lazy and decided just not to exercise, but I had never realized how just not doing sports and tacking on even a small amount of weight could make you feel so sluggish, weaker, tired and well depressed with yourself. As I said, as soon as I possibly could i immediately started training again but that mind blowing feeling never left: 'How can people tolerate living like that?'. I mean it just feels so amazing to be healthy and be able to do what you want to do when you want to do and all the perks of being fit, active and healthy I just couldn't wrap my mind around it and I started watching some shows about fat people but none of them really ever answered the questions I had. Then I started to post a lot in the FiB thread in GBS and vyst and a few others answered some questions and I realized that between those part of the ultimate transformation thread, and those of you who have yet to be part of it but will someday, this was a pretty good ground to ask all of those questions and try to get a dialogue going so I could put myself in their shoes and understand more what it was about. I'm not sure my answer is gonna be too typical of others who are interested in hearing those stories though.
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Jul 16, 2014 01:57
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seacat posted:Yup, it's the exact same Yes actually I explain the real difference in that 2000 calories of Snickers bars is 8 bars while 2000 calories of Kale is 58 cups. The same idea that a pound of feathers weighs the same amount as a pound of lead. The difference is that one fills a pillow and one is a paperweight. Counting calories really is a first step in the world of proper nutrition, not the end goal. You start looking for foods that are filling and low in calories i.e. "healthy foods". You pick up the good habits indirectly so it's a lot less of a system shock. Counting Calories is good for you! Try it
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Jul 16, 2014 02:25
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Some of us just want to watch the world burn calories and fat.
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Jul 16, 2014 02:28
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Jack Gladney posted:Also, if you have never been fat and are interested in stories like these, what is the curiosity with fat people? Do they serve a similar function if you're poor or hate your job, where you can say, "at least my body isn't a shameful prison."? Do you watch with hope that they'll get out of it and save their lives? Part of it is motivation whenever I'm feeling lazy or feeling like I haven't progressed enough towards my goals. The other part of it is I have lots of friends and family who struggle with weight and hearing someone who actually dropped 2 bills and how they dealt with it can give me a better understanding of how to approach their problems. Unfortunately, a huge part of it is mental and outside of pushing someone towards therapy, there's nothing you as an outsider can do for someone else.
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Jul 16, 2014 02:28
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Fatkraken posted:I'd really prefer if we let the obese and ex obese people actually answer the question instead of arguing about weight loss On the first question - my place on the obesity spectrum wasn't really surprising to me. I am disappointed in myself for being there at all, but basically I've never not been fat except for the first couple years of my life so I don't have a good feeling to spring back to, only hope. Obviously I take other people's word for it when they say it rules. The FA weirdos keep claiming that being fat is awesome and it objectively is not. So I'm going to believe the percentage of the population that can literally breathe easy. The one thing that does shock me is the way other women my height look at my weight. I have a great confusion about whether or not I look like they do. Because either I am way way bigger than I think (and trust me, I am very aware that I am humongous) OR those people are lying about their weight. If I never saw people bigger than me, I like to think I would still know that I was in hosed up shape. But it helps to strengthen my resolve when I see people who can barely lift their foot of the ground and it makes me upset and really uncomfortable. That's basically why I don't get too upset by normal sized people being uncomfortable or disgusted by me, because I'm twice their size and visibly less mobile so it's just perspective.
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Jul 16, 2014 02:40
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Zhentar posted:I actually think that the Atwater system is adequately accurate for estimating the caloric content of food for tracking diets, at least for the vast majority of foods. I mention it here though because it isn't totally consistent with the general attitude. As far as the accuracy of the labels that get put on food, not a particularly scientific source, but here's this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/13/opinion/calorie-detective.html?_r=0 I'm a grown man who works out for an hour a day, 6 times a week. I eat only 1600 calories a day in order to drop some weight. On what planet do you think an overweight, inactive woman is going to lose weight at ~2000 kcal? Can somebody overweight please tell us about their problems
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Jul 16, 2014 03:34
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One time I was at an amusement park and I got stuck in a turnstile because I was so wide, then I fell out the other side. True story. But no one laughed loud enough for me to hear it. Or my ears were burning too much with shame.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:45
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Actually that's the best change that you've said that I don't have to worry about not being able to do something anymore. If i want to go for a walk I don't have to worry about looking like I walked through a rain forest. If I want to hike I don't have to worry about having a heart attache. I still have some severe dysmorphism problems which suck suck suck but getting thinner opened a WORLD of opportunities. But even as a fat rear end I never got on the "Fat is beautiful" band wagon. I knew that being fat was disgusting and I hated on other fats who where ra-ra fat. Some of the message boards I was browsing where EXTREMELY pro fat and it helped contribute. If you really wanna see the worse of the pro fat movement visit a board like dimensions. http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=d35d54410284d8517953a21b973e0893&f=2 Some of their ideals on losing weight is disgusting too.
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Jul 16, 2014 04:05
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I've heard that it's common for both men and women who have been sexually abused to overeat as a way to become unattractive to the abuser so as to not be abused anymore, is there any truth to that? If that is true, than the people that are preaching that fat is beautiful are doing much more harm then they realize.
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Jul 16, 2014 04:19
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JibbaJabberwocky posted:I have another question for people who used to be overweight/obese. I know a lot of people who support fat activism like to post about their negative experiences with nutritionists/health educators/doctors/nurses and how they hate hearing from these professionals that they are unhealthy when they feel fine. So this begs the question, when you were overweight/obese was there anything say a doctor for instance could have told you or explained to you to make you motivated to lose weight? Anything they could have told you to help you with your health at all? I think fat activism is loving stupid. HAES is loving retarded and I would have said the same at my old weight of 500 lbs. It's like an alcoholic, or a drug addict. You know what you're doing isn't healthy and can kill you but you like the "high" too much to give a poo poo. That's the bottom line. Whether the high is the emotional salve of food or the relaxing feeling of not exercising it doesn't matter. You simply didn't get motivated enough by external forces to change your behavior. I think the only motivator that exists if you can't find your own spark is money. Charging sin taxes on fast food or soda or subsidize healthier options to make them more financially appealing (this will never happen). Because to the naked eye eating healthy on the go is more expensive than fast food (albeit cheaper if you plan your meals). I always wondered if a doctor went all "scared straight" on me if it would register but that never happened so I'll never know. I can tell you that when I see my blood pressure go from the 150's over 90's to 110's over 70's and my resting heart rate go from 85 to 49 over the course of my journey I get really excited of the prospects of my life having a future beyond the age of 40.
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Jul 16, 2014 04:25
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| # ? Apr 16, 2024 17:23 |
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I was obese my entire life until I hit 19, sitting at about 220 lbs at 5'10" and unable to do a single pull-up. I got in shapen after going to university because I was paying for the gym and by golly I was going to use it. A few days perusing the weight loss thread in YLLS a lot of willpower to quit eating and 6 months of hard work and I was 175 running 7 minute miles. But I was also an alcoholic and smoker, then subsequently epileptic, so I can't say my experience is particularly common among those working out. Besides, while the occasional accident had me put on a few pounds, but losing them is thoughtless compared to resisting the booze and smokes. My husband, however, is probably a better example of what you're looking for. When I met my husband he was a college student with some chunk to him, about 5'8" and 210 pounds. Not great, but he was a strong motherfucker whose chief vice was alcohol (though he was never a full blown drink-or-DT situation like me). After graduating though, things got rough. He was stuck with a sedentary job working third shift at a hospital lab, leading to hours that make it easy to laze about and eat junk. Worse, his co-workers gave him no end of poo poo every day for being a homosexual, he was stuck in that position for 3 years without recourse. Working in a hospital lab is high-stakes stuff where a wrong call could get someone killed, add on hostile coworkers and poo poo gets rough. I should also mentioned that he has an anxiety disorder. At his peak he hit 250 pounds, and we both knew something had to be done. There were a lot of facets to him (and me, ultimately) getting in better shape. The ones that were huge were stress management, food control and a big change in attitude. Stress management was the biggest issue by a mile. Working a high stress job with rear end in a top hat co-workers and having no buddies to blow off steam with after work is a big problem. Getting more friends with similar hours and, oddly enough, video games helped to provide a outlet other than frosties. He lost 30 pounds at least before switching to a friendlier work environment, at which point the weight has really started flying off. It was by no means the only factor, but it's the most important one because it drove his relationship with food and exercise into a negative place. Shaming would have had no place in that situation. Changing how we ate was easy for us. All my experience losing weight meant I knew what healthy food to eat and he had a technical degree as a cook. Combining our knowledge made for amazing food. Before long fast food became a desperate, disgusting meal for when there were no other options. Cheaper, tastier healthier food made it easy to get over all the crap. Ice cream and cookies are still delicious, but we tend to consume them in moderation. There's also daily habits that are easy not to think about, like getting a 800 calorie frappe from Starbucks every day before work. Those are a shortcut to obesity and kidney stones, but drat if the caffeine doesn't make em addictive and easy to drink every day. Gotta log all the calories so poo poo like that doesn't slip under the radar. The last thing is attitude, specifically overcoming the sense that being healthy just isn't something you can do. For us, this is something which was relatively minor for us (we're gay men, we're supposed to go against the grain a bit). I bring it up mostly because it's so bewildering and important to anyone trying to understand part of how people come to accept being fat. Many of us are familiar with the attitude that health at any size advocates have where they view being fat as normal. But the HAES people are just a fringe on the internet, like MRA groups. However, both groups reflect very hosed up attitudes that are way more subtle but significantly more widespread. My husband comes from a rural baptist town, the sort of place where everything is a sin - except gluttony. Everyone eats biscuts and gravy, eggs and cheese, baked pasta pizza, desserts made of condensed sugar and portion sizes that are absolutely crazy. In Secret Eaters they show fat people all the food they have eaten over the course of a week, the intent being to horrify people by making them face the fact that a ton of horrible poo poo is going in their bodies. The effect is striking; a big horrible buffet table filled with meat, cheese, sweets and no veggies. A display so disgusting that it shocks both the eaters and the viewers with just easy it can be to pile on a poo poo diet over the course of a week. A week. Those ridiculous tables are what you expect at a baptist pot luck after church, and church is 2-3 times a week. The thing is, everyone eats it all up without knowing any better. Everyone is overweight or morbidly obese. Everyone has an unhealthy relationship with food. People who do loose weight often do so through eating disorders or drug addition because nobody understands what it means to have a health relationship with food. Then everyone assumes the fatness, the heart disease and the host of other health issues are genetic. People are ignorant and hopeless, they hate themselves for being fat but see being fat as something fundamental to their identity. If you're going to be a personal trainer you won't be dealing with the HAES attitude. You don't just have to deal with a society where fat is becoming more 'normal' than ever. You have to deal with people from little subsets of society where fat is already normal, accepted, the standard and as fundamental to your body as the size of your nose. My advice for dealing with that sort of engrained outlook? 4 years of unprotected gay sex culminating in marriage seemed to work, but that seems impractical for a career guy.
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Jul 16, 2014 04:37
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