why don't people just abort every down syndrome baby

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > why don't people just abort every down syndrome baby

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

like 98% do get aborted so :shrug:

# ¿ Jul 11, 2014 18:46

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 06:34

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

BUSH 2112 posted:

Not really the point. Refusing to abort a fetus with a debilitating condition because of some idealistic view of humanity is essentially the same as choosing to give that person the condition (if you live in a state where abortion is actually relatively easy to get.) Quality of life isn't the point, the point is that you're going to be robbing an actual adult human being of agency, rather than terminating an unconscious fetus.

Not everyone with downs has lack of agency, there are some very mild cases

i actually had a house inspection done by a guy with very mild downs. Whether or not that was a good decision on my part is another discussion entirely. Dude completely missed the fact that the oven didn't work.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2014 21:02

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

Clochette posted:

How did this subject come up? Do either of you have a family history of Down's syndrome or what?

idk maybe it seems like a legitimate worry for a lot of potential parents?

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 19:01

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

Old Dirty Cumburgs posted:

Hmm. I think this should go to Debate and Discussion, the forum for debating.

this is the third thread in three clicks youve posted that

# ¿ Jul 30, 2014 19:47

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

Lazyfire posted:

So what your saying is that Americans are idiots about fetuses? Color me surprised.

Also they won't inoculate them and they will die horrible painful miserable deaths

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 14:23

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

dontcareaboutname posted:

does this mean we should ban kill or steralize all immigrants who never got any vaccines? I'm in favor of tossing them into the ocean to keep their diseases away.

do you have to try to be so aggressively stupid or does it come naturally?

# ¿ Jul 31, 2014 15:30

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

page 1-10: parents of DS kids: "no it wasnt a bad decision it is enlightening and rewarding" *gets called out by the thread*
page 11-16: people who work with ds kids: "it was enlightening and rewarding" *gets called out by the thread*

the Pixies fukken SUCKED fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Aug 4, 2014

# ¿ Aug 4, 2014 20:18

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

i'm not sure where this thread turned into people playing grabass over 'education credentials' in a thread about Syndrome of a Down, but apparently someone forgot to put up the gbs 1.0 caution tape because wow, i don't think i'd ever see someone get called out for volunteering with ds kids and saying it was fulfilling. in the same thread that people were shouting down therattle for his parenting decisions, no less.

usually i can follow the groupthink opinion, but this thread is really confusing

point being if people want to have ds kids they're going to do it, and then spend their lives justifying that decision. i dont think people deserve to be labeled drains on society if they choose to raise a ds kid, there are many other disabilities and illnesses that are an equal much bigger burden (substance abuse, etc.)to families and society at-large (e.g. my tax dollars, whatever). though tbf, megagatts laid it out near the beginning of the thread what usually happens with this kind of thing, but like any other part of parenting you make decisions based on the information you have and is important to you. some of it you are going to regret, though like any other parent you'd never admit it out loud.

that being said, coming into what obviously started out as a joke thread and laying down the morality card is pretty dumb too - i am not sure what people thought was going to happen.

the Pixies fukken SUCKED fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Aug 5, 2014

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 05:00

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

Roki B posted:

Friendly reminder that TAD went and memory hole'd his stupidity in posts after getting called out and owned.

i dont think anyone but you really gives a poo poo about your dumb four page derail. you're both falling over yourselves trying to one up the other, and everyone is dumber for it

the Pixies fukken SUCKED fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Aug 5, 2014

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 11:50

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

therattle posted:

Good god, can't you read? I'm a man, not a woman. My son is 3 now. For the benefit of those who have fully functioning brains but seem unable to use them properly (i.e., most of you), here is a summary of my posts. Your sincere concerns are addressed if you can read this much.

1. This isn't a moral issue for us. I don't believe that people whose foetuses are diagnosed with Down's should necessarily keep their babies. In many cases abortion will be the right choice. However, the question was "Why don't people just abort every Down's Syndrome baby". I am saying that in specific circumstances, people might choose to go ahead with the pregnancy, and here are some reasons why. We are not religious, by the way.

2. The specific circumstances in my case are: i) low chance of having another child due to fertility issues; ii) my wife feeling like it would be very hard for her to terminate, because even though Down's was diagnosed, our child would still be a person*, capable of loving, and being loved (both of which are very true); iii) we made our decision after numerous ante-natal scans confirmed no major brain, heart, bowel or other issues; iv) we live in a country with excellent public health; v) we have sufficient money to pay for additional care for our son during our lives and thereafter; vi) we recognise that he might live with us for our/his whole lives, and that's OK; and vii) we know that caring for him will be a life-long thing (the extent is TBD), and we are prepared to do that, and to make arrangement for him after our deaths.

3. The argument that we had him because we are selfish is true. However, who doesn't have children for selfish reasons? Do you really think that the cunts posting here will better the world through their offspring, and that's their motivation? As for the burden we are placing on society etc, someone else posted here (rightly) that if you or your family needed something from the state or community, you wouldn't give a poo poo about society then. The fact that we have some resources to fund things ourselves also mitigates this criticism.

4. "We are awful people for condemning our son to a life of ill health and misery". It is true that there is an elevated chance of a range of health conditions. That is inarguable. We did make our choice after major congenital ones were ruled out though. What is also inarguable, despite best efforts or simply willful refusal to accept it, is that people with Downs are generally much happier than the general population. So if you really want to spare your children a life of misery, have a kid with Down's, not a normal one. (My initial argument with my wife when I wanted to terminate was how miserable his life would be. I started doing research to validate my claim, but I could not find any evidence, despite best endeavours. I really wanted to find out that people with Down's have grim lives, but it just isn't the case. If only I'd asked goons, seeing how well-informed you all seem to be).

5. The inability of people with DS to care for themselves is overstated ITT, in some cases obscenely, e.g., people with DS are "potatoes" who poo poo themselves aged 53. I know a little girl who was toilet-trained at 2; we are starting my son, who just turned 3, now. He is starting to read, and can already read his name, "mummy", "daddy", "go", and other words. I don't know how much of the anecdotal "evidence" presented here is based on older people with DS, but in recent years there has been a recognition that childhood support and intervention makes a dramatic difference to the development of people with DS. Older people with DS will in all likelihood not have benefited from the same interventions that children with DS do today.

* By referring to people with Down's as Downies or, more commonly, retards, you dehumanise and "other" them, and thus make it easier to give vent to your hatred and disgust. I tend to use "people with Down's" because that places their personhood first. These 'retards" that you joke about setting free in forests or whatever are actually people, real, living, breathing people with hopes, fears, and the whole gamut of human feelings. God help you if you ever need help of some kind, and those around you are like you.

What did you honestly expect to happen when you seriousposted in this thread? I mean come on. It's super cool how you have profiled every poster here as a monster (just like you don't want people to do to you and your child) just because people made retard jokes on a comedy website. How do you think first responders and medical professionals deal with trauma events and constant death and depressing stuff around them? Are you going to villainize them too for being insensitive, even though it's not to your face? Or is that somehow okay because it doesn't involve downs syndrome?

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 15:39

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

therattle posted:

Some posters have absolutely been cool (and this wasn't really aimed at them) but the general tenor has been pretty gross. I shouldn't have expected more, and didn't, but saying "oh, it's just GBS" to make hatred and prejudice somehow acceptable isn't right. What I write might not have any effect on the most vociferous posters but others might be able to get some understanding of where I'm coming from. Your analogy doesn't really hold up as the people writing the most egregious posts are not, I suspect, for the most part those who do or have worked with the mentally disabled. It's more like bystanders watching first responders and making jokes.

i think your problem here is you're trying to rationalize gbs posting

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 16:12

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

imagine the movie Gattaca if all the natural-borns were played by Downs actors

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 16:21

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

concerned mom posted:

Gatttaca

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 16:27

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

PostNouveau posted:

I've heard from people who want to be parents that it's just something that you start obsessing about when you get deep into a relationship. "What would a combination of the two of us be like?" So I gotta think when the universe's answer to that question is "Very abnormal," you start rationalizing.

you're already giving up everything to fate anyway. i really am not going to fault a guy who may have his only shot at a biological kid for wanting to go with it. so he doesn't want to adopt? you can't make people adopt any more than you can make people terminate a pregnancy.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 16:48

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

Quickscope420dad posted:

Having a baby should be illegal

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 17:00

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

therattle posted:

She didn't feel that she could face an abortion just because the child was flawed. She believes that all people, even if 'broken", "worthless" and "potatoes", have value, can love, and be loved. I think she's right. If I had said that I simply couldn't bring myself to be the father to a disabled child, she probably would have terminated the pregnancy (and we probably would have been divorced and miserable).

I hate to say it but there's a very good chance you didn't avoid this possibility and instead chose to kick it down the road. Not making GBS threads on you but from how you framed this infers 'well if i dont have this kid i'll get a divorce' and that isn't a decision made with a clear head.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2014 21:37

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# ¿ Apr 26, 2024 06:34

the Pixies fukken SUCKED: Jul 16, 2003; Figure 2 in a series of 3

Whatev posted:

I would know, as I have been in fights with many people with down syndrome

are you like, the bull-baiter for an underground downs syndrome fight club or something

# ¿ Aug 25, 2014 15:43

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > General Bullshit > why don't people just abort every down syndrome baby