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Up until this January I was a member of a programme aimed at struggling musicians, where I had been for about six years. This programme taught some music stuff, but the overwhelming majority was about becoming successful in your career. The course’s material was built around (or just plain plagarised from) books such as “The Secret”, “The Science of Getting Rich” and in particular Napoleon Hill’s “Think and Grow Rich”. It would take you very little time at all on Google to find out who I am, what this programme was, and who runs it. I would ask you kindly not to do that, and if you do, not to share it or ask about it here. The individual concerned is notoriously litigious and what I want to discuss is not the detail of my experiences in what was alarmingly close to a cult, but to talk broadly about what these books teach, what they get right, what they get wrong, and what I learned from six years down the rabbit hole. These gurus are ten-a-penny. By coincidence, I spent some of my time as a struggling musician in a dismal shared house in one of the roughest parts of London. I was pretty broke, but not as broke as the guy who lived down the hallway, who was constantly behind with his rent and kept having to borrow tube fares off the rest of us … in order to travel to conferences where he would try to sell people bullshit courses on getting rich! I actually really liked the guy, but he was clearly cognitive dissonance personified. Most of the people involved in the “success” industry are, in fact. And very, very few of them, either the ones selling the courses or the people buying them, are in fact ever successful. A potted history of “New Thought” literature The three most important books in the “success” movement (also known as the “New Thought”) movement are the three books I mentioned above. As part of my indoctrination, I was strongly encouraged to read all three of these, particularly “Think and Grow Rich” which I have read over thirty times. “The Science of Getting Rich” by Wallace D. Wattles was published in 1910, and is probably the first book recognisable as a "New Thought" philosophy. Despite the use of “science” in the title, there is a strong religious element to the book, from Wattles’ own past as a Methodist. Wattles provided little by way of empirical evidence for his claims and so the book's impact was limited at the time. However, the movement later picked up on it as the earliest expression of New Thought philosophy, and when it went out of copyright a lot of gurus began to co-opt it and publish it themselves with revisions and commentary (and of course courses on it that you have to pay for). The movement truly took off when journalist Napoleon Hill was commissioned by steel magnate Andrew Carnegie to interview 500 of the world’s richest men (and they were all men) and find out what they had in common. His conclusions, published in 1937 as “Think and Grow Rich” were almost identical to those of Wattles, except that the role of religion was downplayed and replaced by a vague pseudo-scientific spirituality that the book doesn’t really explain in any depth. Unlike Wattles' book, however, Think and Grow Rich named names, and made the direct claim that specific named people, notably Carnegie (the richest man in the world at that time) had used these methods. Whilst the theories in these books were always influential in some entrepreneurial circles, the New Thought movement didn’t break into the mainstream until the publication of Rhonda Byrne’s “The Secret” in 2006. Byrne covered very little ground that hadn’t been covered in the earlier books, however she was careful to remove the references to God and the rampant sexism that is found throughout “The Science of Getting Rich” and the racism that pervades “Think and Grow Rich”, making it a politically correct tract designed to merge more closely with contemporary New Age thought. Previous New Thought books were aimed at businessmen and those who desired wealth. "The Secret" broke the movement wide open by aiming at a general audience, to huge commercial success. What does the “New Thought” movement teach? One important thing to understand is that all these books and courses and gurus teach exactly the same thing, that can be explained in a handful of paragraphs. Everything else is just filler or an attempt to sell you more crap. The New Thought movement has its philosophical genesis in the Idealist philosophical school. This school, epitomised by thinkers such as Hegel, Berkeley, Schopenhauer and Kant, posits that the universe is a fundamentally mental, not a physical, entity. We can only engage with the universe through our minds, and whilst we see and experience things as physical, those physical sensations are still mental in nature and do not exist outside our subjective mental experiences. Physical reality is an illusion created by our minds to make sense of the universe; the true nature of the universe is that it is made out of “mental stuff” – thought. Whilst idealism is a bit out of fashion in modern philosophy it has never really gone away and is still highly influential, especially in spiritualist and New Age circles. The New Thought movement basically holds that if the universe is made up of thought, and our minds can create thought of their own, then you can use your mind to manipulate reality to your own advantage like some kind of superhero. They claim that all the most rich, powerful and successful people in history have, often unwittingly, created success by using the power of their mind to bend reality to their wishes. What may look to the outsider like “luck” is in fact the result of the mental manipulation of the laws of probability by minds that have broken through the veil of physical reality and are manipulating the real, mental universe directly. The movement’s books are remarkably consistent in how they claim this is possible. They teach: 1. You must have an overwhelming, emotionally potent vision of where you want to be that you think about constantly. “Think and Grow Rich” mandates two meditation sessions per day at least. 2. You must have complete certainty that you will succeed in this goal. Any doubt, or the nagging belief that this is all a load of hogwash, will cause your mental superpowers to not work. Maintaining an iron grip on your emotions is the key, if you think “negative” thoughts, negative things will happen and that will be YOUR fault. 3. You must totally, fundamentally believe that no external restrictions or events will keep you from your goal. You’ve got loving superpowers and can manipulate luck, so if something comes out of left-field and fucks up all your plans it’s your fault because you should have used your Magneto powers to make that not happen to you. 4. If you’re not getting the results you want, it’s not because this is a load of bollocks, it’s because you’re NOT BELIEVING HARD ENOUGH. Double-down on steps one to three and try again until you get what you want. 5. Something about “expressing gratitude to the universe” or some poo poo. Congratulations. I just told you what some people sell three-year courses and charge thousands of dollars to tell you. You’re welcome. Hail Xenu. Why some of it actually isn’t bullshit. What makes these movements so attractive is that there’s some genuinely good life and business advice thrown in with all the psychobabble. Of course you’ll succeed better if you have clearly-defined and thought-through aims and goals for your life. There’s plenty of actual science to back that up. But of course the reason those people do better in life is because having a clear set of life goals that you are passionate about lets you make better decisions and set better priorities than people who drift through life aimlessly. Likewise, there is a scientifically-proven link between a belief that “you make your own luck” and better life outcomes, particularly in income. But again, that’s not because these people are attracting money to themselves with mystic voodoo, it’s because they plan ahead, make contingency plans, and spend more time thinking about how to solve their problems than complaining about them. A victim mentality absolutely will wreck your life chances. Other people, circumstances, or cruel fate, may well be to blame for your problems. But the responsibility for fixing those problems is yours and yours alone. That’s not fair. But it’s also true, and that’s a painful life lesson that some people never learn. Why most of it is bullshit and how it ruins lives Whilst your thoughts and actions may be the most important thing determining your chances in life and business, they are not the only ones. The New Thought movement maintains that the way the universe works is: Our thoughts -> Influence -> Our emotions -> Which influence -> Our Decisions -> Which influence -> Our outcomes. That’s not untrue, but there is also an arrow going the other way. Negative life events can bypass your rational thought process entirely and directly affect your emotional state. The human decision-making process is much less rational than we like to think. But New Thought teaches that these mechanisms are either illusory, or that they can be suppressed by sheer will. And of course that’s not true, which leads to cognitive dissonance. What is most dangerous, and what makes these courses and communities resemble religious cults, is that the solution to failure is more of the same. Just as the cult leader will tell you that the fact that you haven’t got what you wanted from his religion is due to you not having enough blind faith in it, New Thought gurus will tell you that if you haven’t reached your goals it is because you have not controlled your emotions enough and have doubted the programme too much. Rather than respond rationally, the victims are encouraged to double-down, and actually increase their certainty in the efficacy of the methods they are being sold despite the evidence actually pointing the other way. That’s what happened to me. The guru I followed had succeeded in many ways that I wanted to succeed, and was offering to teach me how he did it for a price that I thought was reasonable (and to be fair was considerably less than most self-help gurus tend to charge). I started applying the methods, and when they didn’t seem to achieve much for me, I was egged on by him and his small army of true believers to do the same thing, but more. By the end I had worked 7 days a week for five years, non-stop, making some progress but falling well short of my goals. My body and my mind could take the stress and the cognitive dissonance no more and at the beginning of this year I had a severe depressive breakdown and I ended up in therapy. I think this thread is part of that therapy. I want everyone reading to understand how even very smart, educated people can fall for this stuff and that no matter how smart you think you are, you can fall for it. In many cases, the people teaching these courses are as much suckered by it as the people they teach. I don’t want anyone else to go through what I did, but I am ready to talk about it, except that I will not discuss the details of the programme I was in because I respect the privacy of the people who are still there, and because, like any cult apostate, I am persona non grata and this guy has made all kinds of legal threats against ex-students in the past. I also want to make clear that there are some genuinely helpful life lessons that I got out of this and I would like to share those where I can. Despite everything I didn't lose that much. I didn't spend that much money (some people re-mortgage their houses for this poo poo, I was out a few hundred bucks) My music career is doing OK, I'm financially secure and have a good income from my dayjob as well. I've got therapy and come out a better person. Not everyone gets so lucky. If you are currently following "The Secret" or a mentor/guru teaching this stuff No doubt you have had some very strong reactions to reading this. For the most part, you probably think I'm a loser who wasn't able to implement the programme properly and now I'm attacking it like some kind of bitter failure. You're feeling guilty about even reading it because it's full of "Negativity". You may be following the advice that my mentor gave me, which was not to engage with skeptics because they're losers who will infect you with their bad vibes. But do one thing for me. Humour me. As you react to what I have said, think about the reaction you are having and what you want to say to me. Then ask yourself: "Is this exactly what a Scientologist would say if that was the belief system being discussed?" Let it sink in and maybe draw your own conclusions. Or ask me a question. I spent six years up to my neck in this stuff. I can answer almost anything about it. So go ahead.
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Jul 14, 2014 17:39
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You say all the gurus are saying basically the same thing. Are there schisms over minor differences? Also, how does all this tie into various other pseudoscience?
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Jul 14, 2014 20:16
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How did you spend six years following this bullshit and not get out after (at most) a year of not seeing results? Cheap rent? If you think it's such hogwash, why have you read the doctrines "over 30 times"? How much overlap between PUA and Secreters is there? (if PUA hasn't made its way back across the pond, consider yourself lucky)
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Jul 14, 2014 20:43
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Spazzle posted:You say all the gurus are saying basically the same thing. Are there schisms over minor differences? Also, how does all this tie into various other pseudoscience? You're right that there's not much actual information in the core of this belief system, so each guy has his angle. In my case, the guy was offering information about the music industry, something which nobody else was. I was never interested in "Success Coaching", but I did want to be mentored in the music industry. I've never seen these guys attack each other, only say why they're the best mentor for YOU. That might be because they're attached to a certain industry, or because they have a compelling personal story (like Robert Kiyosaki or Brendan Burchard). On the business coaching side, you won't find it mixed in with much other pseudoscience, because these guys like to project an image of being no-nonsense businessmen. However a great deal of it has been co-opted by the New Age movement, and any spiritualist movement that claims that the physical world is just a veil (i.e. pretty much all of them) will use this stuff, often calling it "Affirmations". Plus Oprah endorsed The Secret, which I guess ties it to every single mad piece of pseudoscience in existence. Everblight posted:How did you spend six years following this bullshit and not get out after (at most) a year of not seeing results? Cheap rent? The guy who mentored me was genuinely a multi-millionaire (that part wasn't bullshit) and so I was pretty willing to go along with what he suggested because he said that this was how he got where he was. He created a closed, private forum and encouraged us to only work with other people within that forum, as people outside it "didn't have the right mindset for success", creating a hugbox/echochamber. Anyone who upset the boat swiftly got banned. And some of those people were genuinely very successful (quite a few more were way less successful than they let on, I know this because I was one of them). However, on reflection, the proportion of the people on that forum who were making good money versus those who failed was probably the same as any random sample of musicians. Just to be clear, this was an online programme - I met the guy in person a total of twice (though many other people went to see him far more often. I wasn't shut away in some cult camp. I had a job (two in fact), friends, family etc. It was just my outlook on the world and on myself that got hosed up. And I *did* get some results. That's the key, it's not 100% bullshit, there are a few principles (not to mention the music industry knowledge he was also selling) that will genuinely help you, but you don't need to swallow all the cod philosophy that comes with it. I did learn the basics of business and how to get along in the music industry, but he was very convincing in saying that all the music industry knowledge in the world won't help you if your mind isn't on the right track. Though some people had been there (by the time I left) 8-10 years and hadn't got anywhere at all. I can't speak for those guys. I read Think and Grow Rich 30 times because my mentor said that's what he did and it worked for him. And he was the most successful musician I knew. I was on that forum for six years, but I only paid for the programme for two years. After that I got the "privilege" of staying there for free and helping the new blood. I was hugely respected, and everyone told me how loving great I was all the time. for someone who has had low self-esteem all their life, that's a very powerful incentive to stick around. Everblight posted:How much overlap between PUA and Secreters is there? (if PUA hasn't made its way back across the pond, consider yourself lucky) The philosophies are very different, the methods are very similar. It's very tempting, for someone who is absolutely desperate for something (be it success in business or success with women), to let your guard down when presented with someone who says "I used to be like you, now I'm who you want to be. I can teach you a guaranteed formula that will get you what you want because it worked for me." That's extraordinarily compelling. The differences are that PUA (in as much as I understand it) is about blaming other people for your failures, whereas New Thought is about blaming yourself for everything that goes wrong in your life. I have always had a tendency to internalise any sense of anger that I feel - when life turns against me, I turn on myself, so I was particularly vulnerable to this sort of thing. Those who instinctively blame other people for their problems are attracted to being PUAs or SJWs.
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Jul 14, 2014 21:30
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Everblight posted:If you think it's such hogwash, why have you read the doctrines "over 30 times"? You can decide not to believe in God, and still have read the bible numerous times whilst you had faith. Axeman Jim was part of this for six years, and has realised the error in it since then. It would be worrying if he *hadn't* read the doctrines multiple times during his time on the programme. Thanks for posting this Axeman Jim, it's an interesting read. Out of interest, was the book, 'How To Win Friends and Influence People' part of your programme at all?
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Jul 14, 2014 21:34
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It was, though I wouldn't lump it in with the New Thought stuff and would still recommend it. But in tl;dr form, the book's message is: "Being nice to people gets better results than being lovely to them." You might think that's not exactly a stunning revelation, but then think about all the managers you may have had and how many of them would need that pointed out to them...
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Jul 14, 2014 21:41
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Axeman Jim posted:It was, though I wouldn't lump it in with the New Thought stuff and would still recommend it. I'm glad to hear this. I've read the book a few times myself and found it all to make good sense. Didn't want to throw it all out for fear of cognitive dissonance or something. 
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Jul 14, 2014 22:03
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I've done a bit of this stuff on the 'you're secretly a magician!' side of things. My dad had a opportunity to take a NLP(neuro linguistic programming) course and I went along. It was pretty much as you described, a lot of bullshit with the occasional piece of useful advice to try and convince people it's not a loving scam. It worked on my dad, who's wasted tons of time with these people, and ended up believing he's a reiki master. It's kind of sad, he'll wave his hands around, drawing symbols in the air, and talk about energy and auras, and how he can change them. The funny thing is, not long after he finished becoming a master of mystical energy(two weekend course, it's just that easy!), the guy who taught him, a morbidly obese man, had a heart attack and needed a triple by-pass surgery. But somehow watching this snake oil salesman completely fail to even maintain his own health has had no effect on my dad's belief in his magic healing powers, because, as you said, if any negativity comes into someone's life, it's because they created it themselves. They'll never really admit it, but their beliefs dictate that every person who's raped, diagnosed with a disease, injured in an accident, attack by an animal, or even stubs their toe, did or thought something to bring it on themselves. It's a very, very sick way to look at the world and congratulations on getting out.
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Jul 15, 2014 11:00
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One big issue is how materialistic these books are. I'm familiar with some of the philosophy and spirituality behind these books, and quite a bit of it is actually against materialism. After all, if the physical world isn't "real" then there isn't much point to getting a bigger house or newer car. It's actually fairly similar to the Prosperity Gospel movement in that it takes a fundamentally anti-materialist viewpoint, turns it on it's head to appeal to the greed of the followers, and then asks them for money.
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Jul 15, 2014 11:44
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Axeman Jim posted:I've never seen these guys attack each other, only say why they're the best mentor for YOU. That might be because they're attached to a certain industry, or because they have a compelling personal story (like Robert Kiyosaki or Brendan Burchard). A couple years later I came across this review which basically tore his book apart and I felt pretty deceived: http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html It was pretty sweet to see the bbc take the piss out of the whole movement too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPARaL3F498 I'm bitter, and I bought 3 books. I can't imagine how anyone who's dropped serious money of these things must feel about them.
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Jul 15, 2014 21:31
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Yeah I was lucky (or maybe just too loving tight) that I never spent a lot of money on this stuff. Kiyosaki's a colourful dude to say the least. I saw that review that you posted a few years ago. I love that the author says "Kiyosaki's books are just loss-leading shills for his stupid courses" on a site where every other paragraph screams "CLICK HERE TO LEARN THE SECRETS OF REAL ESTATE INVESTING!!!!" Like I said man, cognitive dissonance.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:42
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I can't fault Axeman for being duped for so many years. At the very least, their "proof" is anecdotal. I know a guy who used to be a famous artist. For the 10+ years, he has achieved nothing. He claims to be the most positive person around! He hates that I use the term "realistic" because that's negative. He believes cancer patients, etc. caused their illnesses. Mind you, his arthritis is very bad now and he claims it's a war injury. (He was a dental hygienist.) Since he found New Thought, he has had money stolen out of his mom's car (her fault for having a negative thought), bounces from house to house (mom, sister, and his best friend, a drug user & dealer and alcoholic), and rarely goes out because he usually has no more than $50. He claims he only hangs around those who are positive and show promise. He's 58 and only looks for girls with no self-esteem, including a 16-year-old girl. He dumps them soon, since they get stale or they catch on to his bullshit. He has said out right that he only hangs out with those who have something to give him. He does not return favors. Yet... It's not time for the Universe to work its plan for him. He told me once if you believe and visualize, it happens. He says making plans is stupid and negative because it causes negativity. That is what I consider the true face of New Thought and The Secret. Pseudoscience and psychobabble.
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Aug 29, 2014 23:42
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Dubh posted:I can't fault Axeman for being duped for so many years. At the very least, their "proof" is anecdotal. I know a guy who used to be a famous artist. For the 10+ years, he has achieved nothing. He claims to be the most positive person around! He hates that I use the term "realistic" because that's negative. He believes cancer patients, etc. caused their illnesses.  And pedophilia, apparently!
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Aug 30, 2014 01:05
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In most countries, the age of consent is 16 so I don't think it would count as pedophilia. Unbelievably creepy for a near 60 y/o man to date a 16y/o but not illegal.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:50
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Lord Windy posted:In most countries, the age of consent is 16 so I don't think it would count as pedophilia. Unbelievably creepy for a near 60 y/o man to date a 16y/o but not illegal. Not every act of moral turpitude is illegal. Still hosed up.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:57
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Do you see a lot of The Secret in everything else? For whatever reason, a college professor had Think and Grow Rich on our reading list, so I've always kept an eye out for that kind of woo New Thought BS. Just now, I'm downloading a podcast about the 'Rich Habits of Wealthy Individuals' (dude interviews 233 wealthy individuals and 128 poors). Which I can't wait to see how silly it is. This podcast, Bulletproof Radio, is fantastic to listen to with a grain of salt. For example, the new hotness in fitness/wellness is Bulletproof Coffee, where you add coconut oil and Irish butter to coffee. This supposedly primes your body to be perfectly prepared for daily activities. Coincidentally, the Bulletproof Radio guy also sells Bulletproof Coffee (designed to be perfect for mixing with coconut oil/Irish butter) and Bulletproof MCA, a blend of coconut oil and Irish butter. red19fire fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 09:52
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If someone's going to be throwing around the word 'Irish' with coffee, it better get me drunk.
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Aug 30, 2014 13:02
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red19fire posted:This podcast, Bulletproof Radio, is fantastic to listen to with a grain of salt. For example, the new hotness in fitness/wellness is Bulletproof Coffee, where you add coconut oil and Irish butter to coffee. This supposedly primes your body to be perfectly prepared for daily activities. Coincidentally, the Bulletproof Radio guy also sells Bulletproof Coffee (designed to be perfect for mixing with coconut oil/Irish butter) and Bulletproof MCA, a blend of coconut oil and Irish butter. Simpsons diddit, 1998: quote:Homer: Marge, how could you let me let myself go like this?
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Aug 30, 2014 16:40
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I knew about the Wattles book a long time ago. When I mentioned this to the acquaintance, he swore I was wrong. The Secret and Hill discovered this ancient secret and people like me are just being negative! The amount of mental acrobatics for this boggles my mind.
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Aug 31, 2014 02:55
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Anyone familiar with A Course in Miracles? I recently ended a relationship with someone who was into a lot of Oprah/Deepak Chopra etc. horseshit, but particularly that book. I guess it's a "scripture" whose source is Jesus Christ talking to some lady and having tried to read a few sections strikes me as really nutty, vapid Christianity-lite word salad with the central message that everything is love, love is the only thing that's real and everything that is bad (isn't love) is not real? There was a lot of meditation and positive affirmations involved, and it was a really convenient excuse to remove him (us) from any situation that was even slightly uncomfortable or unpleasant, because there was "negative energy" and he couldn't handle the "negativity." I was expected to be amazed at how he was "manifesting" such great things in his life, he'd blow off illness as all "of the mind." I still am baffled at how to deal with someone who thinks like that, he was impossible to reason with.
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Aug 31, 2014 03:48
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This is an amazing topic, thanks for sharing. I've read my fair share of 'think it into reality' articles, and as someone who once studied philosophy, I can see how people can be duped into a lot of these programs. I'm curious about what you learned about the music industry. I'm not in the English speaking world, I'm in Croatia, but I am a musician, and such info would come in handy. At the very least, it would satisfy my curiosity. I've never considered taking part in any type of New Thought program, and the one thing I've learned from everything I've read that falls into that category, is that any educated and eloquent person can come up with his/her own New Thought theory and sell it.
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Sep 1, 2014 20:15
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I know people who are big into this. MANY of them tie this onto other pseudo sciences like kinseology or shakara alingment or past life regression (clear the soul son it is ready to accept the law of attraction) The magic of thinking actually has some sound advice under the psycho babble... example: such as do the job title you want to have to get it instead of doing the job you have. Overall most of it is cultish psycho babble and often leads me to question if the people selling the crap are in on the fact its poo poo or if they actually believe it. One makes them assholes one makes them morons.
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Sep 1, 2014 20:33
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red19fire posted:This podcast, Bulletproof Radio, is fantastic to listen to with a grain of salt. For example, the new hotness in fitness/wellness is Bulletproof Coffee, where you add coconut oil and Irish butter to coffee. This supposedly primes your body to be perfectly prepared for daily activities. Coincidentally, the Bulletproof Radio guy also sells Bulletproof Coffee (designed to be perfect for mixing with coconut oil/Irish butter) and Bulletproof MCA, a blend of coconut oil and Irish butter. Oh jesus. So THAT'S where this poo poo came from. I work in the coffee industry in Australia and this seemingly random nonsense about putting oil and butter in coffee has popped up all over the place. I should have known it was some Oprah-esque stupidity. To add to the topic: Landmark Forums. Any connection, experiences? The converts seem particularly aggressive in their recruitment attempts, and it seems to be similar sort of stuff. The 'philosophy' seems fairly vague and impenetrable to outsiders though so I never really have a good handle on what they were going on about except that they sounded like creepy zombie-people. Chadzok fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 20:48
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Chadzok posted:To add to the topic: Landmark Forums. Any connection, experiences? The converts seem particularly aggressive in their recruitment attempts, and it seems to be similar sort of stuff. The 'philosophy' seems fairly vague and impenetrable to outsiders though so I never really have a good handle on what they were going on about except that they sounded like creepy zombie-people. Ask me about having a zombie friend that will probably die this winter in his car. gently caress landmark. Edit: oh yeah, forgot to mention how he turned down a call center job because it was for a night schedule and that would have interfered with his landmark classes. I loving want to cry or beat the crap out of him. AgrippaNothing fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 22:03
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Aristotle Animes posted:He's pushing 55, diabetic and living in his car. He will probably die on the street. I'm frustrated because all he ever talks about is his landmark crap... there's never a genuine conversation to be had with him with his proselytizing. That's what they do. They lie to themselves and think they're making it or the time is coming. If you show any doubt, you're negative and therefore an idiot. They'll spout rhetoric and claim they're doing fine. Just seeing it in your head makes you feel good for a few minutes. When it fades, you have to keep doing it. Eventually it's all they can do: imagine it. That's why I believe the ones spouting this crap and selling it don't believe it. They're just preying on the average guy while keeping their actual methods a secret. That Natural Cures guy does it, too. He'll charge you hundreds of dollars for "experts" but you'd never go anywhere.
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Sep 1, 2014 23:50
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Yeah whats his name has a law of attraction the sectet style audio series and at the end you can pay like a grand and 500 a month or some crap to get insider access and join his mlm bullshit.
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Sep 2, 2014 15:57
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tater_salad posted:Yeah whats his name has a law of attraction the sectet style audio series and at the end you can pay like a grand and 500 a month or some crap to get insider access and join his mlm bullshit. Bill Bartman does this, he's a millionaire who used to be 3 million in debt, and for just $$$ a month, you can chat with him online once a week for financial and business advice! My dad brought me to one of his seminars, and he made a huge deal about how he built his fortune from nothing, and rose out of debt, but it's loving impossible for someone with nothing to end up $3,000,000 in debt.
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Sep 3, 2014 14:52
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red19fire posted:This podcast, Bulletproof Radio, is fantastic to listen to with a grain of salt. For example, the new hotness in fitness/wellness is Bulletproof Coffee, where you add coconut oil and Irish butter to coffee. This supposedly primes your body to be perfectly prepared for daily activities. Coincidentally, the Bulletproof Radio guy also sells Bulletproof Coffee (designed to be perfect for mixing with coconut oil/Irish butter) and Bulletproof MCA, a blend of coconut oil and Irish butter. I should start a MCA blend but add some amphetamines in them so they actually work. There'd be a lot of money in it.
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Sep 5, 2014 16:55
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Pellisworth posted:Anyone familiar with A Course in Miracles? I recently ended a relationship with someone who was into a lot of Oprah/Deepak Chopra etc. horseshit, but particularly that book. I guess it's a "scripture" whose source is Jesus Christ talking to some lady and having tried to read a few sections strikes me as really nutty, vapid Christianity-lite word salad with the central message that everything is love, love is the only thing that's real and everything that is bad (isn't love) is not real? My dad keeps talking about it. It's all "you have to disentangle yourself from your ego" and "god is the universe". He also showed me The Secret and is way, way into all that craziness. I've had some talks with him, but I really don't see how to get someone out of it if they don't want to. I think it's pretty sad. That said, it's an interesting topic, if only for the morbid curiosity of what gets people trapped like this. I mean, I watched The Secret DVD and it was hillariously dumb. You really have to *want* to believe when it talks about your thinking making magnetic waves that fix the universe so you get a new bike, or whatever.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:14
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I think my favorite part of that BBC special was how, when asked repeatedly on follow-ups how much progress these people have been making toward their goals, they all were terribly evasive and said it was all about their preparation and not about the money they were supposed to have been earning. And the millionaires all admit that not everybody will become one of them, nor do they want everybody to. They're quite happy stating that they don't promise that everybody WILL become one, just that anybody CAN, "with the right training and mentorship". Which, obviously, they are providing. There are some people who can take a program like The Secret and run with it and get rich. Those people are the same kind of people who Get Things Done anyway, because they're A-type personalities with competitive streaks and a good sense for business. The kind of people who have to buy into classes to figure out that investing in assets like real estate is a great early retirement scheme generally aren't that good at Getting Things Done and are desperately looking for a tip or trick that will motivate them into doing the hard things in life (like putting 10% of your money into your savings every month instead of buying coffee). I have found several Early Retirement blogs online which trend in this direction as well. The difference is that most of them focus more on Getting poo poo Done than on planning it all out and making positive affirmations. They are also all free blogs, although some of them do sell packets on getting your financial poo poo together, which is mostly "How to Budget" and "How to Be Debt-Free In Two Years, A.K.A. Not Buying Anything But Ramen For Two Years". They do have some helpful tips, though, like "pay your high-interest debt first before you focus on your savings", and "don't loving buy a new car if you're already in debt, you loving moron". Stuff you'd find from BFC here, basically. Anyone who read the Cornholio thread knows it all already. Don't pay for these courses. Pay for Archives and read the Cornholio thread instead! You'll get a much better financial education and you'll be entertained along the way. Edit for question: OP, did you ever waste entire days "planning" how to make money instead of going out and, say, busking on a street corner to earn a few bucks? Did you consider this a good use of your time when you were doing it?
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Sep 8, 2014 14:12
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The James Randi Educational Foundation has a great series of free lectures available on YouTube about how intelligent people can fall for dubious claims. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8MfjLNsf_mg9p_Dl2jLbMPxiCVwhQ0-L The Secret and similar books were just blowing up when I was in college. It was upsetting to see misleading, pseudoscientific garbage being stocked in the campus bookstore. Bulletproof coffee sounds totally disgusting  It sounds like it would be an oilslick mess. What do you do, just shake it up and chug it before the fat and liquid separate? Ugh.
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Sep 8, 2014 15:10
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Poop Cupcake posted:Bulletproof coffee sounds totally disgusting Sounds like someone heard about a traditional way Ethiopians serve coffee, with salt and butter, and decided to "make it a thing." Even most Ethiopians don't like it, it's just tradition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_ceremony.
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Sep 8, 2014 21:09
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Poop Cupcake posted:Bulletproof coffee sounds totally disgusting I like my coffee preparation to take a half an hour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YjLMdx3YZY   VV It's legit. I've tried it (as cheaply and quickly as possible), It's delicious because it's a tablespoon of straight up butter in coffee. red19fire fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 06:23
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Holy poo poo, is that real or a spoof??
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Sep 9, 2014 06:26
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Why don't you just use cream and avoid the snake oil? Oh god the amount of pseudo-scientific buzz words about "impurities" and "metabolism". I'm going to sell unbothered with bread and I'll cut it with a scalpel to prove how sciency I am.
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Sep 9, 2014 07:28
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pippy posted:Why don't you just use cream and avoid the snake oil? Or use snake oil free butter. 50p per block in your local ASDA. Leave it out for a bit first and you can butter your toast with it too that way. Have you ever buttered toast with cream?
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Sep 9, 2014 15:35
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red19fire posted:
Not just butter yellow butter from grass fed cows, don't cheap out on butter from cows that were fed rocks and broken glass.
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Sep 9, 2014 15:43
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Aggressive pricing posted:Not just butter yellow butter from grass fed cows, don't cheap out on butter from cows that were fed rocks and broken glass. To be fair, grass v. corn fed does indeed affect the marbling qualities of beef. Grass-fed is leaner, corn-fed is fattier, to each their own. The only reason for grass-fed butter that I can think of is to put more money in that dude's wallet. Which is the same of all of this crap.
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Sep 9, 2014 15:56
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red19fire posted:This podcast, Bulletproof Radio, is fantastic to listen to with a grain of salt. For example, the new hotness in fitness/wellness is Bulletproof Coffee, where you add coconut oil and Irish butter to coffee. This supposedly primes your body to be perfectly prepared for daily activities. Coincidentally, the Bulletproof Radio guy also sells Bulletproof Coffee (designed to be perfect for mixing with coconut oil/Irish butter) and Bulletproof MCA, a blend of coconut oil and Irish butter. edit: $49.95 Bulletproof Sleep Induction Mat (cloth with circles all over it) $895 Focus Brain Trainer (electric headband) $1,495 Bulletproof Whole Body Vibration Plate (  )$5,500 Neuroptimal Personal Trainer Bundle (comes with Norton Antivirus) Absolute Lithops fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 21:00
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 03:28 |
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Aggressive pricing posted:Not just butter yellow butter from grass fed cows, don't cheap out on butter from cows that were fed rocks and broken glass. Goddamn that would be the angriest butter in the world.
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Sep 9, 2014 22:22
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