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 YE OLDE RULES OF BILL SHAXBERD CLUB
*such as The Scottish Play, The Unmentionable Play, The Bard's Play, etc., etc. Who is Bill Shaxberd and why should I care? Hi, and welcome to the William Shakespeare thread. I'm not going to insult your intelligence by trying to tell you who he is and why you should care--his globe-spanning influence on world culture should hopefully give you some idea. "Shaxberd" is, honestly, one of the ways "Shakespeare" spelt his name back in the day. I mean, honestly, can you even make this out:  No, this thread here is talk about Shakespeare's contribution to the literary world. He wrote dozens of plays, some sonnets, and a couple of longer poems. Talk about them here. If you haven't read them, you have access to his entire canon thanks to the internet. All of his works are available to freely read. But don't limit yourself to reading his works. Really, Shakespeare's works were meant to be viewed on stage. Of course, that's easier said than done, but thankfully Shakespeare has been translated to television, movie screens, comic books, manga, video games--you name it. His works are also referenced all over the place. If you've watched The Simpsons for any extended period of time, you've probably seen some Shakespeare references. Including that play. You may have had some experience with Shakespeare which left a bad taste in your mouth. Well, you're not the only one. Samuel Pepys, diary entry for 29 September, 1662 posted:This day my oaths of drinking wine and going to plays are out, and so I do resolve to take a liberty to-day, and then to fall to them again. To the King's Theatre, where we saw "Midsummer's Night's Dream [sic]," which I had never seen before, nor shall ever again, for it is the most insipid ridiculous play that ever I saw in my life. I saw, I confess, some good dancing and some handsome women, which was all my pleasure. But don't let some bitter memories from a bad class ruin the entire canon. Shakespeare was the Michael Bay of his time, and he's got something for everyone. Like crude humour? You're covered. Fart jokes? Old Bill's favourites. Violence, alcohol abuse, and wild sex? Oh boy, you bet. Sappy romances and touching comedies? He does those just as well as he does psychotic murder fests. So read Shakespeare and discuss him here. Oh, and before anyone says anything about how you can't understand him because he wrote in Old English or whatever--Shakespeare wrote in Early Modern English. It's very close to Modern English and with a little practice you can pick it up quite well. I recommend David Bevington's collected works of Shakespeare because it has fantastic critical essays, backgrounds on the era, and extended footnotes all there to guide you through any funny words. Because Old English actually looks like this: Hwät! we Gâr-Dena in geâr-dagum þeód-cyninga þrym gefrunon, hû þâ äðelingas ellen fremedon. Oft Scyld Scêfing sceaðena þreátum. Without further ado, here is Shakespeare's canon: THE PLAYS  The Comedies The Comedy Of Errors Love's Labour Lost The Two Gentleman Of Verona The Taming Of The Shrew A Midsummer's Night Dream Much Ado About Nothing · ACT I · ACT II · ACT III · ACT IV · ACT V The Merry Wives Of Windsor As You Like It All's Well That Ends Well Measure For Measure Troilus And Cressida  The Histories The First Part Of King Henry The Sixth The Second Part Of King Henry The Sixth The Third Part Of King Henry The Sixth The Tragedy Of King Richard The Third The Life And Death Of King John The Tragedy Of King Richard The Second The First Part Of King Henry The Fourth The Second Part Of King Henry The Fourth The Life Of King Henry The Fifth The Famous History Of The Life Of King Henry The Eight  The Tragedies Titus Andronicus Romeo And Juliet Julius Caesar Hamlet, Prince Of Denmark Othello, The Moor Of Venice King Lear That Play Timon Of Athens Antony And Cleopatra Corilanus  The Romances Pericles Cymbeline The Winter's Tale The Tempest The Two Noble Kinsmen  THE POEMS Venus And Adonis The Rape Of Lucrece The Phoenix And Turtle A Lover's Complaint The Sonnets 
Sally fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 15:59
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Just got back from watching Much Ado About Nothing performed on a small mobile stage in the grounds of Herstmonceux Castle by the Globe Theatre company. It was fantastic fun, such a great evening! It's not a play I'm familiar with, but it was performed really well and was hilarious. Way funnier than I expected it to be. Seeing it performed live made me enjoy it far more than those plays I read in school, I'm definitely going to watch more live performances. Also according to Wikipedia, there are several meanings to the play's title, one of which is a double entendre as "nothing" was Elizabethan slang for vagina.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:30
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Chris! posted:Also according to Wikipedia, there are several meanings to the play's title, one of which is a double entendre as "nothing" was Elizabethan slang for vagina. HAMLET Lady, shall I lie in your lap? Lying down at OPHELIA's feet OPHELIA No, my lord. HAMLET I mean, my head upon your lap? OPHELIA Ay, my lord. HAMLET Do you think I meant country matters? OPHELIA I think nothing, my lord. HAMLET That's a fair thought to lie between maids' legs. OPHELIA What is, my lord? HAMLET Nothing. OPHELIA You are merry, my lord.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:52
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And we'd be remiss to point out that "country matters" is another pun. Specifically, we should be paying attention to the first syllable of "country". Shakespeare's sex jokes were awesome and he makes a tonne of them. I don't actually remember much about Much Ado About Nothing. I powered through all of Shakespeare's canon a couple years ago to claim I did it, but skimmed through a lot of his Comedies and Romances because I am a huge no-fun having grouch who wants to just focus on his Histories and Tragedies. I plan on revisiting them because I know I didn't give them a fair shake. I know Much Ado had a Joss Whedon movie made a year or so ago, so it seems like a good time to re-read it. This brings me to another point I wanted to ask: Hieronymus Alloy made a good point with regards to threads about older literature, suggesting that they take a "Let's Read" approach to them. I think Shakespeare is a good focus for this idea considering how freely available his works are and how often they've been adapted and reinterpreted. That said, I wondered what people might be interested in going through first. I'm up for whatever. Much Ado About Nothing seems as good as any a place to start. Although there is an upcoming film adaptation of Cymbeline starring Ed Harris, Ethan Hawke, and Milla Jovovich, among others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nX5k9pgY_5Q Thoughts?
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Jul 16, 2014 04:03
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I've been meaning to read more Shaxberd. The recent film adaption of Coriolanus was good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsYrGIQnmxo It's funny to me how all the trailers try to cut it so the dialogue doesn't sound Shakespearean.
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Jul 16, 2014 05:12
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Questions for Discussion:quote:
quote:
(Source) If y'all want to pick a play for a let's read I can change the thread title periodically if you want, i.e., something like "Bill Shaxberd Club: Ducktales Edition: Don't Talk about McDuck: DAMMIT" or whatever Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 16, 2014 05:52
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Blind Sally posted:That said, I wondered what people might be interested in going through first. I'm up for whatever. I wouldn't mind starting with Much Ado About Nothing, it's one I haven't read and comedies are always great places to start because of the dick jokes. I had a quick search and according to Wiki it's a comedy with dark corners, which is great because I love how Shaxberd hosed about with generic conventions. Like, the dark as gently caress contemplation of death scene from Measure for Measure, or the weirdly funny bits of King Lear. I'm really interested to see if Much Ado starts weaving tragic threads through what is supposed to be a straight up comedy. Have a thing about The Scottish Play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h--HR7PWfp0
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Jul 16, 2014 16:28
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Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Personally I am pretty fond of Titus Andronicus, Othello and A Midsummers Night Dream as far as his plays go. However you need to watch his plays performed for full effect because they are not really something like closet dramas (like Faust) where it is meant to be just read. Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth Macbeth
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Jul 16, 2014 18:19
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Dr Scoofles posted:Have a thing about The Scottish Play precicely the clip I was expecting
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Jul 16, 2014 20:13
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Yesssss Shakespeare thread! It's been awhile since I took any of my three semesters of Shax but I can hunt down my notes and my Norton if anyone interested in some serious critical readings/theories/etc. And yeah, I also vote to start with Much Ado. It's one of the more accessible plays and we can save the serious stuff (the four great tragedies) or really complicated stuff (histories) or the problem plays for later. Should we do an act every week? That's a little slow, but it gives people time to read/decipher. And after, maybe we can watch an adaptation. My favorite is the 1993 Kenneth Branagh because it's hilarious and accessible and the cast is fun. (For example, Keanu Reeves is Denzel Washington's evil half-brother).
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Jul 17, 2014 03:43
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pixelbaron posted:It's funny to me how all the trailers try to cut it so the dialogue doesn't sound Shakespearean. I imagine that people who already know about the plays expect the dialogue to be Shakespearean, so they don't really need to advertise it. Contrariwise, those who aren't familiar with the work might be lured into extra theatre seats if they aren't fully informed--cause you know, they might be dissuaded otherwise. Stravinsky posted:That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play Personally I am pretty fond of Titus Andronicus, Othello and A Midsummers Night Dream as far as his plays go. However you need to watch his plays performed for full effect because they are not really something like closet dramas (like Faust) where it is meant to be just read. That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play That Play Mods, please ban this sick filth for daring to speak aloud the name of that curséd play. Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. You're really missing out on a lot of subtext if you aren't watching it being performed. The human element is massive in Shakespeare. With that in mind, I hope we can cross-discuss Shakespeare film/tv adaptations here to compare to the plays themselves, seeing as having a separate Cinema Discusso and The Book Barn Shakespeare threads would probably dilute the chatter. Hieronymous Alloy posted:If y'all want to pick a play for a let's read I can change the thread title periodically if you want, i.e., something like "Bill Shaxberd Club: Ducktales Edition: Don't Talk about McDuck: DAMMIT" or whatever Hahaha, holy gently caress, those are the worst discussion questions I've ever seen. I'm glad you sourced it because I was about to ask. But yeah, the thread title thing sounds like a great idea. I'm all for Much Ado and since other people are expressing interest, I think we should go for that first. (I'll clean up the OP a bit to make it easier to link to discussion beginnings). taco show posted:Should we do an act every week? That's a little slow, but it gives people time to read/decipher. And after, maybe we can watch an adaptation. Let's try this and see how it goes. I've leaving tomorrow to go abroad for the weekend, so that'll give me a chance to catch up and post a brief synopsis/overview next week to get people talking after they've read the first Act. If we can sustain a faster pace afterwards, we can always start posting more (or less, we'll see how it goes). And yeah, definitely bring and sweet critical discussion you have to the table. Myself, I've got the David Bevington edition to bring to the table. I've also got the Wordsworth Edition and a couple of plays published by Signet Classic, each with varying degrees of critical text. So yeah, without further ado, shall we all read Act 1 of Much Ado About Nothing over the weekend?
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Jul 17, 2014 06:54
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Blind Sally posted:Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. You're really missing out on a lot of subtext if you aren't watching it being performed. The human element is massive in Shakespeare. With that in mind, I hope we can cross-discuss Shakespeare film/tv adaptations here to compare to the plays themselves, seeing as having a separate Cinema Discusso and The Book Barn Shakespeare threads would probably dilute the chatter. I'm really lucky living where I do in the South of England as I have access to a lot of good Shakespeare being performed all year round. Twice a year the country house down the road erects a wooden stage and does outdoor theatre in the traditional style of a sparse stage that you surrounded. Everybody brings food and beer and has a laugh. A bit like this:  I saw an all male cast wearing nothing but black doing Macbeth, with no scenery, no costumes and hardly any props. I thought it would have an amateurish school play feel to it, but on the contrary, they radiated such energy and force on stage that I was genuinely caught up in the story and the action scenes where really exciting because instead of fancy choreographed sword fights they just brawled the gently caress out right in front of you. The actors seethed with hatred, it was loving great. On the other side of theatre, I went to see the RSC do Titus Androgynous at Stratford last year. The Swan Theatre is an awesome mix of modern and traditional. I sat up top when I went (cheaper seats)and got to see Saturninus' cock because there is a scene where he is naked in a bath. Expensive seats up front didn't get my view, ha! Apologies for the watermark, it was the best picture I could find showing how the stage and audience are positioned. https://www.flickr.com/photos/stagedoor/5427110235/sizes/l Titus Andronicus is probably my favourite Shakespeare play and I really liked this production because they veered as far away from the goofy pantomime version as they could (see Hopkins in the OP, good God I hated the Julie Taymore film) and instead made the gore and torture incredibly painful to watch. They used real intestines and blood on stage, so if you got some on you it wasn't a 'haha oh what fun' moment it was a 'Jesus Christ what the gently caress!?' moment, and when characters where driven mad it was with hopeless despair rather than grinning lunacy. I really must re watch the film adaptation to figure out why I hated it so much.
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Jul 17, 2014 08:16
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Oh, yeah, performances. I've been lucky enough to see a bunch of different Shakespeare performances, but my two favorite were both in the Folger Shakespeare Theater in Washington, D.C.: one was a four-hour production of both parts of Henry IV, and the other was The Complete Works of Shakespeare, Abridged presented by the actual Reduced Shakespeare Company that "wrote" it. I'll get started on reading Much Ado!
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Jul 17, 2014 11:07
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Stravinsky posted:Macbeth ad Nauseam I agree, The Scottish Play is my fave. I tend to enjoy his tragedies more than his comedies because I'm a violent person. I also like Hamlet and, strangely enough, Richard III for some reason. The Julie Taymor adaptation of Titus Andronicus from 1999 is awesome and visually arresting and I'd strongly recommend for Shakespeare fans.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:13
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What is this thread's opinion on Harold Bloom? As far as I know, he's one of the most respected living scholars on the topic of Shakespeare. I was at goodwill and noticed a huge book called The Invention of the Human by Mr. Bloom, in which he argues that Shakespeare's characters were the first in literature that changed by inward reflection, not from outside forces, and that all of literature and human development was changed by this. Or something. I haven't read much yet. It's hard for me to take Bloom entirely seriously after he once said the David Foster Wallace had "no discernible talent. He can't think, he can't write," and that "Stephen King looks like Cervantes next to Wallace." Regardless of your personal opinion of DFW's writing, to make a statement like that is just illogical. Still, Bloom is the most famous literary critic and highly regarded on the classics.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:09
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blue squares posted:What is this thread's opinion on Harold Bloom? As far as I know, he's one of the most respected living scholars on the topic of Shakespeare. I was at goodwill and noticed a huge book called The Invention of the Human by Mr. Bloom, in which he argues that Shakespeare's characters were the first in literature that changed by inward reflection, not from outside forces, and that all of literature and human development was changed by this. Or something. I haven't read much yet. Also not really a fan of Bloom either - he doesn't hate Updike as much as James Wood but goes out of his way to not mention any of Updike's writings or give even the slightest bit of praise; this is also because Bloom has his face buried so far up Philip Roth's rear end that he can barely bring himself to talk about Delillio, McCarthy and Pynchon, let alone Updike. Some of Bloom's works are worth reading but he's basically the new model for American literary pretension complete with loving all of his grad students and wearing his black turtleneck.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:33
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For some reason there isn't a kindle free download of Much Ado but you can find it free here: http://manybooks.net/titles/shakespeetext982ws2210.html It's been more than fifteen years since I read anything by Harold Bloom but it's hard to take sweeping generalizations like that all that seriously. I'm sure somewhere one of the greek tragedians at least managed to write something with internal characterization, and if not that there's got to be something of the sort in the Tale of Genjii. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 01:22
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You can get pretty much the entire catalogue of Shakespeare's works from University of Adelaide for free in any format you desire, including Much Ado. http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/s/shakespeare/william/
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Jul 18, 2014 11:10
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Blind Sally posted:[*]3rd Rule: If someone mentions the "Baconian theory" of authorship, tell them to Oxfordian safe space, voted 5. Dr Scoofles posted:I saw an all male cast wearing nothing but black doing Macbeth, with no scenery, no costumes and hardly any props. I thought it would have an amateurish school play feel to it, but on the contrary, they radiated such energy and force on stage that I was genuinely caught up in the story and the action scenes where really exciting because instead of fancy choreographed sword fights they just brawled the gently caress out right in front of you. The actors seethed with hatred, it was loving great. Was this at the Mercury in Colchester? I missed a production like that for some reason. Chris! posted:Also according to Wikipedia, there are several meanings to the play's title, one of which is a double entendre as "nothing" was Elizabethan slang for vagina. So is "blank", so when Viola in Twelfth Night says her past is a blank she's both stating the obvious and saying she can't answer.
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Jul 18, 2014 16:04
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I read Act 1 yesterday and really enjoyed it, I'm such a sucker for these comedy set ups. I also wrote a thing about cupid and love in scene 1, typical undergrad tryhard guff, but I'll hold off posting it until everybody is caught up. Although I studied Shakespeare for a term in my second year I pretty much read medieval lit for the entirety of my third year so I tend to approach stuff like this with a bit of a medieval cap on. House Louse posted:Was this at the Mercury in Colchester? I missed a production like that for some reason. Afraid not, it was at the Blickling estate in Norfolk and this particular production was a few years ago now.
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Jul 21, 2014 11:53
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I'm getting started on Much Ado -- had to hunt up my old Riverside Shakespeare so I had an edition with decent footnotes, the freebie wasn't cutting it. What is it with the arras? Given how much villainy seems to come from lurking behind the things, I'm starting to understand why we don't have them anymore in modern homes. Less skulking that way.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:35
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Everytime Benedick and Beatrice start bickering I hope someone will cut them off and shout "just gently caress already". I'm gonna get the summary written and posted tonight. Also, Don Jon is a jerk.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:36
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Much Ado About Nothing 1.1 The play opens up with the Governor of Messina, Leonato, announcing that the Prince of Aragon, Don Pedro, is coming to his fair city. His retinue talk amongst themselves of the coming visitors, particularly of Claudio and Benedick. Within a few short lines, we are introduced to the primary figures of this play and given a little insight into their character. Governors and Princes aside, this play is a "whole lot of fuss about vagina", so it's clear that what matters is going to be the politics of love, romance, and sex. Therefore, we're going to want to turn out attention to Hero, Beatrice, Benedick, and Claudio. First impressions are everything, so here we go: we learn Claudio is in the Prince's favour and that he seems to be a just and honourable young man; Beatrice has a quick and sarcastic wit and is willing to call out others' bullshit; Benedick has a reputation for being a lady-killer, and is perhaps deserving of Beatrice's barbs; and Hero is pretty modest and withdrawn, keeping to herself and really only speaking up when needed.  Dick Joke Line 29, Beatrice asks if "Signor Mountanto returned from the wars or no?" A montanto is an upward blow or thrust in fencing--but note that she says MOUNTanto, suggesting the imagery of sexual coupling. Anyways, Beatrice spends an awful lot of time insulting Benedick, but is interrupted by the arrival of Don Pedro's party. It doesn't take long for Beatrice and Benedick to start bickering. Really, someone should tell them to just gently caress already. Of note is the way that Leonato greets Don John. Don John is the bastard brother of Don Pedro, and if you know a bit about literature, you'll recognize that bastard characters are often portrayed as villains or as untrustworthy. Leonato acknowledges while simultaneously hiding his barbs under pretty words: Line 147-152 posted:LEONATO See the terse response? Don John clearly picked up on Leonato's not so subtle jab at his loyalty. He's also a lot more reserved than the other characters of the play thus far. Barring Hero, everyone is quite happy to jabber on amongst themselves, except Don John, whose quietness further paints him as an outcast. Will it then surprise you to discover that Don John is going to be the play's primary antagonist? Back to Beatrice's insults, on line 139 she refers to Benedick of making an "a jade's trick". This refers to an ill-tempered horse's habit of slipping its head out of a collar or suddenly stopping short. She's calling him out for trying to get the last insult in while ending the argument. The group eventually goes inside and Claudio professes to Benedick that he has fallen in love with Leonato's daughter, Hero. The boy moves fast, but hey, whatever. Vagina Joke Line 175, in response to Claudio's question as to whether to can "buy" a "jewel" like Hero, Benedict responds with "Yeah, and a case to put it into." In this instance, the case could refer to either a jewel case or women's clothes to dress Hero. Of course, there's the further bawdy word play going on here, as it could also refer to her vagina. O, Shakespeare. In lines 207-208, Benedick refers to an old Tale. To quote Bevington's footnotes: David Bevington posted:In the English fairy tale known as "Mr Fox", a murderous wooer, discovered in his crimes by the lady he seeks to marry and victimize,, repeatedly disclaims her recital of what she has seen by the refrain here set in quotations. [i.e. "It is not so, nor 'twas not so, but indeed, God forbid it should be so"] The story is a variant of the theme known as "The Robber Bridegroom". Benedick uses is mockingly here to characterize Claudio's reluctance to admit his "crime" of falling in love. Fortunately for poor Claudio, Don Pedro reappears and they reveal Claudio's problem. It is agreed that they will try to arrange a marriage for Claudio and Hero shall marry. 1.2 Inside the Governor's house, Leonato is told the news of Claudio's desire for his daughter by his brother, Antonio, who learnt of it from a servant of his. Boy, news sure travels fast. They resolve to not do anything at the time, but inform Hero so she might better prepare for an answer to Claudio's advances. 1.3 In another room, Don John meets with his companion, Conrade. First thing we see is that he seems rather bummed out--or well, Conrade inquires to his dismal disposition. Likely, he is annoyed by Leonato's insult. Note he says, in line 12-13, "I cannot hide what I am". This is both a remark on his apparent tendency to wear his emotions on his sleeve, but also the fact that he cannot his bastard lineage. Don't feel too bad for him, though. His other companion, Borachio, arrives having also overheard Claudio's confession of love. He informs Don John and the man instantly devises a plan to create suffering and hardship. Yeah. As a last note, David Bevington notes that this play, unlike other Comedies written by Shakespeare, is unique for lacking a journey of lovers, heroines disguised as men, or courts and cityscapes contrasted with idealized landscapes. "Instead, the prevailing motif is that of the mask. [...] The word Nothing in the play's title, pronounced rather like noting in the English of Elizabethan London and vicinity, suggest a pun on the idea of overhearing as well as of musical notation; it also has a bawdy connotation. [...] Overhearings are constant and are essential to the process of both misunderstanding and clarification. The masks, or roles, that the characters incessantly assume are, for the most part, defensive and inimical to mutual understanding. [...] It is the search for candor and self-awareness in relationships with others, the quest for honesty and respect beneath conventional outward appearances, that provides the journey in this play".
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Jul 24, 2014 05:13
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Let me know if I should continue doing summaries this way or if they should be trimmed back. I'm open to suggestions, as I've never done a "Let's Read" before. Otherwise, onward to Act II, which I think we should aim to have read for the weekend.
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Jul 24, 2014 05:15
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I liked reading that summary, personally. I got kind of antsy and ended up reading through the whole play already, and while I was less enamored with it than with the other Shaxberdian plays I've read (A Midsummer Night's Dream and The Tempest since getting to college, the latter being my favorite of his overall, and a few of the go-to plays in high school, none of which I remember well since I wasn't as serious or critical as a reader then) I can tell that I probably glossed over a fair number of things on account of not being used to this style.
All Nines fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Jul 24, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 06:05
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Summary is great. I have a terrible anthology that has no line numbers and even worse no notations, so I miss a fair bit. The jades trick puzzled me a bit so I'm glad you explained it. Blind Sally posted:Line 175, in response to Claudio's question as to whether to can "buy" a "jewel" like Hero, Benedict responds with "Yeah, and a case to put it into." In this instance, the case could refer to either a jewel case or women's clothes to dress Hero. Of course, there's the further bawdy word play going on here, as it could also refer to her vagina. O, Shakespeare. I read this as a sort of 'bag to put her head in' gag. Benedick makes it clear just before the case quip that he thinks very little of Hero 'Why, i'faith, methinks she's too low for a high praise,'. By telling his buddy Curio to get the case to go with the jewel he's pretty much saying if you're going to marry that ugly woman better keep her shut away from public view, she's not good enough to 'wear' out and about. Benedick sure does live up to Beatrice's criticism about him being a lovely friend. Anyway - I wrote a thing about Cupid, it's pretty stupid of me to write in such depth having only read the first act and so I make a load of assumptions about how the play will pan out. It's more a fun critical exercise than anything else  Something that stuck out to me in Act 1 Scene 1 is the sheer amount of hubris going on in the face of romantic love. Benedick lusts after all women but cannot love '..for, truly, I love none.' and Beatrice in response proudly rejects love 'I would rather hear my dog bark at a crow than a man swear he loves me.'. Claudio, already stricken it seems, admits that he had once rejected love as well 'I would scarce trust myself; though I had sworn the contrary, if Hero would be my wife.'. This sort of pride is inevitably followed by a fall, and so there exists within the play something more than simply a love farce. Misunderstandings and crazy gently caress ups happen in other comedies without the main characters being prideful dicks, they can be the nicest dudes and we can still take pleasure in their misfortune (Comedy of Errors for example) and so I got to thinking that Cupid is here not so much a device to push the play into love-farce territory but as something slightly more sinister. Cupid, draped in the language of war (Shakespeare teams Cupid up with Vulcan and throughout the entire act the language of love is tightly interwoven with martial language), seems to operate more as a figure of Nemesis or Justice rather than simply Love. I started feeling uneasy right away as Beatrice and Benedick seemed to be walking step for step in the shoes of tragic figures before them. Chaucer's Troilus said the very same thing about love and then that turned out badly for everybody when Cupid got involved. Same thing for Dido, who swore never to love again before Cupid stuck his oar in. Cupid, and Eros too, were both active agents of suffering throughout classical and medieval theatre and literature. J. Kingley Smith wrote that 'Cupid shows no necessary affinity with marriage and may just as easily inspire the kind of lust that leads to rebellion, murder and suicide.' I'm not suggesting that Cupid is going to press the characters towards such a tragic ending, Much Ado is evidently a comedy, however Love it seems to me takes on a tragic form in the opening of the play. The tone may be light, witty and comedic, but the message is clear: Love is serious and you mess with it at your peril. All the bickering and pride Benedick and Beatrice indulge in is not paying homage to romantic love, it's mocking it. There is a medieval phrase that sums it up beautifully, 'Luf-daungere', or love danger. Love is something serious than can gently caress you up so badly you want to die, but it's also the greatest thing man can comprehend, in particular the love between man and God. The essence of the phrase is that love is anything but trivial. We see warnings about the dangers of love as Don Pedro and Benedick tease each other. Don Pedro jokes 'I shall see thee, ere I die, look pale with love.' and Benedick replies 'With anger, with sickness, or with hunger my lord; not with love:'. The real joke here is all those emotions are the very symptoms of painful love and the absolute outcome of tragic love. Benedick will probably be chewing that bitter pill in a few acts time as penitence for his fuckery. (I've not read further into the play so I'm probably wrong, but hey-ho) Cupid in Act 1 Scene 1 embodies the tragic and absurd duality of love. He is ambiguous just as love is, the source of great joy and also the source of great suffering. Cupid is presented to us not as the chubby cherubic figure popularised during the Renaissance, rather he is the all seeing and calculating figure we see in Greek and Roman plays 'Cupid is a good hare finder' but also the blindfolded medieval figure who warned Christians against the pitfalls of lust 'hang me up at the door of a brothel-house for the sign of blind Cupid'. Shakespeare deliberately presents Cupid to the audience as both an eagle eyed hunter and a blindfolded figure of sexual depravity. It's difficult to accept Cupid as a simple device to push the plot forward into the lovey-silly bits when he is presented to us like this. Benedick and Beatrice, I suspect, will both have to suffer for their crimes against proper love and be punished (comically) for their lust and their pride. Only through this suffering can they arrive, I hope, at the typical comedic end. Confetti falls, we all laugh and the credits roll. I think its cool that Shakespeare seems to be using elements of classical and medieval Cupidian tragedy within a comedy framework. Love is probably going to be very very silly in this play, and yet I can't help but feel the presence of luf-daungere will be with us throughout, reminding us that despite all the comedy and dick jokes love is serious business - we can laugh at fools in love, but never treat love foolishly. Dr Scoofles fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jul 24, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 12:21
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Phew, thanks for that insight into the Cupid imagery. I'm super familar with the mythology and literary usage of Cupid, so that was an interesting read. And I think I also prefer your take on the "Hero's case" line. Bevington is great, I'll argue that, but he's not perfect. I got the "case" as a bawdy pun suggestion from his annotations, yet I felt it was a bit of a stretch, and yet he dropped the ball with Mountanto joke. He acknowleged that Shakespeare mispelt it, but neglected to point out the "mount" pun being a sex joke.
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Jul 26, 2014 16:35
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Much Ado About Nothing 2.1 In this act, Bevington's theme of "masks" becomes more apparent. If we haven't gleaned from the first Act that Benedick and Beatrice are masking their feelings for each other behind insults, we should be beginning to get some feel for it now. Also, the characters participate in a Masquerade ball in this scene, so uh, yeah. It's thematic! Anyways, we begin this scene with Beatrice arguing about men with her cousin and his entourage. Lines 20-21, is likely another penis joke. Beatrice suggests God will send her a man with a small horns/penis, though she'd rather God send her a cow with no horns/penis at all--or more specifically, just don't send her a husband period.Line 44, the "deliver up my apes" line is a reference to an ancient proverb that said "Such as die maids do all lead apes in hell." In the same line, she says "for the heavens"--it's a common interjection of the time, similar to "good heavens!" Beatrice just lets the clever puns keep rolling. Besides the "metal/mettle" pun on line 55, she also lets off a good zinger on lines 59-60. The joke being that since, Biblically, all men and women are descended from Adam, it would be incestuous for her to marry any man. Furthermore, on line 69 she puns "cinquepace". A cinquepace is a five-step, lively dance, or a galliard. The pun is clear in the following lines--the word is pronounced "sink apace", and in reference to "Repentance" sinking faster and faster, she is suggesting detumescence, or the process by which blood leaves the erectile tissue. It's another dick joke!After that exhilarating bit of word play, they mask up, pair off, and begin dancing. This is when the rumours start to fly. But first, some notes and references:
Most important during this current dance segment, Beatrice insults Benedick to his face thinking he is someone else.  During the break, an unmasked Don John goes up to a masked Claudio and tells him some lies (or masked truths). He knows its Claudio, yet pretends its Benedick, and tells him that Don Pedro is in love with Hero. Claudio, the gullible little sucker that he is, is ready to give up on wooing Hero right then and there. What a guy, eh folks? Anyways, the real Benedick and Don Pedro get wind of it and sort the whole mess out, and Claudio and Hero get to kiss. This should be an early warning sign for what kind of guy Claudio is: he's easily fooled, mistrustful, and kinda weak-willed. At the end of the scene, there is a short back and forth between Don Pedro and Beatrice that suggests an interesting bit of backstory: Act II, Scene 1, Lines 263-266 posted:DON PEDRO Beatrice suggests that her and Benedick were, in fact, in a relationship previously. Or a one-night stand. Or perhaps just love unrequited. Whatever it is, a past connection of some sort is suggested, one where Benedick treated her rather unfairly and one where she is now paying him back with rudeness and discourtesy twicefold. Interesting stuff, and the entire basis for which Joss Whedon included a wordless bit of backstory in his Much Ado adaptation where Benedick is seen leaving Beatrice's bed after an apparent romantic fling. 2.1 In another room, we see Don John and Borachio talking. Obviously, Don John is annoyed that his plan to foil Claudio and Hero's wedding has in turn been foiled. Fortunately (unfortunately?), Borachio has a plan to ruin it. They will manufacture a situation where Claudio will peer into Hero's room from afar and see a woman being wooed by a man. Claudio will believe it to be Hero and another, when in reality it will be Borachio and Margaret--SIDE NOTE: this plan is likely why some editor's suggest Balthasar's earlier lines be Borachio's, given what was said. It's a simple plan, and given Claudio's earlier response to Don John's lies, it's one that he's very likely to fall for. 2.3 Benedick is in Leonato's garden, alone, and muses as to what sort of women might make him open to the idea of love and marriage. At the end of his list he says (line 33-34) "and her hair shall be of what colour it please God", acknowledging that his very list is pretty much impossible and he's expecting too much from any one person. But hey, is it unheard of for people to imagine impossible standards for loved ones? It's ironic, because in this very scene, Benedick finds said perfect woman--it's Beatrice, of course, but he needs someone to point this out to him. This someone is actually Don Pedro and Claudio. They plan to spread disinformation that Benedick can't help but overhear. In Claudio's words, "We'll fit the kid-fox with a pennyworth" (41), or "we'll give our sly victim more than he bargained for"--"kid" being another word for a young goat, or something being stalked as quarry, and foxes being famously sly predators. Basically, they talk about how Beatrice is actually madly in love with Benedick yet is afraid to say word one about it because she doesn't want to be mocked by him. Benedick feels a bit guilty, Beatrice comes out, they talk, he tries to be nice, and she blows him off, rightfully so. Also, when Don Pedro is urging Balthasar to play music, he says "Notes, notes, forsooth, and nothing" (56). Again, back to our vagina joke with regards to "nothing" and the name of the play, also recognize that "nothing" was pronounced like "noting" in this period. So he is simultaneously making a joke about how they're gonna talk about girls while Benedick will simultaneously be "noting" or "eavesdropping" on their conversation.The scene ends with Benedick saying "If I do not take pity of her, I am a villain; if I do not love her, I am a Jew" (256-258). Here's an example of one of the problematic things about slavishly following Shakespeare's texts in adaptations. Old Bill came from another time, a time where people believed things and did things that today we would find morally reprehensible. I name-dropped Whedon earlier, and in his adaptation of Much Ado, he altered this line to read "If I do not love her, I am a fool". Fair enough, fair enough. It's probably not worth the flak he'd get to leave all the lines in there unchanged. And of course, an adaptation is an adaptation--I'd hope directors would feel they had the freedom to reimagine the work as they saw fit (like, say, Kurosawa's Throne of Blood or Ran). Still, lines like this beg the question: was Shakespeare a racist? Honestly, impossible to say. It's likely he held at least some views we'd consider backwards by today's standards, but nothing much personal exists about the man except the plays he wrote and what other people wrote about him. He certainly wrote about characters and situations that we would find problematic, but that could be more a reflection of the general attitudes of the time rather than Shakespeare's personal views. Stuff like this casual anti-Semitism can sometimes bother people who aren't used to reading older literature and coming across it, so the best I can say is "it's there, that's what it was like back then" and hope that people can appreciate the works as a whole. I bring this all up because it's interesting to see how classic literature is altered and adapted to fit current trends and worldviews, as with Whedon's Much Ado and other works, and wondered what other posters felt about such edits.
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Jul 27, 2014 22:41
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We'll aim for Act 3 to be done by the middle of next week.
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Jul 27, 2014 22:41
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Blind Sally posted:
Yeah, I took note of that passage also. It's a tough question because we don't want to turn into the next Thomas Bowdler but at the same time casual off-handed racism like that is just distracting to a modern audience. It's not like, say, in The Merchant of Venice or Othello where . .I hesitate to say "racism is a major theme" because that's injecting a modern concept into an Elizabethan work -- but where you at least have to tackle racial themes if you're going to talk about the play at all. Here, it's just an incidental reference, and as such I think probably best changed if you're performing it. If you're just reading it, no excuse for the change. Overall though I think Shakespeare was amazingly forward-thinking on race for his time; the best example I can think of, of course, being the whole "Hath not a Jew eyes" speech from Merchant, where the Jewish character basically says "well, of course I'm an rear end in a top hat, you treat me like poo poo, gently caress you guys." He's still the villain but he actually has an understandable reason for his villainy and it's that everyone else is a horrible racist (note that this puts him light-years ahead of most of Shakespeare's villains in terms of characterization; compare, say, Iago). Shakespeare probably had an unusually high degree of sympathy for oppressed minorities because of how insanely gay he was. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 03:46
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Maybe it's just because I've much preferred the older literature I've read, but I'm almost at the point where I stop noticing antiquated moral views altogether when it isn't directly relevant, and I think it says a lot more about modern audiences than it does about older works like Huck Finn and Shakespearean plays when censorship is considered.
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Jul 29, 2014 04:37
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Yeah, I'm able to lose myself pretty easily in a text, classical or modern, and accept what's being said as part of the book. I don't think your "average joe" reader can do that as readily. I certainly don't begrudge Whedon his alterations, though, especially considering how unimportant it is in the scheme of this play. Unlike, say, the other plays mentioned by Hieronymous Alloy.
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Jul 29, 2014 07:04
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Also, was Shakespeare suspected of being gay? I thought that was just a webcomic thing.
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Jul 29, 2014 07:06
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A lot of the sonnets raise an eyebrow, especially #20. A few like to think that those written under the Earl of Southampton's patronage celebrate an illicit love between them. Some critics take this and apply it to the comedies with their constant gender-hopping and cross-dressing. Obviously our biographical knowledge is so minimal that it's impossible to prove.
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Jul 29, 2014 11:16
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Blind Sally posted:Also, was Shakespeare suspected of being gay? I thought that was just a webcomic thing. Yeah, it's not provable but there's a lot of support for the idea that he at least swung both ways, ranging from the fact that "Shall I Compare Thee to a Summer's Day" is addressed to a man, to the speech in Twelfth Night about how a man's love is just inherently superior, right down to the second-best bed going to his wife in the will. Anyway, more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_of_William_Shakespeare
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Jul 29, 2014 13:11
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Huh, imagine that. And of course, now I can't find the web comic in particular to laugh at. It was some gamer comic that was shittily drawn but then they got a lot better. I had, like, the "cool guy" character, the "wacky character", and the "female character" and they were rude to each other and a giant bear burst through the wall to yell at them about Shakespeare being gay. Then they rattled a tin can with some nuts and bolts in it to make him leave.
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Jul 31, 2014 07:03
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Much Ado About Nothing 3.1 Here in Leonato's Garden we have Hero, Margaret, and Ursula conspire to get Beatrice and Benedick to fall in love with each other. Not a lot of clever bits here. Really, Beatrice and Benedick are the witty ones and it really shows when we're without them. Line 76, Hero says "press me to death with wit". This is a reference to a common punishment of the time. People who refused to plead either guilty or not guilty for crimes they were accused of would generally be killed by being pressed to death with heavy weights. In Line 78, "Consume away in sighs" is a reference to the old belief that every time a person let go a "sigh in love" the heart lost a drop of blood. 3.2 Meanwhile, in Leonato's House, Don John springs his trap. He tells Don Pedro and Claudio that he has seen Hero with another man and offers to show them that very night. If Claudio were made of sterner stuff, he might dismiss Don John and have faith in his betrothed. But he's not. So he's ready to entertain this slander and, as we'll see, accept it as fact on very flimsy evidence. Line 20, a "toothache" was considered to be a common ailment for someone in love. To which Claudio jokes, in Line 21, on how it should be removed. Obviously, a bad tooth should be drawn. But to be drawn is also a form of execution. Particularly, for traitors. They were first hung then cut down alive and drawn (i.e., disemboweled and quartered (i.e., cut into four quarters)). He's playing on the joke that Benedick, a self-confirmed bachelor, is now in love--his tooth is the traitor and should be punished for its betrayal. Lines 43-44, Benedick has had his beard shaven off. He knows Beatrice prefers her men without it. The implication is that what remains of his beard is now stuffing tennis balls. Line 64, what does Don Pedro mean by "She shall be buried with her face upwards"? Possibly a reference to how the faithful were buried, as opposed to suicides who were often buried face-down. It's also a SEX JOKE because it suggests that she'll be smothered under Benedick, and that she will "die for him" meaning to have an orgasm.3.3 In the streets-- What's a Shakespeare play without some loveable buffons? Here we have Dogberry the Constable, along with the night's Watch. Right away we can tell these fellows aren't all there. Either that or they're exceedingly clever. However, considering their plodding nature prevents them from getting off their message in time to save Hero from slander and wrong-doing, I'm more apt to believe they're simply that sluggish. Line 3, Verges uses "salvation" in the place of "damnation". Line 5, "Dogberry" mistakenly uses "allegiance" instead of "treachery". Line 22, we see "senseless" used in place of "sensible". You get the idea. These bumbling fools chance upon Borachio and Conrade spill the details of their wicked plan. They capture to villains and plan to reveal all to those involved. Of course, this being a Shakespeare play, we the audience know that there's going to be some sort of comedic/tragic/convoluted delay that prevents that information from being relayed in a timely manner, thus ensuring further misunderstandings amongst our primary actors. Line 15, Seacoal is a good name because it was a high-grade coal shipped from Newcastle, preferable to the charcoal bought from London colliers. EDITOR'S NOTES: At Lines 44, 48, 53, and 66, Shakespeare's notes to not specify which member of the Watch speaks. It's often attributed to the Second Watch or Seacoal, but could be spoken by any. Line 41, "bills" are pikes with axes fixed to long poles. Something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_(weapon) Apparently they were pretty rad for dealing with mounted armoured cavalry. Line 56, a commonplace derived from Ecclesiasticus 13:1. Line 98, "my elbow itched", proverbially, it's a warning against questionable compatriots. Line 103, "true drunkard", alludes to the common belief that drunk people always tell the truth. Borachio's name is Spanish for "drunkard". Line 134, the painting in question is probably one of Israelites passing through the Red Sea, whereas "god Bel's priests" probably alludes to the story of Bel and the Dragon from the Book of Daniel. 135-6, the "shaven Hercules" either alludes to a young Hercules choosing between virtue and vice, or in the service of Omphale--or it's a confused allusion to Samson. 3.4 Back in Leonato's house, Hero, Ursula, and Margaret gossip. Line 23-29, Margaret makes a slight SEX JOKE and then chides Hero for being a prude about it. Line 41, "Light O'Love" would have been a popular song of the time. The following "without a burden" remark references bass accompaniment--or to be "without a man". Margaret is good at wordplay. It's not just Beatrice. Line 51, "H" is a pun on "ache" which was pronounced "aitch". Beatrice is complaining of aching with a cold. 52, the "Turk" remark suggests she is violating her oath to not become a lover. I don't know my medieval racism, so I don't fully understand the Turk jab, but whatever, that's what the Bevington footnote says. The "sailing by the star" remark that follows is referencing the North Star, Polaris. Margaret is saying that there are no longer any certain truths to trust. Not bad, Margaret. SEX JOKE Line 59, Beatrice again claims to be sick, but Margaret takes the "stuffed" remark in a bawdy sense. Beatrice is annoyed/amused and they rib back and forth a bit longer. Line 71, ever Hero of all people gets in on the word play. The thistle she is referencing has a specific Latin name: carduus benedictus. So yeah, good on Hero for making a SEX JOKE (Beatrice is PRICK'T by Benedick).3.5 And here's the scene where the audience collectively rolls its eyes. Dogberry and Verges arrive in time to warn Leonato about the deception, but fumble about their words for too long. Leonato gets impatient and waves them off, so they go back to get their deposition without warning them. Ha! Oh, the irony! In the hands of a lesser playwright, Dogberry would just show up in the last act to save the day. Shakespare masterfully lets the audience know that everything is going to be okay. It's just--well, we're going to have to wait a little bit for the pay off. Be patient! Enjoy the ensuing bedlam! Dogberry will return, but in the meantime we get to watch some lovesick couples suffer. Lines 29-30, "excepting [...] presence" (The normal meaning "with the exception of your honoured self," comically implies that Leonato is an even more arrant knave than the men arrested. Verges probably meant to say, "begging Your Worship's pardon", but then, these two are a couple of bumbling idiots, so what can you expect?)
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Jul 31, 2014 07:44
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Ha! I played Leonato in high school, the last play I ever did there (it was held the summer after I graduated). Because the head of the drama department who always did Shakespeare (there were two, with her being the younger neo-hippy one), she always wanted to change the setting from the original to something more modern and recognizable. For Much Ado, we set it in modern day on a college campus. Instead of coming back from war, the boys were coming back from a successful debate team competition. Obviously no dialogue was changed, but we made our show shirts have the fake debate team logo on the front. Trying to talk about how she set up Romeo & Juliet is worthy of an entire post by itself. Anyways, Leonato's not a very difficult character to play. He mostly comes off as the "smart, cool father figure" character early on and very much has a "one of the guys" attitude with the youth. It's not until the wedding that his personality makes a dramatic shift due to what goes on there, and if played right he can end up becoming downright mean. And I think the "I am a Jew/fool" line is always changed that way nowadays except in extremely strict adaptations. It rhymes well enough to avoid being jarring, and few would notice the difference. The use of it in modern adaptations may even mean that many don't know about the original anti-Semitic line.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:48
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Holy crud, I got busy and forgot to update. I assume you're all caught up now, so I'll post the notes for the final two acts: Act4 Scene 1 is the wedding of Claudio and Hero, although as we know, Claudio is going to come out and act like a huge dick head. And so he does. And so he is. He even drags it out and acts coy to get everyone riled up. Bear in mind: at this point, Claudio is going mostly off of hearsay from Don John. He saw the silhouette of two lover's through the window of Hero's room, but he has not actually seen any evidence of any wrong doing from Hero. A supposedly modest and trustworthy woman, Claudio throws Hero under the bus the moment he has reason to doubt her.  Line 56, this is a reference to Diana on her throne in the moon. She is the goddess of chastity. Line 82, this is a reference to the very name of Hero from the story of Hero and Leander, who is herself a faithful tragic heroine--much like our Hero. Line 194, a minor note, but know that "eat" here means "eaten" and is pronounced "et".  Anyways, Don Pedro and Claudio leave in a huff, but some info comes from the Friar casting doubt on the accusations, and rightfully so. Benedick promises Beatrice to challenge the claims and they vow to pretend that Hero (who had fainted earlier) is dead for the time being. Revenge is cruel. Scene 2 is Dogberry and his crew performing their duties and being bumbling fools as usual. It shows the audience that there will yet be further delays before a resolution is found. Act5 Leonato confronts Don Pedro and Claudio about the death of Hero. They are shocked and saddened, and a bit offended by the accusations. They try to laugh it off, but then Benedick comes by and threatens to fight Claudio. Line 139, "broke cross", is to clumsily allow your spear to break cross-wise against an opponent's shield--Claudio is saying that Benedick's jokes/wit are shite. Line 142, "turn his girdle", a proverbial saying of uncertain meaning--Benedick has likely turned his sword belt around so that he's ready to fight. Lines 153-156, "calf's head, capon, woodcock", in the proposed "feast" of dueling, Claudio is proposing to carve up various dishes connotation foolishness, effeminate cowardice, and stupidity respectively. In the heat of the moment, Claudio's wit becomes a lot sharper, it seems. Eventually Benedick leaves after swearing off Don Pedro and Claudio's company. They're even more troubled this time than by Leonato's verbal assault. That's when Dogberry and his crew amble into the scene, with Conrade and Borachio. Don Pedro recognize's his brother men and flags them down to question them. This is when the discover Don Jon's treachery and begin to feel real bad about jumping to conclusion. Well at least Claudio feels bad. He goes to mourn Hero.  From this point, the scenes go pretty rapid-fire. The stage has been set, all the catalysts of been triggered, and it's just a matter of things falling into place. In 5.2, Benedick goes and chats up Beatrice. There's a couple of SEX JOKES here, so I'll note them:Line 7, "come over", has many meanings in this instance. 1, that no man shall excel beyond Margaret. 2, that no man shall traverse over her, as one would cross a stile. 3, that no man shall "mount her" in a sexual way. Line 21, "pikes with a vice", the pikes here are the spikes at the center of a shield. The vice means "to screw", as Benedick is finding ways to continue playing off of Margaret's original bawdy joke. Line 95, "die", with the common connotation of "experience sexual climax". /end sex_jokes The next scene has Claudio feeling sorry for himself in a churchyard. Oh yeah, he has also promised to wed another of Leonato's family as penance. But when Leonato brings out the ladies, masked, Claudio is surprised when one of them unmasks and reveals herself to be Hero. It's a bit surprising at how quickly Hero forgives Claudio, but hey, it's a play, so whatever. In Whedon's Much Ado, there is a scene where Hero witnesses, from the shadows, Claudio grieving over her grave. Not only does it continue the play's tradition of people spying on each other, but it gives some more weight to her act of forgiveness. Anyways, Hero and Claudio marry and Benedick and Beatrice marry. Don Jon and his crew are arrested trying to sneak off. The good guys win and the bad guys get their just desserts. Bevington compares the two linking stories of Claudio and Hero, and Benedick and Beatrice, as being reflective of Italian and English literary traditions respectively. Claudio and Hero's plot is sensational, melodramatic, and potentially tragic. The story of the slandered maiden did often end in tragedy, such as in Spenser's Faerie Queen. Bevington notes that Spenser was indebted to Arisoto's Orlando Furioso, as were Peter Beverly in The Historie of Ariodanto and Ieneura and Richard Mulcaster in Ariodante and Genevora. Contrariwise, Benedick and Beatric's plot is more about the battle of the sexes, which was a staple of medieval English humour. See Chaucer's Wife of Bath, in the play Noah, and Shakespeare's own earlier comedies: Berowne and Rosaline in Love's Labour's Lost, and Petruchio and Katharina in The Taming Of The Shrew. The Benedick-Beatrice plot would was later to influence other English authors, such as William Congreve, Oscar Wilde, and George Bernard Shaw. The tone of the Benedick-Beatrice plot is lighthearted, bantering, and reassuring, providing a contrast (maybe a relief even) to the mood of vengeance and duplicity in the Claudio-Hero plot. Bevington goes on, but the crux is the contrast of how love is treated in the two plots. I also appreciated the nod to different literary traditions so I added them in for posterity's sake.  SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, what'd y'all think of Much Ado About Nothing?
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Aug 8, 2014 15:27
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Ah yes, and we'll also need to VOTE on the next play we read. Also, if anyone else gets a hankering to do a play, let me know and I will give control over to you and just keep the OP updated. One caveat, if we do one of the History Quadrilogies, we should do it as a set and in order (Henry VI 1, 2, 3, Richard III and Richard II, Henry IV 1, 2, Henry V). Also, Merry Wives Of Windsor should go along with the Henry IV's because of Falstaff. That is all.
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Aug 8, 2014 15:50
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