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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Alright, this oughta be interesting. It's amusing the amount of stuff you have to bar yourself from using in order to make the game difficult. I also dig your cavalier attitude towards everyone in the story. FF2 is like Shakespeare in a way -- by the end practically everyone'll be dead. So why get attached?

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Mega64 posted:

Yes, the game gives penalties to your casting stats based on what armor you're wearing. And of course the game doesn't tell you any of this. At least the remakes removed the casting penalties from using weapons and shields, though not armor.

Aren't those penalties strictly to spells that can miss (like the instant-death spells, Heal, oh yeah and Life)? As long as you stick to stuff like the damage spells and Cure, you can play a hybrid class just fine. Of course, that means you're splitting your turns between two different types of actions, which means (outside of solo play) that you'll be leveling up half as quickly in each, so in the long run it's probably a bad idea. But it can be done!

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

dotchan posted:

On the other hand, huge, game-sprawling Chain of Deals are hardly endemic in Final Fantasy games alone (or even JRPG games).

On the gripping hand, the standard Chain of Deals has a guy standing next to a lake saying "Gee, I sure am hungry" to clue you in that he needs that fishing rod, etc. Whereas FF2 just requires you to try all of your keywords on every vaguely-important person in the hopes that one of them will drop the next keyword for you to try on every vaguely-important person, such that eventually maybe one of them will direct you to the next bit of gameplay that isn't tediously trudging (or ferrying) from one town to another.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Gabriel Pope posted:

but since the marathon final dungeon is basically going to come down to punching things to death...

Well, given the rules he has to kill his enemies via HP damage, but it's not like he won't have enough money to buy all the Elixirs needed to spam attack spells all day long. I guess the question is, how well do high-level attack spells compare to high-level fisticuffs?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
So with Agility of 28, what are your odds of getting an AGL+ at the end of a fight? Seems like that's going to be more and more of an issue as time goes on...

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Doesn't the late game have packs of enemies who have the drain-HP ability and like 8 attacks per round? Sure Vivian gets 16 dodge attempts per attack, but she still needs to get her AGI way up to be able to survive that kind of onslaught. 8 hits (which needn't all come from the same enemy) would mean a minimum of half her health is gone, and if she's taking at least half her health in damage each round, then she has to spend every round healing, which leaves no room for offense.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Four black mages. Let's repopulate the world's declining amphibian population.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Not that I've played the game, but given the reliance on blink tanks, and thus, having 1 or at most 2 characters absorbing all the physical attacks, wouldn't a no-magic run run into the difficulty of having at least two characters stuck in the back row? Which seems just a little bit awful, given how much people like to complain about the suckiness of bows.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Congrats on finishing! Those Death Knights were a lot less threatening than I'd been expecting them to be. As for the Emperor fight...how much of a difference would your equipment had made, had you decided to use it?

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

MagusofStars posted:

I personally always found that without select-cancel, my stats would plateau at a certain point (weapon skills especially). So then it feels like select-cancel is necessary because holy crap my Sword skill has been stuck at 3-07 for like fifteen fricking battles even though I've been chopping heads; aren't I supposed to be getting stronger? In reality, the Sword skill at level 3 in that dungeon may have been completely adequate, but fighting battles and not seeing any clear sign of progression on the skills sure gives the impression that I'm doing something wrong.

Right, this is down to the game being obtuse and also it trying to avoid you getting overpowered. Some RPGs (I know Persona 3 does this, for example) have monsters in chapter N give vastly less experience than monsters in chapter N+1, and then set up the player experience curves so that you can easily get to, say, level 10, but getting to level 11 then suddenly requires a lot more experience. Which functionally means that there's a soft level cap in each chapter. FF2 does something sort-of similar because skill gains depend on the rank of the enemies you're fighting, but because none of this is actually spelled out you have no idea why you aren't ranking up.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe
Wow, that's a remarkably brutal start. How soon do you get that Cure tome? It seems like a lack of replenishable healing is going to be a major problem.

TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

Mega64 posted:

Who are you planning to give Cure to once you get it?

Dee is the only one who's been training Soul, so I'm guessing she gets it and does literally all the spellcasting for the group unless they get some duplicate tomes from monster drops.

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TooMuchAbstraction
Oct 14, 2012

I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.
Fun Shoe

TheFattestPat posted:

FF2 is certainly a strange yet intriguing game. It would be cool to try and figure out a way to make it more fun and balanced.

Honestly it seems like the main balance issues with the main game are things like Mini and Toad, and the weird evasion/number of attacks/Berserk/Haste stuff. Instant death spells are basically always impossible to balance; FF2 is just one of the very few games in which they're balanced in your favor. And Berserk/Haste should probably just apply a flat buff to your attack, except that then what's the point of leveling them?

Otherwise the main problem with FF2's balance, from what I've seen, is just that it's very opaque, so it's nigh-impossible to make informed decisions. Surprise! Wearing heavy armor nukes your evasion! Surprise! Drain attacks get a fixed-percentage damage bonus! Surprise! You get evasion by having evasion!

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