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Do you like space? Do you like strategy? Do you like building empires? Do you like politics? Do you like taking a bunch of plastic models and pushing them into another bunch of plastic models? Do you like sitting down with your friends and staying there for eight friggin' hours? If so, allow me to introduce Twilight Imperium!  Twilight Imperium is Fantasy Flight Games' flagship board game, and the current edition, 3rd (often called TI3), was released in 2005 and has since been expanded twice. It's an "ameritrash" board game, and as such it involves politics, strategy, combat with dice rolling, plastic miniatures, game mechanics whose quality are sometimes sacrificed for the sake of thematic cohesion, and a too-long running time. Some of those might sound like big flaws (dice, bad mechanics, too long), but I love this game anyway. Here's some of the reasons why. Why this game is awesome
What do I need to know to play this game? Plan an entire day around it. Try to get exactly 4 or exactly 6 players. Bring a copy of the FAQ in addition to the rulebook, or have it available on a smartphone. Try to get the game taught by someone who's played it before. Read the rulebook cover-to-cover if not. You WILL get rules wrong, just roll with it. The story so far For thousands of years, the great Lazax empire ruled the galaxy from its capitol, Mecatol Rex (or as I like to call it, Space Rome). But a few centuries ago, the Lazax began to decline, and under pressure from various other races, notably the new upstarts the Federation of Sol (humans) (aka Space Barbarians), the empire fell. The Lazax were exterminated and the ancient custodians of Mecatol Rex (belonging to a race called the Winnu) maintain the Imperial Council and await the day when another race rises up to fill the role as new Emperors of the galaxy. That's where you come in. What actually happens in this game? You'll start out on your home planet(s) with a meager fleet. Over the course of the game, you'll expand, taking more planets, spending money building better fleets, upgrading your technology, fighting other players, voting on laws in the Imperial Council, and aiming to accomplish particular objectives laid down by the Custodians to get victory points. The game takes place over a number of "rounds," in which you take turns doing stuff, and at the end everybody refreshes their resources and can score victory points. The game ends either after a certain number of points have been achieved by one player or enough rounds pass and (depending on which rules/expansions you are playing with) another condition is met (either way there is a definite upper limit on the number of rounds). In a typical game, usually 5-8 rounds are played. Strategy Tips
Common Rules Mistakes
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Jul 20, 2014 11:32
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PDS units cost 2 to build, not 1. The base game race sheets are misprinted. 
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The Major Powers of the Galaxy aka Playable Races Some of them are more boring than others, story-wise. So if I am brief here, that doesn't mean they are boring to play as. I've given a rough idea of their power level on a scale from one to four stars. Their power also depends on what optional rule set you're playing with, so bear in mind these are very rough estimates. The powerful ones are mostly powerful because of money - they have home planets, or abilities, that give them a lot of resources. edit: It should be stressed, these are relative power estimates; the actual power difference between the best and the worst isn't that large. The worst races can and do win games. The Federation of Sol ****  The Federation of Sol are new players on the galactic political scene, but the humans have been colonizing the galaxy for a long time and humans are one of the most numerous races. Radiating out from their home planet, Jord (it's Swedish, from the same root as English "world"), they spread rapidly and have become a powerhouse on par with the oldest of the races of the Imperial Council. Compared to other races, they are especially skilled at logistics and troop deployment. The Barony of Letnev ****  The Letnev are a pale-skinned race that evolved underground on Arc Prime, a rogue planet - a planet that orbits no star. They are one of the strongest races in the galaxy economically. The Universities of Jol-Nar *  The aquatic Hylar people of Jol and Nar are the undisputed masters of technological innovation. They designed almost every ship, every weapon, every bit of technology that was used in the Twilight Wars or the wars you are about to wage. As the game progresses, they will advance leaps and bounds in technology while you struggle to progress at all. Unfortunately for them, they're not that good at using their own technology - their massive intellects are better suited to engineering and science than military command. The L1Z1X Mindnet ****  The Lazax weren't completely obliterated, after all. The "el won zee won ex", as they call themselves, or "Lizix" as anyone sensible calls them, are a race of cyborgs originating from a far-flung colony of Lazax. They have fearsome technology, a strong economy, and some of the scariest ships in the whole Galaxy. The Xxcha Kingdom *  The Xxcha are a race of space turtles. They are known for being skilled diplomats. They are the most peaceable of the galactic races, and therefore the most boring. The Naalu Collective **  The Naalu are telepathic snake-people. They use their telepathy to communicate, as well as to manipulate the other races of the galaxy. Because of this ability, they've been able to hide their true power until recently, and thanks to an alliance with the Yssaril they've amassed quite a bit of it. Their telepathy allows them to predict enemy attacks better, and coordinate their fighter fleets far more effectively than other races. The Sardakk N'orr ***  The Sardakk N'orr are an insectile race whose military might is unsurpassed. There's not much to say about them, especially if you're already familiar with StarCraft's Zerg or Warhammer 40k's Tyranids. The Emirates of Hacan *** (5+ players) **** (4 players)  The Hacan are cat people who have become masters of trade and commerce. Whenever goods are traded between one race and another, you can be sure that somewhere, somehow, a Hacan merchant is profiting. They might not have the most productive planets, but they'll be one of the richest races anyway. The Mentak Coalition ****+  Long ago, the Lazax started using Moll Primus as a penal colony. Since the Twilight Wars freed them, former criminals of a variety of races, and their descendents, have formed their own government and, through piracy, pillaging, and scheming, have become a major player on the galactic stage. They fight dirty. Warning for new groups: the Mentak are borderline overpowered, especially with expansion content. Consider not using them. The Yssaril Tribes *******  The Yssaril are a secretive race of little green dudes that look like Gollum. They're known for their extensive spy network. Warning for new groups: The Yssaril are seriously overpowered. Don't play with them, ever. The Yin Brotherhood (Shattered Empire expansion) *  The Yin Brotherhood are a race of cloned humans who suffer from a disfiguring disease. They are fanatically religious, worshiping the egg from which they are all cloned, which their father Darien harvested from his wife Moyin after her death to the disease. They fixed the lethality of their disease but are still disfigured by it, and consider it a holy marking. Their stand-out quality compared to other races is their religious fanatacism. The Embers of Muaat (Shattered Empire expansion) **  When the Jol-Nar invented War Suns (basically Death Stars), they built them in secret shipyards on Muatt. The Muatt having a strong affinity for fire, they took to War Suns like a fish to water. They start the game with a War Sun, which is pretty crazy. The Clan of Saar (Shattered Empire expansion) **  The Saar, a race of relatively primitive wolf-looking dudes, have no planet to call their own. They are a nomadic people; they take their space docks with them wherever they go. In consequence, you may find the entire Saar fleet rolling up your planets like a giant Katamari ball, since they have no need to leave half their fleet at home for defense. What home? The Winnu (Shattered Empire expansion) ***  The Winnu, or Winnarans, are one of the oldest races in the galaxy. The custodians of Mecatol Rex are Winnarans, but they are not the only Winnarans in the galaxy. The old Winnu civilization still lives, and they do not wish to submit to the memory of the Lazax as their cousins on Mecatol Rex do. The Arborec (Shards of the Throne expansion) ***  The Arborec are a symbiotic collection of plant and fungus species arising from the planet Nestphar. They are perhaps the most alien out of any of the species in the galaxy. They can only communicate with other races through the infested bodies of dead humans/Letnev/Winnu/etc. that have been reanimated via a brain-eating fungus. Like a fungus, they can reproduce anywhere their tendrils of influence have stretched, giving them unprecedented ability to spread quickly. The Ghosts of Creuss (Shards of the Throne expansion) **  The Shaleri people are beings of energy and light that originate inside the Creuss Anomoly, a region of twisted spacetime. For centuries this region of space was uncharted territory, and ships passed through it at their peril. But recently the Ghosts of Creuss have shown their face to the galaxy, and are ready to take their place in Galactic politics. The Nekro Virus (Shards of the Throne expansion) ***  The Nekro virus were created by a mad L1z1x engineer named Mordai. His creations were ruthless, powerful, and bloodthirsty. The ensuing civil war, between Nekro Virus and L1z1x, set back the L1z1x decades, but they managed to exterminate the Virus. Well, almost. In recent years, the Virus has reappeared, ready to assimilate the technology of the Galaxy and conquer it. Being a virus, they're not very thinky, and so they can't vote and can only acquire technology by stealing it. DontMockMySmock fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 20, 2014 11:33
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Yesss a Twilight Imperium thread! I always play with the same person's game and I usually do pretty well. He tends to take the most powerful systems(the ones on par with starting systems) out, and I was wondering if anyone else does that.
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Jul 20, 2014 17:17
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Elyv posted:Yesss a Twilight Imperium thread! I always play with the same person's game and I usually do pretty well. He tends to take the most powerful systems(the ones on par with starting systems) out, and I was wondering if anyone else does that. My group plays with everything. My thinking on the matter is that a game like this is inherently impossible to balance. There are so many factors that you will never get a setup that's even for all players so you might as well embrace the chaos and use everything the game has to offer.
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Jul 20, 2014 17:20
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Recently my group has taken out the two 5-production systems and a couple of the saddest 1-production systems.
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Jul 20, 2014 18:51
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Thanks for posting this; I've never played TI, but it's always interested me in the way a botanist would be interested in bushes on a distant planet. Reading over the races, are they really as imbalanced as you say they are? That seems like a gross oversight, and like an easy way to make people who don't have access to that information have a lovely first game - I'd probably have picked the turtle people because I love turtles and diplomacy is cool, but if they're as mad as you imply then I'd probably have been miserable, no one likes being really underpowered for a 4-6 hour long game. Also, has FF talked at all about a new edition? I assume not or you'd have mentioned it, but it's close to 10 years now and that screams "New edition!" to me when it comes to FF stuff.
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Jul 20, 2014 19:12
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I've heard all about this but never played it. Maybe i'll try a vassal game with peeps sometime.
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Jul 20, 2014 19:16
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Many thanks for posting this! I just got a copy of TI Third Edition and am working through the rules. It's a lot to digest; hopefully the thread will make it a bit easier to get started. One quick initial question: is there any particular runthrough video you'd recommend to illustrate the main rules / mechanics and highlight areas of ambiguity or uncertainty in the rules?
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Jul 20, 2014 20:11
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You might want to add a note to the nekrovirus that people should be allowed to re-random if they want to participate in the political process of the game.
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Jul 20, 2014 20:25
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So far we've had 2 games under our belt with the same group, one game was played with the original and the second with the Shattered Throne expansion. The expansion game was by far more enjoyable since it brought in the new Strategy cards but I have to admit that indeed the Yssaril are just not fun to play against. The game almost ended on the third turn with the Yssaril player gaining enormous footholds everywhere and the entire table turning on him the fourth turn and taking his home system. This caused the game to become completely boring for him, although it was the result of his own mistakes ofcourse. I had to convince him to keep playing since I would leave his home system next turn, the only reason I took it was to qualify for my secret objective. It is a danger of this game however that it can end in a bang or a very soft sizzle.
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Jul 20, 2014 20:38
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I would recommend to every group in the universe to just remove the Yssaril from their game. They are way, way overpowered and in every game with them one of two things will happen... 1) Yssaril win the game because they are stupidly good. 2) Half/all of the galaxy dogpiles the Yssaril and wipe them from the map for no other reason than they will probably win if there isn't a coalition against them. Neither of these outcomes are desirable.
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Jul 20, 2014 21:16
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Countblanc posted:Thanks for posting this; I've never played TI, but it's always interested me in the way a botanist would be interested in bushes on a distant planet. Reading over the races, are they really as imbalanced as you say they are? That seems like a gross oversight, and like an easy way to make people who don't have access to that information have a lovely first game - I'd probably have picked the turtle people because I love turtles and diplomacy is cool, but if they're as mad as you imply then I'd probably have been miserable, no one likes being really underpowered for a 4-6 hour long game. Also, has FF talked at all about a new edition? I assume not or you'd have mentioned it, but it's close to 10 years now and that screams "New edition!" to me when it comes to FF stuff. The only major imbalance is the Yssaril Tribes, and _maybe_ the Mentak. Your best policy is really to remove the Yssaril and hand out two or three of the race sheets to each player. Also, while races like the Xxcha are 'bad', TI is really a political game where committing to a war is devastating for both parties, and you will need to be opportunistic and/or manipulative to win, so not having a target painted on your back in the first few turns may end up being a bonus (see: the Yssaril, who are super expansionist and can conquer half the galaxy in the first two turns). I generally agree with DontMockMySmock on his race synopsis. Ironically, the Shattered Empire expansion is virtually essential for a decent TI game but all of the races in it are kind of dull.
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Jul 20, 2014 22:32
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DJ Dizzy posted:You might want to add a note to the nekrovirus that people should be allowed to re-random if they want to participate in the political process of the game. Dude, the nekrovirus control politics, yeah you don't vote, but your "diplomats" make siding against you very difficult.
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Jul 21, 2014 03:26
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First off, thanks for making the thread! I love TI, have played it many times with my friends and am happy to have other people to discuss it with  Countblanc posted:Reading over the races, are they really as imbalanced as you say they are? That seems like a gross oversight, and like an easy way to make people who don't have access to that information have a lovely first game - I'd probably have picked the turtle people because I love turtles and diplomacy is cool, but if they're as mad as you imply then I'd probably have been miserable, no one likes being really underpowered for a 4-6 hour long game. While Don'tMockMySmock made an otherwise excellent OP, I have to disagree with a fair bit of his racial assessments. First off, while there is a disparity in the power levels of the races I think DMMS exaggerates it a bit. The Yssaril are indeed broken (seriously, don't play with them), but none of the other races are so bad as to outright place you at a disadvantage. Secondly, I disagree with the assessments of some specific races. For example, I find the Xxcha Kingdom (the diplomatic turtle people) to be one of the more potent races available and is my personal favorite to play. Conversely, I think the power of the Barony of Letnev is greatly overstated. All of this, of course, is IMHO. I've played this game with maybe 8-9 different people probably close to a dozen times, so my own assessments stem from that metaenvironment. As an original contribution to the thread, for new/novice players: using the alternate Imperial Objective (Imperial II, specifically) is a HUGE improvement in the game. If you're playing with the original (activate to score 2 VP), smart players always flip-flop between Initiative and Imperial, which is boring and arbitrarily speeds the game up. The game is a big investment, but the expansions are definitely worth the added cost, and using Imperial II is one big reason in particular. Judgy Fucker fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 06:33
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The estimates really undervalue the Xxcha and Universities. The only reason I don't like playing Universities is because every player who knows what they're doing dogpiles on me before they can build up. Xxcha are counter-intuitively excellent aggressors because what they take, they keep.
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Jul 21, 2014 15:54
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I've only played the game like 6 times, but when I played the Letnev I hated them; they felt like a really vanilla race(with some powerful racial techs/capship synergies) and a powerful starting system. I didn't feel underpowered, just that I didn't really have anything special going on. Speaking of underpowered, my group generally believes that dreadnaughts are underpowered, and generally favors fighter swarms and/or war suns for actually combat. Is that just our group, or is that a general feeling?
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Jul 21, 2014 16:13
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Elyv posted:Speaking of underpowered, my group generally believes that dreadnaughts are underpowered, and generally favors fighter swarms and/or war suns for actually combat. Is that just our group, or is that a general feeling? I would tend to agree the dreadnaughts are somewhat underpowered, but mainly because of their movement. They are good for defense if say, you're building them at your home system or Mecatol Rex as part of a defense force, but otherwise they are too slow to be very useful. The below situations are the only times I would build dreadnaughts outside of a garrison fleet... 1) You have Type IV Drive tech (+1 to dreadnaught and cruiser movement). Dreadnaughts are just too slow without it. Although you could argue that only the L1Z1X should get this tech because otherwise you're just sinking resources into tech for a ship you shouldn't build anyway. 2) It's a four player game. Warfare II will get those dreads moving but it's a big sacrifice to choose Warfare II just for that purpose in a regular game. In a four player match (where you pick two strategy cards) it's much more palatable. 3) If you're playing with leaders and your race has an admiral. Stick him on a dread and now you've got a nice command ship for the fleet (Admirals give +1 movement to the ship they're on).
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Jul 21, 2014 16:56
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Chomp8645 posted:I would tend to agree the dreadnaughts are somewhat underpowered, but mainly because of their movement. They are good for defense if say, you're building them at your home system or Mecatol Rex as part of a defense force, but otherwise they are too slow to be very useful. The below situations are the only times I would build dreadnaughts outside of a garrison fleet... I agree with all of this. Dreadnaughts are circumstantially very powerful, but otherwise really aren't worth the 5 resources. One pro-dreadnaught anecdote I have, though, was the second turn of a game where I was playing as the Arborec. They start with stasis capsules, so on the first turn I was able to grab a planet with an artifact 2 systems away from my home system. All I had moved was the destroyer and the 1 GF, nothing else, leaving the system wide-open for encroachment by my neighbor. On that second turn, though, my GF "grew" a dreadnaught, providing a nice deterrent to any aggression until I could consolidate a hold on the system. After the game that player told me that being able to grow ships like that on my frontier definitely intimidated him for much of the rest of the game. Judgy Fucker fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 17:39
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Sheikh Djibouti posted:Many thanks for posting this! I just got a copy of TI Third Edition and am working through the rules. It's a lot to digest; hopefully the thread will make it a bit easier to get started. I don't know of any videos, although I'm sure they exist, but this is a pretty good and informative walkthrough of the game. It got me interested in playing it at least (which will probably never happen  ).
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Jul 21, 2014 20:14
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Zero_Grade posted:I don't know of any videos, although I'm sure they exist, but this is a pretty good and informative walkthrough of the game. It got me interested in playing it at least (which will probably never happen Hey, me too! The game makes a lot of sense when you see how everything fits together in play, I usually recommend this before looking at the actual rules, because those rules are really difficult to understand without a larger frame of reference.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:16
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Zero_Grade posted:I don't know of any videos, although I'm sure they exist, but this is a pretty good and informative walkthrough of the game. It got me interested in playing it at least (which will probably never happen This looks great - thank you!
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Jul 21, 2014 20:23
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Countblanc posted:Reading over the races, are they really as imbalanced as you say they are? I added a note about this in the OP but those are meant to be relative power estimates; **** is not actually four times as good as *. Bad races still win games. For example, I played the Jol-Nar yesterday and did well enough to "tie" for first place (thanks to a favorable galaxy build, mostly), despite all my opponents being top-tier - Sol, Letnev, and L1z1x. What happened is that three of the four of us were in serious contention: me (Jol-Nar, 8 points), Sol (8 points and winning on tiebreakers), and Letnev (7 points). Letnev had Bureaucracy (thanks to the mercenary Daffren stealing it from me  ), and Sol had Speaker for next round to take Bureaucracy and probably win. Late into the round, Letnev finally pops Bureaucracy and sees Imperium Rex and "I have 5 tech advances in one color: 2 points". He can't put out Imperium Rex or Sol wins, and he can't put out the tech one or I win (Jol-Nar obviously has 5 tech in a color; Sol does not; Tech has already been played so Sol can't get more tech to win). So Letnev unfortunately had to play kingmaker, and so Sol and I agreed to split the victory.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:53
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Heck yeah, Twilight Imperium thread! About a year back, I took a game without firing a shot, engineering amassive war between the Mentak, who I had been goading into doing my dirty work, and the Yin who had spent the whole game building a kill fleet. On the other side of the galaxy, the N'Orr smelled blood and jumped in, wiping out all but a tiny fleet of Xxacha, who became Turtlestar Galactica. I swept up the ashes and eventually won the game when the table paled and realized I has swept my fleets across a quarter of the board and couldn't be unseated except by the Universities to my right, who remained my ally throughout the game. Our group pretty much approaches TI more like a roleplaying campaign over one night than as a super competitive game and the real prize is how you come out in the epilogue. This was also the night that we took a dinner break, but had to completely change up who rode with who to keep all the alliances intact between the restaraunt and the house. One more TI anecdote: I jokingly offered my sister a spot at the table for a game once. She's not a gamer by a mile, Catan is the depth of her hobby gaming and she hates Catan. But she knew that this was "The stupidly large game that takes for-goddamn-ever to play." She accepted. She has yet to forgive me. She actually did pretty well, but I don't blame her for hating it. ZorajitZorajit fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 21:42
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Speaking of Daffren, I wonder if any group anywhere ever plays with Mercenaries and Imperial strategy card? It seems like if Daffren said "steal two points" it would be a bit overpowered. And now I just realized how all those action cards that deal with SCs are broken as hell with Imperial - e.g. saying "you can't take Imperial" to someone who's winning, effectively skipping them in the Imperial-Initiative dance (since they can't take Initiative either). Is any of that SC fuckery in the base game? (Daffren obviously isn't.)
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Jul 21, 2014 22:51
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DontMockMySmock posted:Speaking of Daffren, I wonder if any group anywhere ever plays with Mercenaries and Imperial strategy card? It seems like if Daffren said "steal two points" it would be a bit overpowered. And now I just realized how all those action cards that deal with SCs are broken as hell with Imperial - e.g. saying "you can't take Imperial" to someone who's winning, effectively skipping them in the Imperial-Initiative dance (since they can't take Initiative either). Is any of that SC fuckery in the base game? (Daffren obviously isn't.) I *think* there is one AC, but we agreed even before the first game those don't apply to Imp/Init.
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Jul 22, 2014 00:26
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Chomp8645 posted:I would tend to agree the dreadnaughts are somewhat underpowered, but mainly because of their movement. They are good for defense if say, you're building them at your home system or Mecatol Rex as part of a defense force, but otherwise they are too slow to be very useful. The below situations are the only times I would build dreadnaughts outside of a garrison fleet... Yeah, I think Type IV drive is way too far down the tech tree; the only time I've ever gotten it I was actually going for advanced fighters and wasn't really building dreads anyway(I was the Naalu and I wanted super-fighters). I ended up losing that game but it was really close and I was in the lead for most of it. How hard it is to tech to Type 4 drive is what ends up sinking dreadnaughts, I think. Also dread techs are all over the place; fully upgraded dreads are probably quite good but you have to go down like 5 different tech routes to get them.
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Jul 22, 2014 00:48
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hoobajoo posted:I *think* there is one AC, but we agreed even before the first game those don't apply to Imp/Init. There is definitely an AC. The times my group has played we played as written, and yes it was crippling to deny someone Imperial/Initiative.
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Jul 22, 2014 00:53
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I just looked, and the one card in the base game that can do that is Public Disgrace: "After a player has chosen a Strategy Card, play this card to force the player to return that Strategy Card and choose a different one." Yeah, whatever designer thought that that was a good idea with Imperial/Initiative is really, really dumb.
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Jul 22, 2014 01:16
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Never ever play with loving Imp/Ini. Imp II uber alles.
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Jul 22, 2014 01:48
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DontMockMySmock posted:I just looked, and the one card in the base game that can do that is Public Disgrace: "After a player has chosen a Strategy Card, play this card to force the player to return that Strategy Card and choose a different one." I've never played with the original strategy cards, but I really doubt the intention was ever for Imp/Ini to be as broken as I've heard it is.
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Jul 22, 2014 06:00
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Elyv posted:I've never played with the original strategy cards, but I really doubt the intention was ever for Imp/Ini to be as broken as I've heard it is. If you think there is controversy about the purpose behind Imp/Ini then you are mistaken. It was absolutely intentional and the designers have said as much. The cards are supposed to be broken because it creates a "tempo" or some such horseshit. What happens is that it creates a mandatory cycle where you always choose Imp when available, and the person to your left chooses Ini. Next turn the former Ini guys chooses Imp and the guy to his left chooses Ini. It's supposed to be mandatory cycle that provides "drives the game towards it's conclusion". It's not an awful idea on paper I guess but in practice it's lovely, unbalanced, and most importantly not fun.
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Jul 22, 2014 06:07
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The Arborec are extremely fun to play. Taking over all nearby planets like a spreading fungus, without any ships, was neat, especially uncovering the planet tokens and occasionally getting some good stuff at no risk. I played as the Ghosts of Creuss once and used their capital ship's ability to generate an exit wormhole anywhere and an entrance wormhole underneath it to jump a huge kill fleet onto the home planet of another player. Pretty kickin' rad although I'm sure there's a rule or errata somewhere complicating that. They're the only race that can grab and hold wormhole systems outside the galaxy and totally neutralize any threat to those systems, since enemies cannot jump through a wormhole that the Creuss control. Thus, if you have hold of those spiral outside-the-galaxy systems you can build a solid base to keep coming back from if you get beat up back in the main galaxy (and no one can dislodge you from your homeworld).
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Jul 22, 2014 12:15
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reading posted:Pretty kickin' rad although I'm sure there's a rule or errata somewhere complicating that. It's simply that the flagship itself cannot use its own wormhole. It has to take the slow route. Otherwise it becomes a teleport-across-the-map-to-anywhere ship, and that would make little sense and be more than a little overpowered. reading posted:(and no one can dislodge you from your homeworld). Their "can't use wormholes to invade my systems" ability only applies to A and B wormholes; anyone can use the D wormhole and pop in (and that's plain ol' written on the race sheet, not errata). Again, having a race's home system be uninvadeable would make little sense and be more than a little overpowered, especially considering the existence of the "Conqueror" and "Regulator" secret objectives.
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Jul 22, 2014 13:10
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reading posted:I played as the Ghosts of Creuss once and used their capital ship's ability to generate an exit wormhole anywhere and an entrance wormhole underneath it to jump a huge kill fleet onto the home planet of another player. Pretty kickin' rad although I'm sure there's a rule or errata somewhere complicating that. They're the only race that can grab and hold wormhole systems outside the galaxy and totally neutralize any threat to those systems, since enemies cannot jump through a wormhole that the Creuss control. Thus, if you have hold of those spiral outside-the-galaxy systems you can build a solid base to keep coming back from if you get beat up back in the main galaxy (and no one can dislodge you from your homeworld). DidntReadTheRules.txt
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Jul 22, 2014 16:36
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Chomp8645 posted:If you think there is controversy about the purpose behind Imp/Ini then you are mistaken. It was absolutely intentional and the designers have said as much. The cards are supposed to be broken because it creates a "tempo" or some such horseshit. What happens is that it creates a mandatory cycle where you always choose Imp when available, and the person to your left chooses Ini. Next turn the former Ini guys chooses Imp and the guy to his left chooses Ini. It's supposed to be mandatory cycle that provides "drives the game towards it's conclusion". It's not an awful idea on paper I guess but in practice it's lovely, unbalanced, and most importantly not fun. If they intended it to be mandatory they just should have made it mandatory. What I've seen happen many times is inexperienced players going for something other than Imperial/Initiative when it's their "turn" to do so, and falling very far behind because of it, even if taking Warfare/Trade/Tech/whatever allowed them to do something really effective and well-thought out. The fun play shouldn't be that much at odds with the "correct" play, and I'm glad they fixed it for future expansions.
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Jul 22, 2014 17:02
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DontMockMySmock posted:It's simply that the flagship itself cannot use its own wormhole. It has to take the slow route. Otherwise it becomes a teleport-across-the-map-to-anywhere ship, and that would make little sense and be more than a little overpowered. It's annoying to attack the space ghosts because they're an extra system away, though. Again, I haven't played much, but I don't think I've seen anyone seriously consider it.
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Jul 22, 2014 17:06
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Lord Of Texas posted:If they intended it to be mandatory they just should have made it mandatory. What I've seen happen many times is inexperienced players going for something other than Imperial/Initiative when it's their "turn" to do so, and falling very far behind because of it, even if taking Warfare/Trade/Tech/whatever allowed them to do something really effective and well-thought out. The fun play shouldn't be that much at odds with the "correct" play, and I'm glad they fixed it for future expansions. I agree completely. It's a dumb system and it has a "beginner's trap" effect to it for the exact reason you describe. New players think they can make a big play if they just choose Warfare or whatever but in reality nothing can really make up for passing on 2 VP. I tend to agree with people who describe the Shattered Empire expansion as the "official patch" to the game.
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Jul 22, 2014 17:24
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Elyv posted:It's annoying to attack the space ghosts because they're an extra system away, though. Again, I haven't played much, but I don't think I've seen anyone seriously consider it. That's certainly true. I don't think I've ever seen the Ghosts' home invaded. On the plus side for the Ghosts' neighbors, it makes the objective "I have 4 (non-fighter) ships in each of two enemies' home systems: I win the game" a lot easier, since you can just park on the boring part of their home system. But then, I've never seen that objective accomplished even with the Ghosts in the game. I want it to happen someday.
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Jul 22, 2014 22:50
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Chomp8645 posted:I agree completely. It's a dumb system and it has a "beginner's trap" effect to it for the exact reason you describe. New players think they can make a big play if they just choose Warfare or whatever but in reality nothing can really make up for passing on 2 VP. I realize I'm in the minority, but I feel Imp 1 is a totally valid and fun way to play the game. Sure if a new player doesn't take it in cycle that's almost always wrong, but you just need to explain it to them. Imp 1 offers some virtues over the other options. 1. It simplifies the strategy selection, which is great for a game with new players. TI is a little overwhelming to a newbie no matter what, so taking a little pressure off and ensuring no one ends the game with a single VP is good. 2. In a group of mixed experience, you can seat people such that the least experienced get Imp first. This helps close the skill gap, and while the better player will still likely win, it helps create closer competition though a subtler, more organic handicap than just giving free VPs or whatever. 3. In a group of similar experience, it creates a villain. Even before galaxy set up, someone is in the lead and needs to be dragged down. This adds another dimension to galaxy construction as the person who starts with Imp or Init will get the bad systems dumped on them. It adds a lot of focus to the early turns and trade agreements, which are otherwise a bit bleh since no one knows who is dangerous. Overall, I still prefer the set from SE, the decisions are tougher and you get to play with the cards that interact with strategy selection, since they aren't broken now. But I like to mix it up a bit, and for games with a first timer, I really like to use Imp, again, with explaining how important and powerful it is. hoobajoo fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 19:05
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hoobajoo posted:3. In a group of similar experience, it creates a villain. Even before galaxy set up, someone is in the lead and needs to be dragged down. This adds another dimension to galaxy construction as the person who starts with Imp or Init will get the bad systems dumped on them. It adds a lot of focus to the early turns and trade agreements, which are otherwise a bit bleh since no one knows who is dangerous. This is terrible because even just one person playing against you in galaxy creation or the first crucial turns can and will ruin the game for you. It will also allow other players to hide in the shadow of the person who just happened to get Imperial 1 first and become the real 'threat' that should be kept in check.
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Jul 23, 2014 22:57
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