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Petey posted:The documentary is getting a lot of press, in part because it's an amazing story, and in part because it's a sad one, as the victorious Carl Hayden students have been unable to attend college or get jobs due to their status: In what way does winning a robotics competition (with an MIT team as a contestant for dramatic effect) have anything to do with achieving financial success?
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Jul 26, 2014 16:25
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| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:52 |
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Cercadelmar posted:Because it shows that undocumented students are forced into poverty. Having watched the movie, the Hayden team were a bunch of awkward nerds who in any other situation would have been able to go to college. Your first point that undocumented workers are forced into poverty is correct. Your second point that they would have, if documented, went to college is a not only a non-sequitur argument but is also a strawman to draw attention away from the original claim. Your final point is, again, a non-sequitur argument. It is not established that they would have been successful on par with the MIT students even if they were citizens. Winning a robotics competition is in no way a guarantee that one can find a profitable career after his formal education. To make the logical leap you have made is factually absurd. vssrio23 fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 26, 2014 17:26
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Bip Roberts posted:It's not that absurd. Sorry. What is the connection between winning a robotics competitition and achieving financial success?
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Jul 26, 2014 17:34
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enraged_camel posted:Well, considering that one of the guys enrolled in community college and then got kicked out... That is correct. He was removed because he had no legal right to enroll. It is also likely a fact that he submitted falsed information to the school. College entry forms clearly require you to truthfully submit the status of your immigration status upon request for admission. You are also correct. No one did explicitly say that they should be as successful as the MIT students in writing. However, why were the MIT students used as a figure of merit for comparison? Is it not implicit in this article's reasoning, and indeed this documentary's, that these kids could have been as successful as the MIT students if, as you say, they were given a "chance"? For your claim that that they were not given a chance, that is also correct. They lack the requisite legal status to actively participate in the formal American economy. My point is that it is absurd to conjecture that by merely winning a robotics competition a student has an equal chance to acheive any type of financial success than runner-up student.
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Jul 26, 2014 17:54
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Cercadelmar posted:Somehow I assume they would have done better if they were citizens. I'm confused as to what you think the cause of undocumented students being forced into poverty is. One should not assume such things that they do not intricately understand. I do not myself believe I am confused by the question of why illegal immigrants and residents have depressed earnings in the formal economy. What I am confused about is why a winning a robotics competition is sign that a student will be successful in the adult world.
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Jul 26, 2014 17:59
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enraged_camel posted:The point the documentary makes is, look, these guys are smart enough and skilled enough to beat a group of people from one of the nation's top universities in an advanced technical competition when they had neither the same level of education nor the same level of resources to realistically be able to do so. By not giving them and those like them the right to become a part of American society, the US is losing out on a lot. What is the percentage is this "very good chance"? More importantly, after going to this "top university", how do you know each one of these students will be able to mimic their success at the competition during 4 years of advanced-level courses? Do you know know their grades, attendance, discplinary record, or any of their other qualifications? Is the only thing that gives you faith in them a politicized robotics competition?
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Jul 26, 2014 18:18
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| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 18:52 |
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Cercadelmar posted:Your argument is just strange. Like, yeah winning a robotics competition doesn't mean they'll be successful MIT super engineers. What it does mean is that they're good enough at robotics, engineering, and writing to be able to win in a college robotics competition as high school students. It's not a huge leap to assume they would do well with more education. That is correct, they did win the competition. What is unestablished is whether they have the character and aptitude for sustained performance to achieve financial successful after the competition. Winning a competition such as that is not a measure of one's future potential so much as it is a result of what one has already done. Your claim effectively assumes that the past result (the competition) is an indicator of future performance from the students. At its heart, this is a fallacious argument.
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Jul 26, 2014 18:29
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