Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Uznare
Jul 15, 2010

It's not animation, but the real stories!


Welcome to the Sakuga (Or: Awesome Animation) Thread




What is Sakuga?

Sakuga written as '作画' in Japanese has a literal meaning of 'drawing', 'image', or 'working drawing'. However in regards to this thread it takes on a slightly different meaning where it refers to exceptionally animated scenes, usually through the work of a talented animator.

Such scenes are a result of the unique nature of the Japanese production line. You can read some excellent articles on the matter below.

The animation process:
http://www.pelleas.net/aniTOP/index...production-line
http://washiblog.wordpress.com/2011...lent-behind-it/

Alright, I can get behind cool animation. But how do I identify it?

A decent place to start is This Panel from ACen 2013, it has a basic introduction to the concept of sakuga as well as a primer on the tells/styles of some of the most prominent animators in recent times such as ADTRW Favorites: Yoh Yoshinari, Hiroyuki Imaishi and Takeshi Koike.

I can sort of identify it now, but, is there a list of sakuga shows?

The nerds at #sakuga on rizon have compiled This handy list of shows from the last 4 decades considered to have outstanding animation or choreography. Note that itís not by any means a complete list and it may be biased by tastes and/or preference for certain animators.

More useful resources can be found here:

Animator list for newbies: http://www.pelleas.net/animators/
Sakuga MAD repository: https://www.youtube.com/user/BlueSakuga/videos
Sakugabooru (Repository of sakuga gifs & webms): http://sakuga.yshi.org

Uznare fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jul 29, 2014

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

fatherboxx
Mar 25, 2013



Sakuga is when you discover that the best part of your favorite cartoon was animated by a bona fide auteur and then you go on the hunt to watch every thing he was part of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xkNyzzn-ss

(takeshi koike)

Relin
Oct 6, 2002

You have been a most worthy adversary, but in every game, there are winners and there are losers. And as you know, in this game, losers get robotizicized!

i really would advise against using this as a guideline for what to watch if you don't have a familiarity with anime, a lot of things listed in that spreadsheet are middling to poo poo

AzraelNewtype
Nov 9, 2004

「ブレストバーン!!」


Relin posted:

i really would advise against using this as a guideline for what to watch if you don't have a familiarity with anime, a lot of things listed in that spreadsheet are middling to poo poo

Uznare, in the loving OP two whole posts before your insightful entry posted:

The nerds at #sakuga on rizon have compiled This handy list of shows from the last 4 decades considered to have outstanding animation or choreography. Note that itís not by any means a complete list and it may be biased by tastes and/or preference for certain animators.

Come on, dog.

aers
Feb 15, 2012



Relin posted:

i really would advise against using this as a guideline for what to watch if you don't have a familiarity with anime, a lot of things listed in that spreadsheet are middling to poo poo

Its not claiming to be a list of good anime its a list of anime with an overall high quality of animation I don't know how this is confusing

IShallRiseAgain
Sep 12, 2008

Well ain't that precious?



Satoshi Kon's films are full of Sakuga moments. This is especially true for Paprika, which is basically an excuse to show off awesome animation.
Paprika Opening
Paprika Parade Scene

Also, you should check out this music video made by Hayao Miyazaki. It has some pretty great animation.

Malloc Voidstar
May 7, 2007

Fuck the cowboys. Unf. Fuck em hard.

IShallRiseAgain posted:

Also, you should check out this music video made by Hayao Miyazaki. It has some pretty great animation.
And was going to have a Blu-ray release but got cancelled forever.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Relin posted:

i really would advise against using this as a guideline for what to watch if you don't have a familiarity with anime, a lot of things listed in that spreadsheet are middling to poo poo

I'm seeing a lot more extremes on that list than I am "middling" anything.

But yeah, there are some massive stinkers.

Uznare
Jul 15, 2010

It's not animation, but the real stories!


Tuxedo Catfish posted:

I'm seeing a lot more extremes on that list than I am "middling" anything.

But yeah, there are some massive stinkers.

I'm guessing neither of you can actually read, that list does not give a poo poo about the show being "Good" or "Bad". It's all about the shows having outstanding quality of animation. How hard is it to understand that?

For content:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4X1Z3S9R0w

That Yutapon MAD really highlights the fact that pretty much every cool scene in bebop is his work and that's real fuckin' cool.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Uznare posted:

I'm guessing neither of you can actually read, that list does not give a poo poo about the show being "Good" or "Bad". It's all about the shows having outstanding quality of animation. How hard is it to understand that?

Relin posted:

i really would advise against using this as a guideline for what to watch

I think you will find it is you, young Uznare, who is unable to read.

Cough Drop The Beat
Jan 22, 2012

by Lowtax


Recommending anime based solely on animation quality (the purpose of this thread) matters if a major part of why you watch cartoons is to appreciate animation and how beautiful its expression can be. I don't see how you can disagree from that perspective. When you're discussing sakuga, it's irrelevant what the content of said work is too. Besides that half or more of the entries in that list are definitively worthwhile beyond the animation.

Wittgen
Oct 13, 2012

We have decided to decline your offer of a butt kicking.


I'm surprised Ping-pong the animation isn't on the google document.

Srice
Sep 11, 2011



Wittgen posted:

I'm surprised Ping-pong the animation isn't on the google document.

I'm just assuming it was last updated earlier in the year since there's barely anything listed for 2014 period. Especially since all of Yuasa's other work is in it.

aers
Feb 15, 2012



We made it like half a year ago now, yeah. It was just sort of meant to be a generic answer to people asking "well, what do you consider a well-animated show/etc anyway" instead of a "watch these things" list, you'd be better served looking for MADs of the best parts of a lot of them instead if you really want to see the animation.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


The inclusion of K-ON is important because I believe that it's probably the most important anime of this century

DICKS FOR DINNER
Sep 6, 2008

Stand Proud


This thread is too beautiful to pass into the night without so much as a whimper so, I'm using this opportunity to remind you fuckin' nerds to watch Space Dandy because that poo poo is a YUTAPON DANCE PARTY

Watch Ping Pong while you're at it, too. Please Appreciate Sakuga

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Why the gently caress is MD Geist on the sakuga spreadsheet?

e: Like, that's not even a personal taste thing, it had a budget of about two paperclips and had to be completely redone (with Central Park Media's money) to even be loving watchable.

SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Sep 12, 2014

Guyver
Dec 5, 2006



SALT CURES HAM posted:

Like, that's not even a personal taste thing

Yes it is.


http://sakuga.yshi.org/post?tags=sokihei_m.d._geist

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


I don't believe what I'm seeing.

Uznare
Jul 15, 2010

It's not animation, but the real stories!


SALT CURES HAM posted:

I don't believe what I'm seeing.

What I'm seeing is that you're an idiot as proven by Guyver's 2 second usage of the booru search function.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011




Pictured: a show noteworthy for being well-animated, apparently.

e: like, yeah, I'll grant that there's a few well-animated shots in the final battle, but those are the only good-looking bits in the entire OVA and they all occur within about a three-minute span of time. Putting it on a spreadsheet of sakuga shows because after 35 minutes of Musashi Gundoh animation there's a low-tier Obari shot and a couple other okay bits is still pretty disingenuous.

SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Sep 12, 2014

Uznare
Jul 15, 2010

It's not animation, but the real stories!


SALT CURES HAM posted:



Pictured: a show noteworthy for being well-animated, apparently.

e: like, yeah, I'll grant that there's a few well-animated shots in the final battle, but those are the only good-looking bits in the entire OVA and they all occur within about a three-minute span of time. Putting it on a spreadsheet of sakuga shows because after 35 minutes of Musashi Gundoh animation there's a low-tier Obari shot and a couple other okay bits is still pretty disingenuous.

Considering gems like:

SALT CURES HAM posted:

Wait, am I missing something here? I mostly know Obari because he's obsessed with huge tits and makes hentai. Why the gently caress do we want him to come within 500 miles of anything Pacific Rim related and what does he have to do with SRW?

I would take anything you say on the subject with a massive grain of salt. Since you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011



You are defending MD Geist as having notably good animation.

You are defending MD Geist as having notably good animation.

You're either from Bizarro world or loving blind, there's no other explanation for this.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



Shows with notably bad animation can still have occasional flashes of good animation. Even Kill la Kill had that one bit in episode three.

XboxPants
Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.


Sakurazuka posted:

Shows with notably bad animation can still have occasional flashes of good animation. Even Kill la Kill had that one bit in episode three.

Yeah, I thought the whole point of this concept was "exceptionally animated scenes", completely regardless of the quality of the work as a whole.

If anything, a show that's 99% terrible, and then has a few really nicely animated scenes is the best example of sakuga possible.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



Dunno how many (if any) of these scenes count as sakuga but watch 20 minutes of missiles being fired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzXfVgYCxWI

Srice
Sep 11, 2011



Sakurazuka posted:

Shows with notably bad animation can still have occasional flashes of good animation. Even Kill la Kill had that one bit in episode three.

Yeah exactly. The stuff that was linked has some neat detail to it. Definitely not the finest work by the animators there, but that stuff (and MD Geist) is really neat from a historical perspective since you have a bunch of early 20-somethings being given the money to make whatever the heck they want as long as that neat power armor design is used. It really encapsulates how wild the OVA market could get.

XboxPants posted:

Yeah, I thought the whole point of this concept was "exceptionally animated scenes", completely regardless of the quality of the work as a whole.

If anything, a show that's 99% terrible, and then has a few really nicely animated scenes is the best example of sakuga possible.

Hell, I'm pretty sure this is the reasoning a lot of people stuck with stuff like Naruto back in the day.

Sure it drags, but what if they bust out something like the Rock Lee vs Gaara fight again!?

(I have a theory that Naruto probably bred a lot of sakuga folks, if only for the convenience of learning animator names to know when another episode with really cool animation would air)

DrSunshine
Mar 23, 2009

Did I just say that out loud~~?!!!


What about that one scene in the Naruto anime where Naruto fought Pain? The animation turned into this really weird, really stylized ... thing. It was pretty divisive -- some people loved the overall kind of choreography and stylized nature, others decried it as awful.

aers
Feb 15, 2012



Yamashita.

http://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/62...to-naruto_shipp

His team does a lot of Naruto work (mainly ED/OP stuff). They're in some ways the future of animation since its a bunch of younger animators who animate digitally (a lot of them draw in a customized version of flash, for example) instead of drawing on paper and having it scanned it. If you want to know more, take a look at the blurbs in here about web-gen animators - http://vanishingtrooper.wordpress.c...mation-of-2013/

Alternatively just look at the Yozakura Quartet tag (or watch it) on sakugabooru, since its the web-gen showoff anime. The entire first episode was done digitally, no paper drawings.

aers fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Sep 13, 2014

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011


It's hard to find shows that really qualify as sakuga shows, unless it's something auteur like Paranoia Agent or Space Dandy, where amazing directors attract a bunch of great animators.

Usually sakuga is hidden in normal shows. 21.5 minutes will be meh, but then 30 seconds will get totally awesome animation-wise. That's one thing I really like about anime. American/Canadian animated shows always have to have quality control so that one scene can't be a lot better than another. Meanwhile anime can have scenes with crap animation and scenes with great animation in the same episode. Though usually it also varies by what studio is doing the episode.

Btw, the number one sakuga success story is Bahi JD. He learned animation by absorbing the technique through the net, especially through AniPages, and now he works for Studio Bones and for Masaaki Yuasa's new studio in Japan. An incredible talent and hard worker.

http://bahijd.tumblr.com/

  • Locked thread