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SpaceSDoorGunner
May 4, 2018



Someone tell me why this is a bad idea. Seems a little too good to be true as a entry level person with no certs.


https://maxxpotential.com/apprentice/

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klosterdev
Oct 10, 2006

Na na na na na na na na Batman!

Is that the service that's basically Robert Half for indentured servitude where they have the right to sell first-dibs to you to a company once they're done training you?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

klosterdev posted:

Is that the service that's basically Robert Half for indentured servitude where they have the right to sell first-dibs to you to a company once they're done training you?

You don't get real certs, you just get Robert Half certs so you can't leave!

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof


My team has been arguing over Teams for an hour and a half about whether documentation for a thing exists.
Neither side has produced proof of their claim.
Apparently I am the only one that knows the answer and I ain't saying poo poo. Happy Hump Day.

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE



Robert "You're asking for too much money" Half

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Worst decision I ever made.


SpaceSDoorGunner posted:

Someone tell me why this is a bad idea. Seems a little too good to be true as a entry level person with no certs.


https://maxxpotential.com/apprentice/

Depends on the actual wage part. Youre probably not getting bennies and I doubt itll be higher than 15 an hour.

SpaceSDoorGunner
May 4, 2018



Defenestrategy posted:

Depends on the actual wage part. Youre probably not getting bennies and I doubt itll be higher than 15 an hour.

Starts at 15 and it's full time, which is about double minimum wage here.

So other than mediocre pay, not terrible? I figure I'll just do this for a year or so before I move back home or emigrate out of the country. I just want to do something in the industry before I go to school to study compsci.

Bob Morales posted:

You don't get real certs, you just get Robert Half certs so you can't leave!

I don't get it. Is there a joke I'm missing?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

I love the succulent taste of cop boots

SpaceSDoorGunner posted:

Starts at 15 and it's full time, which is about double minimum wage here.

So other than mediocre pay, not terrible? I figure I'll just do this for a year or so before I move back home or emigrate out of the country. I just want to do something in the industry before I go to school to study compsci.


I don't get it. Is there a joke I'm missing?

So typically to get clients etc you have to have people certified in X.

I'm thinking if in theory this company trains you but you just get some 'internal' certification where they allow you to work for their clients but you don't actually get certified in X so you can't leave. You could but you wouldn't really be employable.

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019


Their glassdoor reviews look sketchy. Everyone is super positive.

16 people aren't all going to like a company that much.

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Worst decision I ever made.


Bob Morales posted:

So typically to get clients etc you have to have people certified in X.

I'm thinking if in theory this company trains you but you just get some 'internal' certification where they allow you to work for their clients but you don't actually get certified in X so you can't leave. You could but you wouldn't really be employable.

I suppose you could use that time doing what ever to just buy time to actually cram for your sec+/net+/ccna and then when you get the cert you can just leave, so long as in you don't fall in to the trap of believing the cert they're giving you is worth anything.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



fortigate 60f or palo alto pa-220

CloFan
Nov 5, 2004







Fun Shoe

They look pretty similar, I think it would come down to UI preference and cost. I think the FGT is about half the cost? Datasheet claims higher throughput numbers for the Forti, but that might just be Palo being more realistic in their documentation.

Note that it doesn't come with any rackmount ears, and the status indicators and ports are on opposite sides which is super dumb. I bought two of the smaller Fortis and my rep gifted me a couple of these which are nice: https://www.amazon.com/Rackmount-RM...e/dp/B01MXMCODG

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006



My job search/pivot into security is not going well.

Seems like all of the jobs I want are actually either requiring a degree or 6-8 years in security in place of a degree. I'm also seeing a lot of requirements for experience in Azure which I am lacking. I've setup ADSync and migrated some small businesses to Exchange Online but that was nearly 6 years ago and I'm sure not all that relevant anymore.

Does anyone have any recommendations on training for Azure stuff? I remember way back in the day I was able to do some virtual labs to play around and learn with for free. Is Azure lab services the way to go for this now?

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



BaseballPCHiker posted:

My job search/pivot into security is not going well.

Seems like all of the jobs I want are actually either requiring a degree or 6-8 years in security in place of a degree. I'm also seeing a lot of requirements for experience in Azure which I am lacking. I've setup ADSync and migrated some small businesses to Exchange Online but that was nearly 6 years ago and I'm sure not all that relevant anymore.

job requirements are a wish list, not hard requirements. apply anyway.

quote:

Does anyone have any recommendations on training for Azure stuff? I remember way back in the day I was able to do some virtual labs to play around and learn with for free. Is Azure lab services the way to go for this now?

The cloud guru courses are very good. Nick Colyer's courses are what I used to study for the azure architect certification.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


BaseballPCHiker posted:

My job search/pivot into security is not going well.

Seems like all of the jobs I want are actually either requiring a degree or 6-8 years in security in place of a degree. I'm also seeing a lot of requirements for experience in Azure which I am lacking. I've setup ADSync and migrated some small businesses to Exchange Online but that was nearly 6 years ago and I'm sure not all that relevant anymore.

Does anyone have any recommendations on training for Azure stuff? I remember way back in the day I was able to do some virtual labs to play around and learn with for free. Is Azure lab services the way to go for this now?

Just a heads up, if you can afford it, consider looking for consulting type firms and take a position there as they generally invest in your certificates a and encourage you to try new things (while paying you for it).

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006



Matt Zerella posted:

Just a heads up, if you can afford it, consider looking for consulting type firms and take a position there as they generally invest in your certificates a and encourage you to try new things (while paying you for it).

I may end up doing that. I prepared myself to take a bit of a paycut to get an entry level security position, I was just hoping it'd be in the $10k range and not the $20-30k range. My employer does pay for certs, I got my CISSP earlier this month. I was hoping to quit studying for certs and actually do some real world work so I'm not studying every night. Or at least not studying in a formal way, and just playing around with labs in free time.

Sickening
Jul 15, 2007

BLack Summer was the Best Summer

BaseballPCHiker posted:

My job search/pivot into security is not going well.

Seems like all of the jobs I want are actually either requiring a degree or 6-8 years in security in place of a degree. I'm also seeing a lot of requirements for experience in Azure which I am lacking. I've setup ADSync and migrated some small businesses to Exchange Online but that was nearly 6 years ago and I'm sure not all that relevant anymore.

Does anyone have any recommendations on training for Azure stuff? I remember way back in the day I was able to do some virtual labs to play around and learn with for free. Is Azure lab services the way to go for this now?

Nothing beats actually using it. The poo poo part about azure from a learning perspective is that they have gated so many of the useful tools behind licensing that you as a learner aren't going to have access to. So much of it is E5/atp2/whateverthefuck and its beyond stupid. Saying that, all the microsoft coursework I have done in the last year was pretty useful.

AWS? Licensing is basically nonexistent. You aren't going to be able to throw up things like amazon shield advanced for a lab, but there is very little you can't build out just to learn for a small run fee before you delete it.

On the idea that you want to learn azure and you don't currently have access to an azure tenant through your job, pay for the Microsoft services or just youtube it. For the security side, knowing these services inside and out should be doable from youtube alone.

*Azure Security Center and Azure Security Policies. (I mention them together because they work off each other) Actually having advanced knowledge of Azure security policies is a big leg up as 90% of companies don't use them at all.
*Azure Active Directory Security Best Practices. Its really not a long topic as you might expect. Not knowing it inside and out is a big disadvantage.
*Azure Network Security Groups. Knowing what these are, how to configure them, and how to audit them is kind of a big deal.
*Log Analytics workspaces. What they are, how they work, and more importantly, how to build alerts and log forwarding based on them.
*Office 365 Security & Compliance Center + Microsoft 365 compliance. If you are using azure you are most likely using office 365 and you are probably touching this poo. You gotta know it. Its super simple and not very good stuff, but some interviewer is probably going to ask.


Of course there is more, but that is where I would suggest you start. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/az...es-and-patterns <--- is actually a decent read even if you can't touch stuff.

And from a hiring manager standpoint which I am at the moment, if you understand all of the above and can do a lot of the azure configuration through Terraform, you are uniquely useful even without a ton of experience. You would be a lot more useful in aws, but i digress.

Sickening fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Oct 14, 2020

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


Speaking of terraform, Iím doing the training on Udemy for the associate cert right now and its pretty good. I already have experience with TF and Iím still picking things up.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



Matt Zerella posted:

Speaking of terraform, Iím doing the training on Udemy for the associate cert right now and its pretty good. I already have experience with TF and Iím still picking things up.

Whatís the name of the course? I might be interested.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010



I know Microsoft was really touting their new MS Learn courses and Azure being one of the initial offerings. Taking their free lessons lets you do real stuff like powershell into an Azure environment and setting it up.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/learn/azure/

George H.W. Cunt fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Oct 14, 2020

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



George H.W. stinkyhole posted:

I know Microsoft was really touting their new MS Learn courses and Azure being on the of initial offerings. Taking their free lessons lets you do real stuff like powershell into an Azure environment and setting it up.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/learn/azure/

Isn't MS Learn, Lynda rebranded?

Also, the pluralsight Azure courses are free as part of some partnership thing too.

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006




Really thank you for all of the advice. I will look into that link you sent, and see if I can do some labs in Azure for relatively cheap each month. Thankfully at a conceptual level a lot of their security policy ideas seem to overlap with AWSs.

Its just so frustrating trying to make a pivot into IT security. There is this catch-22 of a lack of IT security professionals, and no entry level security jobs. I feel like I am generally pretty sharp. I work full time in networking, I know routing and switching really well, something every career advice piece I read says you need.

I have some experience in AWS. When I was studying for my AWS Solutions Architect cert I spun up plenty of my own VPCs, EC2 instances, S3 volumes, etc and labbed to my hearts content for like $5 a month on free tier. I still run my personal blog, and family file storage in AWS. Its just that I havent done any of this stuff in a professional environment at scale. I'm struggling to get across that I do have experience in an area at a personal level. Maybe I need to say I did consulting in AWS or something for a "friend" and list the experience that way.

I really thought that once I had my CISSP I could get my foot in the door to at least interview places but that hasnt been the case so far.

Sickening
Jul 15, 2007

BLack Summer was the Best Summer

BaseballPCHiker posted:

Really thank you for all of the advice. I will look into that link you sent, and see if I can do some labs in Azure for relatively cheap each month. Thankfully at a conceptual level a lot of their security policy ideas seem to overlap with AWSs.

Its just so frustrating trying to make a pivot into IT security. There is this catch-22 of a lack of IT security professionals, and no entry level security jobs. I feel like I am generally pretty sharp. I work full time in networking, I know routing and switching really well, something every career advice piece I read says you need.

I have some experience in AWS. When I was studying for my AWS Solutions Architect cert I spun up plenty of my own VPCs, EC2 instances, S3 volumes, etc and labbed to my hearts content for like $5 a month on free tier. I still run my personal blog, and family file storage in AWS. Its just that I havent done any of this stuff in a professional environment at scale. I'm struggling to get across that I do have experience in an area at a personal level. Maybe I need to say I did consulting in AWS or something for a "friend" and list the experience that way.

I really thought that once I had my CISSP I could get my foot in the door to at least interview places but that hasnt been the case so far.

The industry is moving a bit thankfully. Security teams are needed to actually press buttons and do things, not just look over other people homework and give it a grade. More folks with actually ops/dev experience are being injected in security because its what is actually useful, not folks who don't know how to use the technology they want to secure.

It does put entry level security in a weird spot. Honestly entry level should be operations experience and the like, how it was originally intended. The issue is that non-technical people have squatted in this industry for a long time and try to gatekeep based on years in security silo'd positions. Those folks are being phased out but they still exist. I feel like the places that are hiring the most want people with more hands on and less paper pushers.

Matt Zerella
Oct 7, 2002


The Fool posted:

Whatís the name of the course? I might be interested.

Hashicorp Certified: Terraform Associate 2020

SpaceSDoorGunner
May 4, 2018



Defenestrategy posted:

I suppose you could use that time doing what ever to just buy time to actually cram for your sec+/net+/ccna and then when you get the cert you can just leave, so long as in you don't fall in to the trap of believing the cert they're giving you is worth anything.

That's basically my plan. I'm shooting to get working on either Net+ or Sec+ around the time I'd be starting there. The other "good" option in this region is the veteran job program MSSA (I think it's basically a Azure devops course?), which I've heard worse things about, cloud computing isn't really my thing except as it applies to other domains, and I'd to pay tuition to take.

Worse case scenario I'm back to being a nurse if it turns out to be garbage but I'm tired of working 12 hours shifts and being elbow deep in human poo poo and blood.

Buff Hardback
Jun 11, 2019


SpaceSDoorGunner posted:

That's basically my plan. I'm shooting to get working on either Net+ or Sec+ around the time I'd be starting there. The other "good" option in this region is the veteran job program MSSA (I think it's basically a Azure devops course?), which I've heard worse things about, cloud computing isn't really my thing except as it applies to other domains, and I'd to pay tuition to take.

Worse case scenario I'm back to being a nurse if it turns out to be garbage but I'm tired of working 12 hours shifts and being elbow deep in human poo poo and blood.

Can confirm Sec+ opens a shitton of doors.

Scroll back a page or two, but my job offer can be summarized as "apply on Friday, the day after I get Sec+, get a call the next Monday asking to schedule an interview for Friday, interview Friday, get a call on Tuesday with job offer"

I have also found out by comparing to the salary schedule that I am definitely considered classified management, and I only work 225 days a year (which seems like less than I was previously working as a IT Systems Tech I).

xsf421
Feb 17, 2011



SpaceSDoorGunner posted:

That's basically my plan. I'm shooting to get working on either Net+ or Sec+ around the time I'd be starting there. The other "good" option in this region is the veteran job program MSSA (I think it's basically a Azure devops course?), which I've heard worse things about, cloud computing isn't really my thing except as it applies to other domains, and I'd to pay tuition to take.

Worse case scenario I'm back to being a nurse if it turns out to be garbage but I'm tired of working 12 hours shifts and being elbow deep in human poo poo and blood.

Where are you located and what are you interested in? PM me, I might have something remote that would be better than selling your soul to Robert Half.

Sickening
Jul 15, 2007

BLack Summer was the Best Summer

Crossposting from the infosec thread.


Barnes and noble apparently don't patch things.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...-customer-data/

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013
ASK ME ABOUT NOT TIPPING DELIVERY DRIVERS, OR ABOUT MY DIET OF CANNED BABY CORN AND CHICKEN NUGGETS

I'm tired.

Aside from the big migration a few weeks ago, I've done a bunch of smaller unrelated bits of live work and none have gone really according to plan and involved some adhoc jq or otherwise yolo to get out the door.

It's crazy how much that kind of stuff takes out of you.


quote:

I was told it was a legacy configuration and probably isn't needed anymore, but they were just going to verify, I should know for sure this morning

Okay, the good news is they don't expect anyone to be using it. The bad news is they can't guarantee it. It's a shared service so there could be someone somewhere using it.

it could be possible that someone is implementing different in dev than in other environments

I finally got an answer as to what the deal is with the screwed up split-brain data path thing that caused me so much grief for my big migration. Its a big Į\_(ツ)_/Į

So now I'm going to see if I can track down anything using the special path in all the environments, which may be different in each, and then figure out how I'm going to get rid with it and just use normal ingress.

Methanar
Sep 26, 2013
ASK ME ABOUT NOT TIPPING DELIVERY DRIVERS, OR ABOUT MY DIET OF CANNED BABY CORN AND CHICKEN NUGGETS

good news is the new guy on my team is up to speed enough that I've started delegating work to him left and right.

Sickening
Jul 15, 2007

BLack Summer was the Best Summer

On the search for another moonlighting gig and I replied to a position from a recruiter on linkedin. The position was 100% remote but the recruiter brought it up almost right away that they all work together in one constantly online meeting. Video cameras and all. She pivoting saying that it wasn't keep big brother anyone but instead for the sake of team building.

After letting her know that sounds creepy and no thanks, I was able to at least get the name of the company. None other than the recently famous https://www.tylertech.com/ .

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007


RICKARUS

It's Moot baby!




Sickening posted:

The position was 100% remote but the recruiter brought it up almost right away that they all work together in one constantly online meeting. Video cameras and all. She pivoting saying that it wasn't keep big brother anyone but instead for the sake of team building.

I'm an extrovert and really really miss in-person interaction in the office these days, but wtffffffffffff is this, holy poo poo that's creepy


vvv omg

CLAM DOWN fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Oct 15, 2020

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

CLAM DOWN posted:

I'm an extrovert and really really miss in-person interaction in the office these days, but wtffffffffffff is this, holy poo poo that's creepy

All our at home call center staff are required to have camera's on for their entire 8 hour shift by their manager. It's hosed up.

Thomamelas
Mar 11, 2009


CLAM DOWN posted:

I'm an extrovert and really really miss in-person interaction in the office these days, but wtffffffffffff is this, holy poo poo that's creepy


vvv omg

I literally work for a company that enables Big Brother and management came out and said they found the idea creepy as gently caress.

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE


at my old company my brother took over managing the team I was on.

He has them in a voice chat meeting all day so they can coordinate, but no camera, just audio and it's not like he's policing them all 8 hours or whatever; half of the time they are BSing while working on things.

Sickening
Jul 15, 2007

BLack Summer was the Best Summer

MF_James posted:

at my old company my brother took over managing the team I was on.

He has them in a voice chat meeting all day so they can coordinate, but no camera, just audio and it's not like he's policing them all 8 hours or whatever; half of the time they are BSing while working on things.

Less bad, but definitely weird.

klosterdev
Oct 10, 2006

Na na na na na na na na Batman!

Anyone have success/horror stories running Docusign or Adobe Sign?

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



I do actually

We are rolling out docusign right now

Did you have any specific questions?

E:

Basic gist is adobe sign bad, docusign (mostly) good

The Fool fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Oct 15, 2020

klosterdev
Oct 10, 2006

Na na na na na na na na Batman!

Nothing too specific just yet. We're looking into digital signing solutions, especially in regards to potential integration with SharePoint Online. (and Teams in Adobe Sign's case) The initial tentative quotes just came in, roughly equal in value, and we're going to be arranging a demo from each of them. This is very new territory for me, and since $ is roughly equal we'll probably be looking more into ease of user experience and how much of a pain in the neck it'll be to administer, especially in a O365 context.

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The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



Adobe Sign was a non-starter for us due to their non-existent data retention tools.

We're rolling out Docusign right now and another team is building a bunch of workflows in Logic Apps to integrate with Sharepoint Online.

The only complaint I have about Docsign right now is that setting it up with ADFS was way dumber than it needed to be.

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