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Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

People keep asking if I'm taking a vacation between jobs. Why bother when this 4 week notice is an absolute vacation in itself

Yesterday I watched through Tom 7s youtube videos.

Today I'll see how much battlebots I can get through.

By May I'm going to have a real itch for working hard again.

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bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019



Judge Schnoopy posted:

People keep asking if I'm taking a vacation between jobs. Why bother when this 4 week notice is an absolute vacation in itself

Yesterday I watched through Tom 7s youtube videos.

Today I'll see how much battlebots I can get through.

By May I'm going to have a real itch for working hard again.

i'm really into guys grocery games this week. i should like, study for my cissp but also why, new job doesnt care (wasnt part of why they hired me)

I had a scheduled vacation during the "decision week" from the new place in march which was handy, I'm pretty refreshed.

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE



short timing does indeed own.

bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019



I also have had the same overall employer for over 10 years, so while I've put in notice before it's always been to move business units, meaning they've worked me mostly until the last since there's a lot less offboarding & no loss of "trust."

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


It's alright man. Not saying this is what you're feeling, but after working somewhere for a long time (17 years at my last place) it can be a bit of an ego blow to realize that they'll get along just fine when you're gone.

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

18 years at my current place. I have zero doubt if I died tomorrow it would barely be a blip in company operations, if that.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Other countries have notice periods measured in months. We're currently waiting on a 2 month notice period for an employee to start.

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

Gettin' woke about vaccines

Thereís always a part of you that wants everyone to care youíre leaving and for everything you left behind to explode because itís missing your expert guidance. Sometimes both things happen, lots of times you wonít even find out if thatís the case.

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

H110Hawk posted:

Other countries have notice periods measured in months. We're currently waiting on a 2 month notice period for an employee to start.

This makes more sense when I remember companies over there can't just fire anybody for literally no reason any day they like.

At-Will employment is crazy as hell

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


H110Hawk posted:

Other countries have notice periods measured in months. We're currently waiting on a 2 month notice period for an employee to start.

On the flip side you can't just be fired for no reason. France has the best employment laws I've run across in my career. We acquired a company with an office there and you couldn't fire those people if you wanted to. One guy who was retiring just didn't do poo poo for like 2 years, then took 9 months accrued vacation, and hosed off with his pension. I love it.

/looks for Clam to post


edit: I still talk to a couple friends/former co workers from my last job that I left at the beginning of the year. I was scapegoated for a few weeks about why a couple projects were not where they were supposed to be, and now no one even thinks about me anymore. HR didn't even bother to follow up and send me shipping information for my company equipment. They literally don't care, and yeah, it was an ego blow.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

Cat Army


skipdogg posted:

On the flip side you can't just be fired for no reason. France has the best employment laws I've run across in my career. We acquired a company with an office there and you couldn't fire those people if you wanted to. One guy who was retiring just didn't do poo poo for like 2 years, then took 9 months accrued vacation, and hosed off with his pension. I love it.

/looks for Clam to post

I'm not sure this is the ringing endorsement that you think it is.


obviously i'm not in favour of willy nilly firing old pensioners either, but still.

then again maybe the solution is for companies to just... fill out the paperwork for firing with cause? honestly, I don't know poo poo about poo poo, and probably shouldn't have posted about another country's employment laws I don't know anything about!

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

Gettin' woke about vaccines

The Iron Rose posted:

I'm not sure this is the ringing endorsement that you think it is.


obviously i'm not in favour of willy nilly firing old pensioners either, but still.

then again maybe the solution is for companies to just... fill out the paperwork for firing with cause? honestly, I don't know poo poo about poo poo, and probably shouldn't have posted about another country's employment laws I don't know anything about!

Capitalism is trash and anyone who Ďabusesí the system they have to work with is cool imo

bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019



skipdogg posted:

It's alright man. Not saying this is what you're feeling, but after working somewhere for a long time (17 years at my last place) it can be a bit of an ego blow to realize that they'll get along just fine when you're gone.

This does not at all bother me actually because I built this dept from the ground up, it doing fine without me is an ego boost

I'm in high spirits just mad I gave 3 weeks.

(edit: also... it will do fine without me as long as they promote my #2, who at this point does way more work than i do)

skipdogg
Nov 29, 2004
Resident SRT-4 Expert


I don't know the specifics, especially since we were a US based company with an office in France. Eventually some folks were laid off, but it was a long and expensive process. I don't know the details of course, but between the 2 extremes of US based at-will employment and the French extreme, I'll lean towards the French way of doing things.

bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019



My employer broke the relationship with me back in 2019 & I've been playing out the string ever since, I was probably gone in Mar 2020 but the job got pulled the second covid happened. It's hard to explain but tl;dr I was on a long vacation & all of my stuff was stolen leaving me stranded in a rural area and they tried to fire me for this. They are also a university that's 100+ years old, they'll be fine.

Also I realized since I gave 3 weeks I will accrue 1.66 vacation days in april & then get paid out for it lmao

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

Cat Army


i am a moron posted:

Capitalism is trash and anyone who Ďabusesí the system they have to work with is cool imo

cool but i also probably don't want to be working with them on my team

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


bus hustler posted:

My employer broke the relationship with me back in 2019 & I've been playing out the string ever since, I was probably gone in Mar 2020 but the job got pulled the second covid happened. It's hard to explain but tl;dr I was on a long vacation & all of my stuff was stolen leaving me stranded in a rural area and they tried to fire me for this. They are also a university that's 100+ years old, they'll be fine.

Also I realized since I gave 3 weeks I will accrue 1.66 vacation days in april & then get paid out for it lmao

Honestly I wanna hear this story because holy crap.

Hughmoris
Apr 21, 2007
Let's go to the abyss!

The Iron Rose posted:

cool but i also probably don't want to be working with them on my team

Or be in need of their services.

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

Gettin' woke about vaccines

The Iron Rose posted:

cool but i also probably don't want to be working with them on my team

Why not though? Teams of high performers are awful, itís better to have a bunch of lovely coworkers so you can shine more easily

Hughmoris posted:

Or be in need of their services.

I guess this boils down to caring about your job. We have unlimited PTO and someone was approved to take three months off and my boss is kinda like jfc but Iím over here laughing. Weíre down a person oh well, still not working more than 40

i am a moron fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Apr 6, 2021

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

Cat Army


i am a moron posted:

Why not though? Teams of high performers are awful, itís better to have a bunch of lovely coworkers so you can shine more easily

I like to learn things from my colleagues! I hear this, and I've been on this team and it worked well for me career wise. But that's no way to learn and grow. I like working with smart, intelligent, hardworking people because they make me a better engineer.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



Iíd rather be on a team full of normal people that know how to do their jobs and have good work/life balance.

klosterdev
Oct 10, 2006

Na na na na na na na na Batman!

Being the only competent person in IT sounds like a recipe for burnout and never being able to take an uninterrupted vacation

Having coworkers and a boss I can trust to take care of poo poo when I'm working on other things rules

bus hustler
Mar 14, 2019



Podima posted:

Honestly I wanna hear this story because holy crap.

So I took a long (5-6 week) vacation to do a 725 mile canoe camping trip through the northeast with my best friend. I had saved vacation for a year+, been talking about it forever, you know the whole thing. I saved 6 weeks vacation.

I submitted for 4 weeks and had a flexible arrangement with my boss depending on how fast we moved that I'd put in the other weeks as necessary from the road, but I had six weeks banked.

I put in for the 5th week of vacation from a library. After the 5th week we were behind (and not going to finish, my friend got food poisoning) but wanted to get as far as we could before coming home. The... friday? before the weekend we were paddling against the current in rural VT when we hit a point where we couldn't outpaddle the current, so we "pulled over." Long story short, while we were moving our boat and the gear a truck rolled up and stole my entire backpack from the side of the road and drove away. The bag had everything besides what I had on me - my credit cards/money, my passport, my LSD, my regular glasses, everything.

In the midst of recovering from this I neglected to put in for the 6th week of vacation. A hotel in the town generously gave us a night at a cheap rate, and then let us camp behind their building for free. My boss who did not get anything in writing with me forgot about this 6th week and decided that the Monday when I didn't show up I was no call/no show. They did not contact me, I had no idea. I'm stranded in VT thinking I'm just late in putting in my time for the week. On tuesday night I get essentially a SCREAMING text message at me telling me I was absent without permission from work and would be fired if I wasnt there the next morning.

I hitched a ride to a town and called in a mega favor to have someone drive me back home. I sat in my boss' office for an hour the next day in my prescription sunglasses while they yelled at me & formally disciplined me for taking unapproved absence time. When I walked in my direct report said "hey! i thought you were back next week?"

These two things happening back to back eventually led to me having a breakdown and getting prescribed medication

bus hustler fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Apr 6, 2021

12 rats tied together
Sep 7, 2006



Just fyi I had a kitchen job (not a field that treats its employees kindly) where I missed two days of work because my bus broke down in Shallote, North Carolina. When I finally got back to town and to work I told my boss and he was like "Oh, we were worried about you, glad you're ok".

Your boss is a shithead.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

You've got the Shine
You've got the power

lomarf


Cripes. Yeah your boss sucked and I'm glad you're heading to a different job, that's insane.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005


Oven Wrangler

The Fool posted:

Iíd rather be on a team full of normal people that know how to do their jobs and have good work/life balance.

wow, serious hot take here

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

Gettin' woke about vaccines

I was being somewhat facetious, or maybe a devils advocate or something. I donít know what my deal is. Anyways people getting paid for loving around is cool with me, but yes having a bunch of useless coworkers isnít fun

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020





i am a moron posted:

Weíre down a person oh well, still not working more than 40

Do I need to switch jobs to find something like this? Is this really a common deal in IT jobs like what I keep hearing from goons??

I am exempt FT. If I refused to work more than 40 hours, none of our overly-optimistic client deadlines would get met, and I probably wouldn't be able to keep my job for very long, if you know what I mean.

Is my gig overly harsh / grindy or what? I keep hearing this and it makes me feel the grass is greener, but I don't know if I'm focusing on corner cases that are overly generous to computer touchers.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003



Nah, sadly your experience is closer to what most people experience.

This thread is just full of a bunch of olds that have gone through all that poo poo and found places that arenít terrible.

Good places are out there though so thereís no reason to stay at a place that doesnít treat you they way you deserve.

i am a moron
Nov 12, 2020

Gettin' woke about vaccines

Inner Light posted:

Do I need to switch jobs to find something like this? Is this really a common deal in IT jobs like what I keep hearing from goons??

I am exempt FT. If I refused to work more than 40 hours, none of our overly-optimistic client deadlines would get met, and I probably wouldn't be able to keep my job for very long, if you know what I mean.

Is my gig overly harsh / grindy or what? I keep hearing this and it makes me feel the grass is greener, but I don't know if I'm focusing on corner cases that are overly generous to computer touchers.

I work for a consulting company that has an impossible time retaining highly skilled cloud people and has banned more than 40 hours/week. Some people do like... IP development or conferences or LinkedIn articles but our target is only 70% utilization anyways. If they bump us up to 100% you can always opt out of the other stuff and no one will say anything. Some people at 100 still do non billable stuff but I sure wonít.

12 rats tied together
Sep 7, 2006



Since becoming salaried I have never worked more than 40 hours in a week, my take on it is that I will re-arrange my personal life to work for any period of 8 contiguous hours required to make something happen at my employer. I go home early/come in late around these time periods to compensate and keep my total hours worked at 40.

If someone pulled the "you're salaried so we expect you to pull 60 hours this week" on me I would immediately resign. There's about a billion computer toucher jobs out there and since I don't have to tolerate it, I won't.

Internet Explorer
Jun 1, 2005


Oven Wrangler

Inner Light posted:

Do I need to switch jobs to find something like this? Is this really a common deal in IT jobs like what I keep hearing from goons??

I am exempt FT. If I refused to work more than 40 hours, none of our overly-optimistic client deadlines would get met, and I probably wouldn't be able to keep my job for very long, if you know what I mean.

Is my gig overly harsh / grindy or what? I keep hearing this and it makes me feel the grass is greener, but I don't know if I'm focusing on corner cases that are overly generous to computer touchers.

The truth of the matter is that in IT, you always have more work than you could ever possibly finish. If you don't put up a barrier, you will absolutely work yourself to death. If you're doing consulting and management has you slammed with projects, that's because the harder they ride you, the more money they make. The only real good news for IT folks is that it's pretty much always a hot field and you can take your skills and go somewhere else.

The real problem here, besides, ah... capitalism, is that you're exempt FT but are working on client projects. That's what causes that conflict between you and your employer to be more pronounced. When I was in your shoes, I fought for hourly pay for OT, even though we were "salary exempt," it came in the form of bonuses that were agreed upon beforehand. At the very least you should try to get comp time, and be sure you consider that your time inside of 8am to 5pm is less valuable than your weekend. So if you end up working 8 hours on a Saturday, you really should be getting time and a half or double time of comp.

So yeah, find a new job or fight to make your current job better. It's easier if you can get some other engineers to take a stand with you, even if you don't officially call it a union.

uhhhhahhhhohahhh
Oct 9, 2012


klosterdev posted:

Being the only competent person in IT sounds like a recipe for burnout and never being able to take an uninterrupted vacation

Having coworkers and a boss I can trust to take care of poo poo when I'm working on other things rules

worse: I'm not actually competent but someone has texted or called me every single time I've had a week off about something going wrong

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006



The Fool posted:

Nah, sadly your experience is closer to what most people experience.

This thread is just full of a bunch of olds that have gone through all that poo poo and found places that arenít terrible.

Good places are out there though so thereís no reason to stay at a place that doesnít treat you they way you deserve.


Internet Explorer posted:

The truth of the matter is that in IT, you always have more work than you could ever possibly finish. If you don't put up a barrier, you will absolutely work yourself to death.

This is all so true. When I was younger and starting out I definitely put in plenty of 50-60 hour weeks, thinking I was moving myself up the ladder and gaining useful experience, which was true to an extent but not worth it ultimately. You end up getting burned out in the long run. Almost anywhere you work there will be more work, and more to learn. At my current role, I dont have a work phone, or work email on my personal phone. If poo poo hits the fan and I get a call during my on-call week I'm making up the time later on somehow.

Find a good balance for yourself. Remember that you arent family to your employer, and that as satisfying as it is to think that a place cant survive without you, it can. If you leave a place they'll just keep plodding on, maybe worse off, but still plodding away.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



12 rats tied together posted:

Since becoming salaried I have never worked more than 40 hours in a week, my take on it is that I will re-arrange my personal life to work for any period of 8 contiguous hours required to make something happen at my employer. I go home early/come in late around these time periods to compensate and keep my total hours worked at 40.

If someone pulled the "you're salaried so we expect you to pull 60 hours this week" on me I would immediately resign. There's about a billion computer toucher jobs out there and since I don't have to tolerate it, I won't.

I had an interview once where they were looking for an IT Manager, and they put right in the loving ad: "Salaried position, 50-55 hours expected"

Internet Explorer posted:

The truth of the matter is that in IT, you always have more work than you could ever possibly finish. If you don't put up a barrier, you will absolutely work yourself to death. If you're doing consulting and management has you slammed with projects, that's because the harder they ride you, the more money they make.

True, but there's a difference between things that it would be nice to do, or I could do, and things I have to do.

Answer emails, break/fix tickets, keep systems patched, install new systems....those are all things that have to be done. If there are more of those than you can do, when you're actually dedicating 40 hours a week to working, then you need help or your department and/org organization needs to make some changes.

If you take the 'If there's time to lean, then there's time to clean' from the restaurant industry, sure, there's always stuff to do. I've got closets and patch panels I could clean up, I could clear up some random poo poo in AD, firewall rules, etc.

Some people will also just try to take on all kinds of other stuff and spend time double and triple checking things etc in some quest to seem busy or feel important or whatever.

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE


Bob Morales posted:

If you take the 'If there's time to lean, then there's time to clean' from the restaurant industry, sure, there's always stuff to do.

The restaurant I worked for in college lost a class action lawsuit for having servers do dishes and poo poo, that was a nice $1000 check.

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020





Great feedback and thoughts from what I posted all, thank you. I work for a large place so I doubt I have much individual freedom, but the context and perspective is very helpful.

Now to get more certifications and build my non-existent GitHub portfolio so I can actually be competitive if I do want to leave. I've been saying that for years and I can't keep ignoring the needful.

BaseballPCHiker
Jan 16, 2006



Certs get poo poo on to a certain extent, but they absolutely played a part in me advancing my career.

Ive steadily been able to get more well regarded certs, alongside relevant work experience, to put myself in a position to job hop whenever I want to. Definitely go get some certs to help yourself out!

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006


Judge Schnoopy posted:

This makes more sense when I remember companies over there can't just fire anybody for literally no reason any day they like.

At-Will employment is crazy as hell


skipdogg posted:

On the flip side you can't just be fired for no reason. France has the best employment laws I've run across in my career. We acquired a company with an office there and you couldn't fire those people if you wanted to. One guy who was retiring just didn't do poo poo for like 2 years, then took 9 months accrued vacation, and hosed off with his pension. I love it.

Yeah I'm not taking a stance in my post there. I think if you have statutory notice periods it puts everyone on equal footing and so you don't have the tug of war where your new employer pushes you to start TODAY!!!!

Do I think they should add up to >3 months personally? No. Do I think setting it at a flat 4 weeks is a good idea? Sure.

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Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020





BaseballPCHiker posted:

Certs get poo poo on to a certain extent, but they absolutely played a part in me advancing my career.

Ive steadily been able to get more well regarded certs, alongside relevant work experience, to put myself in a position to job hop whenever I want to. Definitely go get some certs to help yourself out!

Any excellent catch-all certs you all would recommend? I can't imagine this is the first time getting asked in the thread so apologies if this is repetitive or if there's a better place to consult.

I have a DevOps background and am working up the specialization chain for AWS and Azure (I have the intro certs for both), plus I am working on getting a HashiCorp Terraform cert soon. Any others off the top of your heads worth exploring?

Of course everybody has different specializations and interests too, don't be afraid to suggest more esoteric ones if they've struck you as particularly valuable or interesting..

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