Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
MustardFacial
Jun 20, 2011

Fucker in charge of you fucking fucks



freeasinbeer posted:

Yet most companies keep hiring more of them, and at ever increasing salaries.

Maybe getting in their way isn’t a winning career strategy?

I could totally see y’all being happy in your fiefdom though.

Also no local admin means no using y’all’s domain admin either, the amount of holier then thou security teams and admin teams I’ve seen yolo-ing whatever they want…

lmao, this screams of "the security team told me I have to turn on authentication in elasticsearch and it makes me so mad."

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




Developers should never be allowed to have local admin, and are always, universally, far more incompetent than they think they are.

That's my contribution heh

Proud Christian Mom
Dec 20, 2006
READING COMPREHENSION IS HARD

freeasinbeer posted:

Yet most companies keep hiring more of them, and at ever increasing salaries.

Maybe getting in their way isn’t a winning career strategy?

I could totally see y’all being happy in your fiefdom though.

Also no local admin means no using y’all’s domain admin either, the amount of holier then thou security teams and admin teams I’ve seen yolo-ing whatever they want…

you're a dime a dozen, dude

Sprechensiesexy
Dec 26, 2010

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
It's all fun and games and local admin rights until PCI-DSS compliance rolls around.

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


CLAM DOWN posted:

Developers should never be allowed to have local admin, and are always, universally, far more incompetent than they think they are.

That's my contribution heh

It’s not just local admin, I had to talk down a whole team from trying to make their applications keyvault readable by other teams because they were too lazy to setup apim

unbutthurtable
Dec 2, 2016

Total. Tox. Rereg.


College Slice
there's so much meat on these bones lol

freeasinbeer
Mar 26, 2015

by Fluffdaddy

MustardFacial posted:

lmao, this screams of "the security team told me I have to turn on authentication in elasticsearch and it makes me so mad."

Eh; nope totally fine with this, I love to secure poo poo.

Our SSO stuff being owned by the more traditional IT team makes this a pain, as it takes forever and a ton of friction to add new apps.

They also do really bizarre stuff so we 2x the amount of groups as global users.

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

CLAM DOWN posted:

Developers should never be allowed to have local admin, and are always, universally, far more incompetent than they think they are.

That's my contribution heh

Why would devs ever need local admin? Shouldn't it just be write code -> push to git -> use jenkins/ansible/whatever pipeline to deploy a VM to test whatever?

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


CLAM DOWN posted:

Developers should never be allowed to have local admin, and are always, universally, far more incompetent than they think they are.

That's my contribution heh

I operate under the assumption that everybody has Peter Principle'd into their current role, including myself.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

Defenestrategy posted:

Why would devs ever need local admin? Shouldn't it just be write code -> push to git -> use jenkins/ansible/whatever pipeline to deploy a VM to test whatever?

They need to install 50 tools on their end especially if they are running a dev/test environment on their local machine

Hughmoris
Apr 21, 2007
Let's go to the abyss!

Vargatron posted:

I operate under the assumption that everybody has Peter Principle'd into their current role, including myself.

robbed paul?

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




Defenestrategy posted:

Why would devs ever need local admin? Shouldn't it just be write code -> push to git -> use jenkins/ansible/whatever pipeline to deploy a VM to test whatever?

They don't. It's a shortcut, a crutch. Doing things right means they do not need local admin, but most devs are lazy and smug and demanding little princesses.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




The Fool posted:

It’s not just local admin, I had to talk down a whole team from trying to make their applications keyvault readable by other teams because they were too lazy to setup apim

oh my god

Vargatron
Apr 19, 2008

MRAZZLE DAZZLE


Hughmoris posted:

robbed paul?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

MustardFacial
Jun 20, 2011

Fucker in charge of you fucking fucks



Defenestrategy posted:

Why would devs ever need local admin? Shouldn't it just be write code -> push to git -> use jenkins/ansible/whatever pipeline to deploy a VM to test whatever?

Nobody needs local admin for anything. It's only use in a modern, well designed network/infrastructure is as a last ditch effort for when you need system level access and cannot get it though SSO/AD/your IAM of choice. Basically, if the machine is air gapped and cannot communicate or authenticate with anything and this is the last thing you try before nuking it and restoring a backup.

ijyt
Apr 10, 2012

BaseballPCHiker posted:

Dont sweat it, IT is a second career for a ton of folks out there. You're starting off just how I did. A computer janitor that wants to do more and has the interest so you get to touch more and more stuff. Keep it up, find an area you like, and keep working at it.

Thank you, this is really nice to hear!

lament.cfg
Dec 28, 2006

we have such posts
to show you




Technical details of this argument aside lmao that dude thinks pay rate and knowledgeability are correlated at all

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

Recruiter pings me about an opportunity. Pay scale is 60k-120k.

What?

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

lament.cfg posted:

Technical details of this argument aside lmao that dude thinks pay rate and knowledgeability are correlated at all

I mean not that the rest of the argument wasn’t also along these lines, but it was a peak “stop trying to help ahhhh” moment

My pay rate has nothing to do with my technical skills. It has everything to do with my ability to lie to, charm, and manipulate many people at once in interviews and during negotiations. It’s a confidence trick! if anything, having high pay is closer to the inverse of worthiness. It’s hardly a reliable indicator of human value, much less correctness on the merits of a debate argument.

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 21, 2022

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020



GreenNight posted:

Recruiter pings me about an opportunity. Pay scale is 60k-120k.

What?

Pay scale could be/is usually dependent on location and experience, even for the same role. Especially with more mandatory pay listing laws, companies are posting wide ranges because it's technically correct.

For our mid level roles at my megacorp, that range is about right. We are national though so we have folks in Idaho and Bay Area.

If you want to be aggressive with asking for a range (not always the best move negotiation wise, per our negotiation thread) you can probably ask the recruiter to get a narrower band from the client with your experience in mind.

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

I basically tell recruiters I make (current salary + 20%) and they need to make sure their potential offer is extremely competitive for me to leave a job I've had for 19 years.

cage-free egghead
Mar 8, 2004

GreenNight posted:

I basically tell recruiters I make (current salary + 20%) and they need to make sure their potential offer is extremely competitive for me to leave a job I've had for 19 years.

Based on everything I've read from threads like this one and on sysadmin subreddits, your best bet for making more money is by job hopping. Obviously the pay isn't the end all but 19 years is a long time to be at one place, especially for IT.

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

cage-free egghead posted:

Based on everything I've read from threads like this one and on sysadmin subreddits, your best bet for making more money is by job hopping. Obviously the pay isn't the end all but 19 years is a long time to be at one place, especially for IT.

100% man. I've been looking, trust me. For me it's not always about the money. I do a solid 40-45 hrs now and I'm not interesting in 50-60 hr weeks for extra cash.

I have a recruiter call tonight representing Sony, so who knows.

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020



GreenNight posted:

I basically tell recruiters I make (current salary + 20%) and they need to make sure their potential offer is extremely competitive for me to leave a job I've had for 19 years.

The posts I've read about this strongly discourage lying about your current salary because recruiters / HR can easily confirm it, but I have no idea what the real answer is.

Good luck on your call!

Sickening
Jul 16, 2007

Black summer was the best summer.

Inner Light posted:

The posts I've read about this strongly discourage lying about your current salary because recruiters / HR can easily confirm it, but I have no idea what the real answer is.

Good luck on your call!

This is advise is based in the US because no, they cannot easily confirm it.

I heavily encourage lying in interviews especially if lying gets you more compensation.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams
As a public employee, my salary is public data! Though I'm not sure anybody has bothered to data request my University in years to publish salary data, and I doubt a recruiter is gonna do a data request to find that out, so in practice not sure how "public" my salary actually is.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




FISHMANPET posted:

As a public employee, my salary is public data! Though I'm not sure anybody has bothered to data request my University in years to publish salary data, and I doubt a recruiter is gonna do a data request to find that out, so in practice not sure how "public" my salary actually is.

Same. Any public employee making over 75k here gets their compensation posted on the internet with their name and role. Lying about that would be impossible.

MustardFacial
Jun 20, 2011

Fucker in charge of you fucking fucks



Lmao I got a company blast email today about a Diversity & Inclusion Working Group being formed.

Everyone in the working group is white :thunk:

Well done everyone.

[edit]I really want to say something, but I also don't want to be put in a position where I have to be involved in this working group

MustardFacial fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jan 21, 2022

freeasinbeer
Mar 26, 2015

by Fluffdaddy

Sickening posted:

This is advise is based in the US because no, they cannot easily confirm it.

I heavily encourage lying in interviews especially if lying gets you more compensation.

This has some caveats:


https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753

freeasinbeer
Mar 26, 2015

by Fluffdaddy

The Iron Rose posted:

I mean not that the rest of the argument wasn’t also along these lines, but it was a peak “stop trying to help ahhhh” moment

My pay rate has nothing to do with my technical skills. It has everything to do with my ability to lie to, charm, and manipulate many people at once in interviews and during negotiations. It’s a confidence trick! if anything, having high pay is closer to the inverse of worthiness. It’s hardly a reliable indicator of human value, much less correctness on the merits of a debate argument.

One of the threads most enduring themes is :yotj:, to pretend that compensation is unrelated to the contents of this thread, and movements in tech seems weird to me, but that’s just me.

Being a reasonable person has a lot of upside, and helps 💯, the point I was attempting to make, is that wanting to question some of the orthodoxy around “best practices” and understanding the trade offs is a great way to set yourself up for a great paying job.

:shrug:

Dick Trauma
Nov 30, 2007

God damn it, you've got to be kind.
I lied about my salary to my recruiter, asked for $20k above that and was offered $25k more than the inflated number. :stonklol:

GreenNight
Feb 19, 2006
Turning the light on the darkest places, you and I know we got to face this now. We got to face this now.

I'm not hard up for leaving my job. I need to be convinced to leave so I'm not worried about lying. Grass isn't always greener.

George H.W. Cunt
Oct 6, 2010





Lie often, lie confidently

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

freeasinbeer posted:

One of the threads most enduring themes is :yotj:, to pretend that compensation is unrelated to the contents of this thread, and movements in tech seems weird to me, but that’s just me.

Being a reasonable person has a lot of upside, and helps 💯, the point I was attempting to make, is that wanting to question some of the orthodoxy around “best practices” and understanding the trade offs is a great way to set yourself up for a great paying job.

:shrug:

I mostly agree with this, and I think the inability of teams to see the bigger picture wrt organizational requirements is a limiting factor that contributes to an ineffective team. I see some of that in the last page.

But there’s a reason why my arguments for local admin being acceptable in some circumstances didn’t garner nearly the same reaction yours did, and it’s I think largely due to approach. A bit more diplomacy, a bit more sympathy for the other position, a little less absolutism, and you can be far more convincing than as an ardent partisan. Same goes for workplace dramas and politicking too.

But then again, tis an internet debate. Yolo flame wars 5ever

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Jan 22, 2022

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

MustardFacial posted:

Lmao I got a company blast email today about a Diversity & Inclusion Working Group being formed.

Everyone in the working group is white :thunk:

Well done everyone.

Weird. Usually, it's all minorities.

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020




I don't follow this ycombinator news forum type thing (familiar with what ycombinator is generally) but it seems very active, almost as active as some of the popular subreddits. Would you recommend following the site? Not sure how you found this post originally, was just curious about it.

Some interesting points of view in the comments that seem well above board what you usually find on Reddit and more what I'm used to from communities like our fine one here.

e: The interface is real hard to read though.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




You can claim you're a reasonable person, you're still not getting local admin.

freeasinbeer
Mar 26, 2015

by Fluffdaddy

Inner Light posted:

I don't follow this ycombinator news forum type thing (familiar with what ycombinator is generally) but it seems very active, almost as active as some of the popular subreddits. Would you recommend following the site? Not sure how you found this post originally, was just curious about it.

Some interesting points of view in the comments that seem well above board what you usually find on Reddit and more what I'm used to from communities like our fine one here.

There are very many memes about it; and it can be a bit too tied to devs chasing shiny things, but I like it.

Lots of nifty articles and discussions.


Although the all time classic is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Inner Light posted:

I don't follow this ycombinator news forum type thing (familiar with what ycombinator is generally) but it seems very active, almost as active as some of the popular subreddits. Would you recommend following the site? Not sure how you found this post originally, was just curious about it.

Some interesting points of view in the comments that seem well above board what you usually find on Reddit and more what I'm used to from communities like our fine one here.

e: The interface is real hard to read though.

I wouldn’t worry about hn too much

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020




"dhouston", wow lol. I had no idea HN went back that far, that's nuts. Like seeing a post from "mzuckerberg" back in the day. Thanks for linking.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply