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stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

NippleFloss posted:

There are a lot of older sysadmins. If you get tired of that, quite a lot of the SEs, account managers, and professional services dudes at VARs and vendors are in their 40s or 50s. There are plenty technical jobs out there for people folks in that age range, and as an added bonus a lot of them get you out of operations.

I can vouch for this. I do professional services work at a consulting shop, and at 36 I'm definitely at the younger end of my team's distribution. These are a few other guys around my age, but most of them are at least 10 years older than me.

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stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
I don't really have a commute at all, but I do like listening to the Radiolab podcast. They have their regular episodes plus a lot of shorter online-only stories.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
It's not too late to negotiate the terms. Just give them a counteroffer with some higher salary that you'd like. They may want to meet in the middle somewhere, but even then you still end up ahead. You have literally nothing to lose--if they retract your offer because you want to negotiate (and assuming you're not a prick about it) then that's probably not a place you want to work anyway.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
I too have just been offered a job. About a 9% increase to base pay plus profit sharing, 401(k) matching, and fully funded health insurance for me with just over 50% for my wife. I'm still waiting to hear specifics on some important things like vacation time and FSA availability and other fringe benefits like that, but I'm very much inclined to accept.

I need to convince my wife that it's a good idea though. She doesn't like change and is very risk averse, and I would be moving from a very large company where I've been for about three years to a much much smaller one. They say a majority of new companies fail, so there's a very real possibility that they could fold if things don't go right. I've been talking with these folks on and off for a while now, and last time I brought it up in March or so, we both agreed that it was probably not a good idea to change jobs with us floating two mortgages. We've since sold our old house though, so I'm hoping she'll agree that we're in a good enough position right now to take a chance on this.

I'm pretty sure I've got enough cachet with my current management that I could come back if things go south, but it's hard to say how that might change if I actually give notice. Anyone have any experience in leaving a job and then coming back (or trying to) when the new opportunity didn't work out for whatever reason?

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
Yeah I'm definitely not just thinking a>b therefore accept offer. I got hired by a small consulting shop about three years ago, then about one year ago we were bought out by HugeCorp. I'm not unhappy per se, but I much prefer working for a small company than an enormous one. The bureaucracy related to writing for a large company has become more and more intrusive in my day to day life, and I would like to get away from that. One of the guys that started this new company was one of my colleagues before the acquisition, and another is a guy I met as a result of working there, though he was with a different company. They're both very much on the ball and I think I could work well alongside them.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

For anyone who's interested, I decided to accept their offer provided they come up on the base salary a little bit. He says he'll get back to me this afternoon, so hopefully they'll decide I'm worth it.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Sepist posted:

Did you tell him you'll accept it if they come up? I have been burned by saying it that way. They may come back and say no can do (I have had this happen and later my new boss told me he would have added 30k to my salary if I had pushed it). If they come back like that and you're willing to walk away, tell him you've decided not to accept the offer if they aren't willing to work on that number.

I don't feel like I phrased it as an ultimatum, just that I felt my experience and qualifications merited a little more money. I know they want me pretty bad so I'm sure they can come up with something. I expect they'll at least go halfway, which would be fine by me.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
And they accepted my counteroffer at the full amount! :yotj:

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

JHVH-1 posted:

(plus future bonuses and raises are based on what you make not what you could have made)

This alone is an excellent reason for asking for more pay. To reiterate something I put together in the old poo poo that pisses you off thread a few years ago:

quote:

For the sake of argument, let's say your initial offer is $70000. If you get a 5% raise after one year, and another 5% raise after another year, you're looking at $77175. If you negotiate just $5000 more to start and get the same percentage increases, your first raise puts you at $78750. You're making more after one year than you would be after two under the initial offer.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

So what you're saying is that 5% of a big number is more than 5% of a little number.
:psylon: math is hard

Did you skip the last sentence?

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
It's unlikely that this other place is going to give you anything close to a fair offer. They've already marked you as a sucker, and that doesn't really wash off. I would tell them no thanks and move on. If you haven't already, read this: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

You're never see anything beyond your base salary.

That's a bit harsh. He certainly shouldn't expect it, but at least a partial payout is possible. It depends entirely on the finances of the company, and more importantly how willing they'll be to share the wealth.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Tab8715 posted:

What is pre or posts sales anyhow?

Pre-sales is where you come in pre-agreement and say "hey look at all the cool poo poo we can do for you give us moneys." The hours you put in are at risk (i.e. you might not get any money from them ever) and the end result is a limited functionality proof-of-concept. Post-sales is the actual real deal project where they're paying you to do something. Kind of the same concept as drug dealers giving you a little taste for free to get you hooked.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

dogstile posted:

I'm fairly sure i'm safe, i've recently been moved the the team that is pushing our new product, which is the product the company that bought us wants to expand. They want to open up US offices and spread our product over there too. I'm just wondering if any of the UK guys have noticed any massive culture changes with foreign buyouts, anything I should be worried about?

My old company was bought out a little over a year ago (both companies were US based so no foreign aspect to this one). Ours went pretty smoothly, but there's a period of adjustment no matter what, and depending on the relative sizes of the companies and their organizational cultures there can be an us vs. them mentality for some time to come. My honest advice is to get your resume in order, because even if you want to stick around for a while, eventually something will give and make you want to get out of Dodge. Having everything in order in advance can make that go a lot smoother. Then again, I know you're already trying to do that, so I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know.


NippleFloss posted:

If it's a pure pre-sales role it's almost always commission based in my experience.

I've always worked post-sales personally, but I know that our pre-sales guys all get paid base with no commission. This is the actual engineers, mind--the sales rep himself most definitely works on commission.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
That's just the federal law too. states can set that bar higher, just not lower.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Tab8715 posted:

And take showers on a regular basis with soap...

Man I better start writing some of this poo poo down.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
Sorry to rehash the headset chat, but can anyone recommend a bluetooth headset with microphone? I've used a wired Logitech headset in the past that works well enough, but the wires consistently wear out at the plug end in pretty short order, and I've never been able to find an adapter that will let me use the microphone on my phone as well as the speakers. LG has something called the Tone Pro which uses that goofy horsecollar thing, but it seems to be well reviewed. Both ears is a must since I'd like to use it for regular old headphones as well.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
What's wrong with join.me? I've only used it a few times, but it seemed OK to me.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
A lazy recruiter that wants you to do their job for them?? :monocle:

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
You are literally retarded.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
I hope someday you realize what your senior director said wasn't a compliment.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
And I definitely fart a lot.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Punc posted:

I'm hoping they'll just go like "here's a lot of money", so that I just have to say yes again.

Sounds like it's too late, but in future you should always counter with a higher salary (or some other non-salary form of compensation). As long as your're not a dick about it it's very unlikely they'll retract the initial offer, and there's an excellent chance they'll at least meet you halfway. And a company that does retract that offer is probably not a place you'd want to work anyway.


Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

I'd take it because it's a start in an IT career and not a retail dead end.

Agreed, you'll get some hands-on experience both with the tech and with dealing with users. I imagine you'd also get a complimentary membership to (if it's anything like my local Y) a pretty decent health club!

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

NZAmoeba posted:

There are varying levels of it. I never went to a user group, but I would never have gotten the awesome job I have now if not for the fact that I happened to accept a flatmate applicant who happened to work for this start up I'd never heard of.

Heck just participating in these threads has gotten goons employed.

Networking is extremely important. It was something that was impressed upon us by the exceptionally hands-on dean of engineering at my school first semester freshman year, and is probably one of the most important things I learned in college. Case in point--I did three years in the NOAA Corps after college, which is an obscure and very small branch of uniformed service in the US. When I went back into the private sector, the hiring manager of my very first job had also been in the corps, and while I'd like to believe I got the job on my own merits, that connection probably got me the interview. The skills and technologies I learned in that job have basically been the foundation of my career to this date. Don't expect your contacts to get you something you don't deserve, but absolutely leverage them if it helps you get a foot in the door.


DrBouvenstein posted:

How do your employers handle on-call pay? Because I get the feeling we get shafted...

I haven't had to do on-call since that job I mentioned above, but back then we got regular time plus a pittance per hour of overtime, which naturally included on-call. We were salaried so 1.5x wasn't a requirement. If I got a call in the middle of the night on my week, I'd bill at least an hour for it, even if I was able to resolve it in just a few minutes. I have no idea what anyone else on my team did, but I never got any flack for it. It does sound like you're getting a poo poo deal, but whether or not you can actually do anything about it depends a lot on what local laws apply and how your position is classified.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

mayodreams posted:

I patched all 14 of my DC's tonight because gently caress rebuilding 2 different directories that are already a disaster.

Some fires are best left burning...

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

FISHMANPET posted:

Jesus that just sunk in I'm being interviewed by 4 people. TIME TO PANIC.

All at once, or in multiple sessions?

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

FISHMANPET posted:

All at once.

Yeah that is pretty intimidating, I don't think I've ever had more than two people on the other side of the table.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

FISHMANPET posted:

Interview in 1 hour, bundle of nerves, etc etc.

How did it go?

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
Just look at how dumb you are.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

I'm the guy in the lower left.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Chickenwalker posted:

I'm working as a catch-all post-production support guy. We maintain all the edits, media servers, A/V equipment, client PCs and keep the network going. I work 60 hours a week and get paid less than $40k a year. How badly am I being screwed?

:a2m:

Guess which one is you. Hint: it's the one on the left.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Colonial Air Force posted:

Thank you.

Just in time for Christmas!

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but didn't something similar happen to you a few Christmases ago?

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
A little late to the WFH chat. I've got a draft post on my phone, but I kept getting interrupted/distracted yesterday.

I've been working from home full time for a little over three years doing professional services work for consulting shops of various sizes. It can be difficult to maintain a good work-home balance. For the first couple years I rented some desk space at a local small business so I could get out of the house once in a while, and I actually was able to make reimbursement of that a part of my compensation package. My small company was gobbled up by a much larger one, and they were not willing to continue that deal. We fortunately moved to a larger house about six months after that, and I now have some dedicated office space at home instead of having to multipurpose the bedroom. It is something that has worked very well for me, but it is certainly not for everyone.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

BlueBlazer posted:

I'm going through this right now, I'm at the stage where I have a decent client book and another midsized techshop is talking about taking me in. How did your pay shift when that happened?

2 years into my own contract work and not doing badly but some stability and back-up sure sounds tempting.

My salary didn't change at all, though I don't think it went up any between the time we got acquired and the time I left. Aside from having to deal with the added corporate bureaucracy bullshit my day to day routine changed very very little.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

dogstile posted:

And here I am, peeking over my monitor, scowling and wondering what unholy ritual you did to get those jobs.

(You probably studied harder than I did)

I can only speak for myself, but I think for me it's been about 5% being pretty smart, about 10% personal networking and a solid 85% pure loving luck.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
UPS came by the house earlier today with a package for me. There was a label saying it required a signature because it contained alcohol, and I was concerned that I'd mistakenly had a bottle of wine sent here instead of to my parents' house.

What should I find inside, but what appears to be a superb bottle of Scotch from my boss, with a note thanking me for my hard work? Even I have trouble justifying hitting the sauce this early, but I will certainly give a trip report later tonight!

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

stubblyhead posted:

What should I find inside, but what appears to be a superb bottle of Scotch from my boss, with a note thanking me for my hard work? Even I have trouble justifying hitting the sauce this early, but I will certainly give a trip report later tonight!

A++ would drink again. :angel:

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

DrAlexanderTobacco posted:

I believe it was scotch

Yes, specifically Laphroaig 25 Cask Strength. Perfectly sublime.

stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe
Yeah, I guess I am pretty awesome. :c00l:

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stubblyhead
Sep 13, 2007

That is treason, Johnny!

Fun Shoe

Docjowles posted:

"Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems." - jwz

Regexes are pretty confusing when you first start with them, but definitely worth learning if you write any amount of script or code that parses text. They're just ridiculously powerful.

Heck, you don't even have to write code to run into use cases. Most nontrivial Apache configs will have them embedded in rewrite rules or ACLs as one example off the top of my head.

Notepad++ can use them to search/replace in files too. No lie, they're probably top five in the list of things you don't know but probably ought to learn.

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